Florida Gators
-
@HighEliteMajor The problem was giving the new kids the keys to the car. Like you said, they weren’t ready for it, and they wrapped the car around a telephone pole. Which is why Cliff isn’t starting, why Kelly is pulling 6 minutes a game, and partly why Devonte’s minutes are limited. Svi is in a different category because he isn’t a freshman, although he’s a freshman. I think Coach is doing a much better job ( so far) of dealing with the OAD issue than he did last year, so I hold out hope we can continue to land top recruits without sacrificing the core elements that make this team the Jayhawks. What I saw against MSU was the Jayhawks - I’m still not sure what I saw last year, but we didn’t look like the Jayhawks.
My hope is we can blend in the OADs, so we don’t have to rely on the Naadir Tharpes. Naadir is the poster child of the Peter Principle.
-
@KUSTEVE seriously, jethro, you didn’t see a team last year? The team I watched won the big 12. I blame most of the problem on not having upperclassmen leaders last year. There’s no doubt in my mind, a healthy Embiid was a longer season! I love the D the guys are playing this year, but they are just better than the overall team D last year. The worse D last year was by the upperclassmen .
-
@Crimsonorblue22 said:
@drgnslayr Greene really needs to not pass it to the guy on the other team that is standing at the top of the key between greene and his teammate. That guy has arms and can move! That pass drives me nuts!
He wasn’t the only one in that Michigan St game that did that, there were 4 or 5 passes at the top of the key there were soft and got stolen. Seldon had one and I think Graham had one too.
But yeah strong passes, quick passes, no sticky hands, move the ball by passing unless you are going to drive the lane then dribble.
-
“But yeah strong passes, quick passes, no sticky hands, move the ball by passing unless you are going to drive the lane then dribble.”
I see the dilemma our guys are in sometimes.
They are being told to move the ball, don’t let the ball stick. Good advice. But in order for that to be successful there has to be equal responsibility with the players receiving the ball. That is where we often fail most, and no one mentions it. The blame always goes to the passer. This has always been a flaw with Kansas basketball and a big part of why we (historically) have too many TOs.
The receiver first needs to make sure there is enough space in a passing lane to receive the ball. That means movement, fakes, doing whatever is needed to create the space. Usually it takes CONSTANT ENERGY!
The second thing is the receiver has to anticipate the pass. They should react sooner than the defender.
The third thing is the receiver has to be aware of defenders going for the ball.
The fourth thing is the receiver needs to aggressively go for the ball. It won’t be often that the receiver will be called for the foul on a collision. The foul usually goes to the defender, especially if the receiver got a good jump on the ball.
The dilemma comes when the passer doesn’t really have anyone to pass it to but he is instructed to not let the ball stick. So the passer has a dilemma… pass the ball but no one is open. That often creates a conflict within the head of the passer and that’s usually when you see guys passing soft and pretty much right to the defender. Ever wonder why you see that happen? The mechanical process of throwing the pass is interrupted by the conflict within the head of the passer. Sometimes they are just trying to stop the body while in the motion of passing, often creating comical mistakes and the ball might just go anywhere, and usually very slowly. Other times, the entire process is smooth but slow, because the conflict was there for a while in the passer’s head, but it didn’t get resolved so the motion continues at a slow “cautious” speed.
Anyone who has played much ball has faced this dilemma once in a while. But at Kansas, we aren’t teaching enough responsibility with the receivers to help prevent more of it from happening.
-
Should be a good test vs a Billy Donovan coached team. I’d like to see how this year’s team handles the 1-3-1 and traps that Billy will throw at Bill. Hate to say it this way, but no Wilbiken + no Tharpe = KU win. Mason VERY likely will be the best guard on the floor, and I hereby retract my statements about Ellis being “soft”…his new aggressiveness is just what Self new we needed.
See, Self wont let a top30 guy play below expectations (see Selden explode momentarily…), and his magic is when his ‘developmental track’ guys play big in games (once ready). The trick with max extraction from the top30 guys is to have them for 2-3 yrs. Same applies to any top30 guys, such as Kentucky’s, too…if you ever wondered what Calipari’s team would look like if guys came back for another year, you are seeing it now, by happenstance with this years’ KY.
Stated another way, if the NBA made it a 2AD rule, the top recruiters’ teams would be that much more stacked, and would be monster Div.1 products.
-
We will see tonight if we continue to show we are a better team than last year. Tourney win was very nice rebound from UK debacle. It’s always nice to play back in Allen, lately it seems we have spent too much time away from home.
.com Said practice wasn’t that good yesterday. Usually not a good recipe for game day although I’ve pointed out this Florida isn’t the same as the last 3-4 years. Eli Carter a starting guard is unlikely to play tonight as well leaving them with 8 scholly players. We should wear them out in the 2nd half
-
@Crimsonorblue22 I didn’t see hard nosed, tough defense. I saw the worst passing team I can remember. I saw the worst ball handling I can remember. I saw a team that couldn’t handle the slightest pressure, with or without Embiid. In short, it wasn’t a typical Jayhawk team. Never said I didn’t see a team - just not a Jayhawk team I have grown accustomed to seeing.
-
@drgnslayr Agreed.
If you ever watched Creighton play last year Doug Mcdermott never stood still if he didn’t have the ball. He was always creating for his teammates and himself. They all made great passes, because he saw passing lanes and got to the right places to make it look easy.
Brady Morningstar was a very underrated passer, he would hit guys coming off of screens, always had to be ready to catch it if he had the ball. He was quick and knew what he wanted to do with the ball.
Anytime you come off a screen, or off a pick and roll you should have your hands up ready to catch it. Even if the ball isn’t coming to you, you get defenders trying to jump the passing lane and then you have the back door cut available.
As you said the you have to know the defender wants to get to the ball as well. step into the pass, step into the catch.
The other thing I saw that KU missed vs MIchSt was the cross court pass. Sheldon would have it on one side and Green would be open or Svi on the other side and the whole D was in the paint or towards the ball. A strong two handed over head pass can get that ball over there quickly and make for an easy three.
We used to have to practice coming down the court and all three perimeter players had to swing the ball back and forth, this while the D guys knew it, so you had to pass quick hard and know where your guy was going to be. Once you got in the game, it was slower and easier to do.
-
I also have the DVR set to record the UK/TU game right before our tip off. If Texas loses by 32 then Basketball is broken.
-
I believe a lot of problems with defense last year can be attributed to the implementation of the new contact rules that penalized teams that payed hard nosed defense, such as KU, more heavily than it did teams that concentrate on offense.
FWIW, I don’t believe I would ever characterize Wiggins as a ball hog; just my opinion and obviously we disagree. BTW, Wiggins was named Rookie Player of the Month in the NBA.
-
The talking heads at ESPN Daily Word take on the game:
"1. Florida’s first true road game comes at Phog Allen Fieldhouse. How can the Gators stay in the game?
Andy Katz: Make shots. Florida’s defense wasn’t the issue in the Bahamas. But the Gators couldn’t shoot. If Michael Frazier II gets hot, then the Gators have a chance. They need someone to be a shot maker.
Eamonn Brennan: I don’t want to say they can’t, because Kansas has shown plenty of flaws of its own this season. The good news for Florida is the Jayhawks aren’t forcing any turnovers so far this season – which was among the Gators’ issues in their three losses thus far. The bad news is Kansas is pretty good at disallowing good looks at the rim, and the Gators have shot just 29.5 percent from 3 and 44.1 percent from 2. It would take a totally different performance for Florida to leave Lawrence with a win.
C.L. Brown: The only time the Gators started 3-3 under Billy Donovan was his first year in Gainesville. Their confidence has taken a beating, but staying poised is the only way they have a chance of winning in Phog Allen. Florida will need point guard Kasey Hill to assert some serious leadership in that environment."
The key will be not letting Frazier get off. Gators will struggle to score if he isn’t hitting from deep. Overplay Frazier and make other guys step up - I don’t think they will.
Legit observation about our lack of creating turnovers, however. We don’t anticipate well. Ties into the point that @drgnslayr made re lack of fundamentals on the offensive side. OADs and McDs are all long on talent, but woefully short on basic basketball fundamentals. Key reason that talent doesn’t always win out.
-
@JayHawkFanToo I had brought up the rules thing in another post, related to perhaps why our D struggled a bit. So I agree there. Good point. Everyone played by the same rules though – I think it affected us a bit more because of the inherent physicality in the style Self teaches.
I attribute most of the ball hogging to Self directing him to be the man, etc., and not to Wiggins. But how many times could the guy drive and simply ignore open teammates? If Ebola is an epidemic, Wiggins failing to pass the ball was a pandemic – it affected everybody, and everything.
-
Fyi, two guys – Kasey Hill and Chris Walker – were high on our list. Both went to Florida. Interesting to assess their performances.
We’ll smoke Florida tonight, 10-12 point win.
-
The Big 12-SEC series so far is looking good for the conference, cumulative record in parenthesis:
- Texax Tech beats Auburn (1-0)
- LSU beats WVU in hearth breaker (1-1)
- Baylor beats Vanderbilt (2-1)
- ISU trounces Arkansas (3-1)
- TCU smacks Ole Miss; TCU is much, much improved (4-1)
Today:
- Kentucky - Texas (at UK). UK favorite by 13, but if Texas bigs can neutralize UK size advantage I see it in single digits (4-2)
- Florida -KU (at KU). Florida missing its four seniors and nowhere near the team they were last year. Vegas line is KU by 7-1/2 but I see KU by double digits when you factor AFH and payback. (5-2)
- Missouri - Oklahoma (at OU). Line is 13-1/2 and I believe it will be close to that. (6-2)
Tomorrow:
- Oklahoma State - South Carolina (at USC). Line started as a pick and now is OSU by3 and it will close to that when you consider game location (7-2)
- Kansas State - Tennessee (at UT). Line started as a pick and now is UT by 2. When you factor the home advantgae, this game is truly a pick. A good game by Foster and KSU gets the win. I will predict KSU wins. (8-2)
I really don’t see any scenario where the Big 12 loses the series, it is more of a question of how badly they beat the SEC. While a 8-2 final result is possible, the two games tomorrow could go either way, so most likely is 7-3 and worst and most unlikely outcome is 6-4.
-
@DanR Glad to see I am not the only one who believes that Kelly will get his mojo. I read this article last week and was glad to see that Gary Parrish (CBS Sports) addressed it and even more impressed with the response by Kelly! Rock Chalk!
Kelly Oubre has a world of talent, but it might take awhile before he can flourish with Kansas.
LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. – When I caught up with Kelly Oubre on Thursday he was getting ready to board the team bus idling in the parking lot here at the HP Field House, Beats By Dre headphones on his ears, a welcoming-smile on his face.
And I wasn’t expecting that, frankly.
The welcoming-smile kind of surprised me.
Because, let’s be honest, when you’re projected as a future lottery pick but currently buried on Kansas’ bench, the last thing you’d want to do, I’d imagine, is talk to me (or somebody like me) about a transition from high school to college that’s not going smoothly, especially after you just scored two points in four minutes of a 76-60 win over Rhode Island.
Only four players are ahead of Oubre on DraftExpress.com’s big board.
But nine different Jayhawks played more minutes than him on Thanksgiving.
And considering this was the second time in four outings he’s played just four minutes, and because he’s only averaging nine minutes per game, I assumed Oubre would be quiet or defensive or … I don’t know … something less than welcoming. But he wasn’t any of those things. Kelly Oubre was totally cool – perhaps because, though I might be the first columnist to pull him aside and ask what’s up, I’m hardly the first person to ask what’s up.
"Yeah, I’ve gotten that a lot lately … because, you know, I’ve never been in a situation like this," Oubre said. "I’ve always been at the top. But just keeping my confidence 100 is all I can do right now, and I’m just going to continue to do what coach needs me to do."
There are bigger stories in college basketball – stories about how Big East schools already own quality wins over North Carolina, Michigan, VCU, Florida and Oklahoma, stories about how Kentucky’s size in the frontcourt is proving overwhelming for everybody, stories about how Duke looks like a composed and veteran team even though Mike Krzyzewski is starting three freshmen. But a more fascinating story, at least to me, is unfolding this weekend at the Disney Wide World of Sports Complex, and it centers on a freshman who is, for the first time in his life, dealing with on-the-court adversity.
Off-the-court-adversity?
Sure, Kelly Oubre has dealt with that before.
He was born in New Orleans and lived there until fourth grade, when he relocated to the Houston area after Hurricane Katrina wrecked his hometown. That, by definition, is off-the-court adversity. But basketball has always been simple, relatively speaking. And Oubre’s unique combination of size and athleticism helped him become a McDonald’s All-American, earn a spot on a USA Basketball roster, and finish his high school career ranked No. 8 in the Class of 2014, according to 247 Sports.
Consequently, most figured Oubre would start on the wing as a freshman at Kansas, just like Andrew Wiggins did last season. And he might still, someday. But that wasn’t the case Thursday. And it almost certainly won’t be the case Friday or Sunday. Which, again, has produced a rare situation at Kansas, one where a lottery projection is 10th on his own team in minutes per game, and fourth among freshmen on his own team in minutes per game.
That’s wild and surprising.
It’s something I asked Bill Self to address.
“Mario Chalmers didn’t play till Christmas [of his freshman year], Julian Wright didn’t play till Christmas, Joel [Embiid] didn’t start until like the eighth game of the season,” Self said. "So there’s a process everybody has to go through, and we have a couple of guys – obviously Kelly but also Cliff [Alexander] – who are going through it.
“They’re going to be terrific players,” Self added. “But they’re not terrific players yet.”
This, by the way, is the only thing Self concerns himself with.
He doesn’t care about recruiting rankings or mock drafts, and he actually thinks they do more harm than good because, he believes, “they put unfair expectations” on prospects like Oubre and Alexander, the latter of whom is another projected lottery pick averaging just 16.3 minutes per game. All Self does each year is assemble a roster, develop it and, every single game, use the players he thinks best give him a chance to win that particular game, and it’s hard to argue with his strategy given that he’s won 10 straight Big 12 titles.
Still, I’d be lying if I said it’s not strange to watch Oubre wear warmups all game, and Oubre would be lying if he said this is how he expected to spend November. Because it’s not. He expected to play and wants to play. He’s not sure what to make of this. But everybody – from Self to his assistants to KU’s other players – insisted, both publicly and privately, that Oubre is handling things well, and that, if nothing else, is a good sign.
“Kelly has a great attitude,” said fellow freshman Devonte Graham, who is averaging twice as many minutes per game as Oubre. “When you’re a top player in the country, like he was coming out of high school, you just expect to come in and have a great year when you get to college, and it’s not going great for him right now. But his attitude is amazing. And when he gets out of this little slump, he’s going to be one of the best players on the team.”
Oubre nodded at this hypothetical.
Yes, he knows people are wondering about him, and, absolutely, he understands why. But he promised he hasn’t lost sight of the larger picture, and he swore he’s simply embracing the process while still planning to be what everybody predicted he’d be.
#“Once I get the hang of everything, it’s over,” Oubre said. “I know I’m going to be great.”#
-
Causing turnovers is something I see Devonte doing. I hope his shoulder is ok so he can get his long arms into the passing lanes. Frank, Svi and Wayne will take care of Frasier tonight.
-
@wrwlumpy @RockChalkinTexas - Let me join in. I think Oubre will get going, too. I think he can become a solid part of the rotation. I hope Self plays the kid, lets him get acclimated. Then Self will have to decide the minutes allocation. But Oubre needs to get some PT to determine his later role.
-
Tonight’s game, which do you think will happen?
- Oubre plays less than 10 minutes
- Oubre plays 10 minutes
- Oubre plays more than 10 minutes
I will take option 3; I am an optimist.
-
@JayHawkFanToo I would choose 1. I think he gets his minutes increase after the Utah game.
-
I’m calling it now! Oubre breaks out and has his coming out party tonight! He’s so good it’s only a matter of time!
-
Foul trouble or made baskets when he gets into the game are probably the only way 3. happens.
It would be nice if Oubre got some confidence seeing the ball go in the hoop, or being disruptive on Defense.
-
Anyone know if Cliff is starting tonight? It would make sense.
-
@hawkster88 said:
Anyone know if Cliff is starting tonight? It would make sense.
Same starting line up as last 3 games.
-
Apparently when they watched the game film from last years Disaster in Florida, they took it as well we might as well have an “encore” disaster. Truly don’t understand this team, could be worst loss at home in forever
-
This is a worse half than the second half against UK.
No defense whatsoever; Florida is wide open all the time. If KU continues to play this way, it will be lucky to finish in the top half of the conference.
The women’s volley ball game is more exiting.
-
@JayHawkFanToo did they win?
-
The women’s volley ball team just lost to Arkansas Little Rock. This is shaping out to be a historically bad day for KU sports. Maybe the Basketball team will wake up and show up in the second half.
-
OU beating MU by 12 in the first half…
-
@Crimsonorblue22 I thought you were going to the game.
-
Much, much better second half. Selden picked a good game to break the slump. Davonte was gold from the free throw line at the end of the game.
All is well that ends well - Shakespeare
-
Devonte is who Self put his trust in for the second half. Svi had the ball stripped and Devonte came in. As it sometimes happens, this was the piece that fit in to the comeback. As thin as Florida was on the bench they were exhausted in the second half. I was glad for both Kelly and Greene. Greene didn’t screw up and Kelly started to show some aggression inside. Yeah, Ellis is a star, so is Cliff, but this is Wayne’s team.
-
@brooksmd yes I was!! Crazy fun!
-
Wayne’s World
Wayne’s World
Wayne’s World Its party time excellent
Wayne’s World Its party time excellent
