Svi's summer highlights
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Well, I’m down with that. You’ve been on this and thinking clearly as usual. I haven’t thought about it as much. But when I looked at the feed and added up that he had been playing with some decent guys this summer, I saw someone who could be very tough to keep off a floor as time passes this season, and Conner and Frank go through ups and downs and getting hand cuffed occasionally by longer guards, and Greene goes through his ups and downs and shooting slumps. Self is going to be very tempted when he looks down the bench at Swy/Svi. 6 feet six, or eight inches of length defending the trey stripe instead of 5-11 and 6-0 is going to tempt the old 2 guard in Self. But you are probably right.
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@jaybate-1.0 I’m in your camp on this one. Like you said you can’t teach height. Now don’t get me wrong I’m not making claims of stardom for Svi, but the kid is going to see some playing time.
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So much depends on the KIND of scheme Self is envisioning for this year’s team. Each year Self restrings the hi-lo bow in subtle ways that change what is required from a certain position. Some years he will tolerate a lot of TOs out of the PG, if he intends for the PG to be making most of the entry passes into the post, because he knows the defense will know this and make those entry passes very high risk at times. Other years, Self wants to spread the entry passing around to the PG and one or both wings. In that case, then TOs become tantamount to blaspheming in the front row on Easter Sunday. Sometimes he wants everyone stripping, other years not. He usually sets the standards so that they enable his players with the most consistent MUA to get-her done. Last year, once he decided Joel was the man, then the ball was going inside no matter what and he knew that he wanted Selden and Wiggins on the stripe as kick out threats, so that meant Tharpe was going to be the guy forcing the passes and Self was willing to live Tharpe’s dubious defense to get that entry passing, even if Tharpe’s concentration wavered intermittently. As a result, it became very tough for Mason to be Tharpe’s backup, even though Tharpe sucked often enough to need a lot of backing up, because Mason just didnt grow up making entry passes and he just wasn’t up to the challenge of learning against the toughest schedule in 15-20 years. That’s why we saw so much Tharpe inspite of his problems. And that’s why we saw Conner come on at the end, even though D1 defense turned him into a 32% triacetate. Conner could, if the pace were slowed, force the ball inside and make fewer TOs forcing it than Mason.
So back to this coming season and Svi.
Svi could show up at the 1, 2, or 3 in back up minutes. But whether he gets those backup minutes at any of those positions depends on what Self is wanting at those positions and whether or not at Svi’s tender age he can deliver when the combat starts. I’ve watched some of this international ball, especially this shizz in the Canary Islands this past week with Consonants coaching a combination of pros and D1 guys. They aren’t playing rough at all. It doesn’t look like Svi’s summer competition is playing very rough either. D1 ball, even with the new foul calling, especially the Big 12 version of it, gets brutal in mid January through to the end the minute they find a team, or a player that can be mauled without being able to fight back and still be effective on offense. At the 2, Self is going to be expecting Selden to be our go to guy and be very physical, when the other team brings out the brass knuckles. Backing Selden up is going to take someone that can take smash mouth. Svi does not seem that type…yet, so backing up Selden and keeping the team dynamic within the likely very physical standards Selden is likely to set (and attract), may not be where Svi can get-her done this year.
Next the 3–Oubre is the OAD, and though long, he is pretty strong and you can bet Self is going to ask him to play physical. But OADs never have foundations as high their ceilings and so someone is going to get 15-20 minutes backing Oubre up. Greene looks like he has a line on this position, but the 3 slot could easily get too physical for Greene to handle full time during conference season. Greene is feisty, but there is a difference between feisty and playing smash mouth 3 game in and game out, which the Big 12 coaches like to do if you go slight at the 3. Self has gone slight at the 3 with Brady Morningstar, but its clear that he didn’t like doing it and quit when ever he got a meatier player that could get-her done (which alas, he often could not get). So: Self is going to be very tempted to split the backup 3 between Greene and a swinging Perry Ellis. Ellis is going to have to help out with the smash mouth, even though Perry is a weak smash mouth player at the 4. Thus if the 3 is strung physically, as it likely will be, Greene will probably have first dibs on the few games where the opponent plays a finesse 3. So Svi’s only chance at the 3 seems to be if Greene can’t shed the wild hair from his coat and learn to play an old man’s game and wield his trey gun more accurately than last year. And even then, Svi will only be getting a few backup minutes against some infrequent finesse 3s.
Which brings us to the PG and the key question: just what the hell does Self want out of a PG this season? If he wants a penetrator half court plus a bunch of run outs in transition, then Mason seems to be the obvious choice. But neither Conner, nor Svi, seem particularly suited to sustain that sort of dynamic in relief. Here the question is: can a freshman like Graham add an afterburner without producing a bunch of scorched pop tarts? If past were prologue, the answer would be no. This is a scheming problem for Self, because Mason may be his best PG, but Mason starting may not enable a desirable substitution dynamic. Self likes to sustain team dynamics with substitutions rather than completely kill what the team was trying to do before the substitution. He likes for the substitutes not only to guard and not screw up (minimum ante), but also to give the team a bit of a goose in the direction it was already headed, if possible, and possibly toss the rock in the hole from trifectaville once or twice. Again, I don’t see Conner, or Svi, or Graham, being able to come in and light the candle after Mason, because Mason is blindingly fast already. So: what is an Okie Baller without a rim protector to do?
Me thinks starting one of the slower PGs and then chasing with Mason is how this thing will play out after a false start of leading a few games with Mason and then watching the works bog down with the slower guards rotating in.
When you play with short bigs, you have no choice but to make you bigs move and move all the time. When you play with short bigs, even if they are strong like some of ours will be, and able to stay on spots, you can’t hope for them to be effective staying on those spots. In essence, Self faces a similar problem he faced with Kevin and Withey, who were tall, but too skinny to stay on spots. Now he has guys strong enough to stay on spots, but not tall enough to do much when they are on those spots. With Kevin and Withey, Self and Joe Dooley solved the problem by resorting to a sliding-off-the-spots-offense that was truly one of the weirdest, most wonderful offenses ever run. I suspect Self is going to have to resort to that same offense with his strong, short, but highly mobile big men this season. Take the spot, then slide off it and take the feed on the way off the spot. It was a high risk entry pass offense, but The Prophet, so intensely criticized by so many, ran it brilliantly even on only one good leg. As Self said, EJ was great at passing forward. And at hitting moving targets coming off spots in all directions. So: who might do this sort of passing best this season? Well, Conner, Davonte and Svi seem to be the leading candidates. But this sort of passing favors the taller point guard, who has to be able to throw it over the top of their own moving defenders to hit hi-lo’s coming off spots to get away from their taller defenders. This biases things toward Davonte and Svi. If one starts either, on can then rotate the other in and keep the sliding of the spots action going. And if the sliding off the spots action is not going well, then you either bring Mason to light the candle on the offense, or you bring Conner to stretch the offense with trey shooting. This scenario means that all of these guards could see time situationally. And it also means that the team would be strung in a way that would favor Svi, if Svi were to be as good as he is reputed to be and were to develop rapidly.
This is all a lot of ifs.
As HEM will rightly say, Self cuts it to seven, or eight. You can’t really play all of these guards under normal circumstances of Bill Self being Bill Self.
My only defense is: these may not be normal circumstances.
So: HEM is probably right and Svi’s time will come next season, but I just have a hunch this kid is pretty good and Self has the hots for him. That often translates to more PT than how the team looks on paper might otherwise justify.
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@jaybate-1.0 You have a brilliant mind and the ability to express what you want to say. However sometimes you over think things. Svi is going to be on the court because of his height. When the opposing team is hitting from trey land. HCBS is going to look down his bench for someone to play defense, and who will his eyes meet?
As for this up and coming season look for the unknown. As you were saying HCBS is heading into his wiser or golden years of coaching basketball. He knows this team can’t play the defense he wants. I expect to see this team run like no other. (Which favors Mason) In some of HCBS comments he made the remark this team will be fast and that we might have to do some things differently as we really don’t have a rim protector.
Whether people want to acknowledge or not this current KU team is loaded. However Svi is going to see some playing time. (I feel it in my bones)
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@DoubleDD I’m curious, if height was the deciding factor, why did CF, Mason, Tharpe, and Selden play over Greene and White? And is Svi taller that Greene? At best, an inch taller, at worst, an inch shorter. Appx. the same it seems. And why do you think that Svi is a good defender?
I will acknowledge, though, @DoubleDD feeling it in his “bones” is probably as good of an indicator as we have.
But @DoubleDD, together with @jaybate, combine for a terrific point – he is a tall, athletic guard. And “Self has the hots for him. That often translates to more PT than how the team looks on paper might otherwise justify.” Height, Self has the hots for him, and @DoubleDD’s “bones” feeling it – I can accept that.
To @jaybate’s point on scheme - I truly wish that we could have some diversity. This year will be the perfect “test” season. We don’t have a rim protector. Do we play more like 2008 when we had two 6’8"ish starters in the post - run, gun, lob, dunk, push the ball, pressure the ball?
On another item, I’m not completely convinced you can’t play fast, and then ratchet it down … going Mason to CF. But it’s got me thinkin’ …
In 2008, for example, Mario, Russell, Sherron, it didn’t matter. All faster. But remember, our guys still walk the ball up the court many times. TT did it a lot. We did it a lot in 2008. A key dynamic also to playing fast is pushing the ball after a made basket. We never do that, save for a few late game situations.
A better description I think for CF is “methodical” in the way he plays the point. Lots of tail dribbling. Dribbling spot to spot. Form passing. That is distinctly different from Mason.
Self could also shuffle personnel when CF is in. Can’t do it all the time, but perhaps matching personnel skill sets when possible. Maybe a Lucas or Mickelson with Perry matches up better with CF, and two from either Traylor, Ellis, and Alexander better with Mason? I don’t know yet. Thinking out loud a bit.
But I personally think a methodical point guard can work with a faster pace so long as he is willing to push the ball. I liken it to Alex Smith with the Chiefs. The guy is a good QB, but he is completely unwilling to throw the ball into tight spaces, thus he preserves his wonderful TD/Int ratio. Is CF willing to jeopardize his assist to turnover ratio?
Interesting note … while CF’s turnover rate is terrific – 3 turnovers, in 225 minutes = .013 per minute. Mason was 37/567 = .065 per minute.
CF’s assist rate was very low … only had 15 assists in 225 minutes. Just .066 per minute. By contrast, Mason was 72/567, or .126 per minute – nearly twice the assist rate.
That’s a 5-1 assist/TO ratio for CF, but not exactly how you’d draw it up.
Further, I think the stat is skewed a bit because CF played a lot in the 2 spot when he was in, as well.
I would say that if Self turns to CF over Mason, it’s in large part for the same reason he played Brady. Safety, comfort, a disdain for risk. But as @jaybate said, some years he will tolerate TO’s, sometimes not. Personally, I think low TOs tell you that you aren’t playing aggressive enough, but that’s another discussion.
This season, because of the obvious need to play faster with athletic post players (and no true center), Mason seems the best choice; and then our secondary choice is to play a touch more methodical with CF. To me, it actually seems like the perfect situation at PG – game situations can permit Self to use the best fit.
And then there’s Graham, the great unknown. At least we know Jeff Goodman thinks he’s a our savior …
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I think Svi will get a hard look this year because he brings a unique toolbox with him. First, his size is a definite plus. Especially important because we will face teams with big guards. Second… the guy can create. This is the biggest reason to give him a hard look. We don’t know yet how well his game will translate quickly to production. That is the big question. But Svi is a guy who can handle the ball and create floor space… he’s also a guy that can create shooting space with fakes, fade aways, and by just having a good vision of the court and basketball IQ.
I believe it is this second reason, more than the first, that will help give him potential PT. I think one guy that should pick up a lot of improvement on his game because of Svi is Greene. The guys have similar builds, but they carry themselves completely different. Greene has been too much of an upper body player. He needs to play with a better balance of his entire body… use his entire body on the court. He needs to bend his knees more and widen his stance, especially while cutting pathways on the floor. His focus has been a bit too much on just being a good shooter, which puts the cart before the horse. He needs to be able to create scoring space on the floor, then create scoring space when guarded. Svi is light years ahead of Greene’s game. I’m not discounting Greene because he does have excellent potential. But he really needs to evaluate his game and make several changes to compete at D1 level, and he’ll really need to change if he expects to make a living with basketball.
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@HighEliteMajor Actually Hem I’m stealing a page out of your book. Thinking back over the years of the previous players that have came and went. It seems a pattern has developed with some exceptions of course. Freshman seem to only see the court for solid minutes if they can man up on the defense side of the ball.
I could be wrong on Svi, but I just don’t see the guy lighting it up on the offense side of the ball his first year. To much to learn in a short time, and KU is really loaded with guys that can put the ball in the hoop. I would concur with you that his second year very well could be the classic breakout year. Of course I’m not against him being the master of disaster on the court with dead eye passing, and shooting laser guided jump shots from three land. However I just don’t see it. As you (the voice of reason) always say the kid is a freshman, and young freshman at that.
However to quote you, “he is a tall, athletic guard. And Self has the hots for him”. That says a defense stopper to me. I can’t explain, but “I feel it in my bones”
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@DoubleDD Ok, well maybe, just maybe – we’re due for something like this. We’re due for an unexpected kid to come in and take the country by storm. Something no one saw coming. He shows up at Allen and Selden can’t guard him. His ball handling is even better than advertised. He’s smooth. He shots are falling. What, wait, my wife’s waking me up from … oh, nevermind.
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What the heck… now is the only time of the year when you can totally cut loose on a dream. We really don’t have anything to be skeptical about yet. As far as we know, all our returning players improved 500% over the summer, and our incoming freshmen will jump right into playing solid D1 basketball.
This is the time of year I enjoy the most. It’s all theory, philosophy, dreams…
Expand your dream HEM. Talk about having a good story for the next thread in here… Cut loose on your perfect dream come true and let us all in on the magic in a new thread!
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Svi made the best of steal high light, but was only 1 for 4 from the floor and 2 of 5 from the line in the game against Finland. He didn’t play in the first game against Dominican Republic.
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coverage of the Ukraine team.
He ends up with 12 pts 5 boards, including a nice high speed transition layup right after a dunk at 1 hr 20 min mark.
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You all probably knew this, but I just realized that Bob Hill is an assistant for the Ukrainian team.
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Speak Russian or Ukrainian? Святослава Михайлюка
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I finally had a chance to spend some time watching some of his work, and I like Svi’s game.
Strengths: Great form and balance on his jumpshot. He has good size already, so having the good form and balance should make him a very good shooter at the collegiate level. He has range out to at least 21/22. I haven’t seen enough to determine whether his range goes further, but at his size, he will not have any problem getting his shots off. I watch him and can tell that he has been well coached for at least the last few years because his footwork is good in almost every situation offensively. There are a couple things he needs to clean up, but overall very good. Good length and he’s already starting to add more muscle from 2013 to 2014. His quickness is decent for his size. He doesn’t shy away from contact going to the rim, which should make him an effective finisher even against D1 defenders.
Weaknesses: As well coached as he is on offense, his defense is not as far along. On several of his defensive highlights he made steals by reaching with the incorrect hand. Rather than using the hand closest to the passer, he sold out on a few passes. That looks great if you make the play, but if not, you just left your teammates in an odd man situation. His rotations were also just a beat or so late at times. He made up for that with length, but better and quicker players will be able to exploit that. His footwork on pull up jumpers to his right was a bit ragged at times. His lead (right) foot tends to drag, preventing him from getting fully squared to the rim. That’s just a minor thing, as his other jumpshot mechanics are very good, so a little coaching should correct that and make him a dangerous pullup shooter.
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Nice assessment!
Yes… I’ve been amazed at how much Svi can already do at his age. He must be a quick learner, and that means a guy who will develop quickly. I just hope we have someone who can spend the time to help him with his game, not just a strength coach teaching him how to lift weights.
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Svi’s Ukraine team plays the U.S. Team at 10:30 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. TODAY, Thursday (9/4/14) on “Direct TV” channel 209 @ ESPN2 HD.
Set your “recorders.”
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@RedRooster Thanks for the heads up RR, we got it set.
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@globaljaybird Better yet. Share it on YouTube.
Sorry, but I lost my access to ESPN2.
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Final Score: USA 95 Ukraine 71
Svi did not play during the first half. He was wearing #7 on his back. If you watch the last 3 minutes “playing time” of the game you will see Svi play. He tries a dunk on a lob at the rim at the 2:55 mark left. He commits a foul at 1:49 left. He tries a 3 pointer at the 1:25 mark. And he finally knocks a 3 pointer down at the 0:54.
Fran Frachilla (sp?) had several nice things to say about Coach Self and also a lot about Svi and what he will bring to KU. Also he talked about KU reloading and mentioned of Embeed and Wigs, etc. I did not hear Fran talk about any other college during the broadcast and certainly not with the accolades he said about KU.
So if you taped the game … at least watch the last 3:00 of playing time in the game. Thank You … I’m out!
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@RedRooster
Thanks for the quick update. Did not realize the game was on until it was over. Fran has always been a fan of the KU programs and his comments are usually usually positive. He was a pretty decent coach and I am sure he misses the action, but his job with ESPN gives him good access to all thing College basketball with none of the aggravation that comes with being a head coach.
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I think there may be a glitch with this thread… It comes up in my unread list from time to time, but there are no new entries after a note I edited 2 days ago…
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He wore number 23 against the Philippines.
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Interesting glitch… partially solved. the thread was stuck for me on 21 out of 33. When I clicked the thread-to the bottom button, all the posts suddenly appeared.
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@drgnslayr I think he does need the weights. He will mature and grow, but he seems to be a boy among men, which is what he is. He had 2 pretty quick TO’s, just so young! I think he needs at least 2 years. Anxious to watch him grow and develop.
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@bskeet I’ve had similar problems. If we can figure out what reproduces the error we can report it to the nodebb guys here if there isnt already an issue pending
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No doubt… he does need to strengthen up. He could use more coaching on his game, too.
