In Case Anyone Keeps Count...
Zero McDonalds All-Americans 71 vs Nine McDonalds All-Americans 64
And only four of those AAs were freshmen.
Let’s all boast about what a great coach Cal is. I had to flip the TV off after the game. Too many sportscasters raving on and on about what a great coach Cal is.
@drgnslayr I know what you mean. I think it has a little bit to do with envy on my part. I only wish our coach and program was the popular choice for these young kids. I honestly hope that all the stars align and HCBS can capture lightning in a bottle during this off season and sign the right players to make a deep run next year.
I want Kansas to catch it’s fair share of top talent, but I really don’t want 9 McDs AAs on a team. I’m more envious of Duke. They have 3 freshmen studs that really pull the weight on that team with several elder players that also pull weight. I still consider them a college basketball team, not a pro franchise like Kentucky.
Duke isn’t going to win just because they overwhelm teams with talent. Duke wins because their guys get very good coaching and they execute. We can all hate Rat Face as much as we want, but the truth is the guy is actually a great coach! He deserves one of the top spots in the HOF. He is a guy that could coach up some average players and have them compete. I don’t believe Cal could do that.
approxinfinity last edited by approxinfinity
@drgnslayr Puke! Prior to dismissing Suliamon, Duke had 9 AA’s as well. Let’s not buy into the holier than thou BS aura that Duke tries to pump out.
Senior Quinn Cook, juniors Marshall Plumlee, Rasheed Suliamon and Amile Jefferson, sophomore Matt Jones and freshmen Jahlil Okafor, Tyus Jones, Justise Winslow and Grayson Allen.
While I agree that Nerd-rat is a better coach that Squid, he still thrives on technicalities and stacking the deck, just the same.
Okay… I had no idea that Rat Face got that much talent, too.
I was wrong.
Even though I already disliked Duke, I’ll throw them on the hate pile with Kentucky!
Yes… rat face is a better coach than the squid. But if you have 9 McDs AAs on a team and can’t win a National Championship you have to be mentally void.
We refer to rat face as Gargamel at my house.
Badgers all the way!
Funny thing… if they win on Monday, they will have beat 18 McDs AAs this weekend and they will never really receive the media love that either Kentucky or Duke would have received.
I noticed how many of those media guys were sulking after Kentucky lost. They had a dream that they would have been part of history when Kentucky won out just like Indiana did. So their little “15 minutes of fame” crashed just like Calipari’s did.
Wouldn’t life be grand if Kentucky continues to get all the top college picks and continues to not win more National Championships?
Wisconsin is using “drgnslayr’s chip” technology. They carried the chip from losing to Kentucky last year… and they’ll have the chip from losing to Duke this year.
REHawk last edited by
Post-game on TBS, Kentucky coach and players come to the interview table first; an inordinate amount of time spent with the asking and answering of inane questions. Eventually, Wisconsin came to the table, and the interview was cut quickly. I suppose that viewers of the championship game will still have to bear with airing of more Kentucky bullhockey… Hall of Fame coaching inductee. And just look at what he, in past jobs, has been most FAMOUS for! And this season, 9 McDees, and Cal can’t move past a semifinal team with none.
approxinfinity last edited by approxinfinity
@REHawk Maybe the fault is with the Mcdonald’s All American selection committee. Give me Dekker any day of the week! Ranked 13th in his class.
@drgnslayr Isn’t a good part of the success of Wisconsin due to experience? They have upperclassmen and they were there last year. Sure, good players, and good coaching…but they also have experience on their side.
A Former User last edited by
@approxinfinity Now tell us how you really feel? LOL
truehawk93 last edited by truehawk93
This is what I like about Bill Self recruiting. There is an upside and downside to his recruiting strategy. The upside is that Self only gets what he needs. He doesn’t necessarily recruit for numbers like UK. For example, we could use a solid 3, but it’s not imperative. We all agree a 5 or big 4 is necessary. This is why I’ve been hoping for Diallo and maybe Brown or Ingram.
The downside is every other blue blood is after the same recruits. Self will have to recruit the elite, but have a few other options too. For example, look at some jucos or maybe some transfers. We should be ok for next season.
If you look at Dook, they have a nice mix. Tyus Jones at the pg. Winslow at the 3. Okafor at the 5. They have a nice returning group in Cook, Plumlee, Murphy, Jones, Jefferson, and Grayson is a good long-term player.
I thought our 2012 mix was pretty solid, except not having BMac or even Traylor hurt. I really wonder “what if” with BMac and Traylor at that time. I wonder if 2012 was our year, but our circumstances beat us rather than UK.
@drgnslayr @approxinfinity Not a fan of Duke, but you have to give K credit - he had his own way of doing things and has adapted pretty effectively. Lengthy article in the Washington Post today by John Feinstein. Notes that K saw mid-season that this year’s team, which had 3 freshmen starters and another frosh playing significant minutes off the bench would “struggle to play the aggressive, attacking man to man defense that had become his calling card” - sound familiar? So, when they lost back to back games by wide margins to NCS and Miami - and, that point, they had lousy defensive efficiency ratings - he “resorted to his least favorite 4 letter word: zone.” They are 20-2 since then. Would love to see a bit of that adaptability in HCBS. And, while Duke may have been once stacked with McDs, they have just 8 scholarship players now.
Obviously, Coach K knows how to coach. But why does the basketball world focus on the coaches that sign 9 McDs AAs and then act like it is such an incredible deal that they are able to get to the FF? Seriously?
I realize Duke has 3 super freshmen on their team. And I like watching all of them play. They really know what to do and how to do it. And I have to give K some credit in putting all that together.
But why don’t we give other coaches who have ZERO McDs AA on their team but can still win at least equal credit? Don’t they have the tougher job? They have to make huge leaps in development. Bo Ryan had to bring all those kids along to where they could step on a court and kick Kentucky’s butt. I think he is 10 times the coach over the squid.
I’m sick of watching NBA teams beating up junior high school teams and listening to the media rave and rave about how great they are coached. Give me a break. I still don’t respect the squid for anything more than being able to recruit.
“Isn’t a good part of the success of Wisconsin due to experience?”
Absolutely. And all those guys have a chip on their shoulders. Did you hear about how bad they wanted to play Kentucky again? That should have told fans plenty. I believe they have 4 guys on that team that will go pro and none of them were anything like that quality of player when they stepped into the Badger program. Major kudos to the players and Ryan (and his coaches) for developing their players and team to this level.
When I watch Badger basketball I get excited because it is more of what I expect from the game instead of “rent a stud” Kentucky who really doesn’t do anything well but can brute force victories by having footers all over the court blocking and changing shots. I’m sick of hearing how great Kentucky’s defense was. They have the best athletes, and tallest. Remember when we had just one stud, Jeff Withey, in the paint and how great just one tall guy made us?
Anyone want to guess why Ashley Judd wasn’t shown in this game? Probably because they had a good idea the Kentucky streak was coming to an end. I saw her at every Kentucky game this year… but suddenly she doesn’t show up to the Final Four? It wouldn’t surprise me if her agent didn’t work out a deal with the media wonks to only show her in the final seconds if Kentucky was up by 10. Bet we would have seen her then!
@drgnslayr Well, I for one have been in various posts been trying to do exactly as you say - extolling the coaching virtues, well at least capabilities, of the coaches who have succeeded with clearly lesser talent. To be fair, Izzo has gotten a lot of attention this past couple of weeks for his remarkable tournament record with relatively few top recruits. Also to be fair, Izzo has 1 NCS and K has 4 - could be 5 after tomorrow (although I hope not). Whatever else you think about them, Calhoun and Pitino have done pretty well in the tourney without many OAD or elite talents. I would put Self is similar company - KU has had good talent, but not really top tier (until the last 2 years classes; and look how those turned out - but discussion for another thread…).
PS - and agree completely re Ryan and the Badgers.
I’m a huge Izzo fan. I often clashed with Calhoun and Pitino, but I respect those guys.
I really didn’t know that K had so much talent on his team, competing with Kentucky. I still think he is one of the best, but I put the guys who make the most out of little on my top shelf!
“I would put Self is similar company - KU has had good talent, but not really top tier…”
I’m with you. I’m currently a bit confused with Self, however. I guess we’ll just try to be one of those teams with 9 McDs AAs. I’d rather see us with only a few mixed in with juniors and seniors who have been coached up. Sometimes lately, it seems our coaches are caught up a little too much into the HS ranking system. They seem to turn away from guys who aren’t ranked up even though they have the most upside. I’d rather have more of those guys that are carrying their own chip. Otherwise… we always go down to teams like WSU because their guys are all “chipped up.”
FarSideHawk last edited by
@drgnslayr agree with all you’re saying about Kentucky and Calipari, but just wanted to say that Ashley Judd was at the game. They showed her in the first half when Kentucky came back and tied the game. Not sure if they showed her in the second half. I went to bed after the first half and got the pleasant surprise when I woke up in the middle of the night and checked the news.
A Former User last edited by A Former User
@approxinfinity There are some around here who would look at how Dekker graded out and think HCBS was an idiot for recruiting him.
Wt:215 lbs Shooting:Good Rebounding:Developing Handle:Good Passing:Good Strength:Developing
But I’m with you. I can think of 3 starters I’d trade for Dekker and The Tank.
Guess I missed her. In the Sweet 16 weekend they showed her every 15 seconds.
Think she’s just a diehard basketball fan and since she already bought the Finals tickets will show up for the Finals?
hahaheheeeee… I seriously doubt it!
I’d pay $10,000 for her Finals tickets if she signed them! Just for a laugh in my man cave!
JayHawkFanToo last edited by JayHawkFanToo
I have always been on the side that thinks a very good, experienced upperclassman will outperform an inexperienced McD just about every time. I would prefer to have experienced upperclassmen but I am also a realist and understand that the college scene has now changed, and not necessarily for the better, and teams with upper classmen able to compete at the next level is nowadays the exception rather than the rule.
Lulufulu last edited by
@drgnslayr I refuse to give the squid credit for recruiting. I will swear up and down until the grave that he is doing something illegal, at very least highly questionable.
I also find it highly irritating that he even got selected for the HOF. Sure he has been a coach for x amount of years required and been to x amount of final fours and gotten a ring. BUT he had 2 full seasons of wins vacated with UMASS and Memphis. That should count against him. No, that should disqualify him from even being considered for the Coaching HOF.
I live 3 hours from Springfield Mass. I am highly tempted to make that drive on 9/11/15 to be there when he gets inducted and be " the unknown heckler "
wrwlumpy last edited by wrwlumpy
Except Josh Gasser and Jordan Hill who doesn’t play, all of Wisconsins players come from within a 300 miles radius of the school. 8 of their players are from Wisconsin. It has been 41 years since they have been in the championship game. When the star’s align, they align.
wrwlumpy last edited by wrwlumpy
Bo Ryan’s coaching career before 2000. Most of it was spent coming to KC for the NAIA. These are the schools where talent HAS to be developed. Maybe if MU doesn’t Bail on Kim Anderson and allows him to get some 3 stars and maybe a 4 star, they might make a comeback. Of course I doubt that will ever happen.
“I also find it highly irritating that he even got selected for the HOF.”
I feel the same way as does at least half the D1 fans in this country.
But his name can be vacated from the HOF just like his past seasons. Didn’t Pete Rose get tossed from the baseball HOF?
@drgnslayr Nope. Pete never was eligible to be elected. I never was a fan of Pete, but he had a great career. And, if they allow players who used PEDs to be inducted, Pete ought to be inducted too. PEDs were a far worse blight on baseball than anything Pete ever did.
@Wigs2 The players who used PEDs put a lot of butts in the seats in the 1990s and gave the sportswriters who vote a lot to write about. Since butts=$ MLB looked the other way and still does.
I totally agree… PEDs destroyed baseball and the record book.
Now it is hard to go backwards and cleanse the records. What records should count, what records shouldn’t count?
The problem is MLB has lost credibility. If a player suddenly kicks butt because he made a huge performance break through then everyone will question it, and should.
What is the policy at Kansas concerning PEDs?
Do all our guys get tested regularly? Anyone know?
I’ve heard the testing can be quite expensive because there are ways of hiding some of these substances in the system.
Lulufulu last edited by Lulufulu
@drgnslayr NO idea. Good question though. Worth looking in to. But, something tells me the basketball program has nothing to worry about. Traylor seemed to be bigger last season. Cliff was less of himself than he was at the start of the season. Perry, stayed the same.
SVI actually gained size I thought. That photo that Hudy posted of him, he looked ripped and he was a skinny twig when he got to KU. But that was hard work, its doubtful there was anything illegal used with Svi’s gains.
Of course, I cant speak for any of the other sports because I know absolutely nothing about them.
@drgnslayr In the 70’s I can remember getting tested early in the track season-but that seemed left to chance concerning the timing. I also remember giving a sample at the Big Eight Championships.
I know they’ve tested both my kids in school and I am happy about that-because the kids know they will be tested I’m sure it will help stop some kids who would cheat if they could.
So my guess is they test these college athletes at least a couple of times including March.
Crimsonorblue22 last edited by
@Lulufulu Svi is still growing too!
@Crimsonorblue22 I have tweeted Svi 2 times in the last 30 days asking him to confirm his height to no avail lol. KU has him listed at 6’8" but who really knows now that measurement was taken months ago?
Crimsonorblue22 last edited by
@Statmachine just thought on the court he looks like he’s filling out nicely.
Your kids were tested for PEDs or for recreational drugs? I am of the opinion that the testing gets quite expensive to adequately test for PEDs.
@drgnslayr We were told they would be tested for PED’s, and I didn’t hear about anyone who tested positive. I suppose that could have happened, and it was handled quietly. They told us everyone would get tested but for all I know they only ran a small percentage?
I will say there is a HUGE emphasis at our school for scholastic performance and most kids know they won’t be playing DIV 1 sports in college. They study hard, and go to practice. I SELDOM see or hear about this kids putting in the extra effort many of us put in on our time to compete at a higher level athletically. That said, we didn’t have year round AAU sports either.
I am not so naïve to think there isn’t some drinking and recreational drugs involved with some of the kids but again it could be something that was handled quietly if they were caught? I don’t think they said anything about testing for that. but I would have been okay with it.
You mentioned expense: Here is a story about Texas testing/expense/cheaters/etc.
I’ve been on my soapbox here about cheating before. While I hate cheating, I was very happy this program could reduce the pressure to use PED’s and keep kids clean- because they can ruin themselves. Someone I know got leukemia and died from it way back when. I never made the connection but one day at a reunion I found out the deceased blamed steroid use. I never knew he used them until then.
Just wanted to add an example of PED’s limitations.
I knew a great kid at KU-had a thin frame and not much testosterone, and not much speed. But he loved hanging around athletes. He started working out without much progress at first, but within two years looked like a freak. It never did anything for his speed and little for his agility. He tried to walk-on at KU for football and didn’t make it.
I think the coaches protected him and KU both.
With the advent of HGH, only the uninformed get caught cheating with steroids. You need pretty sophisticated testing to catch the new flavors of HGH and the cost is extremely high and even Olympics-like labs cannot catch all the cheaters
Having said that, I believe players are tested at random during Conference play and I recall Bill Self mentioning one time that one of the players was not available because he was taking the pee-in-the-cup test; I don’t have any idea what exactly they test for.
I don’t know if I am just working for careful companies, but I have been giving urine samples after job offers for decades. The last two they checked the temperature to make sure I didn’t carry it in.
Many insurance companies as part of the overall umbrella policy require random testing. Once a week, or more often depending on the company size, an employe or employees are selected for random testing and they have 2 hours to report to an authorized lab. It can be a nightmare if you are traveling and have to report to a lab in a city you are not familiar within 2 hours of your plane landing…oh well. it is the society we live in…
@JayHawkFanToo I traveled heavily for business most of my career and had a tight schedule especially on road from 7 to 7 at a minimum. If I had to cancel a meeting scheduled because of some random test I would have exploded. I wouldn’t care if you hit me with a random test at the home office but when you schedule these things back to back and be put in a panic mode when my trips to some cities were only 2 or 3 times a year I would lose it.
I did too but my name was not selected which would not have been a problem but one time one of our young engineers names got called while he was boarding a plane for Memphis. Back then, mid 90s, most people did not have cell phones with e-mail so we had to have the airline intercept him while deplaning and had to make arrangements for him to go straight to an approved lab. before his meeting; a royal PITA.