Let's talk Summer Korea World Games- B. Greene Surgery Impact
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@REHawk said:
@dylans I care. Those are our Jayhawks which were chosen to represent the USA. If we finish 9th, as have a couple of other “USA” teams in recent years, then it goes down as FAILURE!
You and I are in the group of KU fans I mentioned who care. The games do not count though is my point. The usuall Bill Self win at all costs is not a good way to go about this tournament. This is PRE-SEASON ball and the games count less than a local pickup game. The practice is important. The team chemistry building is important.
If KU takes 9th place, but learns how to play as a team and plays up to their potiental the following season(regardless of a National Title or not) then the games where a resounding success. If KU takes 9th and makes no improvement then this was a horrible waste of time and money. If KU wins the tournament and doesn’t improve (not likely) it is also a waste of time 'cause these guys are going to burn out playing such a long season.
These games are a chance for the team to come together and for the freshman (hopefully freshmen) to catch up. Winning is nice, but not important at this tournament depending on how you win or loose. A bunch of close losses at the buzzer would be bad too. A bunch of blowout losses would be bad for confidence.
This is Bill’s chance to tinker with the line-ups and give guys minutes that may not get minutes when the games count. Think about how much better Svi could’ve been last year if given the same opportunity.
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The way I understand this…
In previous years we took players from various schools. This is the first time we are trying to have one school represent America.
However, this year, since we will need to pickup a few extra players, and the pool of quality ex-players from Kansas won’t be available, then Self will look to land a few players from other schools.
I could see us landing Frank Kaminsky… for one! If his NBA team will let him go.
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@ralster Thanks for the tweet updates. I’m not surprised about TRob and spirituality given all of his loved ones are gone, only his baby sister. We all need loved ones around for support from daily grinds of life, and perhaps he found solace in God. Hope he has good people around him. He’s got it tough compared to most players.
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@BeddieKU23 said:
The one defense for Self I have is that he’s not going to come out and blast the team negatively at the Banquet. He made some jabs but they were all in joke format.
You are right, we shouldn’t believe much because it was a PR move to keep everyone thinking positive and closing the season on a good note, recognizing players for hard work over the season.
Every team in the nation had injuries and they were not talked about. Whatever it is that caused the late season collapse is on him, and he knows it. What he does to correct it remains to be seen.
This is a perfect way to explain it.
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Does Self realize 14 hour difference between Lawrence and Korea? It is Midnight there vs. 10am Central. Europe is a bit easier to adjust, but when the day/night flips, it will take a few days even for healthy boys to adjust. They will be up ready to go at 4am in Korea.
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So players with a NBA contract aren’t eligible?
It has to be d-league players?
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@drgnslayr This is from the Brannen Greene hip article in KUSports.com today
Summer exhibitions: Self revealed that KU’s World University Games team would play a pair of exhibition contests against the Canadian National Team this summer in Sprint Center in Kansas City, Missouri. It would be the week before the Jayhawks head to South Korea for the Games, which run July 3-14.
“Just because Allen Fieldhouse is not air-conditioned,” Self said of playing in KC. “It’d be hard to play a summertime game in Allen if you are able to put some people in there. It’d probably be pretty miserable. We plan on doing that the week leading up to the tour. Nothing is finalized.”
KU is allowed 12 players on its World Games roster. Svi Mykhailiuk (Ukraine) cannot play for the KU/U.S. team. If Self needs to fill out the roster, he cannot add any former KU players now in the NBA because their participation is against the NBA collective-bargaining agreement.
“It looks like all our ex-players in a development-league-type situation are too old,” Self said. “A Tyshawn (Taylor), Elijah (Johnson), Travis (Releford), they are all too old. They all turn 25 before Jan. 1. You can’t turn 25 before Jan. 1. I could possibly go try to get a guy from another school, somebody fighting to try to find his way just to fill a spot. We’re going to wait and see how many guys we have, who we sign. If we get another international player, he can’t go. Numbers may be such we may need to get a guy or two.”
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@REHawk Totally agree, here’s the mysterious explanation of Greene’s immobility that we were all ready to chalk up to plantar clumsiness. It’s a relief to know he can still grow his game speed. Downer to know he’ll miss the entire summer.
Now we just need an explanation for Selden’s baffling lack of game.
And in the meantime, we need to sign another perimeter stud player.
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“he cannot add any former KU players now in the NBA because their participation is against the NBA collective-bargaining agreement.”
What about players just ready to come into the league? Is there a chance they could play if they haven’t dribbled a NBA ball yet?
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@drgnslayr said:
What about players just ready to come into the league? Is there a chance they could play if they haven’t dribbled a NBA ball yet?
How is that possible? Either they sign a contract or they don’t.
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If they do, the collective bargaining agreement rules.
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If they don’t, their agent isn’t going to let them go to Korea to get injured - plus the team with rights is going to say “I own you”.
No chance.
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@BeddieKU23 Ahhh! I totally want Kevin Young to come play for us!!!
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@HighEliteMajor Man, I can sense your frustration here. I agree that KU fell quite a bit short of their potential this season. But, if Brannen is getting a surgical procedure done, why would he even agree to it unless he needed it? I mean we saw the same relative 3 point % drop off with Tyrel Reed when he had bone spurs in his foot. Its all basic mechanics right? I mean there is a bone spur anywhere, in any major area, hip, foot, knee, whatever, its going to affect performance due to the pain involved. Sure, Brannen probly made tons of threes in practice but thats not the same as game time, getting fouled on shots, hard fouls with no calls. Its different.
One last thing. Every one of our guys returning this year will be mostly upperclassmen now. They are going to be better when November rolls around again. I would bet on them breaking the 30 win mark and making it further into the tourney this time. Absolutely minimal chance they get bounced in the second game again for the third straight time.
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I know I am in the minority on this, but I don’t care if we win any games in the World Games. I like the early start we get, love the game time minutes of experience we’ll rack up. Beyond that, everyone stay healthy.
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@KUSTEVE I kinda agree with you. I would like us to be competitive at the games and win some. That would be nice. Is it a must win situation for us? Im not sure. Would it affect recruiting in years to come if they bomb? I dunno. Will it help the team to have extra time to practice and build chemistry before the season starts? Absolutely.
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@Lulufulu BG did say his legs weren’t right at the end of season.
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I want to win. Didn’t Cliff and oubre both wear boots from ankle sprains last summer? Injuries happen. They will have late summer off too. I’m really hoping we sign Ingram and diallo. Do you think diallo and Svi can practice w/us? If they are not playing, could they come along as managers? I want to show up well there!
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I believe that for the last games Northern Iowa was selected to represent the US and they ended up 9th, so this is not the first time a school rather than a all-star/combined team is representing the US.
Also, if I understand correctly, the rules call for “incoming freshman and transfers are usually eligible” so it would seem that Bragg and Diallo*** (if he signs with KU) would be eligible as would Thorne, provided they enroll for the summer which most players do so they can avail themselves of the facilities.
Last, maybe the NBA agreement does not allow players to play in the University games, but until Oubre actually signs with a NBA team he is free to do what he wants and he would be eligible; obviously the team that picks him would not be happy (too much risk) and there is always the chance they have an agreement that as condition to pick him he cannot play in the games; I see this as a real possibility, particularly if he is a lottery pick.
*** Correction- Diallo is not eligible to play for the US.
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Diallo is from Mali. NBA Summer Leagues will go down same time as WUG
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@JayHawkFanToo you have to be born in the usa
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@Crimsonorblue22 Do you have to like Springsteen?
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@Kip_McSmithers and @Crimsonorblue22
Slap in the head…I knew that and I was going to delete that part but while adding Thorne I missed it…
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@nuleafjhawk not much!
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@Lulufulu Curious, do you feel the same way about our roster if we don’t get Diallo?
I don’t disagree that the hip surgery was needed … he wouldn’t get it otherwise. No issue there. Sounds like it’s something being done electively, to remove the source of irritation. I do, however, think the hip thing had zero to do with his shooting. This issue is the start to the drop off – in reality it was like falling off a cliff. That doesn’t happen on something progressive. Break your hand? Sure. Self said he’s always had the spurs and it’s just got progressively worse. He seemed to shoot fine for 80% of the season through the TT game. Sounds like an irritant that has just gotten to the stage where it’s wise to remedy it. He didn’t develop the spurs just after the TT game. Again, I don’t think the two are related at all. I mean like zero.
Self mentioned the supposed “minor” concussion as it related to his shooting. That is just silly. If the kid had any concussion issues, he wouldn’t play, or practice. If he had concussion issues that affected his shooting, then he wouldn’t be able to shoot in practice/scrimmaging. A concussion isn’t going to discriminate between the driveway, a practice or a game. If your head is jacked up – movement, sensitivity to sound or light – it’s jacked up. And if he had any of those in a game, they would pull him related to (my assumption of) concussion protocol. He obviously had been cleared. It’s not something where magically the “minor” concussion would affect him only in the game.
I’m just curious, question for Bill Self, did the rest of the team also have “minor” concussions following the TT game?
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Why can’t we just be like Duke and send this over to our in-house legal school and let them strong arm the governing body?
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@HighEliteMajor Hmmmm. Interesting. No, I dont buy into the concussion thing either. If the med team cleared him for play, he would have been fine. You might be right though, his shooting might not have been affected as precipitously as it was just by his hip issue. Tyrel’s was.
To answer your question, No, we absolutely need Diallo and or Thorne to shore up our front court this coming season.
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Well…not necessarily born in the USA but would need to be eligible to get a US passport. Most children of American citizens born overseas are US citizens and would be eligible. Xavier Henry, if I recall correctly was born in Belgium but he is a US citizen and would be eligible, subject to age and school attendance requirements of course.
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@JayHawkFanToo you ruined my song!!
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Pools Announced:
When Kansas University’s men’s basketball team begins representing the USA at the 2015 World University Games this summer, the Jayhawks will start things off in Gwangju, Korea, in the same pool as Brazil, Chile, Serbia, Switzerland and Turkey.
The World University Games, which feature four pools of six teams, begin July 3 and finish July 14. KU, playing as the National Team, is in Pool D. Following five games of pool competition, teams will be seeded for bracket play, with the top two teams from each pool competing for the gold medal.
Only current university student-athletes or recent graduates, born between Jan. 1, 1990, and Dec. 31, 1997, are eligible for the 2015 Games. For KU’s participation, only U.S. citizens can compete — meaning Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk won’t play with his fellow Jayhawks in the competition — and incoming freshmen and transfers qualify.
Historically, the USA has won 13 World University Games gold medals, three silvers and three bronze since the inception of the games in 1965. The USA’s last WUG gold medal came in 2005. The USA is 1-0 in the World University Games against Serbia with a 68-66 victory in 2009. Serbia later won the 2009 WUG gold medal and USA the bronze. The USA is 8-0 against Brazil with the last meeting in 2001, at USA 99-67 victory. The USA squad is 1-0 versus Turkey with the lone meeting in 2001, a 113-90 decision. The USA has yet to face Chile or Switzerland in World University Games competition.
This is the second time a college team will compete in the World University Games. In 2007, the University of Northern Iowa participated and finished ninth in Bangkok, Thailand.
The Kansas travel party, consisting of 12 competitors and staff (24 total), will leave Lawrence June 28 and live in the athlete village throughout the Games. The International University Sports Federation (FISU) which governs the World University Games established the criteria for selecting each pool based on previous WUG results, previous participation in the Games, continental representation and the International Basketball Federation (FIBA) rankings. Following the five games in pool competition, the teams will be seeded for bracket play with the top two teams from each pool battling for a medal.
2015 World University Games Pools
Pool A – Korea, Estonia, Germany, China, Angola, Mozambique
Pool B – Russia, Canada, Mexico, Mongolia, Sweden, Montenegro
Pool C – Australia, Lithuania, Finland, Japan, France, Chinese Taipei
Pool D – Serbia, Brazil, USA, Turkey, Chile, Switzerland
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@RockChalkinTexas an awesome opportunity!
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BG needs hip surgery that will take 5 months to recover from after a season in which he turned startlingly lighter shades for some weeks without explanation, and had a slight concussion. And he was suspended a game for not taking care of business? Why in hell was he playing?
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@jaybate-1.0 it was a joke! BG and his 3 sign to his head thing. He did have one earlier, not making light of it.
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@Lulufulu I went to the billselfexperience, & the Capt’s Club level has 15 guys at YachtClub partying w/Self & u can ask him anything you dare. Then the next am there is a film study scouting breakdown (IowaState this year), for this same subgroup. Self was extremely candid during these small group interactions:
on IowaSt: he knows everything Hoiberg is doing down to a scary level of detail. Our guys executing reliably has been a recurring issue the last 2 yrs, in general…
on Naadir Tharpe: a really good player but literally leading the team in the wrong direction…" He had to go…HAD to go."
on Kaleb Tarczewski’s recruitment: “He was telling us for over a year he’s coming, then his AAU coach”…(did something late & Kaleb goes to AZ, Self extremely displeased with that ending). He went on to say if we’d gotten Kaleb, we wouldnt have gotten Jojo…
on Joel Embiid: “Better than Okafor, unbelievable footwork & much better passer. Thought we’d have Jojo x2 yrs”. (Also said Embiid very immature, even now, Self recently referred him to a financial advisor.
on Okafor: he wanted KU, but Tyus Jones was set on Duke, & they had to play together…
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@ralster I bet that was interesting and fun!
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Bill Self says that he really hopes to bring in a “pro” type guard, not necessarily a OAD but a recruit who is destined for professional level play. Brown or Newman?
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@ralster Thanks for sharing, ralster. Partially answers lots of questions re Self’s recent recruiting.
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I guess I’m confused why Coach Selfs words could mess up Brannen’s head to the point he couldn’t shoot, but a concussion doesn’t affect his head?!?
Free-throws are all muscle memory, but you must adjust on field goal attempts. BG was still golden on the FT stripe. His three ball went down the crapper though. I can’t decide if it was mental (coaches doing - not likely or concussion) or physical (bone spurs). No jumping on free throws so that could factor in also.
By all accounts BG is thick headed and stubborn so a “fools gold comment” is unlikely to stick in his craw. Did this de-rail him?
A progressively worsening bone spur would most likely cause a tapper off and not the precipitous drop off we saw. That is unless the pain hit a threshold he couldn’t handle any more. It didn’t appear that he was in that much pain, so more likely the pain was causing him to change his motion more subtly.
A concussion affects people differently depending on severity and a multitude of factors we don’t fully understand. It is possible that a concussion messing with his head and bone spurs messing with his form added up to a huge drop off in shooting percentage.
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@dylans I thought he appeared to be in pain while trying to play defense!
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@Crimsonorblue22 Hahaha. Poor guy. I just thought he was slow with poor footwork. Turns out he was hurting too.
Seriously, I thought his D picked up quite a bit this season. When he was making shots he was hustling more on D. too. I just hope he can keep improving his handle and defense so he can stay on the court longer.
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@dylans I’ve never seen a D1 athlete move like BG!
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I’m electing you our new inside source! Great job!
I had one very brief conversation with Bill before the season and all he did was basically apologize for not landing a 5. He was totally worried how we were going to win without a real 5.
For that reason alone, I still can’t imagine we won’t end up without someone who can be a strong presence in the paint. I would be quite happy with Diallo, even though he isn’t a tree.
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The somewhat “white elephant in the room” regarding 3pt shooting, Self actually addressed while we were talking about it. There have been games this season and past seasons (with even different KU rosters) where KU shot almost 50% from 3, with 14-15 3att’s…and other times in this (&other) season(s), where KU shot horribly from 3 (like 3-for-21, etc…).
Sometimes teams “just cant make shots/bad shooting nights”. How else can you explain a Free-the-3-Poster-Team like IowaState also having dismal 3-shooting outings??
Note to @HighEliteMajor: Man, I wish you were at this event–I would have liked to see what questions you would have crafted for Self directly! Actually thought about ya prior to attending the sessions with Self. Some of the more obvious questions, such as outside-in vs inside-out, we all know the stats behind why Self believes what he does. In an abstract sense, but it plays out in almost every facet of his system: Self always plays the odds.
While every single Jayhawk man, woman, and child has every right to ask Self about early Tourney exits, the same questions should be directed to Roy, Coach K, Calipari, etc…by their respective fanbases–> and they were…I read many Dukie and KY and UNC comment boards after their 1st round exits and NIT “experiences”… It wasn’t pretty from about 40-50% of the comments immediately following their losses either.
At this point, having had this pastime of commenting on public forums since about 2007?, to me its same-old, same-old after a loss: Posters for each segment speak up, and it partly reflects the poster’s personal philosophy/optimist/pessimist…and partly their level of analytical understanding of KU’s playstyle, its execution, and their take on what the gamefilm is revealing. An identical pattern to what I saw on KY, UNC, and Duke boards…
I personally was NOT crushed after the Stanford or WSU losses, as those were really not surprising losses, as KU fielded flawed teams both seasons, and had significant late season issues (injuries) both seasons. The UNI, VCU, Michigan losses were crushing, as the expectations for a ‘veteran’ KU team are much higher, and it was very painful to see the kids blow a promising tourney run as they did…
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@ralster on your comment about executing reliably, is it a bb IQ problem?
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What cool experience and thanks for sharing it with us. If I were 25 years younger I would really make it a point to try to attend the camp.
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@HighEliteMajor & @BeddieKU23 No guys–you just don’t understand–we had SO many injuries! SO many more than any other D1 team. It’s a miracle we didn’t have to play our student managers! And we were SO young! SO, SO young! Probably younger than any other team out there…except maybe Kentucky and Duke…
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@ralster Any dish on the rash of injuries this season and how to prevent them going further?
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Duke & KU were 2 of the top 10 youngest teams in the country. Young isn’t an excuse. One wins the Championship, one goes home early.
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Great info. Did everyone imbibe in alcoholic beverages during the informal with Self? Could you imagine the info he might let out of the “vault” if he got a little snockered?
Also, was admission to the event pricey? Maybe we should set up a Go Fund Me page every year to raise money for one of us nosey parkers to rub elbows with Bill and hound him with difficult and dangerous questions. It would be excellent fodder for conversation to be sure.
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@BeddieKU23 Agree–I was being sarcastic. Guess I should have added one more ‘SO’ lol. But hey, we were still Top 32!
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“While every single Jayhawk man, woman, and child has every right to ask Self about early Tourney exits, the same questions should be directed to Roy, Coach K, Calipari, etc…by their respective fanbases–> and they were…I read many Dukie and KY and UNC comment boards after their 1st round exits and NIT “experiences”… It wasn’t pretty from about 40-50% of the comments immediately following their losses either.”
We fans expect a lot. Most of us are far past the age of our players so we don’t even recall how we executed at their age. How much of the March performance is a total crap shoot because the players are so young? How can a coach predict if his guys will come out and execute? Even if they do execute, anything can happen and a team can get rattled.
I think back to myself at that age. I can’t imagine having to execute with all the pressure these kids face today. I marvel at the level of execution they actually accomplish. I remember being the biggest oaf on first dates in college. Tripping over cracks in the sidewalk and stuttering my words. Yet… I expect these kids to step into an arena with 40ooo screaming fans and TV cameras with big lights and think they should execute perfectly. I know, I know… they’ve been building up to this since junior high. So was my conversations with girls…
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@Crimsonorblue22 On executing reliably: Best example is the 08 team, must have a TON of reps to do things at high speed to catch foes off guard. So much of our set offense relies on timing! When we say a player is “thinking too much”, we are essentially saying they have uncertainty about what to do, & in that moment of hesitancy, they’ve given up part/most of the natural advantage an offensive player possesses. SO, regardless if you are a McDAA or not, you will do better with experience & toughness on your side.
So, the biggest takeaway lesson for this system is to have a team that knows what its doing, from an experience standpoint. Talent plays a big part in how soon a kid can reliably contribute, as well as pure bball ability.
Consider the '12RunnerUp hawks. Not a McD on the roster, but look what experience did for TRob, EJ, TT, Withey, Releford, KYo. Part of their talent quotient, though, was that they were spotty shooters…had a habit of falling behind, and that caught up with them in their final game.
I also see that some guys get off on blasting Self for his recruiting “misses”, and then there’s the inevitable sarcasm when commenting on the chances that Lucas or Jamari or Tharpe could lead us to a Final4. My general response (which hasnt changed since Day 1), is that I wish it were that easy to go recruit exactly what you need every single year, no such thing as NBAfree agency in college.
Frankly, the square peg/round hole thing can never be as simplistic as it sounds. Its just basketball…played by still-developing-kids. Some my come w/certain skills, but invariably add more. They get bigger & more physical, and often look better in yr 2 or 3 than yr 1.
How can anyone explain NON-McDAA Mason playing so well, especially in Yr2? Self’s comment on Mason to me: Frank should have been this good last year, as a frosh, but that is some of the poor leadership by Tharpe…
How can you explain NON-McDAA Devonte simply able to outplay frosh EJ, Tharpe, Selby, TT, Chalmers, RussRob, Releford, Reed, Brady, & even frosh Mason? Kid isnt even top50.
My point is its highly variable when a kid will “get it”, and when you have a whole team of kids trying to figure it out & get tough & consistent, that entire team’s development & reliability simply cannot be rushed. Fans drive themselves crazy with angst, grief, and then of course show up in public forums armed to the max with sarcasm, rhetoric, or even stats (which we alrdy know are poor) and commence blasting on whatever kid or whatever coach. Man…Why put yourself thru such angst, frustration, and downright fury aimed at (any) college bball team? I guess it IS therapeutic for some to have to vent.
Actually, I even care less about bragging rights (another reason fans get pissed after a loss). I live in Wichita. Whenever I get a comment from a Shox fan, I always reply with the analytical-tape line about mistakes, turnovers, defense, and veteran team poise vs losing poise. Interestingly, BOTH Self and Marshall used the “poise” word about that game, but from different perspectives. I knew KU was done even by the start of the 4th period, and that wry half-smile from Self told me he knew it as well. Ask yourselves why we didnt see red-faced-Self storming the sidelines? Because he knew his team didnt have it. Cant beat a dead horse. But how many comments we read that are couch-potato-level understanding, suggesting he got “outcoached”? That is almost funny to me. Thats like saying Krzyzewski got “outcoached” by the Mercer coach last year…stew on that for a minute. Does anyone really believe that? How would one accurately describe that loss by Duke? Did Hoiberg-darling get out-coached (”he’s got nuthin" ) by the UAB coach? Would anyone analytically really want to leave their analytical-cred “card” in that basket & call it good? And then magnify that error by developing theories and suggestions-for-fix based off such a conclusion?
Every single player on '14-15Jayhawks has 2 or 3 things he could be doing better, and when you throw together a whole team of such guys, what will the final product be, at this stage? Answer: Simply maddening, if you allow it to get to you. Must understand all the 15-20 reasons (recall I said ea player has 2-3 things he absolutely must improve upon) why this was one of Self’s “worst” teams. So, lets leave our analytical brains with 1 more opportunity to understand: Why was it one of Self’s worst?
My only advice to fellow jhawks is to NOT shy away from the complexity of the correct answer–fight thru the screen that human nature makes us want to boil it all down to something simple… But the answer here is absolutely not simple. Multifactorial, and tightly interwoven & interdependent amongst those multiple factors. (And it doesnt matter what brand of shoe a team is wearing…)
Peace.
