Another Super Bowl Loss...
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Slayer, I don’t know what you posted 13 years ago when Williams left so I cannot comment on that; however, comparing Self and Williams is like comparing apples and oranges. Williams attended UNC, was an assistant there and was groomed by KU alum Dean Smith to be his successor and other than KU he has not coached anywhere else. All the Jayhawks fans I know knew that Coach Williams was “on loan” form UNC and it became even more apparent after Williams became very successful at KU and showed he could lead a big program. I never blamed coach Williams for leaving, since I knew it was bound to happen, although I have a problem on how the move went through, and for this I blame Dean Smith.
Coach Self attended OSU but got his coaching start at KU under Larry Brown. He was then an Assistant at OSU but was not given the opportunity to be HC so he went to Oral Roberts, Tulsa and Illinois before KU where he got his real big break. Keep in mind that programs like Missouri passed on him and hired Quin Snyder instead. I believe Coach Self remembers this and he is now a loyal and lifetime Jayhawk; if he wanted to leave, he could have done it many time over the last few years but I am convinced he will stay a long time and retire with a number of records, both at KU and nationally.
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Here is one more advantage ISU has over us. The Mayor played at ISU!
Believe it or not, he can communicate his experiences back from his playing days to his players.
Anyone want to guess what he is conveying? RIght… how the goal was ALWAYS about beating Kansas! He never won a Big 8 title either! Mr. Basketball in the State of Iowa couldn’t win them a title!
Is it any wonder that he is able to relate to his players well and get them motivated to beat us?
If we can’t conquer our delusion… we are bound to fall.
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The point I am making is about motivation.
Everyone is on a delusional defense of Self. I’m not attacking Self.
I’m relating the FACT that he did not play ball at Kansas. He can’t pull stories out of his hat to motivate the troops and relate it to Kansas… except maybe a bit under Brown.
But sometimes it takes punching people in the gut to shake them from their delusion.
PEPSI CHALLENGE:
“Anyone in here saying Self isn’t a Cowboy? Want to place a little wager? If Self had to choose and could only be ONE… a Cowboy or a Jayhawk… and it didn’t effect his paycheck or lifestyle… anyone want to bet what he would pick?”
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PEPSI CHALLENGE:
“Anyone in here saying Self isn’t a Cowboy? Want to place a little wager? If Self had to choose and could only be ONE… a Cowboy or a Jayhawk… and it didn’t effect his paycheck or lifestyle… anyone want to bet what he would pick?”
I will take that bet any day of the week and twice on Sunday. If Coach Self wanted to go back to OSU he could have done any time in the past. If after the Tournament Coach Self hints he is interested in going to OSU, they would dump Travis Ford faster than a vacuum-aided toilet can flush a small turd and up his salary by at least 50%, and I would not be surprised if T-Boone doubles his salary. So in answer to your challenge, coach Self is in all likelihood making less at KU that he would at OSU…so this leaves the lifestyle part and the test will be when Tyler graduates, right?
What do you want to wager? A public retraction in this forum would be good enough for me…but we can go higher…
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@drgnslayr “The point I’m making is about motivation. Everyone is on a delusional defense of Self”
In my original response to you, I stated I agreed with HEM that Self’s coaching has hurt us since the TT game, so I’m not defending his coaching. What I disagree with you about is motivation and legacy. I’m not a research guy so I don’t know the answer to this question, but I would ask- “How many coaches who have won the NC went to the schools they coached?” I doubt that there have been that many, but those who won and didn’t go to that school apparently were able to motivate their players well enough to win. He doesn’t have to pull stories out of his hat about KU to motivate his players. That only wins games in the movies…“let’s win one for the Gippper.” Sure motivation is important, but so is strategy and in-game adjusting, and a host of other factors.
I’m just saying Self has his faults, but being from Oklahoma is not one of them. And as far as Self choosing to be a Cowboy or a Jayhawk, if my failing memory serves me correctly, Okie State and T Boone Pickens made a strong offer to Self after KU won the NC to get him to come back to OSU, and Self said, “Thanks, but no thanks. I’m happy being a Jayhawk now.”
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@drgnslayr I always follow your post, and I have always enjoyed your analysis and being levelheaded. But you are making some pretty bold statements.
I know you want to focus on motivation, but as you can tell, these boards have a life of their own!
You say we are being delusional self defenders and to take away our “Jayhawk emotion”. But you seem to still be steamed about last nights game. You even said “we are doomed”.
I am actually under the current belief that we are on borrowed time with Self before he heads to the NBA. There would be no bashing on Self for him doing that from me.
Your emotions are running so high that you believe caps will get your point across. We are all aware that Self went to OSU, but to say Self’s players are suffering because of where he went to college 30 years ago is simply not true. You could point out many mistakes Self has made to why his players aren’t “motivated” or playing at a high enough level. None of which include him being a Cowboy at heart. There will always be a special place in Self’s heart for OSU obviously, but come one. We are not doomed, Self is a true Jayhawk, and we are in a great position.
I wonder if you were saying this claims in 08 and 2012? I might have my “Jayhawk emotions” going, but I believe you have your “pissed about the last couple years” emotions coming out in full force.
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@drgnslayr could you possibly be suffering from postpartum depression? Jk I’m trying not to make fun of you, I am trying to picture Hoiberg gathered around transfers telling them about old ISU memories. I can’t do it!
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I’m not going to win this argument.
So I"ve contacted Wiki to change their story about Self.
He did play at Kansas.
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“You even said “we are doomed”.”
We’ve been living under the delusional KU cloud for years. We don’t feel like we have to be prepared for March. I can’t even get anyone in here to understand what a chip is.
We are on the Calipari plan… 100%. And I’ll project we need 10 McDs AA before we win our next NC!
Attitude makes a big difference in basketball. Anyone think we had the better attitude yesterday? Really?
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@drgnslayr Sorry but you can’t caterogize all of us under what you suppose we are as fans.
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Slayer, I believe you are making our point. You say that he should hire someone like Sherron that has played here 4 years and has lived the KU experience. Coach Self has been at KU what? 13 years? Don’t you think that he would have a lot more stories to tell after 13 years of 24/7 KU basketball than Sherron would after 4 years as a student/player? I certainly think so.
Quick question that someone already asked…how many coaches that won the NCAA title as coaches played at that school?
BTW, and FWIW I did accept your challenge…
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@drgnslayr This team is too young and too injured to make it further than the first or second game this season.
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“I can’t even get anyone in here to understand what a chip is.”
Yikes. I hope this isn’t an slight to the intelligence of other posters on this board. If so, you are better than that.
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The trick is to hire and retain the best guy available. Part of that could be being a legacy, like Danny, but hiring the ultimate legacy in Dick Harp guarantied no success.
FWIW, Forest Allen was from CMSU, if I recall correctly.
And Eddie could not getter done at OSU.
We lucked out gigantic with Self.
He just keeps getting better and he is in a tight spot not having a b2b 5, or a rim protector the same year someone apparently decided to 9-10 stack Nike programs and assign them 1 seeds outside their regions apparently to maximize their likelihood of keeping adidas programs out of the FF.
Regarding Roy, he could never have won a ring at KU, because he promised to recruit the wrong half of the country. Using the recruits of someone recruiting the whole country, plus himself recruiting the whole country, he quickly won two rings as he would have at KU.
Self WILL leave KU sooner or later, by retirement, or for a new challenge–nothing odd about that. Same with a legacy.
It would be nice to see a legacy, but not if he were not the best candidate.
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This is my last post on this subject.
All I can say is I hope the Kansas coaching staff is smart enough to bring in someone who can explain the pain of 66-65 because none of our coaches were Kansas players or fans when we took one in the head at the Battle of New Orleans.
It matters to real Jayhawks. Either you grew up with that or you didn’t. Self didn’t. You want to know why I"m barking up this tree… does it make sense now?
There is plenty to build motivation for this game if it comes to be and I bet we aren’t even clued in on it.
I bet WSU will play all the old tapes and dig up plenty of old skeletons to make sure their troops are ready.
I will never forgive Self if he doesn’t prepare “balls to the wall” for this game. No excuses allowed. F@%# guys being hurt.
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@drgnslayr That is an aspect of Self’s coaching that I have long wondered about. What methods does he employ to motivate and inspire his team? That is definitely a question that I would like answered.
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@drgnslayr I’m not terribly interested in an argument but what you’re saying is that if your ancestors didn’t live in Lawrence at the time of Quantrill’s raid then you can’t really understand how Kansas feels about Missouri.
One question. Did someone have to start or play a lot or simply be a walk on as a Jayhawk to understand what it’s like to be a real Jayhawk? Does the next coach have to have eaten a Joe’s doughnut?
If a future coach has to grow up a KU fan or be a KU player then things look bleak down the road since the demographics aren’t really that good.
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@drgnslayr I’m ready for Mark Turgeon whenever Bill decides to retire or move on.
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@drgnslayr Great thread and posts! Just have to disagree on one point–Roy would have eventually won a ring at Kansas. But it would’ve taken about 30 years, just like it did for Dean at North Carolina. But I guess that pretty much backs up your point anyway.
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@drgnslayr said:
All I’m saying is the FACT that Self went to school at OSU… and I wish he had gone to school at KU, so he could relate more motivational stories to his troops.
I disagree too, not with the FACT that Self went to OSU and that you wish he’d gone to KU, but with the ASSUMPTION that it would necessarily make him a better motivator. Like a bunch of Bill’s stories of his heroics from the glory days of short shorts is going to motivate these young guys? Hell, have Greg Gurley give them that kind of pep talk before each game then.
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I don’t think Self needed to be a KU alum to motivate his guys. Most of the players that come to KU are not native Kansans. They rarely grow up around the rivalries and stories about KU’s history. That’s just the facts of being a strong basketball program in a state that doesn’t produce a lot of elite basketball talent.
As a result, KU rarely gets any players that are lifelong KU fans. Of the scholarship guys, I would say only Perry is a lifelong fan. But that doesn’t keep those guys from working hard.
Think about some of the great KU players of the last 15-20 years. Probably only Wayne Simien was a lifelong KU fan. Brandon Rush wasn’t. It’s doubtful that Mario Chalmers was. Collison, Hinrich, Miles, Gooden, Robinson, Morris twins… the list goes on - and probably none of them were KU fans like most of us are. We are dependent on transplants because there just isn’t enough elite talent within our borders to keep us at the top. In that way, maybe Self doesn’t understand the history of being a KU lifer, but maybe he relates better to the players since most of them are not lifers, either.
As for whether the Big XII title game was ISU’s Super Bowl, I honestly don’t think so. Iowa State has designs on a Final Four. Under Hoiberg they have risen to being one of the better teams in the country, and I think they are looking at things as a way of getting to the Final Four. I think they knew a win could move them up a seed line, or improve their position among the 3’s. I think that, more than anything else, was motivation to them - a chance to move up in their quest to get to the Final Four.
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Two life time KU fans that came to play for KU, Conner Frankamp and Zach Peters did not work out well…on the other hand, the pair from Iowa, Collison and Hinrich worked out great.
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@drgnslayr Hi slayer, Sorry I’m late to the discussion on this one. It’s a great to experience both sides of the coin. Champs that are the ones to beat vs nobodies that make themselves champs. I’ve been in both camps too. They are both great, but for me being a nobody team that wins it all is just a tad sweeter.
As for Self, I think he has been a Jayhawk more than a Cowboy for a long time.
I think the players are motivated as well, but I don’t know that ALL of them see these match-ups with a burning desire to beat our foes the way our foes have a burning desire to knock us off our perch.
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I know I said I wouldn’t post again in here… sorry about that!
This entire thread was brought about from my fear after we were smashed by ISU in the second half.
My mind went directly to a WSU-KU match up. I knew this game was going to be set up.
I immediately panicked. Not because we may not have the right team to win. I feel we do have the right team. But I was blindsided by our collapse in that second half. I thought we were done with collapses.
WSU plays tough, disciplined ball. If we have one of our episodes in this game, we’ll not only lose, but potentially get blown out.
I simply can’t accept that!
I can tell you right now. If that happens, I’m going to rip Self a new backside! There is no excuse for having 4 McDs AAs and getting blown out by a bunch of juco players. ISU was the wake up call for me. It can happen.
If we get blown out our players better do more than limp off that court! They better be hauled off in a hearse!
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@drgnslayr “ISU was the wake up call for me. It can happen.”
You were probably in denial for most of the season. I think my wake up call happened at the Temple game.
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Probably so… but what got me this weekend was the thought that we could take a nationally-viewed beating from the Shockers! I never had that thought after the Kentucky game, or Temple game.
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Well good thing Gregg Marshall didn’t play ball at WSU!!!
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He already has enlisted Antoine Carr, The “X-man” and several other past greats to help inspire his troops.
It wouldn’t surprise me if he digs up Mike Jones, too. God… I can still remember that shot as he faded back into the bench!
Lutz didn’t waste any time:
At least he nailed one paragraph:
“The last time WSU and KU met in the regular season, though – back on Jan. 6, 1993 – Kansas won 103-54 in Allen Fieldhouse. As far as I know, there are no T-shirts commemorating that game.”
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As I have said before, you must have been fun to play with.
P.S.: And you ARE absolutely right about the need for us to Savage the Shockers!!! Injuries or no injuries. Two go in. One comes out.
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@drgnslayr think I posted that
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I am thinking of a movie. “Two men enter, one man leaves…”
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Thanks 22. Since I quoted “man” I think you took that as I meant it as in competition period. I have a boy and a girl competing in high school at a very competitive level here in Texas. It is nice that her teams get pretty much equal coverage.
Anyway RCJH.
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@JayhawkRock78 So, Omaha will be the Thunder Dome?! Tina Turner singing the National Anthem - or RCJH?!
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@DCHawker Actually Omaha is one of many-but I just hope KU travels well. Those ISU folks stormed KC. KU can expect the same of WSU fans.
As far as Thunderdome one thing I liked as a Track and Field athlete. We both know our best marks to date, and we squared off for that day.
Time and distance (or height). Mano E Mano. Here is my best- beat it or lose. No referees - time or distance rules.
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Self is a Jayhawk!
I felt the need to share my adrenaline!
Thanks diehards!
You guys rock!
Guess I’m not bad as a motivator!
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#Seven teams that can win the NCAA tournament and two that can’t
By Jeff Eisenberg
10 hours ago
The Dagger
Since we’re talking about ISU and KU here, guess which team Mr Eisenberg thinks can win it all and which one can’t ?
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@nuleafjhawk With all these media things talking us down, if I am on the team, i will bust my everything to see UK at the E8!
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http://www.sbnation.com/2015/3/16/8223115/morris-twins-video-interview-profile
Interesting piece on the twins. In it Self talks about motivating them so I felt like it fit here.
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I hope our guys are reading everything out there. I hope they are as pissed off as I am!
Too many have us not making it through the first weekend.
And if we advance… none has us challenging Kentucky.
Great… let’s get pissed off and go kick some tail!
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@drgnslayr Amen brother! If all these analysts picking against them doesn’t motivate them, I’m not sure what will.
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@drgnslayr Do you think it’s possible for this team to play pissed? I haven’t seen it yet this year!
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@drgnslayr I am all in with you. Why an outright champ of Big 12 suddenly is so weak? Isn’t that we won the toughest conference? Heck, why can’t KU and ISU play Game 4 for the NC? We are legit!
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@benshawks08 loved this!! Double the fun and double the trouble!
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This put a smile on my face this morning:
“what potentially lies ahead of us could be the most talked about game in the state of Kansas in many years,” Self added.”
Okay… he gets it!
