Hesela sounds ready to launch rockets
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The things I’ve seen have not so much been pro Hamas but instead trying to also hold Israel accountable for the atrocities they’ve committed as well. The bombing of the hospitals being the thing I’ve seen brought up most. Saying Israel shouldn’t bomb hospitals and should be held accountable for or at least not praised for what is clearly a war crime is very different than saying Hamas is good and has done no wrong in the situation. More than one thing can be true and in situations like this, is almost a guarantee that both sides have committed evil acts. That is not to say those evil acts are equivalent. But the response to a war crime is not commit a war crime right back.
Sounds like you may be seeing different reports and accounts than I am though.
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The failure to correct the Israel Bombed a Hospital and Killed 500 Civilians story is a national scandal. And ya know, maybe Hamas shouldn’t use hospitals to store and deploy weapons.
The IDF is going to inflict significant casualties on its own forces to surgically take out Hamas, who doesn’t follow any rules of war. The IDF could level Gaza in a few days, which would accomplish a goal. But instead they’re going to send their own soldiers to their graves to do what Hamas is too cowardly to do.
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@FarmerJayhawk I’m not arguing Hamas is good but also not going to give IDF a pat on the back for not leveling an entire city. The ability to commit an even more atrocious war crime does not excuse the committing of a lesser one either.
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@benshawks08 I’m very glad the US media is holding the Israelis to such a high standard they even accuse them of committing fake war crimes. No other country is held to the standard of, oh you had over 1000 innocent civilians brutally murdered, raped, and tortured for like… no reason other than racism? Cool, now if you trip up once it’s off to The Hague
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@benshawks08 said in Hesela sounds ready to launch rockets:
The things I’ve seen have not so much been pro Hamas but instead trying to also hold Israel accountable for the atrocities they’ve committed as well. The bombing of the hospitals being the thing I’ve seen brought up most. Saying Israel shouldn’t bomb hospitals and should be held accountable for or at least not praised for what is clearly a war crime is very different than saying Hamas is good and has done no wrong in the situation. More than one thing can be true and in situations like this, is almost a guarantee that both sides have committed evil acts. That is not to say those evil acts are equivalent. But the response to a war crime is not commit a war crime right back.
Sounds like you may be seeing different reports and accounts than I am though.
It was pointed out/proven that the bombing the rocket that hit that hospital was not from Israel -it was Hamasthat mis fired saying if it came from a Israel incoming there would of ben a huge crater, there has been no war crimes committed by Israel
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Hesela sounds ready to launch rockets:
The failure to correct the Israel Bombed a Hospital and Killed 500 Civilians story is a national scandal. And ya know, maybe Hamas shouldn’t use hospitals to store and deploy weapons.
The IDF is going to inflict significant casualties on its own forces to surgically take out Hamas, who doesn’t follow any rules of war. The IDF could level Gaza in a few days, which would accomplish a goal. But instead they’re going to send their own soldiers to their graves to do what Hamas is too cowardly to do.
It is going to be quite the challenge when ground forces go in they have to undertake the major challenge of hand to hand combat in like they said almost 300 miles of underground tunnels that Hemas cowers in. The swifter Israel can go in and take these idiots out- -the better we will be. - -Now being reported that goes against what was being said what was being said over the weekend that our president has said he haas not tried to get Israel to restrain from launching it’s invasion.
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https://barackobama.medium.com/my-statement-on-israel-and-gaza-a6c397f09a30
Don’t agree with everything in here but it’s sentiment is pretty much the same as what I feel.
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Ben Rhodes: always a good read if you’re feeling super dumb that day and want a big ole pick me up https://x.com/jawillick/status/1716544960642633833?s=46&t=c0LiaNrxev6XfT7LIH8dAQ
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“There’s only one solution” it’s haunting. https://x.com/theeliklein/status/1716602651314364567?s=46&t=c0LiaNrxev6XfT7LIH8dAQ
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there is a lot of people pushing stronger reaction to what’s going on.- -14 attacks on US military bases in the last week. - -We al know where these attacks are coming from. Hemas is backed by Iran - - Hesbula is backed by Iran, Iran is the one stepping up the attacks - -what was our response? - -verbal - -DON’T, this is being said as US showing a weakness and these guys are recognizing this and are wanting to take advantage.
People are saying we need a stronger response take stronger action. -cut off the oil whatever it takes. - We simply can’t just keep saying Don’t , Don.t Don’t when these atrocities keep happening. We have Russia, & Chin meeting they also have interest now thinking this is the time that the US is weak. -Why ? - Because our only response is DON’T China has moved more ships into the area -It’s time to show Iran why we are the power in the West - Iran - -you don’t understand Verbal ? - -you don’t understand English - -well let me say , you don’t want to wake a giant Bear. If we are not care this could very easily go from a regional conflict - - to a Global war.
We have Jewish younger people right here on our home land trying to improve their lives, gee a degree at College Campus and they can’t even do that. They have to fear for their lives here against idiots that are so mis informed - willing to be half not even sure why they are protesting all they know it’s a way to miss class. The Jewish people have to worry about hate crimes right here - - -that’s fricken sad makes our Nation look bad.
We hear countless accounts from people who were there on October 7th when loved ones were taken in he next room. w have seen & heard of how these sick F - - - run knives through babies chest - - raping women - -beheading elderly -and laughing about it. -these are cowards hiding behind the hostages. We have heard interviews from a couple of elderly women after they were freed talking about how they were treated, Talked about being beaten just gruesom. Then you have these College kids protesting against Israel chanting kill the jews- -kill the jews – some want to back these shit - -Are you fricken nuts ?
They said out of the White House that we are very , very , very worrie about this getting out of hand - -Really ? - -it’s alredy out of hand - -enough talk time to step up - -Do something
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This is a tragic situation for all the civilians on both sides that are suffering. To put it in context about 1500 israelis died and 6000 palestians have died since then. What was done is unforgivable and a stop must be put to it but we need to limit human suffering across the board.
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One of Hamas’s key strategies is to spread disinformation about casualties to run out the clock on Israel. Perfect example was the hospital strike. About 4 seconds after they hit their own hospital they had a very precise casualty count, which on its face was ridiculous. That didn’t stop the UN and other clown shoes from accusing Israel of everything but the Holocaust (because a lot of UN membership denies it happened).
Hamas knows it’s a sitting duck behind their hostages and Palestinian human shields if Israel chooses to carry out a serious invasion. To avoid near term destruction they have to take advantage of gullible organizations who’ll take their accounts at face value.
War is hell and because of Hamas’s choices in waging this war, many, many civilians will die unless Israel unilaterally stands down. But they have every right to occupy Gaza and rip Hamas out root and branch.
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6000 bombs a week from Israel. About how many bombs the US dropped on Afghanistan and Iran in a MONTH at the peak of the bombings. Not sure how you underestimate the death toll from something like that. The Gaza Strip is significantly smaller than those countries. Many more bombs in a much smaller area means more people die. And bombs don’t tend to give a shit if you are innocent or not.
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@benshawks08 you can bet Hamas will inflate it to the moon. Kirby was out the other day saying pretty much yeah the Gaza Health Ministry figures are totally made up.
Yep, Gaza City is one of the most densely populated places on the plant. Will make any significant military operation very complicated and likely result in innocent casualties because Hamas refuses to not commit war crimes every day by using human shields. It’s all by design. It’ll win the PR campaign (already has, tbh) but international law favors the Israelis. Civilian casualties as a result of Hamas flagrantly violating the law of war at every turn are on them. Including the estimated 7000 rockets they’ve fired into Israel since the massacre.
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@benshawks08 Israel is at war with a group pledged to the extinction of Jews, a group hiding in a population that harbors it and that refuses to accept Israel’s right to even exist, a group that butchered hundreds of Israelis while laughing and sending proud videos back home.
Exactly how is Israel supposed to wage such a war?
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Hesela sounds ready to launch rockets:
One of Hamas’s key strategies is to spread disinformation about casualties to run out the clock on Israel. Perfect example was the hospital strike. About 4 seconds after they hit their own hospital they had a very precise casualty count, which on its face was ridiculous. That didn’t stop the UN and other clown shoes from accusing Israel of everything but the Holocaust (because a lot of UN membership denies it happened).
Hamas knows it’s a sitting duck behind their hostages and Palestinian human shields if Israel chooses to carry out a serious invasion. To avoid near term destruction they have to take advantage of gullible organizations who’ll take their accounts at face value.
War is hell and because of Hamas’s choices in waging this war, many, many civilians will die unless Israel unilaterally stands down. But they have every right to occupy Gaza and rip Hamas out root and branch.
Israel WILL NOT stand down , nor would I expect them to. - People know if and when they invade Gaza their is going to be many injuries, and death. It’s a cold hard fact of War , some things are inevitable
They have done things trying ways to get citizens out of Gaza, there is no way they can go in without injuries. Gaza is so heavily populated there is just no way to do what the need to do without causalities. -Israel will suffer massive causalities themselves- - -their soldiers will lose their lives. Hamas has to be stopped and this is exactly what Israel wants to do.
Israel has every right to defend their land-- their people, who do we think controls Gaza ? who is the governing body in Gaza ? - -It’s Hamas, and who is it that supplies Hemas with more weapons that they need - It’s -IRAN . they wants a confrontation with the US - -what better way then to attack one of our strongest Allies. - -The People in Gaza, where there are a lot of Palestinians , is governed by Hamas , now those people who voted or agreed they wanted Hamas are now finding out how these cowards are hiding behind human shield’s, butchering people - - they don’t care. now hearing that IRAN wants some of the hostages
The cold facts are in war there is loss of life. Ideally Israel could use their invasion without a single loss but that just doesn’t happen. - - Bottom line is though Israel ha evrey right to defend their land safe from terriorists
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We now have these Iranian proxi’s launching attacks on US air base because we are standing by our Allies Israel , Iran saying that id the US continuers to support Israel then ew have no where there Missiles can not reach. - -Are we suppose to turn our back on Israel because of this ? - Absolutely not, President Biden has told ALL countries if they want to take this opportunity to take advantage of this situation , He just said DON’T. - -DON’T - DON’T - -DON’T and yet they continue to launch attacks against the US bases. – If it gets to engaging Iran how many missiles should we launch?
If Iran can’t get the message thats been delivered and they continue their assault, right now they take this as a weakness in the US, if they can’t comprehend English - -if they continue - then it’s time to take other action. - -If we are not careful this situation could go from reginal conflict - -to Global.
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Does anyone know who had formed Hamas? They are about 50k in a total population of 2.2M. Why haven’t they been wiped out already?
How can a terrorist organization make such an attack on country with one of the most sophisticated intelligences and second strongest military in the world. They have been getting $4B in US aid every year. How can they perform this operation for 6+ hours and no sight of any military or police intervention.
Has anyone read the history of Palestinian Muslims and Christians? Is there any regard for civilians, there is genocide going on while we are making posts in comfortable 70 degree temps watching our favorite sports.
Did folks know that Osama Bin Ladin was a US spy and fighting with US in Afghanistan?
Have we learned anything from Iraq and Afghanistan? More bombs, bloodshed and loss of civilian lives while Defense companies’ cash in more profits.
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We will not see this on national media
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cyl1pKtvmnR/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
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@AsadZ yeah it only made CNN like two days ago https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/23/us/jewish-palestinian-protest-israel-gaza/index.html
Hamas hasn’t been wiped out yet because the Israelis have shown a remarkable degree of restraint since Hamas took power. They ended the occupation and said hey, you break it you own it. Which they’ve done a remarkable job of doing.
Intel failures happen, and it will likely end the careers of many an Israeli intel officer and politician, including Bibi. And yes, I’ve studied the region. Did my BS in polisci and did a lot of coursework in IR. Lyman’s thread is a good summary.
Oh gosh of course you’re a Bernie fan, that checks out. The only thing moderate about Bernie is his toothpaste usage.
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Bernie Sanders speech on this issue:
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@FarmerJayhawk Moderate Jews and Israelis are hugely upset at their hard liner, racist, PM
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Senator Sanders is a moderate Jew for whom I have tremendous regard and respect.
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Credit where it’s due, the moral clarity from the White House has been refreshing https://x.com/glnoronha/status/1717622846917050696?s=46&t=c0LiaNrxev6XfT7LIH8dAQ
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@mayjay said in Hesela sounds ready to launch rockets:
@benshawks08 Israel is at war with a group pledged to the extinction of Jews, a group hiding in a population that harbors it and that refuses to accept Israel’s right to even exist, a group that butchered hundreds of Israelis while laughing and sending proud videos back home.
Exactly how is Israel supposed to wage such a war?
My suggestion would be genocide to prevent genocide is not going to get anyone anywhere other than dead. The solution can’t be as bad or even worse than the problem is all I’m saying. If there were an easy answer to your question, it would have been considered already by smarter people than me.
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@benshawks08 And your answer lets the terrorists get away with it until someone smart figures it out. But you thinking the problem is just a few dead people on Oct 7 [Edit: I realize this is an oversimplification of what you said; see next comment] ignores the motivation of the side you want to protect…extermination. The Israeli motivation is to survive.
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@benshawks08 Let me edit that last post because I didn’t mean to reduce your statement to discounting the number of Oct 7 victims. What I meant is I object to counting the number of deaths on both sides and deciding that the higher number allegedly killed in the response makes it worse than the initial terrorism.
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@mayjay my ideal would be that everyone is held to the same standard and that innocent life is protected at all costs. That’s my whole argument. The entire situation is one atrocity stacked on another. And a lot of US dollars and weapons are backing one side so admittedly more of my attention is on them upholding those beliefs because currently that’s where our influence lies.
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@benshawks08 At the bare minimum, letting people actually leave Gaza would make it less of a disgusting situation at this point.
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@DanR said in Hesela sounds ready to launch rockets:
@benshawks08 At the bare minimum, letting people actually leave Gaza would make it less of a disgusting situation at this point.
they have had the chance to leave go out from Gaza into Egypt Israel has been delaying their invasion into Gaza because of US request to delay. I think it’s still an option if people want to leave & some don’t , but if they do that’s an option to go through to .Egypt
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@jayballer67 I’m not sure what you’re talking about. Can’t even get US citizens out of that Rafah crossing into Egypt yet. It’s not an “option” or “chance” for anyone.
Everyone is locked in at this point in an area 7 miles wide from Lawrence to Topeka. So, imagine your million people in Topeka are told to head to Lawrence to be safe from bombing and a ground invasion. And if you want no part of any of this, you can’t even get into Johnson County. That’s how f*cked up this is.
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@benshawks08 A possible solution would be for Palestinians to refuse to harbor or support the terorist elements. When literally millions of Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank, and their supporters world-wide, celebrated the Oct 7 attacks on “innocent lives” and the attackers as martyrs in the never-ending effort to kill Jews, they forfeited their right to claim innocence.
When Palestinians disavow that goal and stop hero-worshipping terrorists, I will see more equivalency in the conflict.
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@mayjay so in your opinion “literally millions” of people are deserving of death by bombing at this point? Sorry but that sounds an awful lot like genocide.
Also, good luck to anyone who attempts to stop harboring a terrorist. Terrorists are generally pretty reasonable about such things and it’s not like they’ve already shown a willingness to torture and murder pretty much anyone (Jew or not) at the drop of a hat.
Americans celebrate our death machines every weekend as they fly over our sports stadiums. Are those millions of people now deserving of death as well? Gotta be real careful where you draw that line.
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Millions of people I referred to are the ones guilty of supporting extermination of supporting Israel and Jews. That statement doesn’t say they all deserve death, but in calling for death to all Jews they sure are not innocent.
If you think Hamas had successfully hidden from the two million Gazans affected by the attempt to root them out, do you think those Gazans were forced to march on October 7 and carry signs calling for death to all Jews? I have yet to see millions of Jews marching calling for the extermination of Muslims, Arabs, or Palestinians.
I think many of us who grew up during the 1967 and 1973 wars waged to drive Jews into the sea, and who watched the Munich Olympics massacre, are more sensitive to how determined their enemies are. Maybe knowing Holocaust survivors, and being an historian of WWII, has also given me a perspective you are unlikely to share.
But until you are willing to recognize that whole history that underlies Israel’s refusal to accept nonstop threats and attacks, and unless you can come up with an actual proposal other than calling Israel’s retaliation “genocide”, there probably isn’t much hope that you will recognize who the bad guys are in this mess.
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@mayjay My concern is more about trying to figure out who are going to be the good guys in the situation. And to be on the side of good is ALWAYS going to be a much more difficult task during conflict but that doesn’t mean we should t continue to strive for it.
I think it’s also important to consider where all of this hatred comes from. Why are there a significant amount of people in Gaza who are staunchly opposed to Israel and its existence? I’m not excusing their violence or the atrocities that have been committed or agreeing with that position but it’s still important to consider. And does indiscriminately bombing peoples homes and purposefully disrupting any kind of infrastructure or aid from getting to those who need it likely to foster more hatred or is it likely to inspire more hate.
And to be clear, I’m not saying trying to reason with the terrorists is likely to change their minds and hearts, but killing thousands of people including children who’s only crime was being born into this mess is going to make it difficult to bring about any kind of peace.
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@DanR said in Hesela sounds ready to launch rockets:
@jayballer67 I’m not sure what you’re talking about. Can’t even get US citizens out of that Rafah crossing into Egypt yet. It’s not an “option” or “chance” for anyone.
Everyone is locked in at this point in an area 7 miles wide from Lawrence to Topeka. So, imagine your million people in Topeka are told to head to Lawrence to be safe from bombing and a ground invasion. And if you want no part of any of this, you can’t even get into Johnson County. That’s how f*cked up this is.
We are FOR SURE hearing different accounts of the goings on. The report I’ve heard that it has been opened for people to leave IF they want into Egypt. - -some don’t want to leave , I’ll just leave this part alone now because this is something not gonna get into a he said /she said - no matter the circumstances People just can’t expect Israel to sit back and let Hemas constantly launch rockets , rape and kill babies and do nothing. Israel has been more then patient holding back on their invasion of Gaza. -Today Hemas launch rockets into Tel Aviv Israel that hit a hotel , no matter how it goes there is going to be A LOT of deaths
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Have you seen any evidence of babies being beheaded and killed?
This was a fake news, even Israeli government had retracted it.
Hamas needs to be strongly condemned for their heinous acts. But as a general rule it is always best to verify information before accepting it and spreading it.
At the same time Israeli government needs to be strongly condemned for their inhumane practices and creating genocide in Palestine.
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This is an excellent interview of an Israeli historian who in my opinion is spot on how to move forward from this crisis.
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@AsadZ said in Hesela sounds ready to launch rockets:
Have you seen any evidence of babies being beheaded and killed?
This was a fake news, even Israeli government had retracted it.
Hamas needs to be strongly condemned for their heinous acts. But as a general rule it is always best to verify information before accepting it and spreading it.
At the same time Israeli government needs to be strongly condemned for their inhumane practices and creating genocide in Palestine.
Hemaas needs to be highly condemned for using humans for shields - - yes we have seen the dead bodies of babies from their initial attacks we have seen the blood strewn walls of where innocent teenagers that went to this concert and then these idiots attacks on Oct 7th how they retreated to their bomb shelters and trapped where these sadistic shits cornered them and slaughtered innocent defenses teens
We have heard from US reporters on the ground there that has seen the results and refused to show the images because of the graphic nature. - If you think these sick shits deserve any pity after what they have done on Israels home ground -I’m so sorry for you. - -We have heard the interview from the elderly ladies that were hostages by Hamas how poorly and brutally they were treated.
Then you have Hamasa trying to say it was Israel that had shelled the hospital which almost instantly proven to be incorrect. - There is no way in hell that anyone can defend what these morons have done and wanting to do. Wanting to eliminate a human race? - -Seriously - -that is Israel ground. -they have every right to defend it just like the United States would have every right by any means to defend our home land
@AsadZ said in Hesela sounds ready to launch rockets:
Have you seen any evidence of babies being beheaded and killed?
This was a fake news, even Israeli government had retracted it.
Hamas needs to be strongly condemned for their heinous acts. But as a general rule it is always best to verify information before accepting it and spreading it.
At the same time Israeli government needs to be strongly condemned for their inhumane practices and creating genocide in Palestine.
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@AsadZ killed, absolutely. The exact method of terrorists butchering innocent babies like absolute pieces of shit is still under investigation.
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Alright. Lets lock this thing. I appreciate people’s passion. This whole situation is awful and you’d have to be dead inside not to feel something.
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If anyone thinks I’m locking unncessarily, pls msg me.
