Bevo Steak Tastes Bad Game Thread
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Anybody see post game?
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Braun playing 4 minutes. Self is sealing our fate here in typical Self fashion.
Some coaches play for March. Some don’t. He doesn’t. He’s probably more worried about winning a meaningless conference title.
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@HighEliteMajor Braun sucked today when he was in. I’m not afraid to criticize Self but Braun is not a huge factor in how far this KU team will go in the tournament.
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@BShark I agree about Braun today but also see @HighEliteMajor That he doesn’t coach for March in the slightest. I was surprised that Tristan didn’t get many minutes with how inefficient Ochai and Braun both were.
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Tristan was awful when he played. He has been bad lately. I’m not surprised that two freshman are not consistent. I wish our bench was better.
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BShark said:
@Crimsonorblue22 Wonder if his camp is still blaming Bill for his performance when he was given every opportunity here, never benched.
Telling that HCBS wouldn’t bench him, but Kelvin Sampson has. Grimes averaging 6-7 points over his last 5 games. Don’t wish ill of the kid. Just ridiculous that he isn’t close to one of the best players for Houston in the AAC, yet somehow HCBS was convinced that he deserved to play 30 minutes a game for the Jayhawks - all visual and statistical evidence to the contrary…
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@DCHawker who was Bill going to play, Teahan? I guess Charlie Moore or KJ Lawson. All options sucked last year after Doke got hurt and Vick was told to pound sand.
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Next year we might finally have a full roster. Though Bill will mainly play 6-7 guys as always.
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This win keeps us in the race. Great to see… hoping we can get back to the vintage foot-on-the-throat-of-the-conference mode.
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@BShark self has given those 3 chances, when they produced they got more time. Gotta be ready!
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BShark said:
Next year we might finally have a full roster. Though Bill will mainly play 6-7 guys as always.
I’ll just be glad to add a dam shooter.
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BShark said:
Tristan was awful when he played. He has been bad lately. I’m not surprised that two freshman are not consistent. I wish our bench was better.
hell about the only time I seen Tristian today was as just about as long it took for him to tie his shoe’s lol
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@jayballer73 gotta hope for some internal improvement mostly. We gain Bryce but lose Moss. Braun, Wilson and Agbaji can make shots but we need them improved and healthy. Don’t think Tyon is much of a shooter but he is a good player.
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BShark said:
@DCHawker who was Bill going to play, Teahan? I guess Charlie Moore or KJ Lawson. All options sucked last year after Doke got hurt and Vick was told to pound sand.
Fair enough - although he was keeping him as a starter before the Vick implosion. Bigger issue is what does it say about our depth and recruiting when the almighty Houston Cougars can relegate him to the bench and be better off as a result…
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@DCHawker today they said he was their #1 scorer til conference and now, #2.
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@BShark I see Braun’s development as critical to our chances in March. Otherwise we have no 5th perimeter player. Dave will be irrelevant in many games.
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@DCHawker last year was a very bad situation brought on by failed recruiting in previous years leading to a large influx of transfers. Charlie was a baffling take a terrible fit with Self as I stated at the time. KJ probably should have played more, imo.
To be fair Grimes did still play 23 minutes today.
There is also the unfortunate politik aspect. I think that was a factor here.
@HighEliteMajor part of it today was the opponent. This was a David game. He played well and got 20 minutes. There will be games, like you suggest where he isn’t as playable, and plays mainly only as Doke’s back-up. In these games there will be more perimeter minutes. Seems like Bill is maybe taking a hot hand approach with Moss and Braun. I’m not fully sure. Self definitely clenched today and did his usual play six guys in a big game thing. It’s just who he is. Bill will never play a real 9 player rotation in games that matter. Tristan, Silvio and Braun all had a short leash today. Braun needed to be more assertive.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@DCHawker today they said he was their #1 scorer til conference and now, #2.
That is true - was their leading scoring at 13 ppg and just behind in second now - and averaging 30 mpg. But something is clearly amiss given that he is no longer starting and in his last 5 games his scoring totals are 10, 5, 5, 4 and 10.
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@DCHawker oh, I agree w/u. I saw most of the game, missed a wide open bunny! Traveled. Made all or most of his throws. Playing not to screw up is an awful way to play.
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BShark said:
@jayballer73 gotta hope for some internal improvement mostly. We gain Bryce but lose Moss. Braun, Wilson and Agbaji can make shots but we need them improved and healthy. Don’t think Tyon is much of a shooter but he is a good player.
if we can get Ajbaji to improve and really work on his three this coming off season put him with Bryce , would be nice - there is times he just disappears though next year especially he can’t disappear for sur, he will or should be one of the leaders his JR year. - -I have confidence I his 3 point shooting I think he will be fine. - He just going to have to work a little harder though to get that shot
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@BShark Kind of a David game. But that’s really the issue. If we are half in on Dave 3/2, half in on 4/1, we compromise our ability to reach our peak one way or the other.
We have to stomach the bad and commit to Braun. Four minutes is a joke. We have no idea what the next 4, 8, or 12 minutes would have looked like. If Self didn’t play Braun because he sucked in his four minutes, Self is foolish. Really, Self played Dave because he thought it was best TODAY. Completely short- sighted. And Dave was so-so today. One nice stretch.
This goes to Self’s historical over emphasis on the regular season. What do we need to be in March? Does he really care about March or the precious Big 12?
We should play 4/1 ALL THE TIME even if it means a loss. All the time. We won’t get to the FF piece-mealing this. And we won’t get to the FF as a 3/2 team.
We need to try and perfect what gives us a title chance, and play the players necessary to reach our peak. My opinion.
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Braun had 24 & 25 mins in the OU and ISU game
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Right, but Self, myopically, plays him 4 today because of this useless game. How he sees winning today. This demonstrates the absurdity of the PT today. We have just one NC in his tenure. One NC in 32 years.
All we have to achieve that is of value is the NC. We’ve achieved everything else.
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@HighEliteMajor so you think other coaches are playing subs who aren’t playing well, just to play well in March-April, giving up wins now?
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I think it’s more important to keep guys fresh. If anything the heavy minutes Self plays his best players can grind them out a bit by the end of the season.
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I think that it is a very regular occurrence that coaches play to perform in March. Duke and UK are two that plainly have done that. Nova the same. Gary Parish was on with Soren Petro last week discussing the same topic. Parish was saying he isn’t smart enough to criticize Self but pointed out the clear contrast in approach.
I’m focused on the 4/1. Dave and Doke together are a disaster. Today was the outlier. Look at the +/- posted by @BeddieKU23 this past week.
Would you agree that the more you do something and have experience, the better you can be? The answer is obvious. In fact, there are Self quotes in the past few years about how getting game experience is very important. Which is obvious.
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@HighEliteMajor I fully agree that we should go to 4 guards. I’m a bit shocked that Self has not made this decision after the recent success with guard heavy lineups that we have had.
I can’t say I agree on playing to March. To me, you play to win every game and it appears that Duke and Kentucky do the same. I watched the Duke game yesterday and they basically played 6 guys the entire game. Kentucky went a little deeper but was predominantly a 7 man rotation. This seems consistent to me with most major programs. A couple of guys who thought they would be major contributors simply don’t get a lot of minutes.
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Kentucky’s minute distribution is incredibly similar to ours but that doesn’t fit the narrative.
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HighEliteMajor said:
Right, but Self, myopically, plays him 4 today because of this useless game. How he sees winning today. This demonstrates the absurdity of the PT today. We have just one NC in his tenure. One NC in 32 years.
All we have to achieve that is of value is the NC. We’ve achieved everything else.
Right Bill has ONE National Championship in his tenure. Yet in Comparison , how many championships does Calipari have at Kentucky during his tenure there? - Seems like Bill’s One National Championship is against Coach Cal when he was at Memphis wasn’t it?
People seem to wanna think that they just hand these Championships out an a silver platter. - There are so many things that have to fall into place to win a Championship. - -including right combinations, who’s playing the best ball at the time. It’s a crap shoot. Can you imagine how the people at Kentucky feel? As many top tier 5 * recruits they have had there since Coach has been there, and only ONE National Championship. They should of have had at least 2-3 right?
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HighEliteMajor said:
I think that it is a very regular occurrence that coaches play to perform in March. Duke and UK are two that plainly have done that. Nova the same. Gary Parish was on with Soren Petro last week discussing the same topic. Parish was saying he isn’t smart enough to criticize Self but pointed out the clear contrast in approach.
I’m focused on the 4/1. Dave and Doke together are a disaster. Today was the outlier. Look at the +/- posted by @BeddieKU23 this past week.
Would you agree that the more you do something and have experience, the better you can be? The answer is obvious. In fact, there are Self quotes in the past few years about how getting game experience is very important. Which is obvious.
well with your reason that it is a very regular occurrence that Coach’s play to preform in March and then point out UK, then I will again refer to UK since you was talking about that Bill had only won one National Championship , and I’m not saying that they don’t but since you seem to bring up Kentucky as clearly playing that way again Has Kentucky won any more Championships then KU and Self? - -That would be big fat NO.
I think all teams in Basketball play to preform in March I mean isn’t that the goal of the Season. Different teams play different ways. - You go with what is working for you - if it isn’t working for you then you make a change. - Yesterday Dave and Doke worked Better , not great by any means but better then the other. Braun like they said looked timid again these last two three games he has been less & Tristian just looks totally lost right now to0. There are times Doke and Dave are disaster’s then others they look playable , today was one of those days - looked better then the 4-1 TODAY. you play to match ups today was one of those days
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Woodrow said:
https://twitter.com/jessenewell/status/1218893651314724866?s=21
Still the #11 ADJO on Kenpom too. Offense is just down nation wide.
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The problem is Dave is one of the 3 best players on the team. Bill has to get him minutes. Dok is the best player; he needs the most minutes possible. It’s hard to not pair them at some point during the game. Bill starts off that way to see how it goes then switches to a four guard lineup to feel it out. If KU has more than three good guards the 4-1 would be the obvious choice, but with the personnel it’s hard to be exclusive to one offensive set.
Funny how a stubborn, unchanging man’s unwillingness to commit to one offensive style has people’s cockles up. Dude can’t win.
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Interesting you think Dave is one of the 3 best players? Any reasoning behind that
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dylans said:
Funny how a stubborn, unchanging man’s unwillingness to commit to one offensive style has people’s cockles up. Dude can’t win.
Except he’s won 482 games at KU, 681 games overall as head coach.
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@BeddieKU23 I’d probably put him 4th (behind Dotson, Doke and Garrett) but there is no doubt he is one of the five best players on the team. That’s not even a question.
@tundrahok I believe Dylans is referring to the fact that no matter what Self does, some posters will never be happy.
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@BeddieKU23 Advanced stats, PER specifically.
Top qualified players -
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Udoka - 28.5
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Dotson - 24.9
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McCormack - 23.7
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Garrett - 17.5
Maybe Elijah Elliot needs to play more he’s got a PER north of 25 too. Lol
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@BShark I know. My comment was really directed at those other posters. Some people think only one game matters each season, the last one. If that were true, we’d miss out on a lot of joy along the way.
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PER does tend to favor bigs by its nature. I think Garrett is a very important player for us. Agbaji has the potential to be good but he isn’t there yet.
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@BShark Garrett is more important. I just think Dave is better. Not necessarily better for the team, just as an individual. Garrett does more for the team, he might be the mvp, even though KU will only go as far as Dotson takes them.
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@dylans Fair enough. It’s kind of difficult to compare guards and bigs. Garrett, while injured, has really stepped up his game when needed in conference play. The only game he hasn’t scored double digits was Iowa State when everyone was cooking.
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@BShark It’s also biased towards offensive performance. I’m actually pleased to see Garrett ranked so highly based on that stat. Shows how much his offense has improved this season.
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Woodrow said:
https://twitter.com/jessenewell/status/1218893651314724866?s=21
hmmm facts kind of seen to speak for themselves huh? we might not like it – but who are we to ask I really think the 3-2 looks ugly a lot of times too but offensive tops big 12. - -guess you could look at THAT in two different ways though too , The Big 12 is pretty weak this year - hell I dunno we could go back and forth on these things all day I reckon
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dylans said:
The problem is Dave is one of the 3 best players on the team. Bill has to get him minutes. Dok is the best player; he needs the most minutes possible. It’s hard to not pair them at some point during the game. Bill starts off that way to see how it goes then switches to a four guard lineup to feel it out. If KU has more than three good guards the 4-1 would be the obvious choice, but with the personnel it’s hard to be exclusive to one offensive set.
Funny how a stubborn, unchanging man’s unwillingness to commit to one offensive style has people’s cockles up. Dude can’t win.
Agree
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tundrahok said:
dylans said:
Funny how a stubborn, unchanging man’s unwillingness to commit to one offensive style has people’s cockles up. Dude can’t win.
Except he’s won 482 games at KU, 681 games overall as head coach.
and yet there are people that wanna challenge his decisions
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jayballer73 said:
tundrahok said:
dylans said:
Funny how a stubborn, unchanging man’s unwillingness to commit to one offensive style has people’s cockles up. Dude can’t win.
Except he’s won 482 games at KU, 681 games overall as head coach.
and yet there are people that wanna challenge his decisions
Always will be, but I’m glad as long as it’s not ugly. Keeps it lively in here!
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dylans said:
jayballer73 said:
tundrahok said:
dylans said:
Funny how a stubborn, unchanging man’s unwillingness to commit to one offensive style has people’s cockles up. Dude can’t win.
Except he’s won 482 games at KU, 681 games overall as head coach.
and yet there are people that wanna challenge his decisions
Always will be, but I’m glad as long as it’s not ugly. Keeps it lively in here!
love lively- -just not TO lively lol
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Hi everyone. As bad as the first half was it got some what better ib the 2nd. The flow of the game was out of sync. At the 8 minute mark an older lady behind UT bench had a heart attack and play stopped for awhile and all the commercials didn’t allow either team any rhythm. But the charge/block of Marcus was the game changer. I lucked out on my seats. 4 fans from Topeka who hated KSUcks as much as i do were behind me and 2 guys in front and 2 girls from Wichita next to me. Was fun when Devon made that 3 to seal the game as all the UT fans bailed. We sang the chant and it was beautiful. A young kid who sat next to me last year came by with his mom to say hi after the game!! I’ve met so many great fans over the years. I met Devon’s uncle and aunt and showed them and another couple where they come out to get the bus and she told Devon when he came out to ‘sign this nice lady’s book’ and he did! I got 3 media guides from HCBS earlier in the season so i had each player sign their page along with the coaches and even Gurley and Hanni and the team doctor i know. Hudy was around pregame and eas hugging everyone but Coach said he never got to talk to her when I was getting my picture with him. Did more videos than photos but it won’t let me post here from my phone. Too big. Saw Dedrick and high fived all the Austin Spurs guys there with him.
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@RockChalkinTexas - what an awesome day!
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RockChalkinTexas said:
Hi everyone. As bad as the first half was it got some what better ib the 2nd. The flow of the game was out of sync. At the 8 minute mark an older lady behind UT bench had a heart attack and play stopped for awhile and all the commercials didn’t allow either team any rhythm. But the charge/block of Marcus was the game changer. I lucked out on my seats. 4 fans from Topeka who hated KSUcks as much as i do were behind me and 2 guys in front and 2 girls from Wichita next to me. Was fun when Devon made that 3 to seal the game as all the UT fans bailed. We sang the chant and it was beautiful. A young kid who sat next to me last year came by with his mom to say hi after the game!! I’ve met so many great fans over the years. I met Devon’s uncle and aunt and showed them and another couple where they come out to get the bus and she told Devon when he came out to ‘sign this nice lady’s book’ and he did! I got 3 media guides from HCBS earlier in the season so i had each player sign their page along with the coaches and even Gurley and Hanni and the team doctor i know. Hudy was around pregame and eas hugging everyone but Coach said he never got to talk to her when I was getting my picture with him. Did more videos than photos but it won’t let me post here from my phone. Too big. Saw Dedrick and high fived all the Austin Spurs guys there with him.
Boy sounds like you had a great time. I would of been in 7 th heaven. So glad you had a good time. - Your right the game was pretty choppy, sure hope the lady is ok - -bad situation , got heart conditions myself so I feel for her.
would be awesome to be able to meet Devons family and other things - -good for you again love seeing the opposing teams fans file for the exits. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
