I Wonder If Clevelands Still Loves The Love Trade?
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Lebron has been in that position too many times where its him against the other team.
The Love injury was unfortunate, with the play in which he got hurt looked like an intentional act to hurt him.
Kyrie was the last straw as he was dealing with a knee injury the entire playoffs it seemed. They were okay without Love but Kyrie was not replaceable. Hard to guard Curry and company with your backups in.
I think the Cavs did what was best for Lebron and how they wanted to build around him. Wiggins gained more being the man in Minnesota than in any year he would have gotten playing alongside Lebron. This year really made Andrew come out of his element and take over, he had no choice his team was bitten by injuries all year. From the games I saw, it was hard to believe this was the same kid who was at KU the year before. That Alpha dog mentality that he showed in games like West Virginia were so evident watching him play in the NBA, especially from January on. I didn’t know what to expect from him as a rookie because all the people who talked about his game were basically calling him a bust in the making. Now he’s got the foundation to become an all-star as long as Minnesota can field an actual NBA team.
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This is a bit of sore subject with me.
Ok so the NBA whispers into the college world about how this kid will be great and this kid will be ok. Forcing these kids no choice to except it what the NBA says as the holy truth. So they declare and then they are traded like casino chips?
I don’t care what the hell you have going on in trade rumors. YOU don’t trade a top prospect like Wiggins until you see what you got.
Like you said to many unknowns when it comes to trades. Yet just do me this favor tell me there is no such thing as a no brainer.
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@BeddieKU23 said:
Kyrie was the last straw as he was dealing with a knee injury the entire playoffs it seemed. They were okay without Love but Kyrie was not replaceable. Hard to guard Curry and company with your backups in.
I haven’t watched him closely enough to know, but most people say that Irving’s defense is not good.
Now he’s got the foundation to become an all-star as long as Minnesota can field an actual NBA team.
Hoping they can invest in a few more quality bigs, and keep Dieng and Lavine.
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A healthy Wiggins would have helped in this series.
However, a healthy Love would have been invaluable as an offensive weapon and rebounding presence. A healthy Irving would have been enormous in a ball handling role. Cleveland simply had no offensive punch outside of Lebron in this series and the Warriors exploited their lack of offensive power to the fullest.
Cleveland’s problem in this series wasn’t defense. They defended well enough to hang around in every game except Game 5. The back breaker was always that you didn’t know if they could score. I give Blatt credit for sticking with Mozgov last night in hopes that they could find an average offense by going big. It helped, but they were in no position to match up with the talent drop off from Irving to Dellavadova and Love to Thompson.
I think this series really shows just how huge the talent gap is in the NBA. Without Irving and Love, Cleveland looked like a barely functional NBA team. You can’t just turn it over to the backups at that level because the difference between a backup and a top tier player is too big to overcome. Lebron kept them in it, but the only way to equalize the teams would have been if Klay Thompson and Draymond Green had been unavailable for Golden State.
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Lete me start by saying that I did not use the term “no brainer.” Having said that, trading one unknown player, regardless of potential, for a known commodity, such as Love which is arguably the best rebounder and outlet passer in the game currently as well a a very good offensive player and generally considered one of the top 10 players in the NBA, when you are trying to build a winner “now” is probably as close to a “no brainer” as it gets.
In any case, it worked out great for Wiggins who would most likely have sat on the Cleveland bench and not developed like he has. Cleveland on the other hand did not derive the full benefit of Love’s play because of an initial lack of chemistry and ultimately his season ending injury. As Robert Burns said…“the best laid plans of mice and men often go astray”
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Really the concept of a “no brainer” especially when dealing with the elite athletes is nothing more than perception. For example you seem to have certain respect for Love and the numbers he has put up. Even claiming him as one of the 10 players in the NBA altogether. You see that is perception.
My perception I see a guy that likes to score, but plays no defense what’s so over. His defense is like a paper towel under running water at best. In fact I remember reading numerous articles where the notion was that the Cavs actually started playing better team ball after Love went down hurt.
The term no brainer was being touted around here on KU Buckets when all this went down. Not pointing fingers. It just was, and there is a good chance Love doesn’t resign with the Cavs. So what did the Cavs really get for a future like Wigs?
Nothing.
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@DoubleDD whether the Love trade happens before or after LeBron coming on board, you can be sure that it was part of the terms to LeBron’s agreement. Without looking at the numbers, I remember a severe drop off of Love’s 3 point percentage and field goal percentage after his hand injury and I believe that they’re still low. If he can’t shoot from outside I’m not sure he has nearly as much value alongside LeBron.
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If it would be just me, you could say that I had the wrong perception. However, Love is generally acknowledged by the majority, if not all the basketball analysts, as all the items I mentioned. If you recall, there were two players in the off-season that just about every team in the NBA was gunning for, Love and Klay Thomson. GS pretty early indicated they would not trade Thompson and thus Love became the target of every team needing a big; NBA team would not pursue a player that hard id they thought he was not valuable. Obviously you do not think Love is “all that” but I would guess you are in the minority…although this is also my personal and subjective opinion and I just don’t have the time or inclination to look up sources to back up my claim…and I am good with that. You are welcome to find and cite reputable sources that prove me wrong…and I am good with that too.
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@JayHawkFanToo I just don’t like him!
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You don’t have to like him to recognize his talent. I don’t like LeBron either but as I have mentioned before, I believe he is not just the best player in the world today, but likely the best athlete as well.
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@JayHawkFanToo I know. I’m not sure about best athlete.
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Can you think of a better one? The question was asked to several top athletes by ESP n the last couple of days and no one could come up with better one….link here….
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@JayHawkFanToo have u seen LBJ play anything other than bb
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@JayHawkFanToo wilt! Bo Jackson, Deion sanders, Jim Thorpe, Jackie Robinson
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@JayHawkFanToo If you’re talking about this year… I don’t know… there really wasn’t a dominant athlete that separated himself or herself… like Djokovic a few years ago, or Usain Bolt in the Olympics, or the people @Crimsonorblue22 mentioned. So maybe, because it was a down year, it was LeBron. However, he’s on the decline; this was certainly not his most impressive year., his numbers are down and he seems to have lost some bounce. This is not the unstoppable LeBron that is going to slam it down your throat in transition, where there’s nothing you can do except foul him and give him an extra point from the stripe. I might give it to him one or two of his years in Cleveland. Maybe one year in Miami.
If you mean that he’s been consistently athletic / dominant in his sport longer than anyone else… maybe… It’s really hard to say. I think if you put LeBron in the NFL his body would have broken down long ago, so its hard to say he’s more athletic than some of the lead rushers year over year, or someone like even Vernon Davis (quoted in article), who runs like a running back but is gigantic.
I think we’re in a holding pattern waiting for the next great one to reveal himself.
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@approxinfinity yes, usain bolt
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Who’s trying to prove you wrong? And who says the majority is always right? As it seems the Wiggins for Love the no brainer and can’t miss deal has indeed turned out to be a bad one for the Cavs. Though there is still time. If only the Cavs can get Love and his can’t miss skills to sign on the dotted line?
I just don’t get how you or anybody can say Love is this great and complete player. When the guy plays some of the worst defense I’ve ever seen. I guess I’m just getting old when a person can be a top 10 player in the NBA yet play no defense.
I think you miss the point about perception? It is never really wrong or right. It’s just how someone perceives something. You precieve Love as this great player and I don’t.
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I am talking about the present and none of those athletes are active anymore. I think you could make a case for Bo Jackson but the others are not physically at the same level as LeBron; Thorpe and Sanders were very fast but physically would not compare with the 6’8", 260 pound LeBron who really is a freak athlete. Did you see the link I posted?
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This is just my opinion… nothing factual… but I think if Love had been healthy GS would have won in 5 instead of 6.
I thought Tristan Thompson was amazing. He didn’t have quite the offensive punch Love has, but he plays a heck of a lot better defense.
What kept the Cavs around in this series was their defense. They did a pretty good job of limiting the high-power offense of GS rack up the points like they are capable of.
And really… Tristan has plenty of upside left in his game. He has made huge gains already since turning pro. At least he plays defense and I feel the reason why Love will never win a title is because he doesn’t play defense. You can get away with that all through the season, but not at the end. The champs are crowned based on playing solid defense.
Thompson and Mozgov did a very good job of defending the post, and sometimes Thompson stepped out and did a reasonable job, even against Curry.
If I was Cleveland I’d let Love go. Free up the money and invest in the future. Repair the mistake they made by trading Wiggins. Maybe they can buy him back?!
Having said that… Cleveland did make some good moves. They would have given GS a real run for their money if Irving wouldn’t have gone down. He did a very good job of containing Curry while offering another alternative than LeBron.
I’m not a huge LeBron fan… but the guy is amazing. In some ways I’d like to see him lift the curse in Cleveland. I think he suffered with some deja vu… He can’t bring a title to Cleveland on his own. He has slowed down a half step. And he also conserves his energy in games. He just isn’t the spring chicken any longer. I can’t believe the sportscasters demanding that LeBron take it to the hole every single play. Don’t they realize how tiring that is? I’ve already read criticism about James’ performance. Really?
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@drgnslayr no! Wiggs is better off w/out the king!
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We seem to have a problem with semantics. Perception is one person’s view of anything and as such it is subjective and can be biased; however, when the majority of observers see something the same way then perception becomes consensus and by extension reality.
At the time of the deal, I mentioned that it was crazy of Cleveland to sign Love for one year without an ironclad agreement for an extension and now Love can go to whatever team he wants. Had Irving, Varejao and Love stayed healthy, Cleveland wins this series in 4 or 5 games but like I said…the best laid plans…
As far as Love - playing the worst defense you have ever seen - that is a perception that is not close to reality. This article (from a Golden State site no less) puts Love’s defense in context and it is not nearly as bad as many people that have never see him play think it is. Read it and form your own opinion. I am not a big fan of Love any more than I am a fan of LeBron but I have to admin they are both pretty damn good players…another subjective opinion and my last word on the subject.
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@Crimsonorblue22 @approxinfinity
Yes, Bolt is probably the fastest man ever but he is a one-dimensional athlete that competes uniquely in sprints (100m, 200), and I am not sure how he would do in other events requiring more endurance and/or strength. Typically the winner of the Decathlon is considered the best athlete in the world and I have a feeling that LeBron would do well in that event. Just my opinion of course and a lot of it is based on what I saw LeBron do in the playoffs when he single handed carried his team in one of the most impressive performance in basketball playoff history and many believe he should have been the MVP.
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@JayHawkFanToo I’m going to go w/Ashton eaton.
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It’s ok I’ll have the last word I usually save the best for last anyways.
No problem with semantics here you just feel that if you’re in the majority that your right and it is reality. Sorry friend reality changes all the time and so does the majority. The majority of Germans thought it was right to declare war against the Jews and the world. Were they right? The majority believed in 2008 that Memphis was far and away the best CB team to lase them up, and that KU really had no shot of winning a championship in the star studded all number 1 seeds final four. Were they right? Perception is really neither right or wrong. History has shown us that the majority isn’t always right. Well just look at the Cavs deal of trading Love for Wiggins. Need I say more?
I believe it’s pretty well documented that Love plays weak defense.
