Too Sooner to Give up OU-KU game thread
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@Bwag yes
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yes. They especially seem to forget how to pass on the road.
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Very very proud of the streak. It was a phenomenal run. It’s sad to see it end by losing to subpar teams rather than someone who is just plain better. But even more sad to see that it will probably actually end a year shy for ncaa violations.
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Gotta get Dotson back on track and see what will happen in the tourney(s). With these freshmen, I’m just going to enjoy what’s left of the season. Big Dave is coming along. Keep in mind, we would probably have at least 5 more losses if this was our team from day one (No Doke, No Vick)
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@cragarhawk we are a subpar team, dude. Not a subpar PROGRAM, but this particular team has 4 freshman starters.
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Welp, I stand by them when they win and I’ll stand by them when they lose.
They need to find their mojo soon if they want to find some silver linings in this season. I’ll keep watching and hoping there’s a rabbit up Self’s sleeve.
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Jay Williams gave KU a standing ovation for the streak. First time I can remember KU getting a non-condescending standing O after an ass whoopin’
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I think the most frustrating thing is this team just never really got better as the tear went on. Clearly Dave is becoming more comfortable and has improved, but I’d make a argument that Grimes, Dotson, and Ochai have regressed as the season ( short season with Ochai) has gone on. That is just extremely out of character for a Self coached team.
I just don’t remember a team as fragile under Self. Obviously there is a lot going on around the program right now and I’m sure that’s part of it, but hoping up flat tonight with all that was on the line was sad to see.
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cragarhawk said:
Very very proud of the streak. It was a phenomenal run. It’s sad to see it end by losing to subpar teams rather than someone who is just plain better. But even more sad to see that it will probably actually end a year shy for ncaa violations.
I see what you mean, but if we are losing to subpar teams, then it means we built the streak by beating subpar teams. True, it’s not the ACC or B10, but dissing the other teams unintentionally degrades the accomplishment.
If I’m not mistaken, of all the teams in the B12, OU is the only other that has reached the Final Four… They have a great coach. Yeah, their record isn’t great, but their SOS is 10th.
We are not an experienced team this year. We’re going to finish 3rd or so… It is what it is.
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@DanR we are subpar to the normfor this program yes. But we are not subpar to several of the teams we’ve lost to. Not even from a talent stand point. Look it up…
We lack many qualities that good teams have, talent not withstanding, but have failed to harness the controllable qualities of what makes a good TEAM.
4 freshman? Really? Sorry but that’s an awful excuse. Look around the country sir… Clear back to the fab five… And before anyone says “but they were paid” people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones
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@bskeet no that isn’t what it means. The streak was definitely accomplished by scratching and clawing for years against some stiff competition. And vs teams with players of the year and so on. It is not to diminish what’s been done. It’s how that actually was done. Lots and lots of effort. Which you didn’t see largely this season. That’s the point.
I mean seriously? This OU team is actually better than KU this season? And by 20 points? West Virginia is better than KU this season? Uh… No sir
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Our 4 frosh are pretty comparable to the fab 5
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We got bailed out at least 4 times during the streak by other better teams pooping the bed.
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cragarhawk said:
@bskeet no that isn’t what it means. The streak was definitely accomplished by scratching and clawing for years against some stiff competition. And vs teams with players of the year and so on. It is not to diminish what’s been done. It’s how that actually was done. Lots and lots of effort. Which you didn’t see largely this season. That’s the point.
I mean seriously? This OU team is actually better than KU this season? And by 20 points? West Virginia is better than KU this season? Uh… No sir
Well, the evidence suggests we are a Jekyll and Hyde team.
At home things we can look great; on the road, we are not good… possibly bad.
But we will see soon enough how we perform on a neutral floor.
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On the bright side, since the streak is over, the rest of the Big 12 will not “want it more” for the next 15 years. They can have their one-game home season championship against KU and then forget about the rest of the year.
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Woodrow said:
Technically the streak was still alive win this game began. The effort and energy this team came out with is a embarrassment to the KU program. If I was a former player I would be pissed off.
However, when you don’t really have any players that have bought into the program ( sans Mitch) not sure what you can expect.
https://twitter.com/j_mari31/status/1103141910150029312?s=21
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Such a funny saying for something you don’t believe exists. Even though it’s proven over and over again throughout time. SMH. You think wanting it more is a cliche? Or damn me… Could it possibly mean doing more of the things that actual win… Focus, effort, energy, scouting, practice, fundamentals… Things of that sort. Nah surely those things don’t matter. If I work harder than you that absolutely can’t mean that I want it more. Lol. Ridiculous
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Also, teams shot out of their minds against us this year. It’s happened in passed years too, but it seems like every other game our opponent gets into the “can’t-miss-from-3” zone and someone has a career night… Maybe that’s because our defense is bad, but maybe it’s a bit of bad luck too.
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@bskeet it’s both but let us not forget that chance favors the prepared mind.
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@cragarhawk If you’re replying to me, yes, I think “want it more” is the stupidest cliche in sports. I’ve pointed out a few actual reasons why we played poorly, but if you think it’s just that OU “wanted it more” then go be a coach and scream that at kids.
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@cragarhawk I agree that chance favors the prepared mind.
I think @DanR equates “want it more” to doing all it takes to win, including having “a prepared mind”. It didn’t look like we were fully prepared for this game.
That’s a rarity in the Bill Self era. I saw a few Roy Williams teams show up like that and he would call a time out, scream “dad-gum-it” and sub out all five starters.
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@DanR I have coached plenty of kids, most of which would tell you they miss having me as a coach. It isn’t about screaming. It’s about getting the maximum potential out of them. We beat and competed with a helluva lot of teams that had way more talent than us. I suppose it was just luck by your standards. Or then there’s that other option. We simply worked harder. Talent without effort will not beat effort with a purpose.
If that’s not a thing… Then why the cliche Grande’s every year “KU is everyone’s Superbowl” “we always get everyone’s best shot” blah blah blah bullshit. What does that mean if not that? It means they tried to work harder and work as hard as they could to beat us cause we’re KU. Not “oh we bottled all of our luck up all year for this one game”. I mean wth
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It’s not even debatable that many times this year on the road KU came out flat, no energy, not prepared, etc…
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Idk how to help anyone that thinks me working hard than them can’t yield a more positive result. I mean that’s the guy that shows up late to work, stands around half the day, and does nothing to improve his situation bitching about the neighbor who has a new truck, a nice house, a hot wife, and kids that aren’t fuckups cause he actually has put effort into his life.
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@bskeet I equate “want it more” with fans complaining, that’s it.
I’ve never heard a player from any sport say, “well, I really didn’t care about this game. I’m just here to get my degree in art history. I guess they just wanted it more.” Goes off to smoke some weed.
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Anyone that thinks this KU team plays hard should be checked into a mental hospital. Simple question: Teams that are playing hard seldom get beat down the floor? True or False? We got beat down the floor for layups at least 10 times tonight.
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@DanR so you actually watched the game tonight. Decided that the KU players “wanted to win” as much as the OU players and then dismissed the result as OU was simply a better conglomeration of players. A better team. Is that right? Wow
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I’ll damn well be the first one on here saying our kids are playing their hearts out on the nights they do. So no. “Wanting it more” is absolutely not just something for fans to complain about. It’s absolutely real. And it translates to everything in life. Far beyond basketball
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@cragarhawk I’m not going to play the rhetorical game beyond this. I’ve said repeatedly that “wanting it more” means jack sh*t to players. It’s a fan thing. Fans want it. They don’t earn it. They don’t work for it.
Did KState play hard in Lawrence last weekend? It looked like they were playing pretty hard to me. They probably even wanted it more (big goal for the season to beat KU at Lawrence). They might even have more talent and definitely more experience. How did they lose? It just makes no sense! Clearly “wanting it more” means nothing. Nothing.
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@DanR KSU stood around on offense and didnt move the ball so no I dont call that playing hard. OU shot well yes but if KU just hustled down the floor to prevent wide open dunks and layups (which would’ve lessen that%) they would’ve had a chance to win. Read Jarred Hasse’s book floor burns and watch tape of him then rewatch this game, I’ll bet you’ll change your mind. No team plays hard all 40 but playing hard for 4 wont win anything this time of year.
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Oklahoma had some decent players before the Trae Young circus came to town. Lon’s a Hall of Fame coach. Can’t win em all.
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@kjayhawks 10 times? For dunks or layups? Hmm . Bout 20 points there huh. Interesting… Must have been sheer luck.
I mean if I was playing idk… Defense, and wanted to actually give effort I may have tried to stop the ball or get back in defensive position. But clearly wanting to do that isn’t a thing. Obviously I should stand there like a bottle of piss and let luck and divine providence handle the outcome without trying to create a different result.
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@cragarhawk I know right? The players cant control running back on defense. Wide open layups and dunks are like roulette, who knows where they are gonna end up.
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@kjayhawks ya remember. Forrest Gump had it all along. Basketball is like a box of chocolates… You never what you’re gonna get. So just be there and let the chips fall where they may. If you just do that… Somehow you’ll be an elite program by the grace of God or something. Don’t try. That’s shits overrated. It really doesn’t affect anything
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I honestly get the feeling we dont win again til November. I could be wrong but I just don’t see it happening.
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Ahh, bitch-slapped by Oklahoma. How nice. For those of you not paying close attention, this is an Oklahoma team that lost at home to Baylor by 30. At the very least this team should be able to put up a fight on the road. I laughed the first play of the game when Dedric gave up a baseline dunk for lack of give a shit.
— Grimes should feel lucky if he hits the rim from deep. There’s simply no telling where his shot will go.
— Ochai has hit the wall.
— We would have a chance most games if Dedric could start hot.
— Big Freaking Dave with an awesome left handed post move hook in the lane!!! Loved that.
— Big Dave is not a good rebounder yet. He needs some Hudy time.
— Grimes the Giant Pussy, Example 799: three minutes left in the first half…open (ish) lane on left of the rim for a dunk…weak, missed toss up layup thingy. Fail.
— Doolittle, player of the year! Oh, wait, no. Hmmm.
— Manek, player of the year! Oh, wait, no. Hmmm.
— OU was smokin hot early, and KU was ice cold.
— I kept thinking if we could get it to 10 by half or the 10 min mark, we had a chance.
— More Chris Teahan!
— seriously, why not more Chris Teahan? It’s not like he could be worse on defense, right? Vick played no D. Shoot the rock!
— I guess this is what happens to a team with four freshman starters.
— I know I’m currently blue, but I don’t see next year being much better.
— I would not be sad if anybody but Dotson and Ochai left this team.
— I remember way back in the day when OU came to town, me and my buddy would sneak down from the stands to check out the OU cheerleaders in the hallway. Smokeshows galore! A sight to see back then! :)’
— our defense needs work, or effort.
— The Streak is over…
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One team played for their tournament life- the other cake walked it.
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The guy that covers our local sports here and has been for 40 years, a KU grad and fan, said that was the most dead man walking team he had ever seen at KU. He said their body language before tip looked like a team that didn’t want to be there at all.
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@DanR I would really disagree. The “wanting it more” thing is really related effort and desire. Showing that in your play. It’s what Roy used to refer to as “want to.” It’s evident with teams in dugouts, on the sidelines, and on the bench. Different teams have different character. This team is what @kjayhawks just mentioned when referencing a sports talk guy – they looked like dead men walking. They really do sometimes. It’s a state of mind. It’s why coach Self tries to instill effort first and foremost. That guides the ship.
But I know what you’re saying, I think. That our guys, in their minds, may really want it too. But it’s the objective display that is really telling.
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@DanR I disagree with you but I still you like you ole friend
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I mean, part of it is that this team just doesn’t have anyone good enough yet to lean on. Dedric is good. But he’s not T-Rob good. Dotson isn’t Sherron (yet). This team has nobody good enough to be a de facto leader. A closer. Someone who, when we get punched in the mouth, is capable of punching back.
This team is just simply missing that leader. I think they WANT to win. I think they try hard. I didn’t once think that the team last night wasn’t trying. They were just not good, and everything compounded upon on itself. A missed 3 with a long rebound was basically an outlet pass. And we had like 17 of those. We had a few nice drives, only to not see them go in the basket and that miss turned into a 4 on 3 break routinely. Conversely, they made shots, which forced us in to half court sets. We missed shots. They got the ball. And that was the cycle for the entire game. We couldn’t finish a layup, much less hit a jumper. And, no matter how hard you try on defense, if the offense isn’t there sometimes it doesn’t matter.
But, again, I never thought anything about effort. I just thought “We kind of just plain suck at basketball.”
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Thought it was interesting the announcers talking last night and saying that the Oklahoma radio guy heard that the athletic dept at Oklahoma had gotten a message from EVERY Big 12 school wishing them luck to end the streak. - mercy some envious sniveling little Bitches out there - -to that I say - Hate the player - -no the game
To all those little bitches - -enjoy it boys - -as you hear them say – Hell Even the Sun has to shine on a dogs ass sometime. - enjoy this ONE year , these little wanna be’s have been waiting for this year. - -
Last night perfect Example - they were saying about what a large large group of Seniors playin for Oklahoma - -against our freshmen THIS TIME it was all you - - NEXT yr ? - -umm not so much
