Recruiting Rumors
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“So if we get Ingram and he is being promised to start (ala Oubre), Greene or Svi will have to sit. Do we really want that?”
No one wants Greene or Svi to sit. But this is the SF spot. So far Greene and Svi play like SGs. Neither has shown the physicality to be an effective SF. Doesn’t mean it won’t happen… but neither guy gets the lock down at SF without earning that spot. If a young player comes in and shows he can do it, then they better stick to fighting for more minutes backing up the SF and the SG slots.
Of the two guys I see Greene as being the guy closer to finding a SF physicality. Very unlikely Svi can hold that spot this year. He really needs to strengthen up and play more aggressive basketball if he wants solid SF minutes. Really… Wayne has the best build of those three to be a SF. Just not sure he can consistently bring the physicality and I doubt he wants to give up minutes at the SG where he has his NBA hopes connected to.
I had a thread about having too many SGs on our team last year. When Conner was here, half of our team were SGs (6) even though we moved Frank to PG. Here is an area where I often rub with Self… and it is with the concept of “utility players.” Guys who can play many slots on the floor. I remember he said Selden could go 1 through 4. What I care about is how well he can play the 2. This has really killed us in past years when we move utility players in at PG.
Our SF should be our most-athletic player with a full set of skills… shooting… ball handling… finishing at the rim… rebounding… And he should be aggressive and attack the rim. He should also be able to handle an aggressive SF on the other team. I don’t think those qualifications fit with either Svi or Greene. Both tend to play timid basketball and Greene is only just starting to use some physicality. I believe that is part of why he got banged up a lot last year, because he didn’t have experience with physicality but was trying to play physical. Kudos to him for trying!
Ingram is lanky. But perhaps he plays physical and aggressive? I haven’t seen him enough to know if we could really gain anything by snagging him. He may have been able to play aggressive in HS, but can his lanky body carry him in physical play in D1? I think many of you in here probably follow him and can better answer that question. It seems like Ingram would get pushed around at the SF in the B12.
Maybe we bring in Ingram at the SG, where he probably belongs in the NBA… and move Wayne to the SF. It almost seems to be a better lineup. And if we land another big, Wayne shares minutes with Perry at the SF and backup at the SG. Wayne becomes our next EJ… a guy asked to sacrifice his future for the team’s sake.
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@drgnslayr I thought Perry was moving to the 3.
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I think that question will be resolved in the next couple of weeks… depending who we recruit.
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@drgnslayr I like Perry at the 4 but a “stretch” 4 or whatever you want to call it…like Kaminsky was this year for Wisconsin. I am not saying that Perry is going to have the same sort of year as big Frank but hey, why not dream?
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jeffborzello Jeff Borzello Other in-home visits for Brandon Ingram: Kansas tomorrow, NC State on Monday, North Carolina on Wednesday. Working on setting up UCLA. 42 minutes ago
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Can’t count out NC State now that Lacey bolted for the pro’s. They clearly have a need for a guard/SF type now.
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@dylans How in the world do these kids not just have heads the size of basketballs with all of these in home visits? Can you even imagine this circus at age 18? Multiple guys you see on TV every day all of the sudden in your house telling you how wonderful you are.
I remember when my folks and I were talking about where I was going to go to college. The three of us were at the dinner table and my Dad said, “You are going to KU. Now eat your super that your mother made.” Great talk, Dad.
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I doubt if Ingram signs he’d be a 2 guard. He’s got 5 inches on Selden. Ingram might not even be done growing and we certainly know he will have to put on a significant amount of muscle and some weight to help balance out his size.
I agree we need the SF position to have an Athletic player and right now we don’t have one we’ve been accustomed to lately. Greene is out at least 4 months and will miss the most important off-season of his career. We all think the world of Svi but Self must be not convinced those 2 are the answers.
What’s interesting to me is that if Self was happy with his guard rotation especially the SF position then he wouldn’t be recruiting players. He’s on Paschall (has to sit), Ingram, Brown, and now Ty Outlaw a Juco scoring machine. Whether we get any is another question but he’s clearly recruiting like we have an immediate Starting position open.
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“Whether we get any is another question but he’s clearly recruiting like we have an immediate Starting position open.”
I’d say so.
Maybe you’ve seen some of Ingram’s game. Can he be effective in just a few months from now at the 3 in the B12? That is the question. He isn’t going anywhere to sit.
Another question… what is his goal for D1? He does look like he could grow more… but does he think he will put on strength and muscle and become a banger? Not many guys make that transformation. I don’t know the kid at all, what he wants… but it makes sense that he thinks he can become a very tall SG at the next level. Might he be demanding SG minutes from his future D1 team?
To be honest… he looks like a very heavy Duke lean. He can get away with playing soft at the SF if he plays at Duke where they will having him outside bombing 3s.
Here is what he said last year about Duke:
“I love their style of play. At my position, you have to know how to shoot it and that’s what I do well. I love their transition play and they just get after it offensively and defensively. They also have great history.”
Bill Self isn’t going to bring in a SF to just bomb 3s. If he comes to Kansas, he’ll have to go banging in the B12 if he wants minutes as a SF. Unless he gets minutes at Kansas as a SG, I see absolutely no chance of us landing Ingram.
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He has more Kevin Durant in him than anything. That’s what he reminds me of. He’ll be asked to put on enough weight and muscle to sustain his body type. Before these All-Star games came around I think people were sleeping on him a whole lot and he wasn’t generally thought of as a OAD because his body really needs work. But he’s improved a ton since the grassroots season last summer and is now on the NBA radar as a guy with great potential that already has a polished offensive game.
Not sure what kind of defender he’s going to be off the bat and that’s something that Self values a ton. Brown offers more immediate defensive prowess but Ingram shoots it better and can be plugged into the 4 if needed on height alone.
Duke could land him but they also have Allen & Kennard as well as Jones. I think all 3 are interchangeable at the SG/SF position. They clearly need a PG or 2 at least and that’s why they are now after the Jamal Murray and Ennis kid from Nova.
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Yeah… I can see him being a Kevin Durant type. A lot more than I could ever have seen Myles Turner pull it off.
Ingram coming to Kansas and playing the SF would be the best thing for him. Toughen him up for the next level. Make him scrap it out.
But what we see and what the recruit sees are two different things. Most go for the easy path… Everything I read about Ingram is weighted on his shooting. Why come to Kansas if you want to become a premiere perimeter shooter? We seem to make perimeter shooting an afterthought to post scoring.
I hope the kid is bright enough to see what his game needs. It is going to need a lot more than just some polishing on his 3. Kansas would be a great developmental move for him if he has the brains and patience to see him as needing more than one year of college ball. If he can’t see that I’m not really interested in seeing what he can do for us in just one year. He is going to get pushed around in our league as a freshman.
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He’s a great talent and I bet he moves up some spots in the final rankings that ESPN or Rivals will do.
He loved his visit, he’s good friends with Bragg and from all accounts Carlton did a good job telling him to come on as well.
You are right about us making perimeter shooters a black hole of some sorts. We all saw what happened in the last month of the season how a top 10 3pt shooting team just fell off the face of the earth. The H/L system will do that because it’s just not run to showcase an above average reliance on 3 pointers.
What I don’t know about Ingram is will he make the team that much better if in fact he only spends 1 year in school. Is he a good passer? Can he defend and hold his own? Can he fit in the guys already here and learn the system fast enough…
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I’d like to see us finally land another quality 3 that will stay for more than one year. It definitely paid off when BRush came back after his injury. A well-oiled 3 playing for us makes us a contender. It’s the position that can be adjusted to really take advantage of holes in defenses because the 3 can setup anywhere on the court and has the freedom to score from anyplace. I don’t really have enough background on Ingram to know what he could bring us… but I know if he is really good and we could have him for more than one year, he would make a big contribution to Jayhawk basketball. Imagine if we had Kelly back this year? I’d have us as a Top 5 team regardless of who else we get or don’t get!
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Absolutely agree about finding a wing who will stay more than a year. We have Greene who’s made it to his Jr. year and he was highly ranked and thought of. Who knows maybe he will be completely different after this surgery heals. Svi has the size but I view his skill-set as more of a SG than anything.
Mack the former VCU signee is a kid with tremendous upside. His film looks pretty good, long, not an explosive athlete but good enough and can shoot. Maybe the closest thing to a developmental wing with upside to play as a freshman.
At KU you seem to have to be undersized for a NBA position to get past your freshman year. Mason if he was 6’2 probably would have tested the waters. Probably would be thought of as a pro as a Junior but the reality is he’s small for the league and KU benefits from that. Same with Ellis, skill level says he can play in the league but he’s a tweener position wise. He comes back and has a chance to be an all-time great, top 10 scorer in history, All Big 12, All-American. Great for KU again.
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I am like some others that don’t want to see Svi or Greene’s minutes taken away. If we get one, redshirt Greene because it will take awhile to get into the rotation because of his injury and have Svi come off the bench as a poor mans Harden with the Thunder. A do it all offensive punch kind of guy.
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I would love to see BG redshirt this coming year anyways. Let him fully recover and have a year to build more strength and other assets.
I don’t care if we recruit over anyone as long as the recruit coming in actually has to earn their minutes. That is the way it used to be under Self but not any longer. Top tier guys are getting promised something. It didn’t work when he said they had to earn their minutes.
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JayhawkSlant @JayhawkSlant · 26m26 minutes ago
Five-star shooting guard Terrance Ferguson says he’s been in contact with the #KU staff… #kubball
For 2016
Terrance Ferguson
Dallas, TX (Prime Prep Academy)
Shooting Guard Ht 6-7 Wt 180 Age 17 yrs 11 mo CLASS OF 16
247Sports Composite 0.9973 ?
Natl Comp 6
Pos SG 3
St TX 1
247Sports 99
10
2
2
CRYSTAL BALL Predictions
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Jerrance Howard from Kansas Jayhawks visits Terrance Ferguson
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@drgnslayr do you really think they are being promised time? Oubre and Cliff had to earn the minutes, wiggins justified himself.
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What about Wayne? He has started every single game since becoming a Jayhawk. He’s had arctic cold periods and we have three solid guys to replace him with. We used to mix up the lineup just to get guys to fight out of a slump.
I’m not sure that Kelly minded not starting at first. He was so lost out there and he probably preferred to work out some of his bugs before going public. Cliff was a complete bust. If a guy misses his defensive assignments that often there is no way you can keep giving him minutes. He didn’t figure out his defense and offered only a little bit on offense.
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@drgnslayr I’m guessing there’s more good than bad w/Wayne, plus experience?
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He has plenty of experience now… back in the beginning he was green wood like everyone else but always got the nod.
I really like Wayne, and I hope he comes on big this year. My fear with him is Self starts moving him around to other positions where he doesn’t belong. If that happens he becomes the next EJ… a guy that should have never been pushed into being a PG. I’m not saying he would be in the NBA right now but that move crushed his NBA potential. He took one on the chin for the team. I’ll always have a soft spot for EJ… a true Jayhawk! Putting a round peg in a square hole usually backfires.
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@drgnslayr I guess I trust self more than others. Wayne started sitting more in the end.
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Why wouldn’t you want this guy on your team?
“I’m using that last game and the season as my everyday motivation to get better,” Selden said in a release. “I’m happy to come back to Kansas next season. This is a special place.”
Wayne is rated the 21st best sophomore by draft express behind only Monte Morris of ISU in the Big 12. I hope Wayne improves as much as he is capable. 6’5" with a 6’10" wing span, plenty of strength and 2 years of major minutes in the system. Here’s hoping for the breakout season that I expected this year.
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“Check Diallo plays like he’s a Great White Shark and there’s nothing but blood in the water. Beyond relentless. Doesn’t know how to stop.”
dont we want that?
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@BeddieKU23 I DO !! That’s exactly what I want.
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Diallo had 26pts and 11 reb. in the Jordan Brand Classic tonight. The announcers are right, once he learns to pick his shots better he will be a much more efficient player. He definitely looks like a stud that would look good in Crimson and Blue!
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I think what we fail to realize is during the time-frame that all the # 20-100 players were signed KU was looking so stacked that Frankamp (top 30 talent) transferred. Kelly Oubre said when he signed he didn’t want to play for Cal because he didn’t want to be forced into the L after one year. Cliff looked like a two year player also and probably would’ve been had his eligibility been cleared up. I know if I was a marginally talented player I wouldn’t want to walk into that potiental logjam.
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@dylans I hope so!
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@dylans I completely forgot that the Jordan brand classic was on tonight. Even though it is just an all star game, 26 and 11 is still really solid.
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I’ll take Junior Selden over any OAD.
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Late Thursday night, Stephen Zimmerman committed to UNLV, leaving the number of uncommitted guys in the Jordan Game at three — Malik Newman, Cheick Diallo and Jaylen Brown. Brandon Ingram, who is not here in New York because he’s not a Nike kid, has also yet to publicly announce.
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Looks like Thorne to illinois
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I suppose we misjudged his interest in the other schools. I would have thought that he might take all his visits first and see where other domino’s might fall. Illinois certainly had the PT available. Can’t say that they would offer him the path to the NBA that KU could have.
Landing Diallo becomes all the more important now… Did you see the Jordan game? He was an absolute beast out there. Someone kick me and tell me he’s not the best big besides Simmons in this class. Effort is off the charts.
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@BeddieKU23 I’m hoping this is a good sign, no room in the inn.
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Matt Scott @KUTheShiver · 4m4 minutes ago
Kansas in home with Brandon Ingram and family happening right now
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@Statmachine tell me something good
️
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@BeddieKU23 I watched it last night and also noticed that KU didn’t get mentioned as trying to get Diallo. I heard St John’s, Kensucky and ISU.
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because its a nike event. They did mention him with KU a few times but a few times they also failed to mention them. The announcers know as much as us which is nothing.
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Thorne has one year left to show what he can do and needed “guaranteed” playing time somewhere in one of the top conferences. There is no way KU could have promised or guarantee playing time. KUs on the other hand cold have; another player dismissed (5leaving so far) and they will have only 3 of their top 10 scorers coming back; they do have several decent (2-3 stars???)prospect signed though.
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@JayHawkFanToo said:
I’ll take Junior Selden over any OAD.
Absolutely. No question in my mind. Selden is the kind of guy that could just explode. I’m very optimistic on Selden for next season.
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@BeddieKU23 I had posted this on another thread - Miles Simon made the point that Diallo was not a guy you’d throw it into on the block. He’s not a back to the basket scorer yet. He called him a “garbage man.” Diallo is amazing in literally every other phase. But that back to the basket scoring is our biggest need.
Here’s ESPN’s comment on his weaknesses: This is where significant improvements must be made. He lacks feel on the offensive side and while he’s got major awareness as a shot blocker he’s opposite in terms of catching and scoring. His touch is fleeting. Needs one move and he’ll be a kid that can impact games. He must continue to work to develop on the offensive end of the floor including his ball handling.
One post move. A little baby hook might be nice.
For our system, I would have liked Simmons obviously, but Rabb or Jeter would have been my choice regarding presumed OADs.
But no sense in worrying about that now. It’s all in on Diallo.
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Looked like a nice post move to me?
I understand what we want or what we need is a post who can score when he gets the ball down low. The thing about Diallo is he can score and he’s done it very easily in these all-star games. I think if he couldn’t score he wouldn’t have been the MVP in 2 of the 3 games he’s played in recently.
His effort alone says that Self and Staff can teach him a few post moves this summer. He just started playing basketball 4 years ago and look at where he is already. He might get 10 pts a game in College just on put-backs, hustle, and Lobs. He also has a good FT motion so he shouldn’t be a liability when he gets fouled. He’s not polished I know that and everyone can see it. I don’t think Embiid was farther along offensively at this point either but KU certainly accelerated the learning curve. He might have just been a once in a lifetime type big that picked things up quickly but you have to think Diallo could do the same if taught.
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@BeddieKU23 I think he is farther along offensively that what he gets credited for.
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And over Zim. Guess he didn’t want to contest the shot because he could break a nail.
Whether he can score or not… what we really need is a post presence and that starts with a guy who has a motor. I haven’t seen this kind of motor since TRob.
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@drgnslayr I agree. Right now, toughness, effort and rim protection are more important than back to the basket scoring. As he improves, it will come along.
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“As he improves, it will come along.”
It usually does for guys with motors and toughness… usually sooner than anticipated.
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All great responses. This just better work out for us then, we better start praying to the KU basketball gods.
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Amen!
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@BeddieKU23 I’m truly not trying be a contrarian here. Your link is on the spin move where he got the ball away from the basket. I had mentioned that move specifically today in another post today. Nice move on Zimmerman.
But Diallo is nowhere near Embiid near the basket. Embiid had an array of options, He did well with ball in his hands, he could put the ball on the floor in traffic, he had a drop step, he could pivot and shoot, and he had a nice little one hander (using both left and right). Again, just referring to back to the basket scoring – throw it in, make your move, and score. I have never seen Diallo do that. And Embiid was far more advanced. If I could have Embiid or Okafer, I’d take Embiid (healthy, of course).
Embiid would have been the at least the third greatest college player at Kansas had he been healthy and stayed three seasons. He was incredible.
All that said, I’m confident that Diallo can be taught. His effort does say a lot. It’s just the accelerated necessity since he’d be at Kansas about 9 months total.
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Did Embiid come into KU with all those posts moves he had in his one year?
I just don’t remember him having those before he got here. He was one of the best Bigs we’ve ever had there is no questioning that. I could be wrong but I could have sworn he was supposed to be a multi year development talent that just blew up with coaching and PT.
I agree Diallo is nowhere the player Embiid turned out to be but if all it takes is coaching to accelerate his learning curve because of his high level of effort then I’m optimistic we can get more than serviceable play from him next to Perry.
Question: Do you trust that the KU staff could help Diallo develop a go-to move B2B. Or would you rather deal with Lucas, Traylor, Mickelson B2B non existent game.
