Pot and Its Impact on BB IQ?

  • OK, I need a diversion from recruiting. And came upon this article about pot. Those who say “pot” doesn’t effect people’s behavior or brain, I beg to differ. During the Opium War, Brits kicked China’s butt whose citizens were too stoned to defend themselves against the foreign intruders (per Brit Military). A civilization went to pots because of pot, now I’m wondering how many of our players go to practice or games stoned? How would pot or drugs effect their learning curve or BB IQ? Didn’t give much thought, but seeing Nadir’s eyes half closed during some games, wondered what was wrong with him. Was he stoned? Heard players of all fields smoke pot or drugs to ease the pain from their bruised-up bodies. I wonder if this pot is a bigger thing than the shoecos industry complex?

    "When workers at his Colorado business went to pot, Mark Brawner said it was enough for him to roll out of the Rockies and head for South Carolina. Brawner, who ran Little Spider Creations out of an old Denver warehouse for years until this month, told KUSA-TV Thursday he moved because pot was hurting his company. He said employees started to come to work stoned after the state legalized the drug for recreational use in 2012.

    “The main reason we pulled out was because of marijuana,” Brawner said. “Marijuana got into our industry. Half the sculptors will come in high. As soon as we’d catch it, they’d be let go. We went through 25 sculptors. Only five of (our sculptors) either were quality or would show up unimpaired.”

    But Brawner said his comments got “twisted out of proportion,” although he did not deny relocating to the Myrtle Beach area, where smoking pot is still illegal. “They had an agenda. They got what they wanted and not what they heard,” he said. A call to KUSA news director Christy Moreno was not immediately returned. Little Spider has built Halloween-like props for Six Flags amusement parks, the Dollywood Theme Park in Tennessee, and other haunted house entertainment venues.

    The company’s a new home is a spacious facility in North Myrtle Beach, S.C. The local Chamber of Commerce lured Brawner to move with a $25,000 grant. In exchange Brawner pledged to create 35 jobs and to make a $2.65 million investment in his business. In Colorado, Little Spider employed 47 sculptors, artists and animators.

    The Myrtle Beach Sun News reported that back in Colorado, Brawner had been dealing with a “nasty” local government regulator and too many stoned workers. Those problems made his wife’s entreaties to move more appealing. Now Brawner would like to take back remarks he made to KUSA like this one:

    “A painter doesn’t do production as quick as we want. If you build a house you can build a house to the plans. When we’re asking you to sculpt a giant dinosaur, and it has to have personality and stuff, when you’re high you can’t see it. Your whole body says its good enough, when it’s not. The quality suffers.”

    A Colorado business group told the station Little Spider’s departure is the first they heard of a company leaving the state because of legalized marijuana. Brawner just wanted his marijuana remarks to go puff. He declined to say how his comments, which were audio-taped, could have been misconstrued. “I don’t have anything more to say, not even to make things right,” he said.

    Colorado legalized pot in 2013, and the first marijuana shops opened at the beginning of 2014. Washington and Alaska subsequently legalized the drug, and similar measures have been proposed in other states."


  • @HawksWin You do know that marijuana is not the same as opium, don’t you? You are obviously a student of Chinese history so you must know that the opium war was fought because the English wanted to sell opium to the Chinese and they did not want it.

    Maybe you should try gardening. Don’t chop off your foot with a hoe.

  • @sfbahawk - well thanks for your comment. Correct, that’s what the Opium War was about where the Brits took guns to China and forced them to buy Opium for the almighty Pounds. Are you telling me Pot vs Opium is different? So how is it that Potheads are so much more effective than Opiumheads? You obviously think there are difference, but I along with this Colorado businessman doesn’t want Potheads as employees. Do you have medical expertise in this field to speak to it? Because there are old & new studies saying yes pot is not good for the human race. Sorry, can’t tend to gardening as I have these so-called black thumbs! Perhaps your ability to play sports or perform brain surgery won’t be effected by pot, but don’t you worry because I won’t be asking for your services. p.s. I think you missed the whole point - pot and how its effecting our players’ ability to learn Self’s tactics & strategies within months, not years. Re-read it and comment, don’t get stuck on Chinese history, ok? 🙂

  • @HawksWin Yeah, from my personal perspective, as well as my medical perspective, Im pretty conservative on this issue. Like we need more impaired drivers out there (poor judgement folks are always going to be out there, regardless of what laws about under-the-influence are on the books).

    May whatever god help the person who wrecks into me or my family if they were high or drunk. Intoxication would then be the least of their problems.

    I got an idea: let’s let the entire population of Mexico, Guatemala, etc, into the USA, open borders, yeah, that’s it…And let’s let people get as drunk and high as they want…and lets raise taxes to the 50% level to pay for it all, especially big business, because they got “deep” pockets, or those that earn over $250k “because they earn enough and need to pay more than their fair share”. (what is ‘fair’?)

    It’s not a preposterous proposition, as the money for all the caretaking of all the above must come from somewhere, right?

    Oh, but don’t forget all the principles of business…because if costs keep rising…how ironic would it be that all the immigrants who come over for better jobs, find that many US corporations have…moved overseas (lower costs). And I feel qualified to speak out on these issues, being the son of immigrant parents, as well as in the medical field. I work in the ER setting, and I haven’t heard anybody’s explanation justify the carnage I have seen caused by impaired drivers. And “free” healthcare for people that are illegal? That’s a bottomless pit, people, and Im seeing that even in smalltown KS. Year after year after year…

    What makes a nation great? What keeps a nation great? ‘We The People’ need to decide…choices, choices. Where is this nation headed??? Good luck to y’all!

    Remember those old commercials from the 80s showing a native American shedding a tear about all the pollution? Im about as patriotic as one could be, passing on the USAF Academy for a chance to go to KU, which worked out…but I see where we are headed. You don’t get back eroded values. Its the most sinister of slippery slopes. I watch with utter cynicism just how effin wrong the flower children/Woodstock generation had it, and its reflected in a generation of laws. After all, they were only “rebelling” against their parents’ generation (ya know, the ones with insane work ethics, same generation that won WW2).

    So, let me sarcastically applaud those types of “progressives” (laughter), is that your idea of change? Its not like marijuana hasn’t been studied for decades, but we want to ignore the data.

    Go, go ahead and escape from reality…yeah, that’s it. Take a tote, but don’t tote a bag full of books. Take the easy route. It’s whatcha made of now…(soft). I used to say I’d die for my country. I cannot say that I would now. The biggest danger isn’t from ISIS or whatever they’re talking about on fox news…it’s from within: What’s in your brain? (what is your path to success)

  • @ralster WOW, thanks for insightful and wonderful commentary. I too am of immigrant parents, and family members in the medical field. Totally agree with you that this Woodstock generation has managed to take down this great nation, and it merely took 40 years. Today, we have entitled, overly sexualized, ignorant, indifferent who want to be managed & cared for by their government without knowing “there’s no such thing as free lunch” - will cost their free will. Men’s Dignity gone, their Character lost, at last, their civilization tanks.

    An interesting article that is symptomatic of a well intended policy to help, but so damn poorly executed. Ignoring human nature gets us nowhere but downhill - why work for something when can be taken for free? http://nypost.com/2015/04/24/mindy-kalings-brother-illustrates-flaws-of-affirmative-action/

  • Hmm. Thought this was a “KU sports site.” Now it’s bash marijuana and progressives/liberals? I dare say we could all find fault with drugs, alcohol, religion and politics no matter where you stand on such matters, and I suggest we save that for “other” sites.

    Besides, I’m not in the mood to take you on, and show you the fault in your eyes. And I could.

    Here, we’re ALL Jayhawks, right?!

  • @hawkmoon2020 Go for it.

  • I respect your basketball opinions and commentary, HEM. But as I said, I’m not going for it on this site. Let’s stick with BB. Entertaining enough for us to “discuss” and “debate” KU BB.

  • Talking about drugs is addictive.

    –jaybate 1.0

  • So is being a Jayhawk. LOL

  • I would doubt that cannibis is a problem with a CBB Players game IQ.

  • “The Illegal drug trade is the only means to maintain the solvency of an empire and even then, it only works for a century or so.”

    –jaybaticus, Roman papyrus rat that posted scrolls regularly about sports at the Coliseum and Circus Maximus, circa 87-27 BCE

  • @jaybate-1.0 PHOF

    Cannibus, Minimus, or was that Maximus? I forget.

    Okay, I will fess up. I don’t smoke and was against it even as a pup simply because it was against the law.

    I drink, but don’t drink and drive-and don’t drive and text which is becoming a huge problem. I see it every day on the roads in Houston.

    I did drink and drive in my 20’s and though I never had a wreck or get pulled over I was an idiot for doing it and yes, it was against the law as well. Back in the 80’s our culture was pretty relaxed about that-much too relaxed

  • @hawkmoon2020 Speak your mind, man…my experiences and perspective are not those of everyone else’s, nor does it make mine the “correct” view either. People can really only comment on what their experiences are, so I’ve had years (decades) to form my view. Actually, that is part of my whole point: we all have choices to make within ourselves–that’s where it all begins.

    Agree with @HighEliteMajor : share your views. We are all Jayhawks, but we may not all agree on every topic, and that’s OK–we have plenty of diversity of opinion on recruiting and playstyle, and lively debates about it. Even if I don’t agree with everyone’s take, & a response seems like a rebuttal, I would absolutely say their post made me think, which is a great thing.

    Hmm, never used the word liberals, nor am I some Rush Limbaugh conservative (no way, too narrow minded). I’m very “liberal” when it comes to education at all levels, and the funding for such. Dad is a college professor, although not quite the cardigan/Subaru-driving-lifestyle type, but he always votes education and environment. Im not as hawkish on foreign policy as I used to be. Mission-creep is something politicians SUCK at controlling. On the other hand I’m pretty conservative on some things. And, prolife vs prochoice is a debate I’m in the middle on. (So overall, I’m hard to categorize or pigeon-hole).

    One thing I’ll say in general, is that politics sure is polarized and typecast anymore. Look, I work in several towns in rural KS, as well as in Wichita, and people you know well often talk about news and headlines. We only really talk with those who are like minded. Or occasionally anonymously, like on here.

    SO, I think @HawksWin wanted to start a non-basketball thread, as discussing pot and how it affects motivation and IQ is well known (bball or otherwise)…where else would such a discussion lead?. I like to cut to the chase…(but my view is simply my view, not for everybody). I’m OK putting it out there, to foster discussion: People agree or disagree. My experience isn’t the same as everyone elses.

    Again, main point is personal choices.

    As a funny aside, it was speculated about if guys like Rush or Chalmers were potheads…who knows about Brady, I heard that too. We all know about Beasley, and a whole subset of NFL guys. Now depending on your views on the subject, those NFL guys are doing a “cultural” thing…OR they are “hiding” behind a cultural “thing”. What’s your view? Anyone?

    (Again, no offense to anyone, and if we are to have such a discussion, we shouldn’t beat up each other over why we believe what we do–everyone’s experiences may differ)…And yes, Im guilty of stereotyping a bit about the 60s generation…And finally, we should all remember, regardless of our fields of study, that KU is a huge, secular institution, and Jayhawk nation can be quite diverse, even when it comes to basketball beliefs–that’s the fun of this site, actually: to be made to think outside our own box! Maybe I can do that for others?)

  • @ralster

    My beliefs are pretty close to yours and have evolved over the years. I am still fiscally conservative but more of a moderate in social issues, and when it comes to government affairs, I am getting more disillusioned with both parties and starting to lean Libertarian. I hate all the government intrusion in our private lives, unfortunately most Americans, even well educated professionals, don’t have a clue of the level and extent of this intrusion…if they did we would have another revolution.

  • Good and honest posts. Sometimes you have to agree to disagree. As far as Pot and Its Impact on BB IQ - I guess that depends on your DNA and how much you partake.

    Sure, many “potheads” have ruined their lives. But many “420 friendlies” have become Managers, CEO’s, Teachers, Laborers, Policemen & Firefighters, and the like. And let’s not forget those who play professional sports. IQ’s must not be that bad if they achieve that level.

    I don’t care if players smoke pot. I just care how they take care of business on and off the court.

  • @HawksWin The wikipedia definition of opium: “Opium (poppy tears, lachryma papaveris) is the dried latex obtained from the opium poppy (Papaver somniferum). Opium latex contains approximately 12% of the analgesic alkaloid morphine, which is processed chemically to produce heroin and other synthetic opioids for medicinal use and for the illegal drug trade. The latex also contains the closely related opiates codeine and thebaine and non-analgesic alkaloids such as papaverine and noscapine. The traditional, labor-intensive method of obtaining the latex is to scratch (“score”) the immature seed pods (fruits) by hand; the latex leaks out and dries to a sticky yellowish residue that is later scraped off, and dehydrated. The word “meconium” (derived from the Greek for “opium-like”, but now used to refer to infant stools) historically referred to related, weaker preparations made from other parts of the opium poppy or different species of poppies.”

    Wikipedia definition of cannabis: “Cannabis, commonly known as marijuana and by numerous other names is a preparation of the Cannabis plant intended for use as a psychoactive drug and as medicine. Pharmacologically, the principal psychoactive constituent of cannabis is tetrahydrocannabinol (THC); it is one of 483 known compounds in the plant, including at least 84 other cannabinoids, such as cannabidiol (CBD), cannabinol (CBN), tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV) and cannabigerol (CBG).”

    Can you see any difference between these definitions? If you cannot, I would suggest that you sue whomever supposedly educated you. I have no desire to get into an argument about the pros or cons of cannabis. What I also have no desire to do is have people who obviously know nothing about a topic expound as if they do. Do you have any medical expertise?

    I would also suggest that you spend some time improving your obviously poor grasp of grammar.

    Why on god’s green earth do you think that pot is affecting players ability to learn Self’s tactics and strategies? Other than a bleary picture of Tharpe, why would you imply this?

  • @sfbahawk Thanks for posting the Wiki defn on Opium vs Pot. You and I speak a diff lingo, so let’s stop here, and stick to KUBB. Oh and this is for your enlightenment only. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3053349/Colorado-mom-gave-pot-brownie-son-jumped-window-police.html

  • Come to my classroom of HS freshmen and I’ll expose the supposed non harmful effects of pot. Many of my kids smoke, and while there are also other factors contributing to their being years behind academically, pot and it’s impact on the cities is clearly demonstrable. See you in E507 Monday morning at 7:10!

  • @HawksWin You know opium and marijuana aren’t the same thing, right? And drugs weren’t why the British won the Opium Wars.

  • @HawksWin

    I recently heard someone throw out an old term I have not heard since the '70s… “the Colorado Acapulco Golden Buffaloes”… Boulder has been known as a major party town probably my whole life. I wonder if they raised it a notch since the State gave local municipalities the right to sell and possess?

    Imagine if Colorado was still in the B12? I bet we always had a stricter team curfew policy in Boulder (and maybe Austin) then other places in the B12. What would it be like today? Players can step in a legal shop and buy without fear of legal problems. But what about school and team policies? I wonder if teams think about it and update their drug policies these days before wandering in the State of Colorado for a game?

    And what about the schools in Colorado… Can Colorado athletes lose their scholarships over marijuana use from within their borders?

    I spent 20 years of my adult life in a society where pot was legally tolerated and sold openly in coffeeshops. From a societal point of view, after the “buzz” wears off on the novelty (and profits drop off on the black market) use drops below other societies where it is illegal. It does seem like more people use it there because it is visible in public (whereas it is not so visible in societies where it is illegal). Pot is non-toxic. No one has ever OD’d from smoking or eating pot or pot products. There are studies that suggest different impacts on the body over time, none are anywhere close to the toxic effects of alcohol. But there are typical effects from continued use that can be detrimental to one’s life. A typical effect is a reduction of motivation in areas relating to productivity. Some users have issues with memory loss and the inability to organize things mentally.

    From a recreational perspective if someone wants to criticize marijuana use then they can do so because it tends to slow down productivity and while high, opens up risks in operating motor vehicles, boats, and everything else that can become an instrument of death and pain if not used responsibly. That will remain the argument for those on that side. There really isn’t an argument when comparing it as a recreational substance versus alcohol. Alcohol has all the same negatives plus many more. First, it is a toxic substance that brings people to a numb state only through a process of poisoning. Many thousands of people die every year from the physical effects of alcohol. People literally drink themselves to death. It has a much higher rate of addiction, too. It is also a depressant and often has the effect of creating aggression in people. How many people get in fights from drinking? How many from smoking? Right…

    The real question is; do people have the right to numb out? If we don’t like people using pot we definitely shouldn’t like people using alcohol either.

    Do we restrict it all? None of it?

  • BBQ is AWESOME when you’re high!

  • Really strange thread. We can call this thread “The Ganja Theory”.

  • @KUinLA BBQ is always awesome.

  • Or maybe it’s the alcohol that we legally sell on every street corner in America that’s lowering the IQ. I swear one time I saw Naadir so drunk he posted a picture of himself drunk on Twitter and got kicked out of the best program in D1.

  • @Blown The alcohol comparison is excellent, but demonstrates the flawed logic of the potheads.

    The best argument that potheads have is the comparison to alcohol. But alcohol is one of the scourges of society. It has destroyed millions of lives. It has exacted a tremendous toll.

    Yet, “it’s no worse than alcohol” is what we hear from the moral equivalency crowd. And it’s a relatively valid point on the surface. If this, why not that?

    But of course, that’s how our society has continued to go down the rat hole.

    The only reason alcohol is legal is because it has a much deeper cultural history of legality. In fact, but for the brief period of prohibition, it’s always been legal. It’s the cultural history that makes it different than pot.

    Pot, on the other hand, has really always been illegal. Further, the typical, historical pot crowd fit the stereotype. That didn’t inspire any change in thinking regarding legality.

    What has changed is that our society in general has deteriorated.

    The fact is, our society, our lives, everything else, would be much better without pot or alcohol.

  • @HighEliteMajor

    "Yet, “it’s no worse than alcohol” is what we hear from the moral equivalency crowd. "

    The real crowd for pro-pot says “it is far superior than alcohol”… very different argument. And if you look at the health statistics concerning alcohol use and the devastating impact it has on millions of people, you will understand that from a medical perspective it isn’t even close.

    I’ve had to deal with very close friends, many of them, that have had problems from using alcohol and pot. Some using both. I’ve buried a couple that relied on alcohol. I am convinced there is addiction for both substances, but it is far worse for alcohol. And watching someone destroy his liver is a devastating experience… something you won’t experience with a pothead. Also… diabetes is prevalent with alcoholics, too. Another super killer!

    I’m not advocating anyone to become a pothead.

    “The fact is, our society, our lives, everything else, would be much better without pot or alcohol.”

    That seems like a true statement, because we don’t seem to see a benefit from either substance within our society. But the truth is we don’t know if that would be the case, because alcohol and pot have always been in our society, when they were legal and illegal. These substances can be considered “coping substances”… question is… how does our society “cope” when they don’t have substances to cope with? I doubt we will ever know this answer because it is unlikely these substances will ever vanish from circulation. Heck… even guys in prison score substances…

  • @HighEliteMajor Marijuana was actually made illegal in the US in the early twentieth century.

    Not that it matters. The fact is neither one provides any real benefit to anyone’s life. People who say that there’s nothing wrong with getting high everyday are the same people that point out that people like Bill Gates never went to college, therefore, they don’t need to go to college either.

  • @MoonwalkMafia

    Don’t you think the real question is whether or not it is a benefit to our society if people have something they can turn to when they want to “take the edge off?” Does that outweigh the negative side?

    There are plenty of people out there that use alcohol and pot in a responsible way and we never hear about these people because they don’t attract attention to themselves… they aren’t getting in fights in parking lots, filling our medical system with their liver issues, or just being a “wasteoid” on the couch. What happens when you cut off the relaxation method of millions of productive people? Do they just become more productive? Or do they suddenly let things build up inside and vent? I don’t think mankind is a machine only put on earth to work. It seems like even productive people need or want to “lubricate” themselves while socializing or doing things like watching movies. If that is taken away, do they turn violent?

    Do we always have to bring our culture down to the lowest common denominator?

  • @HighEliteMajor Agree with your points. That has always been my contention…don’t tell me that Pot is no worse than alcohol…we know alcohol is bad for society…tell me what would be good about legalizing the stuff.

  • One issue that is often overlooked is the fact…yes, it is a proven fact…that just about every heavy drug user started with pot until it was not enough and then graduated to the heavier drugs from which there is no way back. Pot is a “gateway” drug. Yes, there are many recreational, occasional users that go no further than pot, but for many, it opens the gates to heavier drugs and that is a real issue. I would be curious to see how the number of heavy drug user will increase over the year in Colorado now that pot is legal.

    I remember an interview (60 Minutes years ago) with a doctor that started with pot and then graduated to cocaine and heroine and got fully addicted…he said… there is no divorce from drugs, only a temporary separation…those words have stuck with me ever since since it is the best explanation of what drug addiction is.

    By the way, the Governor of Colorado. John Hickenlooper is on the record as saying: If I could’ve waved a wand the day after the election, I would’ve reversed the election This was a bad idea.

  • @JayHawkFanToo The biggest drug problem in the country today is the addiction to prescription pain killers. The “best” of the pain killers are opioids. They are also the most dangerous from an addiction standpoint. Opioids are a class of powerful drugs that includes morphine, heroin and brand names such as OxyContin, Vicodin and Percocet. A doctor prescribes OxyContin, as an example, and the patient becomes addicted. People are now turning to heroin because these drugs are very expensive and after a while they cannot pay for the legal variety.

    Now the question is: what does this problem have to do with pot? Aunt Mildred is buying street heroin to feed her addiction originally caused by an automobile accident. The thought of buying pot never occurred to her but there she is. How could this possibly have happened as she never ingested cannabis? Well unfortunately it happens every day to many people.

    Why don’t we stick to basketball which everyone here knows something about?

  • @HawksWin What did you say? Im too baked to understand your logic.

  • @drgnslayr Very good point. I should qualify my statement by saying dependence on either provides no benefit, which is what I was thinking, rather than making it sound like anyone who touches the stuff turns into a monster or a loser.

  • Sorry, a cut and paste:

    The “gateway hypothesis” or theory refers to the idea that one substance — marijuana, in this case — leads users to subsequently use and/or abuse other drugs. If Christie’s point is simply that the use of marijuana tends to precede the use of other drugs, then he is correct — but that’s not the whole story. Though studies of large populations of people have indeed found that those who smoke marijuana are more likely to use other drugs, these studies show a correlation without showing causation — a commonly misunderstood phenomenon in science. In short, just because marijuana smokers might be more likely to later use, say, cocaine, does not imply that using marijuana causes one to use cocaine. A 1999 report from the Institute of Medicine, which is part of the National Academy of Sciences, laid out this issue clearly (see pages 100-101): “In the sense that marijuana use typically precedes rather than follows initiation into the use of other illicit drugs, it is indeed a gateway drug. However, it does not appear to be a gateway drug to the extent that it is the cause or even that it is the most significant predictor of serious drug abuse; that is, care must be taken not to attribute cause to association.”

    Just sayin’.

  • @sfbahawk

    The addiction to illegal drugs is more than 10 times the amount of prescription drugs. Yes it is a problem, a growing problem, a big problem, but the abuse/addiction of/to illegal drugs is one order of magnitude larger. Let’s keep things in perspective.

  • @hawkmoon2020

    Good point. Marijuana doesn’t turn people into heroine addicts. It just so happens that most heroine addicts have tried pot, alcohol, and even water!

    I like the idea of raising tax dollars with it. In the long run, by legalizing it we will end up having fewer users (if you believe what has happened in Europe over the past several decades). Take the big money out of the black market and pot isn’t “pushed” any longer. Plus… the mystique is gone. I had been around it for 20 years and I don’t even notice it.

    I’d rather have the sell of pot benefit road construction than just line a dealer’s pocket. Seems every State (including Kansas) is broke now. That bothers me a lot more than pot.


    Are there 10 times more addicts using illegal drugs than prescription drugs? I would think it is the other way around, but I don’t know those numbers. I just saw a documentary about the drug problems in rural areas and how the doctors out there had started writing pain killer prescriptions too freely and turned a big part of the rural community into opiate addicts. Then the law stepped in and roped the legal sell down and those people then turned to illegal opiates on the street.

    The one fact on all of this stuff is that certain people (whether it be because of genetic reasons or other reasons) have a strong addiction tendency to one or more things and it is something very painful to witness and it costs are society a fortune to try and deal with all whether it be directly and indirectly. Very sad topic.

  • @sfbahawk

    Gee! it just took looking at your own post and links you cited and from your own second link:

    Drug Usage.JPG

    You can see that the illicit drug use (23.9M) plus marijuana use (18,.9M) is considerably larger than the prescription drugs abuse (6.8M).

    Like I said, prescription drugs abuse is a big and growing problem but compared to the other illicit drugs is not nearly as big. BTW, that is the largest number cited I have seen for prescription drug abuse and most other surveys have it in the 2-4 million.

    I am sure we both can find other statistics to support our assertion but in the end, it is irrelevant. Can we just agree to disagree on the numbers and agree that drug abuse of all kinds is a big and growing problem in this country? I, for one, would prefer to get back to talking KU basketball.

  • @JayHawkFanToo Amen to that! I had no idea this posting turned out this way. Simply wanted some thoughts on how pot and other chemical are/could effect our young growing players from learning in today’s much shorter time frame (1-2 years) all the while having to shorten their learning curve when other distractions like alcohol, girls, etc. are enticing them and their time. Think today’s players are under much more stress, and their world more complex compared to earlier decades. Let’s get back to KUBB. Enough info on pots/drugs that my brain is fried.:)

  • One of the most intelligent chat locations I’ve ever seen --a true gift to a KU fan in Montana who never gets to see any games live. So kudos to you all. I don’t disagree with your concerns about bad influences on b-ball, whether it be the AAU, shoe companies, or the failure to teach boys how to teach free throws. But as a former China prof at the U, I’m afraid I have to be a jerk and correct the historical claim. It was called the Opium War and not the “Pot” War for a reason: Opium is of the heroin family, yes? hoplessly addictive. and thus a whole different ball game from any more casual drug. The war was not about opium nor lost because of opium use, but it’s impact was huge. England’s use of opium (the gift that kept on giving) to counter their problems finding any other exports the Chinese wanted from England create tensions that soured relations. No less important, becase so much silver left China to pay for Opium, the tax rate --set in silver–tripled overs some years for millions of peasants who never even heard of opium. Warning: do not use fun facts like this unless everyone in the room is drunk enough to remember… However, I do find reminding myself that “1.3b Chinese don’t care” is helpful when some otherwise devastatingly good 18 year old decides to enroll at Kentucky.

    Again, my sincere thanks for great insights.

  • @HighEliteMajor really not sure how to interpret the post because I wasn’t saying that “hey alcohol is legal, so marijuana should be, too”

    I was simply suggesting that the “Reefer Madness” propaganda is still very present today. Marijuana is treated like the bogeyman, when in fact, there are so many daily behaviors that can be highlighted that demonstrate bad decision making.

  • Is everybody that drinks alcohol a “Drunk” like everyone who consumes Cannabis is a “pothead”?

  • @Blown

    “Is everybody that drinks alcohol a “Drunk” like everyone who consumes Cannabis is a “pothead”?”

    Good point! Lots of good conversation in here. I like keeping it to basketball but I have to admit we needed something in here to keep it going and we were just grinding back and forth on recruiting.

    I think this week we’ll have a lot to talk about again concerning Kansas hoops.

  • I’m certainly no pot head. Although I did try marijuana in my early twenties I had terrible experiences with it, I have never felt the slightest compulsion to try it again. That said, I have never once heard a compelling reason for either the prohibition against its use, nor the demonization and misinformation that seems to surround the topic in some circles.

    If you find the argument that marijuana is “no worse than alcohol” an uninspired moral equivalency (although it isn’t a moral equivalency, but an empirical one), how about we substitute fast food or football? If that seems flippant, may I point out that marijuana is not a chemically addictive substance, so the comparison to fast food addiction or something like pornography addiction is apropos. These substances don’t alter the function or make up of one’s brain in order to cause their addiction. They merely feed the dopamine engine (our natural reward center in the brain). Literally anything that does this can become addictive to a person, and that means literally anything one finds pleasurable.

    Never the less, the fact of the matter is that in a free society, the default position for any activity is always one of permissiveness. We allow people to consume things or participate in activities that have little morally redeeming value and can quite literally kill them because we supposedly value the right of the individual to make an informed and responsible decision, and to the extent that a minority cannot, we tolerate that in order to respect the autonomy of the majority. Were it not for that, any measure of restrictions that today we would find to be draconian at best might seem to be reasonable in the light of preventing harm to ourselves and to society.

    But even if appeals to freedom and personal responsibility don’t persuade you, I would point out that since 1971 when Richard Nixon fired the opening salvo in the war on drugs, we’ve invested over a trillion dollars (that’s $1,000,000,000,000) in fighting drug use (primarily marijuana, which accounts for about 40% of all drug related arrests), and yet the marginal rates of marijuana use in this country have been relatively stable over the past 30 years. About half of all people in this country are in my camp; people who have tried marijuana in their lifetimes. Yet only a very small percentage of people continue to use throughout their lives (predictably, usage peaks in the late teens/early twenties, before dropping off precipitously as people reach their 30s and beyond). In other words, we’ve invested a ridiculous amount of money fighting a problem that doesn’t actually exist. The only thing that we do have to show for cracking down on marijuana is that we’ve doubled the arrest rate for marijuana related crimes since 1982 (90% of which are for mere possession) and we’ve got the largest prison population (both in real terms and per capita) in the western world.

    Marijuana definitely isn’t harmless and definitely shouldn’t be treated as such (and no one who wants to pursue professional athletics should have anything to do with it), but the policy for dealing with this social ill that has existed these past 45 years is a colossal failure and is more a blight to our society than pot use ever was. And for anyone who truly believes that our society is running down the tubes, I’m sorry, but that’s a self-serving delusion. Despite the problems we face today, the world, and this country especially, has never enjoyed greater wealth, health, prosperity, and freedom. Today people live longer, have more choices, and are less likely to die violent deaths than ever in human history (even with ISIS/Al Queda, Mexican drug cartels, etc). Don’t romanticize the past just because it seemed simpler or better to you at the time. Every era has had its struggles. Today is the greatest day to be alive.

  • @HighEliteMajor said:

    our society, our lives, everything else, would be much better without pot or alcohol.

    Wine is a sacrament in my religion. And Jesus’ first miracle was turning water into wine.

    “alcohol is one of the scourges of society. It has destroyed millions of lives. It has exacted a tremendous toll.”
    I would posit that it is not alcohol, but the abuse of alcohol, that is one of the scourges of society…and has destroyed millions of lives. And has exacted a tremendous toll.

    Do you really think alcohol is the demon, or is the demon within the individual? Do you think banning alcohol would solve the problems? We tried that and it didn’t work. In fact, it spawned even worse problems.

    If a man plays Russian Roulette and loses, do you blame the gun?

  • @KUinLA Wine is sacred in my family for many reasons. Let’s just say they’re religious! Ha!

    Totally agree with your points by the way. The reasoning is flawed. We want to blame drugs (which includes alcohol), not the abusers. Yet on an entirely different, yet parallel issue such as guns, we wish to blame the abusers and not the guns. I find it illogical.

    Interestingly enough, we hail from a state with a fierce and often violent history of progressiveness, perhaps best demonstrated by way of alcohol and the prohibition of it (Carrie A. Nation). Kansas led the way on the moral topics of that era, be it abolition or prohibition.

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