Taking a deep breath after KU-UK debacle

  • Time to pause and reflect before rushing to make predictions – such as the fate of our season or our B12 title streak or our NCAA appearance streak – based on a small data set.

    Still, such a historically poor performance begs so many questions:

    Is Kentucky really that good? Are we really that bad?

    Can anyone other than Kentucky beat Kentucky? Is Calipari a better coach than Self?

    Which B12 teams would play Kentucky closer than 32 points? (Texas? Iowa State? Oklahoma?)

    Was Frankamp missed? Tharpe?

    True or False: UNLV 1991 < Kentucky 2014

    Did KU ever finish a game with a lower FG%? Did Roy ever lose by 32 or more?

    What needs more repetition:

    • Disenchanted fans saying “I will not give up on this team”, or
    • team free throws in practice?

  • Analytically, same problem finishing against length as vs Stanford.

    2nd issue, as Self pointed out at halftime: “our guards are penetrating to score, instead they should be penetrating to draw the D & then dish”

    I’ll never believe for a minute that Frankamp would have done anything against KY. Frankamp, to put it bluntly: didnt do squat last year (do I REALLY care about some made-3s in the loss that killed our season (Stanford)? Nope. And Mr. Frankamp was more concerned about himself than he was about THIS team or this Univ.

    Just tip our hat to what Calipari has put together, there is NO other team in college ball like them, with that much length coupled with that much athleticism. And they have 4+ guys with Final4 experience.

    I’m not really down on our guys…did anyone see the Self’s Reaction clip on natl espn? He summed it up perfectly: we werent running our offense, and KY played great D and hustled for rbds. I tip my hat to KY because analytically they deserved to win this game, they were unselfish.

    We have a lot to learn as a team, and a 30+ point royal Blue beatin’ will serve as a major motivator pretty much the whole season. Tonight, we were the AAU team, not KY. And there is NO shame in losing to a fellow royalty program (of this KY team’s calibre). If we got blown out by a midmajor, then I’d be seriously alarmed, but not by this.

    God help KU’s next opponents…

  • Banned

    @bskeet no KU isn’t that bad and yes UK is that good. No Cal isn’t a better coach than Self. A guy off the street could coach this UK team.

    Think of it in these terms an NBA team couldn’t assemble such talent with the salary cap. UK put a team on the court that is taller than any team in the NBA. I don’t want to say this but it’s obvious. NOBODY is beating this UK team. Nobody. If this team loses a game it’s because of Coach Cal.

    However I have hope. Many championships have been won with one or two players. I know neither SVI or Oubre had great games, but something about those two stuck out to me as this massacre unfolded. I can’t put my finger on it, but it was something about those two? Svi seemed able to find his shot from three land even tho the shots weren’t falling. Oubre for a split second seemed to know how to attack the big boys in the paint.

    Maybe I’m reaching in my thoughts but something about them said they could take over in game like this. However they are so young.

  • They are not nearly as good and we are not nearly as bad. At this point of the year, the lights were too bright for us. Our shooting was horrible. That’s it. Our junior leaders folded. Our big men sat the bench. We shot the ball terribly. We did not deserve to play in this game, and Coach Self has plenty of teach material from the game tape.

    Coach Cal made an excellent point in his post game interview, when he asked how many kids of this caliber would give up minutes for the good of the team? (Frankamp)

    We are not that bad, we need to shoot much better and stop giving up so many put backs. Coach Self will get this team together.

    Most embarrassing point of the game was when Perry Ellis grabbed a rebound and dribbled out of the paint. Also, Selden passed the ball to absolutely no one, twice! Hopefully shots will start to fall, and we will show some confidence on the court. Don’t know who the leaders of this ball are at this point.

  • Am sad but not thinking that there isn’t a way to get things back on track. I know Coach has a lot of ammunition now for teaching/motivation and he is pretty darn good about getting them in sync. UK has the pressure now and we will see how they handle the hype. We on the other hand must have a leader on the floor and Mason needs to learn how to pass the ####### ball. Wake up call for everyone.

  • @KansasComet said:

    Coach Cal made an excellent point in his post game interview, when he asked how many kids of this caliber would give up minutes for the good of the team? (Frankamp)

    That’s a really good point.

  • @DoubleDD

    “@bskeet no KU isn’t that bad and yes UK is that good. No Cal isn’t a better coach than Self. A guy off the street could coach this UK team”

    You have to be kidding. Give Cal his credit. He is doing what Self dreams of doing. Getting the elite talent to buy into a system. Losing to Robert Morris was the best thing that could ever happen to Kentucky. He is able to point to that season and say “regardless of how talented you are, you still have to play as a team.”

    In six years Cal has 3 final fours, and two trips to the NC game. Self has not even accomplished that in 12 years at Kansas. Until the numbers play out differently, Cal is every bit of the Coach Self is when it comes to winning games. Do you want to question his character, and compare who the better ‘person’ is? That’s fine. But with the coaching, the proof is in the pudding. I still want Self at Kansas because I believe in how much he improves the person; and that is more important to me than wins and losses and National Championships. But for most people at this level, it is about winning.

    As far as the game goes, I don’t think there is much to say. Kentucky is a better team, with superior individuals. And they were better coached last night. Self didn’t make any adjustments. I don’t know that making adjustments would have mattered anyway, unless the ball started going through the net from deep.

    The development of Devonte, Svi, & Oubre will determine how successful of a season the Hawks have. As long as Mason is running the point, I don’t see this team improving much.

  • I don’t believe we are that bad, but at the same time we aren’t that good either. I’m sure we we will get better but by how much. We just don’t have the size to match up with teams who have legit post players. Texas will provide the same problem we had last night.

    The most alarming problem I saw from the players standpoint was rebounding. 2nd chance points were killer, I saw Poythress get a rebound with one hand off a missed FT, just unacceptable effort was on display. It’s a great teaching moment for Self to show just how important rebounding the ball is.

    Now I also thought from a coaching standpoint that it was about as poor as could be. Re-invent the wheel Self. The book is out on how to Guard you, and how to attack you.

  • @Blown

    I agree with you 100%. Many posters grossly underestimate Calipari based solely on the slimy image people other than UK fans see; however if you underestimate him, you do it at your own risk. Yes, he has better and more experienced personnel, but I have to admit that his platooning worked rather well last nigh, and he plainly out-coached coach Self.

  • @Blown-Swish !! Mason looked like last year when he drove the paint. That in itself exemplifies the need for superior play at the point. Face it, Cal has a lot of horses that clearly played together as a team & like @KansasComet said the lights were just to bright for our yearling deer in the headlights. This will definitely change going forward. Also, quite welcome to hear your voice back again. Rock Chalk !!

  • @globaljaybird It’s pretty hard to not have 1 assist in 30+ minutes, but Frank managed to do it. 1 for 10 shooting…ouch. In fairness to Frank, I openly wonder if our poor shot selection from our guards has something to do with Coach’s aversion to running set plays. Because … we have been dealing with the same issue since Sherron’s senior year, imo. I’m certainly no basketball expert, and there are many other Kubuckets posters who know far more about basketball than me, but it appears having no offensive structure leads to our point guards rushing head first into trouble A LOT. Whether it was Sherron’s senior season, Tyshawn, EJ, Naadir, and now Frank, this has become a very large elephant in the room with our team. I’d like to hear from the x an o guys on this: am I off base?

  • @Blown said:

    As far as the game goes, I don’t think there is much to say. Kentucky is a better team, with superior individuals. And they were better coached last night. Self didn’t make any adjustments. I don’t know that making adjustments would have mattered anyway, unless the ball started going through the net from deep.

    I think the thing that I’m ruminating most on is how far from the norm that game was. In the last 10-20 years, we’ve lost a few games by 10 points… We’ve trailed a team by 20 or even 25 in a game and then closed it up a bit… But this game deviated FAR from the norm. This was a beatdown that did not resemble any Kansas team in a long, long time.

    Back in the day, our team was said to have “put on a clinic” when we trounced another team. Last night, I feel like we were the one in the clinic. I sure hope this team (coaches included) learns fast.

  • @bskeet worst beat in Lawrence ever for Self. 4th worst in KU history.

  • I still think we are in for a great season!

    I am no longer in a state of delusion in regards to us possibly beating Kentucky. But we will battle for a B12 title, and hopefully we will advance far in March. There is always possibilities for a NC, even if it is slight.

    I hope the guys take this lump with dignity and just fight that much harder and become a better team!


    “This was a beatdown that did not resemble any Kansas team in a long, long time.”

    I think we must give Kentucky a lot of the credit. We are young, short, and we missed a boat load of FTs and didn’t play great, but the guys also showed a base level of composure while being completely disemboweled by the Wildcats.

    And I know Self could have approached this game differently where the outcome might have been closer. But I really don’t see a way for him to coach us to victory on this one. I thought there was a way… but it would only happen if Kentucky beat themselves.

    I applaud our players. That was an impossible game and even though the outcome stunk… they put out plenty of effort and heart in that discouraging loss.

  • @drgnslayr I’m with you on the heart and effort… although some may say the effort was still not enough and that Kentucky had more ‘want-to’ and out-hustled us.

    At this point, we’ll have to wait a bit to know whether this was a confidence destroyer and we spiral down… or if this was a wake-up call that motivates us to rise up.

    If I had to pick a pivotal game to watch to know who we are, it would be the Utah game.

  • Since the 2012 final, which we lost, how many signature wins do we even have? We beat Duke last year, but then proceeded to lose 10 or 11 games including blowouts at WV, Florida and an embarrassing NCAA loss, not to mention the Bahamas failed mission and getting manhandled on our home floor by San Diego State. The year before Michigan stands out as another embarrassing loss, blowing a big lead. TCU that year stands out as one of the worst KU games in recent decades.

    And now we have the year started off with a 40 point effort. When I decided enough was enough and turned it off, we had 35 points and there was over 10 minutes left. Imagine my chagrin when I woke up and saw we scored 5 points the rest of the way.

    Or another way to put it is the announcer said “I don’t think I’ve ever seen a team score their first points of a half on a 1-1 FT.”

    I’m a pessimist by nature and I just don’t see how this team will really make an impact nationally after this. That being said this is the toughest team on our schedule by far so we will still win a lot of games. And maybe over the course of those lots of games we will gain some confidence and be ready to make some noise come March. But right now I fear the only noise in March we’ll hear is all of us whimpering.

  • @wissoxfan83 Chin up big guy-this is KANSAS. If the glass is half empty then the glass may just be too damn big. Ya think ?!

  • For me, the most disheartening part of the loss was the lack of fundamentals that contributed to the lopsided score. I don’t like to invoke baseball on a KU basketball board, but the Royals’ success this season was in great part to consistency on three fronts: solid starting pitching, airtight defense and a lock down bullpen. Most people understood that those three things HAD to be there almost every game to give the offense a chance to get that timely hit, which would ultimately produce a “W”.

    For KU to pull off a win against a team like UK, missed blockout assignments on errant free throws cannot happen. 15-27 from the line cannot happen. Things as “simple” as drive and dish and hustle plays have to be there. Do I think that being fundamentally sound would have altered the outcome? Probably not. UK’s talent and size are off the charts and we didn’t shoot particularly well. And the latter is probably due to the former. However, the fundamentals simply HAVE to be there if this team is going to have a chance at winning a game like that.

    That said, champions are not crowned in November as the old cliche goes and I hope the guys use this as motivation to work even harder. They still have a chance to reach all the goals they’ve set for themselves this season.

  • @KUSTEVE Yeah, Bill’s offense sucks.

  • @KUinLA I didn’t say our offense sucks. I said our point guard play has left something to be desired.

  • @globaljaybird Lawrence???

  • @JayhawkRock78 Will clarify. Worst beatdown for Bill since hes been in Lawrence. Was posting from the iphone from the Drs ofc & was hurried up by the nurse. Think its 4th worst in KU history-read that but is a stat I don’t care to verify. Am not a glutton for punishment… now food & drink? More my style.

  • @ralster - I’m sure last night was Jack Harry’s favorite newscast. Larry Brown said that both of the platoons could be ranked number 1 and both could probably win a National Championship. Kentucky will be beaten when they play a good zone team and have a night like they did against Buffalo. Speaking of Mid-Majors, UMKC will be going to the Dance this year for the first time in the weak WAC conference, They were just a better team than Missouri and they were Kicking K-State by 11 points before the half and within two baskets with minutes to go. I hope Bill got his Vodka last night.th.jpg

  • @globaljaybird Got it. I agree-why would I want to go looking for bad performances with this so fresh on my mind. Lucky for me I was recording it and changed channels at half. I looked at my iPad for score updates. I didn’t see anything to tempt me to look at the game again and eventually quit looking for the score altogether.

  • @JayhawkRock78 I recorded it as well (after about the first 12 minutes) and enjoyed catching up on my Buying Alaska shows. I used to get worked up and throw stuff and send my blood pressure through the roof, now I realize that I don’t HAVE to watch a beatdown and just turn the channel.

  • I hear you. I don’t throw stuff but I yell at the TV. Seems we record just about all the KU or KSU stuff cause we are busy with kids activities. If we are watching live and they get off to a bad start I watch something else and check it out later. Sometimes its time to get back in the game-other times it is best not to watch. Sure helps my mood at times.

  • @JayhawkRock78

    My blood pressure is inversely related to our score. Our score was really low last night. My blood pressure was so high I think I was floating on the ceiling like a helium balloon.

    I don’t throw stuff, but I say plenty, and sometimes scream. I understand why many people call TV a “stupid box”… because I look really stupid during Jayhawk games. I’m usually asked politely why I’m screaming at pixels. After the first time the polite question is not so polite.

    I never want to be in public during a game. Anything could happen, and if we aren’t playing well someone will surely see me suffering and add to it.

  • @DoubleDD I had exactly the same feeling when Svi and Oubre were in there. That seemed like the only time we could do anything…when they could get to the lane, or hit the 3. I wanted to see more of them. It gives me confidence that we will continue to get much better (even forgetting about this game) as the season continues.

  • Banned

    @Blown Sorry I disagree. Anybody can coach that UK team. The Robert Morris loss means nothing, as many of these kids weren’t there to experience that loss or season.

    UK has talent that I’m not even sure the NBA could match. In fact UK couldn’t have this team in the NBA as there is a Salary cap. If you want to believe that Cal is the greatest coach of all time then knock yourself out. There was no coaching in that game. That was taller and greater athletes taking it to another team.

    The only way UK loses with this team is if Cal doesn’t coach. Give this UK team to HCBS and I’d bet every thing I own that he goes undefeated.

  • Relax, it’s not like we just got eliminated in the first round of the NIT by Robert Morris. This we will overcome. I watched the whole game last night, did not turn the channel or turn off the television. I can’t turn my back on the team, not wired that way. Probably why I enjoy every victory and every accomplishment. We are Kansas, and I am very proud. Everyone including the fans, the players, and the coaches need to buckle up and get ready for the ride. Go Jayhawks!

  • @KansasComet nice!!!

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