Transfer Rumblings
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@BeddieKU23 Joe is inefficient. Bobby is ineffective. Take your pick. Both can go as far as I’m concerned. If I had to keep one though it would be Joe. Joe appears to try to make an impact, Bobby plays to not mess up. Joe could lose you games, but could also win you some. Bobby won’t win you anything, but he’s far less likely to lose you a game as well. I suppose it comes down to personal preference, but neither should be playing significant minutes for KU.
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I agree with your last sentence. I don’t have a preference for either. I have liked and supported both and hoped for bigger things then both have shown here. I may have overestimated what I thought they would do here.
I wouldn’t mind if one of them returns but if neither returns then I really hope we find an experienced guard in the portal
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@dylans “Bobby plays to not mess up”
That’s what our whole team did this year. @drgnslayr would say they had no “chip”. Never once this season did I see this team balls to the wall, hustle like crazy, put their feet on the throat of the “enemy”. Well, I’ll back up for a second - they played hard once they got down 10 or more - which was a lot for a team of this “caliber”. But when they weren’t making big comebacks, they were playing not to lose.
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I hear what you are saying. And I agree. But I think the reason wasn’t their lack of desire to turn it up. I think they were just conserving energy. Look at how our starting 5 often put in 35+ minutes a game. That’s a lot of minutes. It’s possible if you aren’t sprinting on every possession. But the style they really needed to play was full-tilt basketball.
We were all so excited to finally have a running team and we got a taste of it in some of our early games. The guys had fresh legs and we blew away teams so everyone received some minutes. But as the season progressed it seems like we played slower and slower basketball.
Juan deserves a lot of credit for a great season… I think he gave everything he had but didn’t have anything left.
If we ran the ball upcourt on every possession our offense would totally kick butt! We attack before the defense sets up… go right into offense after crossing halfcourt and wow!
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@dylans said in Transfer Rumblings:
@TYOHawk I’d rather Bobby left than Joe. At least Joe looks to score.
I don’t think either is good to be honest. As harsh as that sounds…but if I had to keep one I’d keep Joe. He at least plays like he has some self-esteem. He’s been on the team for 2 years and I still can’t tell you what Bobby is good at. That’s fine at a place like NC State or a mid major…not at KU.
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@drgnslayr It’s been a while, but when I was 18-22 years old - I could play ball ALL D**N DAY. After partying until the wee hours. I think we implant this stuff (not you personally - you know i almost always agree with you) stuff in their heads and they get to thinking about how physically demanding this game is. I don’t buy it. If they were playing in a 40 and under league - yeah. But not highly trained, physically gifted athletes who are in their prime.
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I’ve posted this before in here. I played extensive organized basketball then had the opportunity to play in Europe at a much higher level. I thought I was in great condition. My first day on this team and I had to puke. Every athlete has their limit. Our guys just needed more rest time within their games. For a D1 team to play real run and gun ball players shouldn’t go 35+ minutes… especially every game.
I think there is a difference in styles of run and gun. What we needed was the most-punishing version. Some run and gun just pushes the ball up court quickly and if a break score isn’t there they slow it down. We needed to push the ball up and run hard, fast offense. We needed to tire our opponents on every possession. How do we not tire when the defense tires?
We need a solid 8-player rotation. We didn’t have it this year.
We used to chat a lot about Frank Mason getting worn down as the year progressed. Part of it was him getting nicked up… but mostly he just wore down and he had great athleticism.
If you watch NBA… all those guys get lots of rest. They are pushed even harder but they get pulled constantly throughout games. What it shows is even our top athletes have their limits. They play run and gun differently. They typically only send 2 to 3 players downcourt on their runs.
Many in here thought our bench should have received more minutes in games all year. Maybe… but I bet they didn’t show they deserved more minutes in practice. Self would have liked to play them more but they didn’t show promise even in practice.
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Yeah the bench didn’t get run because Self realized he couldn’t win with them. Winning will always be above playing guys who can’t maximize that goal.
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Yep… and it makes me think about how much of our bench should we ask to return? I know good bigs are hard to find and I definitely hope we keep Ernest and Zuby… but otherwise… if guys couldn’t win minutes this year when we were so desperate for relief minutes, can they next year?
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@drgnslayr said in Transfer Rumblings:
I hear what you are saying. And I agree. But I think the reason wasn’t their lack of desire to turn it up. I think they were just conserving energy. Look at how our starting 5 often put in 35+ minutes a game. That’s a lot of minutes. It’s possible if you aren’t sprinting on every possession. But the style they really needed to play was full-tilt basketball.
We were all so excited to finally have a running team and we got a taste of it in some of our early games. The guys had fresh legs and we blew away teams so everyone received some minutes. But as the season progressed it seems like we played slower and slower basketball.
Juan deserves a lot of credit for a great season… I think he gave everything he had but didn’t have anything left.
If we ran the ball upcourt on every possession our offense would totally kick butt! We attack before the defense sets up… go right into offense after crossing halfcourt and wow!
That’s my only complaint about Juan, no backup so he had to conserve energy which lead to him walking the ball up the court too much.
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@drgnslayr @BeddieKU23 Also if interest to me is that a lot of our “athleticism” was on the bench. Guys like Joe, MJ, and Udeh all have some superior athletic ability. Really KJ was the only starter with an athletic advantage over most opponents but even that was negated by his height and playing out of position.
I also think this is what a lot of us saw early on with Bobby. His first step was elite but has fallen off due to injury. Don’t know whether he’s actually lost a step or just lost confidence in his ability to explode without injuring himself.
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@drgnslayr You’re obviously much more experienced than I am at this if you’ve played at that level. My point is, I believe we, as a people, get something in our heads and it just stays there. I think a team’s success has more to do with what’s in their heads than it does with the actual talent level on the court. I referenced Danny and the Miracles in another post. We didn’t have a deep bench then, but we had intense players. Honest to God, and I know it’s been 35 years ago, I could tell within 5 minutes that we were going to win that game. This year, we gave up a 12 point lead to a team with 13 losses. That wasn’t due to lack of depth (necessarily), but to a lack of focus. We were a better team. Heck, look at the box score. We won. It sure looks that way.
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Yeah Ernest & Zuby, two building blocks + we know our history with young big’s becoming men.
In this age where you can go find proven production in the portal I wouldn’t be upset if all the bench guards moved on. If one stays I take it the staff believes in them.
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TIMELINE
Outgoing player announcements will all be done within the next 10-14 days. Would imagine no more than one on any particular day but we will see.
Won’t see the Stanford players hit the portal until early April due to their academic schedule.
Tagging @dylans since I believe you were wondering.
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I wonder what counts most for us on the recruiting trail.
Defensive potential?
Offensive potential?
Size and/or athleticism?
Utility guard? (large guard)
If Self looks at our current roster and doesn’t see enough scoring… is he going to target a volume scorer (even if his defense sucks)?
Multiyear players versus OAD?
I know we often have specific needs… but Self talks constantly now about having a positionless team. So if we needed a PG and only a 2-star PG was available with our last spot on the team, would Self pick him or pick a 4-star utility guard?
I think recruiting must be the most important task of a head coach…
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My experience is just as likely to cause me to be inflexible with my basketball ideas. My experience was my own tiny bubble and I mention because of that… maybe I just perpetually sucked at conditioning! lol
Too many chips!
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@BeddieKU23 said in Transfer Rumblings:
Yeah Ernest & Zuby, two building blocks + we know our history with young big’s becoming men.
For sure…
But if we are out on the recruiting trail and we see a footer walking backward on campus…
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Stanford G Isa Silva just entered the portal. Don’t think he is one we are after, but doesn’t appear Stanford players are going to wait.
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Is there a reason for the Stanford exodus? Are they going through a coaching change?
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Dumb questions here…
Teams are only limited by scholarships. In our case, we are down one scholarship because of our own removal of one.
Is there a limit to how many “walk-ons” are on a team? I’ve seen some teams that look like they have 6 walk-ons or so.
Why I ask?
Since we have NIL… can’t we just give a player enough guaranteed NIL to walk-on and for sure have his tuition expenses paid and a lot more?
I’m not thinking this is a normal thing to have an extended roster. But what if Self doesn’t want to cut any current players but we have an opportunity to snag one or two special players later?
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@drgnslayr there’s no official roster limit but you are limited to how many to you can travel and dress each game.
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NIL money makes things weird. Could we add a player that gets enough NIL money to cover his tuition and expenses without the use of a scholarship?
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@drgnslayr theoretically yes but there are a bunch of recruiting restrictions around that. You can’t host a player on an official visit and contact is limited (i.e. a player can’t be “recruited”) so it’s a lot harder to get done than just telling him “oh hey we’d love to have you but NIL has to cover all your expenses”
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Might a player sign a special NIL contract allowing his visit to be paid? The deal isn’t with the university… it’s a third-party deal.
I know this all sounds theoretical… what I’m getting at… NIL destroys many of the rules currently in place.
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@drgnslayr I guess there’s a scenario where you’d fly a guy in for a commercial or something? Would be clearly sketchy as hell for a KU NIL collective to pay a guy that’s not even at KU. Would the NCAA do anything about it? Idk, maybe? Would a donor pony up the money if it’s not a guarantee the guy comes to KU? Maybe?
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@drgnslayr said in Transfer Rumblings:
I wonder what counts most for us on the recruiting trail.
Defensive potential?
Offensive potential?
Size and/or athleticism?
Utility guard? (large guard)
If Self looks at our current roster and doesn’t see enough scoring… is he going to target a volume scorer (even if his defense sucks)?
Multiyear players versus OAD?
I know we often have specific needs… but Self talks constantly now about having a positionless team. So if we needed a PG and only a 2-star PG was available with our last spot on the team, would Self pick him or pick a 4-star utility guard?
I think recruiting must be the most important task of a head coach…
I do think this is one of Bill’s keys to consistency. It seems to me he takes a pretty balance approach. He has a few things he wants to add to the team each year position wise. He has ideas about whether he wants to be more athletic/skilled/disciplined/bball IQ from year to year. But overall he kind of just ends up taking the best “dudes” he can find and then making the system fit them. We’ve seen two bigs, two small guards, 4 guards, small 5, positionless, etc. depending on the personnel Self ends up available with. He looks for the best guys and then plays the ones that give him the best chance to win every game. I think that tends to highlight balanced players that have some level of athletic/skill/discipline/bball IQ competency. A certain guy may be lacking in one area or the other necessitating someone else on the roster to make up for that deficiency somewhere.
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@benshawks08 said in Transfer Rumblings:
Is there a reason for the Stanford exodus? Are they going through a coaching change?
They were going to fire Haase. Replacement was lined up. Not sure how he kept his job.
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Watch this one if he enters https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/chris-livingston-1.html
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Transfer Rumblings:
Watch this one if he enters https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/chris-livingston-1.html
Would love this one
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Interesting, didn’t have nearly the year expected. Probably just needs a real coach
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Yeah that’s a good point about the team’s athleticism.
I have to believe for my own sanity that the injuries and what not to Bobby are the reason why he hasn’t looked himself. 3 straight years of injuries bringing you down and diminishing your abilities has to weigh pretty heavily on him. He had the ankle issue from High School to KU. Then the abdominal issue his freshman year, then the hamstring/covid whatever else this season. Either he has the worst luck or he’s prone to this. I hope it’s all over.
Bobby at 100% was an exciting player. The Wisconsin game winner is the perfect example of his athletic ability when healthy. We need that Bobby back
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@BeddieKU23 Self said he could be the “next great one”, not “pretty good” right?
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Transfer Rumblings:
Watch this one if he enters https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/chris-livingston-1.html
Has that dog in him. Would we favor him over previous mentions?
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Transfer Rumblings:
Watch this one if he enters https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/chris-livingston-1.html
This would definitely help us get more athletic. He would be a great addition.
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Season highlights back up a lot of my thoughts on him. Calipari is basically an AAU coach at this point. I think there is a lot to work with here.
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@BShark he had 8 against us, maybe 17+ mins.
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He was killing us early and then Calimari coached him out
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Yeah Livingston would be big time. He’s an NBA player, just has to figure it out.
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MASSIVE NEWS INCOMING. I was told not to go public with it so I’m behaving. No DMs.
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If I’m getting it I am sure @FarmerJayhawk also heard it.
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Here is a guy I want…
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@drgnslayr He sucks. Hardest of passes.
ETA: The KU boards including this one would get frustrated with him fast. Think a much worse Jalen Wilson. MUCH WORSE. Also without the rebounding.
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@BShark said in Transfer Rumblings:
MASSIVE NEWS INCOMING. I was told not to go public with it so I’m behaving. No DMs.
ETA on this massive news? Who is the best follow to get that when it drops?
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He averaged 6.3 rebs two years ago in a conference you have to earn your rebounds and 17.5 ppg. Last year numbers down because Minnesota struggled.
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@drgnslayr Look beyond the raw stats. Very bad.
https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2023&p=Jamison Battle&t=Minnesota
Not a player that would do well at Kansas and has never been on a winning team… EVER. Give me winners please…
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@benshawks08 said in Transfer Rumblings:
@BShark said in Transfer Rumblings:
MASSIVE NEWS INCOMING. I was told not to go public with it so I’m behaving. No DMs.
ETA on this massive news? Who is the best follow to get that when it drops?
Based on the fact that Vernon did a cryptic tweet and Swain is posting stuff on 247 premium in the last 10 minutes I’d say probably not too long…
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Not sure how you discount his stats from two years ago when he averaged over 17ppg, 75.9% FT 53.4% 2FG 36.6% 3FG. Last year he went down because of the team, hence why this local is in the portal.
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@drgnslayr said in Transfer Rumblings:
Not sure how you discount his stats from two years ago when he averaged over 17ppg, 75.9% FT 53.4% 2FG 36.6% 3FG. Last year he went down because of the team, hence why this local is in the portal.
VOLUME! Look beyond the raw numbers. He put those stats up being the offensive hub on a BAD team. 104 ORTG while putting up 17 a game is bad.
I hope we don’t have to revisit this conversation with him in a Jayhawk uniform. I’d be disgusted.
I implore you to look at his player comps for his “great” season averaging 17 pts a game.
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He put up those stats being double-teamed. His numbers remind me of JWil.
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@drgnslayr Much worse. Jalen was more efficient (see PER and ORTG, still not elite in that regard but he was bearing a large load), a much better rebounder and defender. I don’t think this is going anywhere and I just pray we don’t even look in his direction.
