Brandon Ingram Decision
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@BeddieKU23 The Davis thing was really strange. He seemed like a dead-lock for Kansas. It is perhaps the most stark example of the price we have paid for the OAD dance. Right now, I’d still rather have Davis than Diallo, if given the choice.
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Notice the paradox: we vigilantly sweat, yearn, and dream to land “the-next-OAD”, yet we’ve seen the pattern of our system working the best with not-top-10 guys, but still some McDAAs (who were multi-year guys) along with very notable top50 guys like TRob, Morris Twins, Withey, Russell Robinson, EJ, Releford…
Again, I think Self goes for the top guys, simply because he knows many of them will take more than 1 year to become high-draft departures. Look at KY, Dakari Johnson, Doron Lamb, etc…all were supposed OADs, who stayed for more than 1 year. This isn’t just a Self-system phenomenon. Takes some guys longer.
Serviceable as a frosh, vs leaving if a lotto pick are not necessarily the same thing. Sometimes they are, like an Okafor or a Julius Randle, but other times not.
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@BeddieKU23 So a kid makes a decision based on whatever are in that kid’s head (because a top kid like Diallo can go wherever he chooses), but we will go slap Self if that kid chooses elsewhere?
Do you know anything about 7ft “Zeus”/greek god statue Kaleb Tarczewski, that Self was after hard, but he went to AZ? What happened there? Should we “not forgive” Self for that “miss”? If you think so, let me know, and I’ll tell you exactly what Self said about Tark’s recruitment (simply as 1 example).
This recruiting wanking-off is ZERO different than what’s going on over on other school’s forums and chat sites. Nothing new.
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This is the cold reality of recruiting OAD’s. One day you wake up and your left holding the bag. I get going after the best talent but at some point you have to ask yourself when does this become pointless, or where do you draw the line?
These top recruits have had more than enough time and visits to know where they want to, or have to go. What are they waiting on? I always hear such and such school is making a late push and is closing in on such recruit. Really? What kind of pushing are they doing that they could change a kids mind in such a short time?
It used to be a kid knew what college they wanted to attend when they where in junior high. Now they just sit back and let all the offers come in. Kind of makes you think what’s in those offers? Huh? I think HCBS should still recruit the best, but I also think he should have a line in the sand. He shouldn’t sacrifice the future of the program to chase some kid that is just looking for the best deal. To many quality kids in the 20 to 50 range that want to play for KU, to just dangle in the wind so you can see what a top talent is going to do.
Besides that why would you want to be left standing when the musical chairs of OAD stops?
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I am actually good with our current roster. I am letting go of any hopes of landing anyone else in this class. KU has a bunch of glue guys and future NBA’ers kind of like our 2012 team and I believe if given the opportunity Mickelson will flourish this year. Look at Jeff Witheys numbers back in the 10-11 season. They have very similar numbers and I believe he is due for some PT of we don’t land Diallo.
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@DoubleDD Loved your phrase “many kids in the 20-50 range” (waiting to see what the OADs do), as I think those have been our best kids. I’d even say 10-70 ranked. That 11-20 is guys like Chalmers, EJ, Sherron, Selden, Cole, maybe Rush…and the 51-70ish range can find gems like Mason, Tyshawn, Graham, and possibly Darnell Jackson. But it must be remembered that Jackson wasn’t even serviceable his frosh year.
Some kids actually blossom by their Sr year, while others plateau-off, don’t know who that will be. I think of the developmental guys, Kaun plateaued off. Jackson steadily improved. Mason is a shooting star, a damn stud. Graham is right there, an outta the park home run find. Lucas has to show us more in his Sr. year, or he’s a plateaued guy. Same goes for Jamari–show us more. KYoung was a plateaued player. If he played all 4yrs for us, he may have been more of a stretch 4, instead of just an energy-guy that he was. I still recall his 2 3s vs THEOhioState (lol).
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@ralster By the way, was able to read all of your posts over the weekend about your contact with coach Self. Great stuff. Really appreciate you sharing all of that.
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@Statmachine Why do you think Mickelson was so hopelessly stuck behind Lucas and Traylor? I guess I tend to think that won’t change much. Plus, Mickelson doesn’t appear to be Withey from a skill standpoint at least at present; but Withey looked rough, too. I really worry – @stupidmichael like – about our post play in our current system, with our personnel.
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Exactly and Mickelson had a full year to learn the system and earn minutes and he could only get them after all else had failed. I was intrigued by Hunter’s defensive ability but anyone who watched him knew his feel for the game just lacked. I’m not comfortable that the same roster will produce better results. Adding players that exceed our current players talent is the only way to go at this point and those are becoming harder to find.
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“It used to be a kid knew what college they wanted to attend when they where in junior high. Now they just sit back and let all the offers come in. Kind of makes you think what’s in those offers? Huh? I think HCBS should still recruit the best, but I also think he should have a line in the sand. He shouldn’t sacrifice the future of the program to chase some kid that is just looking for the best deal. To many quality kids in the 20 to 50 range that want to play for KU, to just dangle in the wind so you can see what a top talent is going to do.”
I watched “Sole Man” over the weekend and it was like a light bulb going off a hundred times. These kids are probably waiting to get some shoe verbal commitments. There is obviously quite a bit of negotiations going on that none of us are privy to.
I can’t believe Self would put himself back in the same position he was in with Tarc… and Diallo isn’t even a true 5. He must have some knowledge where he feels we have some leverage, otherwise… he has gambled our entire program off on a long shot. I give him credit for being a guy who learns his lessons in life (eventually). He didn’t get to where he is at today strictly by being stubborn. Stubborn works when you are right… but when the recruiting season closes at a blue blood school who couldn’t recruit a real 5 in a couple of years, there is nothing right about that!
This is where my head is at right now, otherwise I’d go off on a total destructive rage!
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These top recruits have had more than enough time and visits to know where they want to, or have to go. What are they waiting on? I always hear such and such school is making a late push and is closing in on such recruit. Really? What kind of pushing are they doing that they could change a kids mind in such a short time?
Very good point. In the case of Diallo, a coaching change and 2 assistants directly involved with him jumped to the home team so in his case probably a lot has changed. But if he’s truly hasn’t made his mind up then this recruiting has become an uncontrollable wack job.
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The Basketball Diary @TheBBallDiary · 6m6 minutes ago
They are finalist but hearing Kentucky, NC State, UCLA are out of the running for Brandon Ingram. Leaving Duke, Kansas, UNC as potentials.Couldn’t help my self and had to post this…
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Self did change his hi/lo last season. He positioned guys differently and had different motion.
Isn’t it time he gives his offense a new name? Isn’t this a branding issue?
I know I have zero knowledge about what happens behind the recruiting scenes… but does anyone believe that Self’s hi/lo ISN’T being used against us on post recruits? Heck yes it is. All the schools competing against us are saying how Self will force these guys to live in the low post. No big wants to do that. And also they will be forced into making their living with back to the basket moves… No big wants to do that.
Maybe we can all help out. Seriously. I bet some recruits check out message boards, too. Since Self doesn’t have a marketing background enough to understand branding, we do and we can help. I have two degrees in marketing and spent a lifetime working in sports marketing. This hi-lo horse has run it’s last leg. Time to send it out to pasture or shoot it in the head to put it out of its misery.
I’m open to suggestions…
At this moment I’m thinking we call it the “POWER FAN.” If you look at the goal from above, the perimeter 3 line makes a 180-degree fan. Our post guys can be positioned anywhere on offense… whether it means a high ball screen, base line, FT line, out on the perimeter to hit their own 3, our out away from the basket to drive it to the hole. We give our post guys full range.
If you look at Perry in last year’s offense, he was anything but in a typical hi-lo position. He was bombing 3s from the top of the key or on the sides. He was positioned on the base line and slashed into the paint. He was setup around the FT line as a passing hub. And once in a while he was in the low post to take on a mismatch.
Doesn’t get any more diverse than that! But we fail to take advantage of it because of a failure to brand it! If this was a product on the market it would fail without proper branding.
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@drgnslayr I call it the get our best scorer the ball where he can do his thing.(Perry) it worked really well til the knee injury.
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Duke is putting an all-out recruiting blitz on 5-star wing Brandon Ingram
Our only mention was in the piles of teams being considered.
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Maybe this is what we need to get good players. Go KU hotties!!
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SBNation article. Some wanna be experts opinion.
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I wonder what that ride cost? I guess Booker’s parents have money?
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@HighEliteMajor Thanks. My takeaway from all of it, and some of the well-articulated thoughts by others here with their impressions, is that Self has the guys that he does, and they each come with what attributes (or not) that they possess. Some will get better, some wont. But Self has who he has by the time it is October. He was once that midmajor coach that took a no-McD Tulsa squad to the E8 and 32-5. Its no different than what Few and Marshall and Shaka showed with an upperclassman squad.
We wistfully see what K did with freshmen, against Bo Ryan’s veteran squad, but we also see that Wisc game was up for grabs until the final 60sec or so. Wisc was up 8 with 3-4min. Plus, we saw how pretty NDame looked against WSU, and against KY, where again it came down to the last few possessions. To me, its hard to draw big conclusions from a W that was anybody’s game until the final 2min. That of course can be said for Self, if he best squad ever got beat by Davidson or Memphis in '08. Maybe he wouldn’t even be here, who knows. But I see his own successes with past schools, teams, and I look for the common denominator (for his system), and it keeps coming up as experience and toughness (to also match some level of 10-70ranked ability). To blow a 17pt lead to IowaSt in the BigXII Tourney Champ game, simply underlined the toughness/poise component was missing. Same thing for the WSU game. Mason and Graham cant do it alone.
When the announcers were saying pregame that WSU’s interior could be exploited, and we were simply unable to do it, it simply left me wondering what Cliff or more Hunter could have done. Selden no-show is a big part of the problem, as is letting a 6’4 post player (Wessel) beat you. My take is Self went back to trying to develop the post game, hoping for a lightbulb moment, as no team gets far in the dance without post play…and because Greene fell off due to injury. Problem is Cliff was done, and Ellis wasn’t the same either.
To me, Mason’s mindset needs to infect the whole team. The experience, finally, after 2 yrs of waiting should be there, along with top 50 talent throughout. But the mindset/attack/baller mentality & some confident swag has got to be there. Chalmers had an abundance of that, as did Collins and Tyshawn. KYo had it, while Lucas is spotty, as is Jamari. Withey developed it. It can be done for the developmental guys, but it takes time.
Its just a complex interplay to me, is all.
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@drgnslayr His father Melvin Booker played basketball at the University of Missouri and in the NBA and other professional leagues. He was the 1994 Big 8 POY. Forgive me for the c and p from Wiki.
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No please I have no desire for KU’s females acting in this way. Let UK have their way. Maybe in couple of years a UK recruiting porno tape will surface.
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I thought the biggest factor in the Wisconsin-Duke game was how the refs totally flipped their calls the second half. It was glaring…
Even though I think this way, I also believe the game was for Wisconsin to grab. In my books, they were far superior, especially in experience.
I thought they just played too cautious and didn’t attack. Okafor should have had zero impact (IMO) because he should have had his 3rd foul within just a few minutes in the first half. Frank had several opportunities to go to work on him but he would back off and throw the ball out (from the post or baseline). Those were missed opportunities, even more important than their missed FTs.
I will never understand why teams play different in the championship game over the style that brought them there. Wisconsin didn’t take advantage of their size and experience in the post. To be honest, I wasn’t even expecting this game to be close. Wisconsin should have pounded Duke, and by letting them hang around Duke built momentum.
It was tough to experience because Wisconsin doesn’t get many chances at a title, and Duke gets them all the time.
If I caught my daughter doing that I’d cut her tongue out myself.
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@DoubleDD we need to stay classy!
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@drgnslayr Duke had an easier game in semis.
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This game is going to hurt for a long time from my perspective. It’s going to fester. I hate that it’s going to be the refereeing to cause the festering, but it is. My view of UW was they played that game similar to how they’ve played all year. They did pass it too much, but they always passed it too much. They wouldn’t pound it inside when it seemed to be the best strategy
Duke gets calls. For that matter KU gets calls sometimes too. I still can’t get out of my mind the FT discrepancy in 1986 when we played puke in the final four. The count was 26-14 which resulted in a 30-12 FT disparity. KU outshot Duke, outrebounded Duke, out assisted Duke. They didn’t keep stats for TO’s apparently but I’d guess we out turnovered them too. Manning, Dreiling and Cedric Hunter all fouled out. Archie Marshall’s injury when we were leading led to their referee assisted comeback.
I sure hope KU gets back to the point that we can beat Duke and Kentucky in meaningful games. It could come soon, or we may have to wait a while, we’ll see.
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@wissoxfan83 I was at Reunion arena-they took out Marshall on a lay-up-RUINED his knee…NO CALL.
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@JayhawkRock78 I didn’t have the exact memory of that but it’s not surprising.
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I remember that.
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I saw a tweet today that said St. John’s was slipping because of some recent developments, but no details were given. Wondering if you had any intel on that.
Ingram seems to be giving the ACC the last word on his recruitment.
Is your social media intel program capturing any trends this afternoon?
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@wissoxfan83 I am 90 % sure about the no call. He was under the backboard a LONG time. After the collision and He was shooting a lay-up. In my mind nobody shot a free throw after they carried him off.
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Ingram is to Duke what Diallo is to KU, the primary recruiting target based on need. No question that Duke will go all out to get Ingram…it sure would be nice to steal one from rat face.
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@JayHawkFanToo I have a weird feeling that we get Ingram, only a feeling, not based on facts.
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@SoftballDad2011 I have an opinion on Diallo and Ingram BUT I really don’t like sticking my neck out there because I would hate it if people on here started telling me that my info stinks. I will not give you my opinion but I will tell you what I have found in my recent searches.
I might have looked at Diallo’s FB to find out he is friends with more UK players and UK NBA’ers than he is with KU guys. It has been said that he has talked to Embiid and he is friends with him on FB along with Svi (our only 2 foreign guys in recent memory). He did have over 3000 friends so its kind of hard to recognize every one of his friends on FB that could possibly be trying to steer him in the UK direction but give me some time I’m kind of new to this. The recent uptick in the UK 247 CB is only due to all the media buzz that’s going down atm. Just google “Cheick Diallo” and the first 20 results or more are all UK articles written in the last 24 hrs. There probably is some actual truth to it since coach Cal just visited him. I know Diallo has said he wants minutes and is not fond of the platoon thing at UK. There are already 3 other quality bigs at UK so you do the math. Everything on twitter up until Diallos meeting with Cal was KU, KU, KU now its a bag of mixed nuts but there are still more KU nuts in the bag. I would watch Matt Scotts 247 CB and if it changes then start warring.
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Trey Scott @TreyScott247 · 41s42 seconds ago
Cheick Diallo’s twitter activity suggests something might be about to go down http://247sports.com/Player/Cheick-Diallo-27331 …
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_cd13 @cheick_diallo13 · 4m4 minutes ago
It’s been a long 3 years. Just wanted to thanks all the coaches who recruited me and stopped by my school appreciated
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_cd13 @cheick_diallo13 · 7m7 minutes ago
@cheick_diallo13 all the fans who followed my journey.All my teammates, my coaches teachers who’s make me a better thanks and Love y’all
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Please keep us informed; you effort is greatly appreciated.
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Kentucky reaches out to three-star center. With the missed opportunity to add Stephen Zimmerman or Mike Thorne, and a roster in need of another big body, John Calipari has now reached out to yet another former Charlotte 49er. http://kentuckysportsradio.com/main/kentucky-reaches-out-to-three-star-center/ Does this make a statement about Diallos decision?
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Diallo had an in home visit with Calipari tonight didn’t he?
Edit … sorry, that was yesterday.
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3-star? WOW! He really is desperate; I thought that 3-start were not allowed to wear UK unis.
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Jerry Meyer @jerrymeyer247
· 2h 2 hours ago
.@Jhawk0505 I’m not hearing positive things about St. John’s chances to land Cheick Diallo.
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@JayHawkFanToo No, they can. But with a scarlet A.
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@Statmachine as always, thanks for all the good info and hard work.
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I thought Pitt had been out of it for a while and ISU’s chances also went down when the coach recruiting him went to St. John’s. I would say it is between KU and St. John’s with a late (hopefully too late) push by UK…
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@JayHawkFanToo I am guessing it was a Pitt or ISU fan that photo shopped that for Diallo.
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Here I am rooting we get an OAD. I long for the days where we can throw it into the post of an easy basket.
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@HighEliteMajor At this point something is better than nothing BUT I hear what you are saying.
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@Statmachine Man how I loved TRob. My favorite player of the Self era. Diallo’s got a lot of TRob in him.
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@Statmachine Your picture above about gave me a heart attack. All I saw was the St. John’s above Diallo.
