Post-Season Post-Mortem Provocation #2 - The OAD chase is Fool's Gold
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@HighEliteMajor I agree that Self should recruit talent that fits his system. But expecting him, or any other coach, to not pursue the most talented kids he can get is asking a lot. Like I said, any of the coaches that get guys like Tyler Davis… would gladly take Towns, Zimmerman…whomever if they could get them.
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@Hawk8086 You have hit on the exact issue. Would you rather have a guy like Tyler Davis for 3-4 seasons, to develop. Or, would you rather have the chance of getting Towns or Zimmerman. And then, if you get one, your back at it the next season. If you don’t land one, then you’re hurting. Would you have rather had Embiid then Cliff, or a post player in the 15-80 range that would now be a junior? Or two?
Instead Davis, just replace him with the guys from our past … with Jackson, or Kaun, or Aldrich, or Arthur, or Morris, or Morris, or TRob, or Withey?
Or would you rather jump on the OAD merry go round?
Hard to argue with Towns, or guy like Okafer, of course. But the issue becomes the next season. And the next. Can you keep landing them? UK has. No one else really has, though,
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@HighEliteMajor Makes you wonder…did we go hard after Davis? (Or a similar guy in the past)…or did we hold back and try to keep him (or a similar guy in the past) in case we didn’t get Zimmerman, Diallo, etc.?
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@Hawk8086 We did pursue Davis. Actually, we were the favorite for Davis. But you can understand a kid in his spot … knowing we’re pursuing the OADs … going elsewhere. Not sure if others buy this argument, but I think our pursuit of OADs negatively affects our ability to land the next group, like Davis.
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First you know I’m pretty much in your camp when it comes to the OAD.
However I’m afraid KU and HCBS has no choice. As KU is a blue blood, has much recent success, and is a money maker for all those involved especially Adidas. In fact I think a case can be made that KU is Adidas top College school.
I totally agree that KU and HCBS would be better served to recruit to the system regardless of the players ranking, but advertisement and business partners pay the bills. I have not facts to back up what I’m about to say but I’m willing to bet Adidas and even media outlets like Fox and Espn have a say on recruiting.
I’m not so sure these OAD kids have much a say in were they go as they think they do. I’m amazed that a private school like Duke who has very high education values is getting OAD’s? Lets face it most of these OAD’s would have a hard time spelling their name yet they are getting into colleges with basketball history.
Think about it? UNC did every thing to deserve the death penalty from it’s education of student athletes. All the evidence is there, yet the NCAA has done nothing. Now keep in mind the NCAA gets all it’s money from the Tournament. UNC in the tournament is good for business. Another example look how the NCAA reneged on their punishment on the travesty that happened at Penn St. It seems if you’re a power 5 school you have power.
I think we are stuck my friend. KU is going to recruit OAD’s because Adidas says you will, because the Big 12 says you will, and because the media outlets says you will.
I’m willing to bet that if Cliff doesn’t declare for the NBA, he’ll be cleared to play next year???
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OAD’s just won a championship…Okafor just brought a championship to Duke. What if the next OAD we get helps KU win the championship?
Next year if we don’t land Schnider Herard I will flip a lid. Top 50 post who’s been to KU several times. Great size and will need development in College. He’s the type of player Self can have fun with.
2016 class is really not a class with a lot of established post players at this time. I know we have been recruiting Marcus Bolden & Tony Bradley. I’m sure others will pop up this summer but its definitely a guard heavy class.
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Elite 5s.
Elite PGs.
All ye know.
All ye need to know.
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“the only reason they are there longer is because they weren’t lotto picks.”
I don’t buy that. The first 30 players picked in the draft receive guaranteed contracts based on scale, and at the bottom it is around $800k. The twins should have been Top 30 picks last year.
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@drgnslayr that wasn’t high enough for them!
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Well I guess it was a lot to ask for both Kentucky and Duke to lose in back to back games in the Final 4. Those are my personal 2 most hated teams in all sports. I suppose I am still thrilled that the final at least didn’t match up both of these programs. Wisconsin slayed the dragon and unfortunately didn’t have the ability to slay Rat Face two nights later.
I really do respect Coach K. The guy has like 100 Final 4’s and now 5 titles. The numbers are incredible. But my respect certainly doesn’t make me like the guy. Coach Cal is a sleazy salesman but Coach K bothers me just about as much with his better than though attitude. The putting his hand on the chest of opposing players in the post game handshake line. The “I’ll have one of my assistants do the halftime interview” crap. The constant complaining to officials. The “Me coaching the Olympics team doesn’t help me with recruiting”. These things bother me and I fcking can’t wait until he retires. For gods sake please fcking retire.
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“that wasn’t high enough for them!”
Right about that… but I give them credit for staying longer. They didn’t give in to the fast money. Those twins are well coached. Not by Calidingdong, but their mentor John Lucas, since the 8th grade.
These kids would never be on anyone’s radar in basketball had they not made gigantic sacrifices in their lives and put egos aside to accept coaching. Funny… Cal has teams full of the other kind of dumb players just chasing fast money and highlight dunks, but the twins aren’t part of that stereotype. If Kentucky is blessed with a title soon, it is because of these guys, not the high flying flunkies.
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“Those are my personal 2 most hated teams in all sports.”
I’m with you. I put Kentucky at the top of my list because I don’t think they have an ounce of dignity. They’d sell crack on the corner if it would give them another title. I wouldn’t put Calipari in my Top 100 of college coaches. But he can convince players to come and they put everything on recruiting masses of talent.
Duke… my disdain is mostly about the arrogance. I don’t question K’s ability to coach. Simply… he can and he is in my Top 10 list. The other thing I dislike about Duke is the “Duke calls” like the late game call last night where the ball went out on the Duke player, and when it hit his middle finger, it pulled his finger back, but Duke was anointed with the ball. That was the game right there. Just answer me this… how is a player able to bend just his middle finger backwards without the ball doing it for him? Right… Just like how Duke always gets an easy bracket. They get all the favored east coast media bandwagon boasting their program either overtly or covertly.
Look at it like this… Kentucky is the mob. They will mug you for $20. They brute force and probably cheat to get to the “stature” they have. Duke is the refined corporate business model that mugs you through the front door… and it’s all legal! That is how I see those two programs that currently own a big chunk of college basketball.
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@drgnslayr guess I disagree w/you on the twins.
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@HighEliteMajor Really good stuff. You posed the key question much more effectively that I did:
“The most important issue is whether the OAD formula works at Kansas.”
Exactly. This is not an issue of whether the OAD approach can yield championships or deep runs, or whether its a good thing for college basketball, and regardless of how one feels about the issue - perhaps Bo’s antipathy to “rent-a-players.” The question whether it can work for Self and Kansas.
@BeddieKU23 You stated that “Okafor just brought a championship to Duke. What if the next OAD we get helps KU win the championship”?
Two things which I think are key. First, Okafor alone as a OAD didn’t bring a championship to Duke. They have 4 McDs freshmen, 3 of whom are project as first round picks (regardless of whether they choose to declare), one of whom will probably go 2nd and another in the top 5-7. Same thing with the last all in OAD team to win - UK in '12: it wasn’t just Davis, but multiple elite OADs (and 2 TADs). Second, do you believe that if we get one of the likely OAD bigs left, that would be enough to make us a credible FF or NC threat next year?
Admittedly, we have a relatively short track record on essentially going all in on prospective OADs. Having said that, does anyone have high confidence that the most uber talented players will fit well into the Self “system” - is there anyone out there right now that you think could give a really strong back-to-the basket presence in the post?
More importantly, what is the basis to believe that Self can consistently attract multiple OADs to KU? Whether it is style, geography, honesty, or a Shoe Co thing, how many 5 stars have committed early to KU in the past 3 years? This recruiting cycle, UK had 2 5 star and 1 4 star early commits. Duke had 2 5 star early commits. Arizona had 2 5 star early commits. All are probably in the running for some of the uncommitted based on who ends up declaring from those schools. KO has already declared and Alexander is likely gone. We have a clear need for a 5. So, what is stopping one of these guys from pulling the trigger on KU??? If they want to play at Kansas, they have an offer and we have a need. I can only assume that they are waiting to see how things play out at other schools - which tells me we are at best a second choice.
Perhaps Self pulls a rabbit out of the hat and we get either Diallo or Maker and Brown. No question that combined with Bragg and returning guys that would be formidable. It may be just as likely, however, that we don’t get any of the uncommitted. What then? We don’t have anyone currently on the team that can finish against L&As - painfully obvious this year. Is Bragg for Oubre going to change that? We could easily be looking at 3 straight year of double digit or close thereto losses. Certainly hope I’m wrong and I like the guys we have coming back, but they don’t have the right size and skills sets to execute the H/L.
It’s not an issue of not trying to recruit elite players to KU. It’s a practical issue of whether trying to recruit primarily or exclusively the late deciding likely OADs can work for Self and at KU. It hasn’t so far and I’m highly skeptical that it is doable on a consistent basis going forward. Lock in some 4 and 5 stars guys early and then if you want to hold open a spot to take a chance on a late deciding game changer, then great.
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@drgnslayr I met a KU alumnus a couple of years ago. He is a doctor in NC. He said he and others call Duke graduates “Dookwes”. As in “at Duke we do this” and “at Duke we do that” as if that was all that counted.
I liked a non call a couple of plays before the replay. First a Duke player gets a rebound but is on only 1 foot. He hops to gain balance and nothing is called. As the play progresses a Duke guard drives the baseline. The replay to show what a great play by Duke followed clearly showed that his foot was on the baseline. Obviously there was no whistle, but more disturbing was that none of announcers seemed to be bothered by the obvious lack of a call.
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Okafor might not have single handily won the championship but no way they make it past the first weekend without him. All American post who was close to winning the Naismith award. He dominated and without him Duke’s at home eating popcorn with KU fans.
If Self is going to recruit the highest talent that has the chance to leave after a year then he better do something to make it work better than it has. That’s on him to adjust to the times. Otherwise we can watch other Hall of Fame coaches continually do it for him. We are not going to magically stop going after top talent, we are a top program.
Self has attracted plenty of OAD’s to KU. Just last year Oubre & Alexander signed in Nov. to answer your question of OAD’s signing early.
We’ve lost just as many top 30-100 guys to transfers as we’ve lost OAD’s to the NBA. Both have crippled depth and Self system time.
The problems with recruiting are mostly geography. We are not particularly close to a recruiting “hot-bed”. There isn’t 5-10 top rated recruits within a 5hr drive. KU might be a tradition rich basketball school but what else? That’s why so much money is spent on recruiting. Luxury suites for the players is next, there’s a reason for that and it has a lot to do with having a top flight facility and amenities to off-set advantages other schools have. We can’t offer them Drake or Ashley Judd. We can’t offer the ocean or warm weather during season. It’s the mid-west, its the cards we are dealt.
Bragg could be a OAD as well. We just don’t think that way because of the way he has presented himself in Interviews and his 10-20 ranking. Plus he’s likely to get 15-20 minutes a game if Ellis is still here. But what if he has a better year than expected and feels he’s ready. Not Self’s fault, not his fault for putting a KU Jersey on him and maybe expected 2-3 years before going pro. College is just the escape goat for kids dreams. The rules as they are suck the life out of schools who invest heavily in them and don’t get the rewards they may want out of it. If the rules change and bring more balance then we can talk about how 2AD’s or 3AD’s are ruining the game…
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I disagree. The twins were not projected to be selected in the 1st round last year and this year they have actually improved their stock and now they are projected 2nd round picks, one of them marginally second round according to Calipari. Based on the hype they had when they chose UK, they have really underperformed; maybe, like Cauley-Stein they will get better next year and move up in the draft but at this time, I just don’t see them as first round selections any more than last year.
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From Cal’s comments on 5-7 leaving those final 2 are likely the twins. They are unlikely to wow scouts at this point. The one thing to their advantage is good size for the league. It’s usually hard to wow scouts once they form an opinion of you.
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Yes, that is what Cal said, but he also said that they are currently projected to be second round and borderline undrafted/second round, although he thinks they will move up. I am not sure they will move up and if they leave they will likely be second round, that was the point I was trying to make, rather than whether they were leaving or not.
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@BeddieKU23 Agree that Duke wouldn’t have advanced with Okafor - also believe they wouldn’t have advanced without Jones and Winslow. That was really my point - that is took three uber talented frosh to make it happen (and a fourth, at least in the NCS game).
Fair point about the timing of Oubre and Alexander. Oubre was good get. Alexander seemed to be primarily a Snacks-Chicago AAU thing - will be interesting to see how replicatable that is.
Good point about transfers - seems that we’ve had more than our fair share. Trying to recall how critical any of those were, however. Rio and Downs did okay elsewhere - anyone else a critical roster component that I’m not thinking of?
Bingo re geography - and Drake et al. Again, that’s kind of my point - given what you well articulated about some of our inherent recruiting disadvantages (doing our best to overcome, but they are there), is it realistic to think that we will be the first choice or can consistently get the 2-3 you would need to reload every year once you are in that pattern. UK can - demonstrated in the past and already has this year. Duke did this last year and already has this year. Can we? Guess time will tell. But, given that there are only 5-10 uber freshmen talents each year and I fully expect those 2 schools to continue to get half or more of them, doesn’t leave a lot to go around to KU, AZ, UNC, UCLA, and so on.
And, you may be right about Bragg. No way to know now. There are exceptions, but there has been a fairly strong correlation between HS ranking and draft status, at least as to OADs. To be clear, that doesn’t mean that a high ranking coming out of HS will lead to being a lottery pick (see Selden). But, the high OAD lottery picks have almost always been McDs or 5 star players coming in. It’s also the case that a lot of kids will declare if they clearly aren’t ready or, worse, don’t have a snowball’s chance in Gila Bend of being drafted or making it in the NBA.
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@JayHawkFanToo Saw a projection from one unnamed GM who said that one of the twins was late second round (around 60) and the other wasn’t in the top hundred on their board.
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I agree the collection of freshman was key, although I think Cook really was the engine of it all. Okafor controlled the game so much with his offensive ability and that was the key between last years duke and this years duke. Just like Wisconsin making the finals because of Kaminsky’s offensive ability. He wasn’t the sole reason but he probably was the biggest factor.
Jury is out on a lot of the transfers. But my point on that was kids that leave the program early that KU invested in them to be 3-4 year players is just as bad as knowing a top 10 kid could bolt after a year. Peters quit Basketball, Adams had more off-the court problems, White left for Nebraska, Lindsay left for New Mexico. Milton Doyle left before the first game, he’s played pretty well at his new school. This year all that can stop if everyone stays that should.
Self can go into the fall with less teaching basic system knowledge and more coaching team and individual work. With Korea games and less roster turnover we will have a big advantage over the last 2 years going into the fall.
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@jaybate-1.0 Exactly.
After last night’s game I’ve decided that the only OADs worth pursuing are centers and point guards. Guys who are going to directly impact the game on every possession, on offense or defense. Guys who have the mentality that it’s squarely their responsibility to ensure victory.
Look at the OADs Self has recruited in the past few years. Xavier Henry, Josh Selby, Andrew Wiggins, Cliff Alexander, and Kelly Oubre (I’m leaving Embiid off this list because he was not considered an OAD at the onset of his recruitment). None of them fit that mold. They all depended on others (largely) to set themselves up on offense. None of those guys possessed the Alpha mentality required to be a sensational OAD. Selby could have been there and, for a time, looked like he might have been that guy. But then injury happened and Bill took the ball out of his hands.
Calipari and, now, Consonants have proven that the heavy OAD emphasis can work if its done at the PG and C positions. Albeit with truly elite talent, of course.
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Ok, then … if we are offering advice to coach Self, would it be then to avoid OADs all together, except the game changing center and/or the game changing point guard?
That would mean no Wiggins, no Oubre, no Cliff. But Embiid would be ok? – (understanding Embiid may not have been a publicly presumed OAD when he signed, but probably was considered that by Self. We know Pitino said in June/2013 that we could have the top 2 picks in the draft – they knew).
I would say, though, that it was the entire package at Duke. The highly talented group of players. They do not win that title in my opinion if they were lacking either Jones or Okafer, and likely not if they were lacking Winslow.
However, suppose you took just Okafer and air-dropped him into Kansas? Right now.
Mason, Svi, Selden, Ellis, Okafer.
Bragg, Greene, Graham, Lucas off the bench.
Thus the dilemma. That looks pretty good.
Is Diallo that good?
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Kind of hard to find draft stuff now on 2014, but what I found, draftexpress, had him at 24. The Top 30 gives contract guarantees.
Hey… maybe the twins are gone! While looking for old draft stuff I found this:
John Calipari: 5-7 Kentucky players likely gone to NBA
Maybe back to the NIT for Kentucky next year?
And maybe no more top talent to Kansas for next year?
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@HighEliteMajor My answer to your question would decidedly be NO - do not avoid OADs altogether - but also don’t base your recruiting strategy on going after the highly likely (even if not certain) OADs. Given some of the unique recruiting challenges we face, it would be to build the core of your roster focusing on the best 4 and 5 star guys who are more likely than not (again not certain) to be around at least a couple of years - go after them hard and sign them early - guys who would love to play for a blue blood program. Leave a schollie and selectively go after the very top of the class - not out of need or desperation - if you don’t get him, you still really like your roster and chances. If you get him, you’re thinking NC.
Yes dropping in Okafor would look great. But, how many others had the same low post skills in his class - Towns and that’s probably it. So, if you went all in and whiffed, it’s a lost season (relatively speaking - like the last two). Even if you drop Okafor in, you better hope it gets you a deep run, because what about the following year. You have to replace with a similar talent level, because you have nothing at all in the post.
PS - have not heard anything to indicate that Diallo has anything close to Okafor’s skills in the post. May be a better defender, however.
@drgnslayr While I would like nothing better than for UK to end up in the NIT next year, regardless of what happens with the twins (who may end up staying), they look to be loaded again. Arguably their two best players after Towns - Booker and Ulis - are likely to be back (although Booker shows up as a mid-1st round on most draft boards). And, they will have Poythress back, plus probably Lee and maybe Johnson. And, Calipari already has the top-ranked class (2 5 and 1 4 star) and he could very well get one or two of the uncommitteds - looks like they are waiting to see with UK guys declaring - wouldn’t be surprised if Newman ends up there.
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Is Diallo an elite offensive talent that Okafor is. Not even close, Okafor has rare skill set for a big.
Diallo is a better defensive player even though he’s a good 2 inches shorter and a few pounds lighter. I’ve seen enough games that weren’t an all-star setting to know that Diallo can impact the game like no other big in his class. But if you throw him the ball in an Iso situation he’s not going to score like Okafor could. The things that I like about Diallo the most is that he can get put-backs, an underrated skill, he runs the floor effortlessly and his hustle is never a question.
What do we want at the 5? A shotblocker? A footer? A scorer? Diallo is A, none are 2 but Thorne is close. and Zimmerman is the last.
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I thought the refs were part of the package as well…:)
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UK is not going to the NIT next year, They are the #1 ranked team in the first ESPN poll for next season.
BTW, ISU is ranked #4, KU #8 and OU #9, Baylor #15 and Texas #21, so it looks like the Big 12 will continue to be tough and Conference Title #12 will be a lot more difficult to win.
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I’m reading a book now called “Tales from the Jayhawks hardwood : a collection of the greatest Kansas basketball stories ever told”. It has stories and quotes from many of the great Kansas basketball stars that ever played here. To name a few, Dave Robisch, Clyde Lovellette, Jo-Jo White, Bud Stallworth, well you get the idea. Really almost all of the greats.
Every single one of them, when asked why they chose The University of Kansas answered the same.
It felt like family. I felt loved. I felt respected. I was overwhelmed by the history and tradition. The campus was beautiful. The fans were knowledgeable and friendly.
Not one dang mention of " I wanted to be in the national spotlight." “I felt going to Kansas would improve my NBA draft prospects.” " I felt I could make an extra 3 mil per year if I went here instead of…Utah State (whatever)."
Pay attention Bill. Recruit the ones who want to work hard and be part of a family. They will hang banners in the Fieldhouse.
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How the times have changed. I bet none of those players had as a final goal to go to the NBA but to get a degree. Nowadays, college is just a steppingstone to the NBA; unfortunately for better or worse…this is reality.
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@JayHawkFanToo Reality Bites.
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I doubt any of those guys were looking at the NBA as a goal. When they played, the average NBA salary was less than the salary you could make as a college graduate going into the work force.
That changed in the 1980’s. The potential to make a huge living as a player now existed, even if you were not a superstar like Wilt or Kareem. Once that happened, players with pro futures could envision themselves playing in the NBA as early as high school. Remember, most players in the 1950’s and 1960’s wanted to play college ball because that was more popular than pro. It wasn’t until the NBA took off in the mid 80’s (the Bird/Magic years) that this changed.
Avoiding OADs assumes that non-OADs will be comparable in talent by the time they are juniors and seniors. Basically, the Frank Kaminsky model.
KU has had guys like that the last few years.
Andrew White did not improve enough to make the rotation, so he transferred. Jamari Traylor is here right now, but we really need a guy that plays ahead of him because he is undersized. Frankamp could not beat out Mason and Graham (two other non OAD players), so he transferred.
The hope is that everyone will improve each year, but the truth is that some guys hit their ceilings much more quickly than we would like. Will Landen Lucas improve enough to be the third big next year, or would we be better off with another freshman big man? That’s the pressing question when recruiting guys beyond the top 20 or 25. How much will they expand their game year by year? Will they make the team better as a junior than a potential OAD would make the team as a freshman? That question has to be asked on a player by player basis.
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…indeed, with diamond encrusted gold grill
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@justanotherfan I understand your analysis, but I’m not quite on board with all it.
First, I don’t want the Jamari Traylors or Landen Lucas’ near our roster except as guys that will sit, learn, and develop. Not good examples for what I’m suggesting. And then, only if truly ready, would those type of guys play their junior and senior seasons (or if we get lucky and they’re Derrick Williams). Right now, neither justifies a bigger role than 4th big, and then, in my mind, only Lucas.
Second, I don’t think it necessarily assumes a Frank Kaminsky – meaning an All-American. I think it assumes a Withey, or Morrises, or TRob (who was comparable to Kaminsky), or Jackson.
Third, you also have to consider the OAD. Thinking of OADs as the Okafer model is nice, for example – studs. But how about the Cliff model? Not sure whether it was all Cliff … I think Self just has a low tolerance for not “getting it.” But OADs do flame out, and you have little time to cash in . Again, how much of KU’s resources were lost on Cliff?
Finally, I would argue that Andrew White did improve enough to make the rotation. He showed it early in the 2013-14 season. He definitely performed. He just had a roadblock in Wiggins. There is no doubt White was better all around than Greene at the time. It’s like the high school quarterback that could start at most schools in town, but a D-1 guy is a class ahead of him. No room. Self chose Greene for a reason over White, but it didn’t appear to be because Greene was better at the time than White.
You are exactly right. It has to analyzed on a player to player basis. But the challenge is roster management. If you have a recruiting approach, then you eliminate variables. So, in hindsight, I would say, for example, that Wiggins was probably the better player vs. what White would have been in 2013-14. Not sure our team is better than it would have been. But I’m very comfortable is speculating that White would have given us more over the entire season than Oubre did. And now White would be going into his senior season. I just think that works better for a system guy like Self.
Inexact science to be sure,
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@HighEliteMajor Agree totally about OADs, and our best system guys are 11-70ish ranked multi-year guys. These are still top athletes.
My take is Self gets his McD’s and he is already quite aware that 80% of them will have sub-expectation frosh seasons and come back for Yr 2, or possibly Yr 3. Self just doesn’t know who it will be… If he gets them back, he wins for his system, as who wouldn’t want a McD-level talent to come back for another year. Even Calipari would–his best teams were ‘blended’ ones.
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A lot of resources were wasted on Cliff. If he hadn’t signed early may we have gotten the package duke got?A big factor that slowed his development was the Ankle injury he got in the summer. That really kept him from developing any post skills or hard work ethics. I bet Self was frustrated that he couldn’t “get it” especially the comment that he gave on his year as “interesting”. After the fact it really looks like he could have used 2 more College years and maybe/probably could have had a similar year to T-Rob by that Jr. season.
The problem is these top rated kids don’t have a “chip on their shoulder”. They already believe they are the man through years of constant recruiting questions and hyped you-tube video’s. They know if they just skate by and show enough effort that they will be making money in a year. I don’t think there is any question that Frank Mason played with more effort than Kelly Oubre did all year. The difference was that all Oubre had to do was not get hurt and show enough skills at certain points of the season to get drafted. Mason at his size, is literally playing every game to even get on a NBA radar or a chance at a professional career. We will see more of this in his Jr. year.
I think that in itself deals with a lot of the issues you see in the College game. Coach K was able to mold a special group of Freshman into vet’s. Great for him, now he’s stuck with exactly 3-4 players returning. Cal did it when they beat KU in 2012, ended up in the NIT the next. It doesn’t happen very often and will always be an “inexact science”. Wisconsin made it to the finals through years of development and years of chemistry and PT. Next year if Dekker doesn’t return, they will return back to rebuilding with a thin roster… The College game is becoming more and more a yearly Russian Roulette where coaches are having to re-train an entire arsenal every 6-8 months.
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@BeddieKU23 I have never bought into this idea that players of any type, OAD or not, shut things down and don’t play hard to prevent injury. First of all, they are very competitive. They want to show people, especially other players, that they are the best. Some of this has led to the current state of the game since more and more people value dunks and posterizing the opponent., These players don’t appear to be concerned for their health performing some of the dunks that we see on the highlight videos. These kids play basketball. For some that is their life to the determent others aspects of it. I fail to believe that if a player sees an opening to get to the basket either on the playground or AFH, they think “I better not take it to the basket because I might get hurt”. Secondly, these kids are kids. They think that they are invincible. Injuries happen to other people and not them.
Although the kids have had people blowing smoke into various orifices of their body, it becomes clear even to the densest of them that NBA players they go against in pickup games are better. When they go to camps run by NBA players it is drummed into their heads that they must work hard to make the league.
There are players who enter the draft because they might get injured the next year. This is different than dogging it on the court. Part of drafting for potential means that scouts and GMs look for people with high athletic ceilings and also the determination to work to get to that ceiling. Why would a team want to draft someone regardless of athletic ability who demonstrates that they are coasting?
There are probably some players who do dog it. These are usually players whose worries include the bus ride from Istanbul to wherever the next game is.
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That was not my intent to say that certain players don’t play hard. But I think we would all be fools if we didn’t believe that kids that know they will get paid are more careful in the things they do. To a certain degree it has to do with consistent effort.
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“UK is not going to the NIT next year,”
Probably not… but I couldn’t resist the jab!
And… you never know. They weren’t supposed to go to the NIT in 2013 either.
ISU #4? Have they nailed some big recruits and not told us? Won’t Niang be a senior? I think he is a solid player, but he doesn’t have the talent to lead them to a FF. #4 would indicate they are FF material. They always have good offense, and they look good early on, but they kind of seem to run out their legs by the end of the season. Seems they need more depth to keep up the motion.
Kind of hard to rank any B12 team over Kansas until one of these teams prove they can win our league.
I think there are plenty of players out there that never found that last gear… the 110% gear that can separate them from the herd at crunch time. I think we need to be recruiting more of these kids. They probably need to bring their own chip with them to Lawrence because we haven’t been good at developing a team chip. I’d love to have another guy like Kevin Young… this time let’s get one for 4 years!
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@drgnslayr I’m not sure about your assessment of Niang - against US anyway, he always looks like the best player in college basketball.
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@nuleafjhawk doesn’t everybody have their best against KU?
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I think Niang is used too much in the year… counted on too many times. His legs usually look like rubber at some point in February. He is very talented… but every player has their limits and can be used up. The Mayor would be smart to try to manage his minutes and assignments better next year if he wants to make any kind of March run.
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ISU is bringing just about everybody back and a few new players including a talented 7’ Greek that had to sit one year. No question that they will start as favorites to win the Conference next season and if Diallo joins the team, they will be a top 3 team, no question about it. IMHO, Niang is good, really, really good and will likely start as pre-season POY in the Conference.
