Joel Embiid vs. Karviar Shepherd - You Choose
-
@globaljaybird - It seems funny… Cal telling his guys to remain poised and in control, while he remains animated and with a terrifying look like his family is trapped in a house fire. It just doesn’t add up… but for those who aren’t really UK fans, it is extremely comical to watch! I catch most of the UK games and I’m never disappointed on the entertainment value.
Thanks for the link! Man… did that guy fly high or what?
-
@drgnslayr True, you are what you eat. These guys are just kids & they will most always display the same behavior as their coaches do under game conditions. Off the court-a whole different animal. When I coached, the jr high level was just about the most enjoyable age, mainly because most of the kids had not developed relationships with young girls yet, were physically gifted, & not quite old enough to display poor sportsmanship or publically undesirable behavior. I seriously believed that you lead by example. There were some exceptions sure, but those were my favorite years. And being from the burbs here in the KC metro, some of my kids were damn good players. I clearly recall an 8 yr old that was between the legs & behind the back more proficiently than most teenagers. I missed my calling slayr-I should have been a teacher & coach. Those were really fun years for sure. To me, finishing a degree is the most important thing going, as I dropped out beforehand for “love & money”…yeah right.
-
My take on OADs is that they’re basically salt. You might be healthier to swear it off completely, but without it, you’ll be left with a bland plate. Load up on too much, and it overwhelms the dish. But when you strike the right balance, it takes you to places your palate has only ever dreamed of.
Given the fact that we were replacing the starting 5, I think there was/is more room for salt this year than in a normal year. We were basically starting with a boiled potato of a team. There’s certainly nothing wrong with a boiled potato. If you’re starving, then it’s practically a feast. But KU has been dining too richly, grown too thick to really be sated by such a meager offering. Don’t get me wrong, though. Even the most nicely seasoned potato is no substitute for a full turkey dinner with all of the trimmings, but the way things looked from last year to this, we were no where near Thanksgiving time. Yet now, as the meal comes together, it looks like we may have been closer than we thought. We managed upon some leftover beef. We found some greens. And what we thought might start as stock is rapidly thickening into a fine gravy before our eyes. If the bird cooks up as nicely as it looked on the label, we’ll be gorging ourselves come March.
Still, I do share the larger concern about OADs. I don’t want KU to become UK. We don’t need a revolving door of talent. And we certainly don’t want any meals that consist solely of over-salted potatoes with no meat. I would rather get Embiid for two or three years than have him beget Turner and Zimmerman. In fact, I’m not really sold on Turner as it is. He’s not a very good offensive player and I think the comparisons he’s drawn to Anthony Davis are right out of left field (he doesn’t have any of the guard skills Davis has). Yeah, he’d be a great rim protector, but he think he’s more of a less explosive, higher BBIQ Nerlens Noel. Certainly not a bad thing to have, but also not worth having for one year if you can’t build around him. Not to mention, that Big Cliff is an excellent shot blocker in his own right (although he’s a swatter and that needs to change), and that we have Mickleson and Traylor as more defensively gifted bigs anyway.
I actually really like the way next year’s current class is shaping up. Although Big Cliff will likely OAD, he’s raw enough that I could see him coming back for a second or even third season to truly become NBA ready. Likewise, based on comments made by him and his father, I think Kelly Oubre is looking more for a 2-3 year college career. If you’ve followed his stats from this season, he’s scoring tons, but needs obvious work on his long ball before he takes it to the professional level. Although he will most certainly challenge whoever is left at the wing after the season ends, his role may become first guard off the bench unless his energy and defense win out. Where I do see a talent gap and were I have concern over the remainder of this year and next is at the PG position. Mason shows a lot of promise and may even be able to achieve a Sherron Collins type career in time, but he’s a couple years off, and that’s been more evident as Tharpe’s played better. For his part, I think Tharpe showed great leadership in Ames, but he’s still not nearly the player we need him to be on the defensive end, and he’s also not a consistent enough player on the offensive end. He’s shown recently that he’s capable of having big games, which is good, but I’d feel much better if he’d average 6/6/2.3 (p/a/to) than if he’s at 10/2/1. Regardless, I think we need to do a better job of attracting elite (especially defensively) pgs that have room for development. Being able to disrupt on the perimeter would make a huge difference in how we’ve done this season, as well as how we could do. I’d actually like to add Jaquan Lyle not inspite of his reported academic issues, rather, because of them for the reason that I think he could have a McLemore type trajectory (although I don’t think he’s psuedo-OAD material the way BMac turned out), sitting out a year, then coming in to an immediate impact role, and eventually leading the team his junior season.
So long and short, I think Embiid over Shepherd is where we want to be right now. I think Wigs over White is less of a deal overall, but he may be the player we needed to be competitive today rather than the guy we want to bring us wins in the future. And although I thought Selden was a lock for OAD earlier, I’m on the fence now. I still think he projects as an NBA 1, and if that rough patch he hit in December was truly his freshmen slump, then I think that’s where he’ll be headed this summer. But if he has too many more games where he fails to make a positive impact on the other either side of the ball, he’ll be back, and we’ll be better for it. There might be some opportunity cost there, especially if we’re going to retain at least one of Greene and White, but I think either outcome would please me, and either way, we’re in good shape for next season, and that’s all that really matters.
-
@globaljaybird - I think you have the right nature, sensibilities and basketball knowledge to be a great coach! It’s never too late to get back in! My coaching experience is limited… many moons ago I coached in Special Olympics and with the really small guys. Then I left for overseas for 20 years, which expanded my culture and basketball. I’m back now and I hope to get back into a bit of youth coaching soon. I have to admit, the most rewarding coaching, for me, was in the Special Olympics program. I’ve never had more fun and experienced so much enthusiasm in sports! Those kids totally rock! I wish everyone had their purity and enthusiasm!
@konkeyDong - Awesome analogy… great perspective on your post!
I think the book is still out on Turner. I see him as a project ahead of Withey at his age. He definitely has more potential than Withey on offense. It really is all about Turner’s focus on development… Hudy! Imagine that kid with some muscle!
I agree with you… next year’s team is shaping up well… though I’m sure we are still in for some shake ups to the roster.
And I’m with you on Tharpe needing to be a better defender. He can learn to be a great creator on offense, but if he turns right around and gives it all back on defense, what is the advantage we have with Tharpe?
Hard to say, this early, if next year’s team will have anyone go OAD. It’s just too soon to predict. A lot of that is perception and media buzz.
-
Speaking of Embiid…
Here is the twisted view from our “friends” over at USAToday:
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/01/kansas-joel-embiid-had-the-most-picture-perfect-missed-dunk/
Out of all the highlights from that game showing a positive outcome for Embiid, they show his one miss at a dunk. (and Embiid was fouled)
USAToday isn’t news… it’s media driven by an agenda.
-
So after reading all this, we should draft players that aren’t as good as other players so we can start all over with a losing season to develop more winning seasons?
-
I would toss this in … we had Simien, then Wright, Jackson, Kaun; we moved to Aldrich, and the Morrises; then to TRob and Withey; and now to Ellis. Not a OAD among them.
High talent level guys. At least two seasons.
Would you rather have that type of transition in your post players, or would you rather have Embiid one year, Turner the next, Zimmerman the next? Each year rolling the dice that you actually land the right one to continue the level of play?
-
@HighEliteMajor I understand what you mean HEM, but is hoping that each OAD is legit rolling the dice any more than hoping TRob develops as much as he did? Or the Morii and Withey making as much progress as they did. A lot of folks (myself included) would say they turned out much better than anticipated.
-
And most of those players still left early. How many of those guys did we get the full 4-year ride out of?
As soon as any of them get to draft status, they are gone! So… we only get one year at “all-star” level. I remember how bad the twins were in their freshman year. We didn’t know they could even dunk until sophomores.
They can be big duds when not OADs… at least if OADs are duds, they should return for another year or two and start to develop. In the least, the OAD dud is still probably better than the freshman 4-yr development player. I’d rather have the OAD back for year two… (in most cases)
I just think we would all benefit from a NBA rules change making these guys go two years to college, or none at all and straight to pros.
I think our situation will start leveling out next year… when we have a cast of mostly returning players and 2 or 3 new players, some of which could be OADs, but none for sure.
This is just a tough year for Kansas basketball starting from scratch. But at least we have dreams for this year… so… you could argue that this year has been made more typical than many would have thought. We are looking good for #10 and there is the chance this team could do something in March. I’m pretty sure that makes a typical Bill Self team more than the fact that we have a team full of freshmen (which we were going to have anyways unless he scored more transfers).
I don’t think we can really know the best way to go in recruiting until we give this method a try for 5 or so years. You have to have several seasons of it to see if Self adjusts to the changes and to have a decent enough size sample to make a judgment.
We could win it all this year and it still doesn’t mean this is the way to go. Maybe we win it all and then end up in the NIT for the next 4 years. I seriously doubt that will happen, but I doubt that will happen regardless what happens this March.
Still… no one knows what will happen… that is what makes this game so friggin’ addictive! I’m such a junkie… I’m really pathetic!
-
I think the real issue with players of OAD potential:
Can they play team ball? Do they require special treatment, which, in the process, helps destroy team chemistry?
I think Wiggins is sometimes too unselfish. I’m glad he’s starting to push his game more.
And we are now discovering that passing is one of Embiid’s true talents! His outlet passes off of defensive rebounds are the best I’ve ever seen of any big man ever to wear a college uniform! And on offense… he is starting to thrive off of being doubled by looking to hard pass to an open player. That one recent highlight showing him doubled and how he threw a hard baseball pass to the open guard on the opposite perimeter side was as good as it gets at the college level. You expect to see that kind of passing in the NBA, not college ball!
I’m still thrilled we have both Embiid and Wiggins! I just wish we had them longer! Who knows… maybe Embiid stays. Imagine that… Embiid staying? No team in college ball would have the slightest answer for handling Embiid next year… I’d say few have an answer for him now. The only answer is to draw him into fouls.
-
@bskeet I don’t understand why one views talk about how duopoly and oligopoly “coopetition” work as engaging in conspiracy theorizing. Duopoly and oligopoly are not only legal, but one of the most prevalent regimes in regional and global producer markets. Many, if not most respected scholars in economics, political economy and international relations recognize these regimes as prevalent. Some even view them as desirable ordering combining a favorable trade off between efficiency and stability. I have never fully agreed with the experts that argue this way, but it’s true that many respected scholars do lean this direction.
Regarding Nike, I can only speculate and opine, as I did about Adidas. If I were Nike, I would view myself as the hugely dominant player in D1 hoops. I would think my best play in that realm would be to stay on top by continuing to use my greater numbers of allied players and programs to try to take up as many slots on the grocery store shelf each year as possible. Numbers favor Nike. Adidas has the problem of how to avoid being swamped by Nike’s greater numbers. Therefore, it would seem Adidas’ best play would be to target top talent with better deals than Nike wants to offer it’s vastly larger stable of Nike leans. This logic would probably lead Adidas to want to keep taking the number 1 slot as many years as possible and concede to Nike numbers the remaining slots IMHO.
Next, it could possibly be that Nike expected reputed one time Nike lean Andrew Wiggins to sign with a Nike program, at the time the players last year made their decisions to go 1-2. I don’t recall the chronology, but I know Andrew waited a very long time, maybe so long prior decisions could not be feasibly reversed.
Regardless, I would see nothing necessarily illegal in oligopolists engaging in what some scholars call coopetition in the sports shoe and apparel producer market. I would find it more remarkable, if they did not. Rock Chalk!
-
@globaljaybird, not every thing, but it seems logical for them to take an interest in the players that might become hugely important to marketing their product globally for perhaps the next decade. It’s all just a hypothesis though.
-
@JayDocMD Actually, I think that all of the names I listed developed exactly as we should expect them to under coach Self. The numbers bear that out. But with a OAD, you have such a brief period of time to unleash the potential, thus the margin for error is much thinner.
@drgnslayr - you mention seeing this level out. I’m leery of our post positions leveling out. We have Ellis, who after 2014-15 may turn pro; but no top 50 talent either now, or for next season (other than OAD Alexander or possibly OAD Turner). If we get a top 50 for 2015 (non-OAD), those guys, many times, aren’t ready made to start (Morrises, TRob, Ellis, Withey, etc). So that’s where I’m a bit concerned.
-
@jaybate
Because of the outrageous amount of money paid for shoe endorsements… I’m suddenly taking your thoughts seriously about shoe companies. There is just way too much money being tossed around to not look closely at it and expect it’s an area where anything is possible.
It seems that Adidas most-effective way to compete with Nike is go with fewer athletes, but many at the top. Sort of a rifle approach instead of shotgun approach.
@HighEliteMajor - You can always worry about our post presence in a few years because anything can happen between now and then. Many of the top prospects in the post starting HS now aren’t on the radar yet… many yet to grow another 5 to 10 inches in the next two years. It’s just hard to say. After Alexander may come another player like Cliff or Randle who is ready-built. Or a transfer… I still have high hopes for Lucas. He has the best fundamentals of all our bigs now. Who is to say he won’t go crazy on Hudy this summer? Put some muscle on Lucas and we have a guy who could compete with anyone! He has already changed his body completely. He was full of baby fat before arriving in Lawrence. The guys who build really useful muscle mass spend a few years developing it and developing their game around it. That is totally different than pumping muscles up in a few months to look good in a magazine.
I don’t think people gave Withey enough credit for his hard work in the weight room. That guy added as much real strength as a guy can do (effectively) in just a couple of years. If he sticks with it now (in the pro ranks) he’ll become a journeyman player in the league. Those footers who can defend and have real strength rarely leave the league early (unless injured).
-
@drgnslayr I was fortunate to get involved with Special Olympics & work some bowling “tournaments” about 10 years ago. That is absolutely some of the most rewarding “work” one can do. Kids from SO are so brimming with unbridled love it kind of chokes me up to think about them. Many are not destined to live long or fulfilling lives either alone or with those that care for them. I wish everyone could experience the amount of pleasure we received from our involvement with SO.
-
@globaljaybird - RIght on! To coach in a world without animosity, judgements, egos… just warm, accepting hearts full of love and enthusiasm! For whatever aspects are missing from their lives because of their personal situations, they more than make up for it by being so special in all the right areas! I know I questioned many of my own behaviors and motivations after having that privilege! There is no better position anywhere for teaching what CAN happen on this planet!
Imagine if those attitudes and behaviors went beyond the doors of Special Olympics? The world would be one happy place!
-
@drgnslayr global, great posts!
-
@jaybate 1.0 And a sufficiently insightful one also I might add, heir jaymeister.
-
To Embiid or not to Embiid; this is the big question.
I am pretty sure Embiid will be gone at the end of the season, and if one year is all we get, I am good with it.
Folks, I don’t know if some of you really appreciate what we are witnessing. Many time I see the gentle giant go to work and I have to ask myself, did he just do that? We are watching the birth of a superstar. Years from now we will be telling the younger generation about the time we saw Embiid play, much like we occasionally hear from some one that saw Wilt play. Let’s enjoy the ride and the time we have Embiid at KU.
-
Joel Embiid or Karviar Shepherd guys?
I continue to eat my raw take of crow as Jojo was incredible last night, outdueling Giannis.
-
I really had to remember who Karviar Shepherd was
-
@BeddieKU23 said in Joel Embiid vs. Karviar Shepherd - You Choose:
I really had to remember who Karviar Shepherd was
Me too - -I have no clue who that is
-
@approxinfinity Wasn’t that beautiful the way it turned out?
-
@jayballer67 He was a center for TCU.
-
@Jethro said in Joel Embiid vs. Karviar Shepherd - You Choose:
@jayballer67 He was a center for TCU.
oh ya that’s right appreciate that. I DO remember him now
-
@approxinfinity had me thinking HEM was back.
-
@benshawks08 I’m sure he’s back just as a different name.
-
~ 8 years later ~
lol… nice seeing HEM and Jaybate in here and how involved all of us were in posting!
-
@drgnslayr you’re right, it really is nice to see how much we contributed back then. Time to dig deep!
-
It makes me wonder… are we all changed somewhat? If so… how much influence is coming from our Covid existence and from recent societal changes?
I’ve noticed a growing sensitivity in people where they take fewer chances speaking out because of fear of being challenged or attacked.
-
@drgnslayr maybe. I’m not too worried about what people think. I think it’s more fatigue, health concerns, the stress of navigating COVID with a family, the changing economic landscape and general BS that has taken up (or wiped out) my thoughts. Maybe in times of stress people are less inclined to expound on their thoughts with an extended audience.
-
Haven’t seen @Marco around either.
-
Kind of spooky when people disappear in here.
Am I correct on these two:
HEM - seemed to just get tired of posting here because of the friction he faced.
Jaybate - had disappeared and reappeared before, but finally vanished in thin air!
I wish both would make a guest appearance!
-
@drgnslayr another person I miss is @bcjayhawk. She was another one us 3 gals on here. I think she might’ve been from western ks. She was always pleasant. Then the older gentleman rooster? Sad! Wheres lump? I really miss him too. The ones that leave cause they’re mad, I don’t care. The others I worry about. FOE.
-
I come from a monster-size family where everyone liked to fight. haha…
So I miss confrontational communication! (ie fighting)
Yes… I miss lump, and bcjayhawk, too. I definitely like having more women post. Just seems like they offer a different perspective than us knuckle-draggers! lol
-
Should we have recruit a friend or family member month?
-
Or maybe we should all go on an expedition and participate in a Wisconsin, Kentucky, or UNC message board as one trolling horde
-
We have a Jayhawk watch party group around here or did pre Covid but I never ended up going. That kind of thing might be a place to drop kubuckets.com feelers. I’m assuming they still do it.
-
Jayhawkfantoo, you’re always welcome to post. I see your upvotes, so you might as well join the party.
