What if KU doesn't get any OAD's?

  • Banned

    I was reading about Oubre declaring for the draft. I think it would be a miracle if Cliff comes back. I just don’t know if the NCAA is going to clear him to play. Selden seems like he wants to go, and I believe even Ellis has said he doesn’t know if he’s coming back.

    I’m not sure how many scholarships KU has to give? Yet I’m starting to get a sick feeling to my stomach. What if KU is entering to the downside of the OAD. Yea we have Bragg but what if nobody else comes? Now I know some will say that won’t happen, yet I’m starting to believe it’s a real possibility. These OAD’s want a for sure run in the tournament, and let’s face it KU has bowed out in the second round two years in a row.

    Could KU’s lack of tournament success scare of potential OAD’s?

  • @DoubleDD didn’t hurt duke last year.

  • Banned


    So do you think KU will manage without replacing Oubre, Cliff, and Ellis if he decides to go. I’m not sold on Selden going yet, but what do I know.

  • @DoubleDD said:

    Could KU’s lack of tournament success scare of potential OAD’s?

    We can only hope so!

  • @DoubleDD no, but I’m hopeful Self will bring someone in to replace them. We have some pretty good Jayhawks in the NBA, that’s a pretty high calling card.

  • we have 2 to give, 3 if cliff leaves. I’m sure we can all do the math if more were to leave.

    Plenty of opportunity for those top rated players nobody here wants. They’ll ruin everything if they win a championship!

  • @DoubleDD

    Since Self has signed two each the last season, it seems likely he will at least match that this season, since he has holes to fill at the 3 and the 5. To paraphrase Coach Self, KU has to get some more scoring in the post.

    Whether KU signs any OADs appears to depend significantly on whether the adidas-agent complex has any unsigned OADs remaining in any of their sponsored power AAU teams. There probably are some, so I would assume Self will sign at least two, as he has the last two seasons.

    But I also thought Oubre would stay, so my divining rod is obviously not totally efficient. 🙂

    What would we do if Coach Self signs no OADs?

    I suspect he will turn up some non OAD bigs, probably two more after Bragg. I suspect one would come from Mike Fratello’s and Bob Hill’s Eurasian team that sent us Svi. I suspect he would be fairly bulky fellow of the type of Gonzaga’s bigs. I suspect the other would be graduated transfer of considerably girth, too. Our two returning bigs–Jamari and Landen, would be well supplemented by two big lugs.

    I also think that Wayne, if he were not displaced by an OAD 2, or 3, would develop into a fairly consistent player next season capable of playing the 3 for us, and I believe Brannen Greene will become consistent for us at the 2 or 3 next season also.

    Really, we are in pretty good shape for next season on the perimeter.

    But we really need either an elite 5, or a pair of big bruisers, at the 5, to make the team as viable as other teams that went deep this season.

  • I just watched the McDonalds all American game and Brandon Ingram said Bragg was doing the best at recruiting him for what that’s worth. Zimmerman said the same thing. Diallo is supposed to be a KU lean and he LIT it up tonight and locked up the MVP award.

  • I watched a bunch of coverage of Bragg this week and he seams a lot like Devonte Graham. Always smiling, up beat, good teammate, and probably the most popular with everyone. He hit a lot of 3’s too.

  • KU has been here before, and everytime a Chicken Little screams the sky is falling. Most of the concerns on this post have been addressed.

    We actually need to reload/rebuild. I’ve said before and will say again. Oubre is gone. Alex is likely gone and Self needs to push him because this Loangate is not going away. The NCAA will dog this until Alex declares. I don’t think Self or Alex has a choice at this point. I don’t know all the details, but the ultimate victim is Alex. We just lost a potentially great player and just never completed the season.

    Selden needs to leave. He’s digressing for some reason. He needs to review his stock status and if he’s late in the first round, GO. If he’s in the first round go and get picked up somehow. If not, there are a lot of options for his development. If Selden returns, he must return in beast mode with something to prove. I just don’t think a return will do him much good. His fate is pretty much sealed.

    Ellis may actually be the obvious sleeper. Many of us thought he’d return and will like do so. However, he’s in a similar boat. His stock isn’t too bad. Unlike Selden, he was actually on the upside of his junior season. I don’t think it matters either way for Ellis at this point whether he goes or stays. I think staying may be to his advantage for his senior season. But, like Selden he risks losing what he’s worked so hard to achieve. Ellis has a heart and a different way of looking at his life. I say he’s back for his senior season, but it would be a pleasant surprise to me if he leaves.

    Bottom line? Self needs to clean house and reload. It’s time to keep a few core leaders: Mason, Graham (really matured), Green, Ellis?, maybe Lucas for experience. I’m not completely sold on Mari. He’s a role player and a great model for work ethic. Svi is a diamond in the rough. I want that kid to stick around, learn, and grow. He needs to work on his shot. He can only get better. I don’t care what Mickelson does at this point. I don’t think he’s going anywhere. He just gambled and lost.

    Now let’s reload with this core mentioned above. Let’s add…Diallo, Brown, and maybe, just maybe Newman. I think Simmons April Fool’s joke was interesting to say the least. Simmons may have ultimately just ruled out UK for Newman. But, he may know that Newman is LSU bound. I think with Oubre declaring just opened wide the door for Brown. If so, we may lose Green. Brown is going to bring what Green failed to bring all year as a sophomore. Lastly, if Selden leaves, it ‘might’ be the chip/domino Self needed to lure Newman. I always thought Newman was waiting to see what Selden would do. This is the ultimate reason for losing Selden. Now, I have no idea what Thorne’s transfer means, if anything. I think he merely gives size and experience, pretty much Black 2.0. So, bottom line to bring in Diallo, Brown, Newman, and maybe Thorne, we’ll have to lose…Oubre(check), Selden(?), and maybe Ellis.

    We have 3 to give? Bragg gets 1, Diallo 1, Brown 1, and if Selden declares, 1, and we wouldn’t have to lose Ellis. But, for the sake of pt, it’s almost imperative that Ellis and Selden leave for Diallo and Newman. If we miss on Newman, I think Ingram might be our sleeping recruit. If we get both Brown and Ingram, Green is guaranteed gone. I doubt it will happen exactly this way, but very possible.

    The Sky is not falling and either way KU will be ok. Always have is and will be fine. We get at least one more top recruit in addition to Bragg, even if it’s Diallo, so be it. If we bring in Thorne, our 5 will be fairly competitve with him and Lucas. Diallo can get 25-30 mins, even with Ellis. Self will work it so that Ellis is a stretch 4 and Diallo is a true 4. We may get to see what some of us have been wanting for Ellis his whole time here as a big 3 (if we miss on Brown or Ingram).

  • TOWNS’ TRANSFORMATION ‘INCREDIBLE’ Karl-Anthony Towns’ high-school coach Bob Hurley: “I didn’t think he could go from shooting 3s to being this dominant around the basket. I want to write John Calipari a note to say this is the most amazing transformation I’ve seen.”

    link text

    Gag me…BTW- Coach Hurley, thanks for the recruiting plug. The check is in the mail. Coach Cal

    This is what makes me sick about college bball. The Hurleys come from a very needy Catholic school that is always in need of money to stay open. Presto…enters John Calipari (“Catholic”?) So, he gets to support his faith (which is great), but hey, it doesn’t hurt to get a little extra help from the Hurleys when it comes to recruits. Folks I’m here to tell you college bball is dirty, dirty, and dirty…Coaches like Bill Self who play by the rules and run a clean program, honest, open, and transparent, get’s screwed.

    And some have the bodacious audacity to question why Self and other deserving coaches can’t get the OADs or the elite of the elite? Here’s why…John Calipari and WWW have the recruiting world in their back pocket and it’s all CLEAN as a baby’s bottom. It’s almost like money laundering, only with recruiting. They clean their trails and cover their details to ignore the NCAA and it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if they have a NCAA sanctions employee on the take. Call me crazy, but I don’t think it’s too far from reality.

  • Banned


    Yea it seems Bragg could be quite the player, but come on he isn’t going to be shooting three’s at KU. At least not under HCBS’s watch? LOL

  • @DoubleDD The Morris Twins shot plenty of 3’s. If he can knock them down, then he will get to fire away. It’s also good for recruiting, because these kids are talking to each other.

  • @DoubleDD We won’t ever see Cliff in a KU uniform again. As for Wayne or Perry, I haven’t seen anything that would make me think they aren’t coming back. Thorne will be a nice rotation guy for us, and maybe Coach will pull off a late coup, as he’s done many times.


    We will know sure enough in the next 8 days.

  • @DoubleDD I think if he can shoot he will be allowed. I thought he could rebound a lot better.

  • @KUSTEVE Totally agree. I can’t imagine Selden or Perry leave. Neither guy has any chance of being a lottery pick or even a first round pick. Even if you think you have met your ceiling why would you leave when you could worst case scenario go undrafted?

    These guys are back: Ellis, Selden, Mason, Devonte, Greene, Svi, Bam Bam, Lucas, Hunter. Looks pretty sweet on the perimter to me. The gaping hole is obviously in the post. UK can’t take all of the McD’s kids that are undeclared. Hopefully we get one of these guys and they end up not being an OAD.

  • @joeloveshawks said:

    Totally agree. I can’t imagine Selden or Perry leave.

    And the funny thing is - both of them are better than someone who IS going to the NBA.

  • @truehawk93

    “Selden needs to leave. He’s digressing for some reason. He needs to review his stock status and if he’s late in the first round, GO. If he’s in the first round go and get picked up somehow. If not, there are a lot of options for his development. If Selden returns, he must return in beast mode with something to prove. I just don’t think a return will do him much good. His fate is pretty much sealed.”

    I hate to say it… but I agree with you.

    I think Wayne was coddled too much at KU. We’ve sort of enabled him to get into a psychological funk similar to what EJ did (except EJ’s was also caused by our coaches and forcing him to PG).

    Wayne will get pushed trying out for NBA teams. He is medium on talent, medium on athleticism… but he has a great body for the league. And if he gets his mind right, he might turn the corner at the next level. On a higher note, Wigs did. Throw him in the river and see if he can swim. He seems to be riding a plateau at Kansas.

    “Here’s why…John Calipari and WWW have the recruiting world in their back pocket and it’s all CLEAN as a baby’s bottom.”

    I really liked your post here. Makes sense. But what doesn’t get answered is how they are able to keep so many 5-star recruits happy sitting on the pine or not producing big numbers or coming back for another year. Imagine if we had kept a player like Oubre on the bench the entire year? The kid would be freaking out and we’d never sign another 5-star recruit. Alexander was a different case. He didn’t show enough for anyone to question why he wasn’t playing.

  • @drgnslayr seriously, some don’t want players to leave early, some want 3-4 year players, and now after 2 years, get rid of them? Wayne loves KU, why wouldn’t he get the chance to improve?

  • @Crimsonorblue22

    I think the question is: “Did Wayne improve this year?” I don’t think he did. Are we going to get another year out of him where he doesn’t show up for 80% of the games? We have a logjam at the 2. Lots of talented guys that need a chance but Self has a promise to Wayne and he’ll keep it.

    Wayne COULD improve this next season. But will he? We’ve thrown those dice before with EJ. The guys that get psyched out would seem to do better if they changed their environment with a fresh start. I wish EJ had transferred out after his sophomore year. Not thinking just for us… but for him.

    I really like Wayne, this is about Wayne. What would be best for him? Maybe even a college transfer might help him.

    I think he needs to go somewhere like WVU. Huggy won’t cut him any slack like Self does. I think it would be great for Wayne. Get him over the plateau he is stuck on. He needs to be pushed and for some reason, he has a complete pass by Self to perform or not perform. It isn’t right. This year… he was given far too much rope to not only hang himself, but also his teammates.

  • @drgnslayr I am not sure that we go to the Title game in 2012 if EJ transferred.

  • @drgnslayr I’m not giving up on him. Svi has a chance to catch up, if he passes Wayne, he’ll get more time. If we get another perimeter player that’s better, competition is good.

  • @joeloveshawks

    We would or we wouldn’t… but I’m talking about the good of EJ. He didn’t end his career well and what is he doing now?

    Anyone know? Playing in Bulgaria?

  • @drgnslayr Ok. I am 100% sure we would not go to the National Title game without EJ in 2012. He had a huge tournament and was a big part of the 6-7 man rotation that somehow won 5 games in March.

    The 2013 season / Michigan game will always hurt our opinion of EJ. But EJ and TT will always be thought of fondly for me based on what they did in 2012 even if they both had pretty lack luster careers the other 3 years they were at KU.

  • @joeloveshawks

    I’m not arguing with you… just saying it is less about us and more about the player (in this instance).

    EJ is probably washing dishes right now. That guy could flat out ball. He is on my all-time favorite list because he sacrificed his future trying to be the PG he never was just for the good of the team.

    Right now… in some restaurant kitchen out there… there is a towel just waiting for Wayne to come use it.

    Wayne can flat out ball, too. But for some reason it ain’t happening here for him.

  • @drgnslayr How many college educated dish washers do you know? lol

  • @Statmachine

    I’m not really hanging out in restaurant kitchens… but I bet there are plenty. Maybe these guys aren’t washing dishes. But unless they are starting their own businesses and finding success through that, they probably aren’t matching the financial success they could have had in basketball. Pretty sad to reach NEAR the mountain top, and then fall down the mountain.

    Right now… Wayne is tumbling down the same mountain EJ did.

    No one else sees that?

    These guys get one shot at college ball… and college ball is where the door opens for pro ball (of various sources).

  • @drgnslayr I don’t hang out in restaurant kitchens either, but I do watch a lot of Guy’s Grocery Games.

    Sorry - slow day at work.

  • I noticed how well Wayne played when his dad sat in the second row. He was a completely different player.

    How do we get him to play like that for 30+ games a year?

    Everybody in here likes our guys. I know I do.

    But if we realistically think we can advance in March… we have to put expectations on players to perform. We needed more out of Wayne this past year. And Wayne needed more out of Wayne if he really wants that NBA shot.

    Unless we can figure out a way to get Wayne to perform like he can when his dad is in row 2… we need to change something and Wayne needs to change something.

    I carry “hope” with me… it usually ends up being my crutch to the reality I wasn’t willing to face.

  • @drgnslayr said:

    How do we get him to play like that for 30+ games a year?

    I guess we bring Pops to all the games.

  • @nuleafjhawk and haircuts

  • @nuleafjhawk

    I’m pretty sure the NCAA keeps watch over that.

  • @drgnslayr uhhhhh… I meant his Dad VOLUNTARILY shows up at every game. Yeah - that’s what I meant.

  • @Crimsonorblue22 I know you’re all gushy over the Uber-dude, but that haircut…

    When you were a kid did you ever have one of those stick ponies? I can’t look at him without thinking about that.

  • @nuleafjhawk

    “Sorry - slow day at work.”

    Ha… I’m enjoying your slow day at work. Keep it up!

  • @drgnslayr Lol - thanks ?

  • @nuleafjhawk

    I’ll help you out…


    Not sure a lot of people in here ever experienced one of these.

  • @truehawk93 Wow “true” I get Cali is a questionable coach in ethics, but Catholic schools are haven for underprivileged kids, and that coach Hurley has done miracles for kids who may be in prison without him. Also, if you look at the stats on cost per student spent by the govt & the Catholic schools, the latter wins as the govt spends 2x-3x more. Yah I don’t like coach Hurley tooting for Cali either, but if that opens Cali’s deep pocket to spread his wealth with those in need, I can’t fault coach Hurley. Because he needs the money for the kids - did you see espunee’s 30/30 on that school & gym? It’s nothing like suburb’s fancy mega million schools. That school is dilapidated it’s pitiful! Hopefully Self will donate some too, if permissible by the NCAA.

  • @nuleafjhawk but, you are an old dude(not really old in years-just really old school)

  • @drgnslayr Thank you!! I was going to look for an image, but I don’t know how to import it anyway. I was hoping a good samaritan would do that!!

  • @Crimsonorblue22 yeah - old in years too! But I try to be immature enough to offset some of that.

  • @nuleafjhawk no you’re not!

  • @Crimsonorblue22 57 in July…

  • @nuleafjhawk that’s not old! You drive a red car, not beige right?

  • @Crimsonorblue22 Used to - 1970 Mustang. Or as I refer to her " My First True Love ".

    Now it’s a dark grey Toyota Camry. I know - but great mileage!! Wait - my wife has a burgundy Jeep - i drive it sometimes…

  • @nuleafjhawk I just remember you saying you were not a beige person.

  • @Crimsonorblue22 My skin’s kinda beige. Other than that …

  • @drgnslayr I would not trade EJ’s 39 point game against Iowa State for anything. What an incredible performance by a player that showed what he was capable of. His clutch shooting carried us to the Title Game in 2012. It was legendary!!!

  • @KansasComet

    I enjoyed that game immensely. Made me wonder if some of those Iowa rednecks second-guessed their decision to call EJ the “N” word.

    I’m just not satisfied with how EJ’s career ended… and I’m not talking about the Michigan game. I’m talking about EJ not getting the right opportunities to move on. I’d like to know today that he is doing well financially and enjoying himself playing ball in a good situation.

    I care about the players AFTER they leave Kansas, too. Sherron is constantly in my thoughts.

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