It's Venting Time
-
@wissoxfan83
“I’m not sure why this team bothered me more than other teams that fell short but I’ll try.”
What bothered me most was the feeling I had that this team would develop top-notch chemistry. All the guys like each other and seem to be well-bonded. I had a feeling in my gut that would help carry them over the lows. In some ways it did, but there were other areas it didn’t seem to help.
"One good thing - I now have lots of time to tend to my garden (have 60 tomato plants already in the ground) and be outside to enjoy this wonderful time of year. "
I’m with you on that! I haven’t even started my seeds! I’m late!
-
I would love to say wait till next year, but we will have the basic team back next year. Is that really a good thing? I’m not sure being a year older is going to help this team either.
Also think the lack of tournament success is really starting to show some glaring holes in Bill Self as a HC. I hate to admit it but winning conference championships just isn’t cutting it anymore. I would venture to say look for the winds of change to start chirping if HCBS and next years team don’t make a deep run in the tournament.
-
@RockChalkinTexas I’ll drive over to Austin to raid your garden when they get ripe.
(That was a joke.)
-
And in the meantime,
Kentucky moves on.
Duke moves on.
Louisville moves on.
Arizona moves on.
North Carolina moves on.
Michigan State moves on.
UCLA moves on.
-
-
@RockChalkinTexas Well, I guess that’s the group we belong in then.
Non-Blueblood programs.
-
We could have really used a healthy Zach Peters in the paint the last 2 years! I wish that kid would have panned out.
-
@Statmachine Could have used a B-MAC, an Andrew Wiggins and a Joel Embiid as well…
-
Here’s how I’m choosing to look at this.
Maybe this team is simply a year away from being great.
Kansas could conceivably start 5 upperclassmen next year (with a bare minimum of 3, but most likely 4). That’s insane by recent history’s standards.
You can only hope that the previous 2 early exits have made this team hungry. Time is running out for the upperclassmen to do some damage in March. None of them have experienced anything beyond the sweet 16 (save Traylor, who wasn’t allowed to compete). And only once at that.
I’m already scared for next year.
-
@nuleafjhawk could you imagine our team if we DID have all of them on this years roster?
-
Man, I would love to have Jaylen Brown and Malik Newman on this team. Those are guys that can really break a defense down. However, I agree with you that if we don’t utilize their great ball skills, there really isn’t much point in having them around. Doesn’t make sense to have a Ferrari just to go to the grocery store.
But that’s where we will be hurt in future recruiting battles. The top talent will see that maybe Kansas isn’t a destination program because we don’t utilize and showcase the unique individual skills of our players. Bill Self is putting himself in a situation where he almost has to land not just top recruits, but top interior players, because having top perimeter recruits doesn’t help him because he doesn’t maximize their talent.
I’ve always wondered if Self’s approach is affected by the fact that he was a PG, but he wasn’t a break you down off the dribble type of guard. Self wasn’t blowing by anybody, so he envisions the role of a PG as a distributor and wants his perimeter guys to pound the ball inside like he was taught. Even with great players like Wiggins, Oubre, Rush, McLemore, etc., Self wants them working the ball into the post rather than creating. Just a thought.
-
@DoubleDD said:
venture to say look for the winds of change to start chirping if HCBS and next years team don’t make a deep run in the tournament.
Hmmm. Yes,… and while maybe I’ll feel different if we are the only blue blood program not to make it out of the first weekend again next year, right now I feel as if I might start losing a bit of passion myself if we suck in the tourney yet again.
-
@Statmachine I think we would have had Kentucky peeing down their pants legs.
-
I’d love to see college hoops as in the early 1980’s when a team like UNC had James Worthy, Sam Perkins, and MJ on the same team as experienced players, and they were challenged by other schools with equal talent. This was only possible because they stayed around for at least 3 years.
-
@nuleafjhawk Yeah, and just think if we still had Wilt and Danny and JoJo! Then we could put a smackdown on that mean ol’ Kentucky, lol!
-
Big 12 Title = Fool’s Gold?
Coach Self and his staff are paid to get effort, intensity, energy out of our guys in March. If this early upset was a one-off or if we fought hard but didn’t get it done (see 2012 title game) – okay, but instead the half-hearted early exit has become our “new normal”. Are the Big 12 Titles our real “fool’s gold”?
My 13 yo daughter woke me up in the middle of the night last night saying she’d had a nightmare. I sat on the edge of her bad and said, “no, honey, it wasn’t a nightmare, we really DID roll over for Wichita State.” She kept trying to interrupt me to say that wasn’t her nightmare but I was quicker, “no, no, honey, I know it seems unbelievable that most of our best players disappeared yesterday, but it really did happen.” And, “Frank ran at the Beast, but he was too worn down from carrying the load all season - Bill just ran him into the ground.” Then, “I know you’re really scared, and I am too, but soon enough we’ll be sad that summer is over and it will be October and it will all start again.”
I never did find out what that nightmare was, but I had her giggling by the time I left her room. As for me, I’m likely still too upset by what I didn’t see yesterday, but my 10+ year crush on HCBS is over.
Thanks to all for a great site…I’ve learned immensely from all of you. Will be interesting to see where Gregg Marshall lands. Twitter is alight with Alabama rumors.
-
Can’t wait til Late Night next October when we hang our Big 12 Banner!!!
What kind of hilarious skit will Bill pull?
Will he ride a motorcycle?
Will he wear a Wiggins-style sports coat?
Will he dress up like a shock of wheat?Okay, I know, that was mean. I’m sorry. But I couldn’t resist
-
@iheartjayhawks I think Marshall might (and should) hold out for something bigger. There might openings at Texas and Syracuse on the near horizon, lol.
-
“Will he dress up like a shock of wheat?”
Or wear a “Fear the Wheat” shirt?
I know I’m terrified of wheat… especially the gluten!
I’m going to jump the gun and order me a “Fear the Gluten” shirt!
-
I don’t know what we were writing in 2006 on this same week. For the second straight year we had been defeated by one of the Killer B’s. We were a national laughingstock. We were wearing paper bags over our heads at KU games. We just flat out stunk up the place.
Fast forward to 2008. You know how this story ends.
Fast forward to 2010. Northern Iowa, we got Farmoushked. We were embarrassments once again.
Fast forward to 2012 We know how this story ends.
Next year, another election year (totally irrelevant, but we like to look for patterns) 1988 was an election year. 1952 was an election year. I vote for another big year for KU hoops next election year.
But more seriously than the dumb election year hypothesis is the fact that we’ve been down before in serious ways and rebounded nicely. The pieces are there for a very solid team next year. I’m hoping that somehow Cliff is available. I’m hoping, probably vainly, that Kelly stays. Of course Perry needs to stay, although he could leave too.
-
@wissoxfan83
Like that positive perspective!
-
@wissoxfan83 great post. I was also looking at the 4 year pattern and consoling myself that next year could be final four.
-
@drgnslayr I’m with you that motivation is the key. Figuring out how to get the kids to play free and with passion. This is what has started to bother me about Self. He seems to motivate using negatives. Playing “not to lose,” quick hook for mistakes, berating players on the sidelines.
As cheesy as Marshall’s pre-game speech was (and as much as I dislike him), it was positive.
Many talk about how easy life must be with 9/10 OADs. But when you watch them play, they play free, they play hard. I hate it! I hate listening to Calipari say all the things I wish Bill Self would say. He talks about how his kids play for each other, and play with joy. Even platooning was a great way to allow the crazy amount of talent to play together and not see the bench as a place of punishment. Say what you will about how sleazy he may be, but he has a message, his players buy into it, and they use it to propel them to better play.
Can anyone remember a time this season when Self barked at the players on the side lines and they came out better after? Punishment doesn’t work as a motivator. It sometimes works as a deterrent but will never inspire or push someone to work harder. When I saw the look in Self’s eyes and the negative interaction during time outs I started to lose hope. Our players weren’t scared of the Shockers, they were scared of making mistakes. Scared of Self’s rage. Scared of a seat on the bench.
The only one’s who weren’t were Frank, Devonte, and Perry. Perry has had to learn to motivate himself (as @drgnslayr pointed out). Frank is naturally fearless (a rare quality), and Devonte has been reported to be atypically upbeat. Either Self needs to find more players with these intangibles or change his approach.
Criticism is important. It is one important way to improve. It is not the ONLY way to improve. I have heard more and more this year from announcers about Self getting “on them” in practice or in shoot around. They laugh and applaud his hard nosed approach. Again in no way am I opposed to a coach “getting on” his players, but if that is all you do than all you can hope for are players who play to not mess up.
This seems like a recent shift. In 2008 Darnell Jackson was all about “let your nuts hang” (which killed me when I heard FVV say it). EJ was “put yo shoes on.” T-Rob brought FOE. With this quiet team there was no positive message. No uplifting theme. Self needed to provide that. Yes, it is more authentic and effective if it comes from the players but if they guys don’t do it, someone has to.
I’m not upset that we lost to WSU. I’m not upset that our tournament is over. I am upset that I find myself more drawn to the messages of other coaches who seem to INSPIRE their players to greatness (or at least better than us).
-
@benshawks08 Oh boy! So Calipari says everything is great. His players play for each other for joy. That’s rich since most posters on this site think that nothing comes out of Cal’s mouth except lies. So is Cal showcasing his whole herd of players during the time of the year when they will get the most pub to show that they are ready for the league? Currently he has been playing a 7-8 man rotation. No more of the platoon bushwa. How do you know that those Mickey Ds at the end of the bench are happy as Cal tells the world that they are not really good enough?
That Bill Self is quite a slave master. What rage? Actually I have hardly seen Self as composed as he was yesterday. He even had a smile on his face a few times. I know, smiling is also a negative motivator.
Have you ever watched other coaches? Cal gets on his people like crazy. You must not remember last year when he threw about 1/2 of his team under the bus after the NIT loss.
Ever watch Roy? Dad gum he gets on people when they make mistakes. Think coach K is all giggles and grins? Have you ever seen him stare down a player in the huddle after a dumb move.
Have you read slayr’s and others comments about coaches they have had? How the coaches rode them to perform well. How they disliked them until later in life when they realized that the coach was trying to get the best out of them.
You must really hate to watch football. Now there is a game where coaches really grind on players.
-
@sfbahawk thx!
-
@sfbahawk I believe I implied I don’t like Calipari and think he is pretty slimy. I watch a lot of coaches and often see them get on players and as I said, that is fine. Most coaches yell, most stare at players, most at some point use volume as a motivator. It is my observation that Self tends to be a bit MORE negative than most. I am saying that perhaps he has lost a little bit of the balance of negative to positive reinforcement that has been present in the past. This years team (and last years too) had no message, no joy (minus a few fun moments from DG). It is a game and is supposed to be fun, and rarely did I see that from this team.
And I totally agree about Cal and his tendency to throw players under the bus once it is all said and done. Never will you here me say that Cal is a man of good character. And I certainly have a great deal more respect for Self and the way he handles our program.
This thread is called it’s Venting Time. So I vented. I tried to get out my most negative thoughts. Hopefully to be left with more positive ones. I guess that is what I get for going down the negative path. See it really doesn’t work! I’m usually more of the look on the bright side kind of guy. Maybe I’ll stick to that.
P.S. I’m not a big football fan but it doesn’t have much to do with the coaches.
-
@DoubleDD I think a year will make a difference. Will it make enough so that we become a title contender? I think we need a big man to go through (Cliff returns…not likely IMO, or one of the big man recruits). Like it or not, that is what Self needs to be successful.
