HEM: Semi-Regular Observations
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@mayjay you’re doing the same thing as someone point to black on black crime when the topic is police brutality.
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@wissox you just can’t tell everyone yes. Even in great need. Someone has to be strong enough to say no at some point.
Honestly, I’m ok bringing in as many people as we have jobs for and want to work. I just want them paying taxes and at least being accounted for. If it were my decision, I’d be handing out work visa’s like they were f-ing candy.
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@Kcmatt7 It is not the same at all. I am talking about people who justify deporting someone living a peaceful productive life by pontificating, “They are here illegally. A crime is a crime. Period.” But they are not absolutists when it comes to income tax cheating, which is rampant. I knew a guy who had had a pool cleaning business in Hollywood who collected his fees in cash and proudly told me how he saved so much in taxes because he only reported half of it. His drug use was legendary. He always stopped every conversation about immigration by talking about how the “(effing) Mexicans” needed to be kicked out for breaking our laws. In other words, there is a principle involved of law and order, just not one that applies to anyone else except illegals.
The problem with saying the protestors should look to b-on-b crime as a greater harm to blacks than police brutality is that the argument misses the point entirely: the protestors are attempting to bring attention to, and to stop, decades of official sanction of abuse and violence perpetrated by the people whose job it is to prevent and solve crimes, not commit them. A community has felt targeted by agents of the state and ignored when challenging that until recently as the video evidence has become overwhelming. Anyone who thinks all members of a race have to rein in any criminals in their midst before they have the right to protest officials and officers commiting crimes is a fool.
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@mayjay Why is one an absolutist issue but not the other?
I could spin the B on B argument the same way you did. Which is what people do when they argue B on B crime in the Police Brutality argument. People who make this argument say, “why is one black death more important than the other? If you believe that violence on black people is an issue than you should focus on B on B crime because it is more rampant. Not Police Brutality.”
To which you just responded, they are separate issues. Which I agree on.
But you just made that same argument, basically. Paraphrasing:
“If you believe being an illegal immigrant is a crime that should be punished, this OTHER crime is rampant and you don’t say anything about it!!!” That’s what you just said. Which, replaced by B on B crime and Police brutality like mad lib book, it reads exactly the same. It is a comparison to a different issue.
The topic is illegal immigration. Which has nothing to do with current legalized citizens and their lack of paying taxes. Cracking down on that is it’s own issue that would have to be handled completely different. So comparing illegal immigration to income tax fraud really isn’t connected, at all. Unless of course you are trying to use a completely different topic in an argument in which it really has no business.
One issue starts with whether or not someone should even be in the country in the first place.
The other issue is whether or not someone claims the $599 jackpot they hit at the casino. Or the cash they took under the table. Or however they tweaked their taxes.
The only way that these two issues are related, is when talking about taxes specifically.
Otherwise, they are not the same topic one little bit. By arguing that “if you believe one is a crime than you should feel as passionate about all crime” you are missing the point of the argument that “conservatives” (I hate this because I have been on both sides of issues on this board and feel that I am about as moderate as anyone here). It is that illegal immigrants should have never been here in the first place. Whether they are living a peaceful and productive life or not. Which is that they are taking away that same opportunity for another person who actually followed the rules and would have been equally productive and peaceful. If not more likely to be more productive and peaceful… Did someone fudging their taxes take away another person’s opportunity because of it? How did that particular issue directly result in the altering of someone else’s life? You see, this is why they are different issues.
If you take an absolutist approach to anything, everyone ends up looking like a hypocrite.
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Yea I do. It was bad stuff. Marshalltown was hit really hard.
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@DoubleDD tell us, so sorry!
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Interesting that as a lawyer you presume guilt instead of innocence as our system of laws dictates. Maybe you should get all the facts before you jump to conclusions…don’t believe me, this comes straight from very well known liberal Alan Dershowitz. Apparently these charges were brought up before and none other than Rod Rosenstein exonerated him.](https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/08/judge-napolitano-doubles-down-says-paul-manafort-was-exonerated-8-years-ago-may-call-rosenstein-as-first-witness-video/)
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@JayHawkFanToo (1) You might want to read the testimony of his accountant and tax preparer of the past 2 days. How could he be exonerated 8 years ago for falsifying documents to obtain loans in 2016, and filing false returns for 2015? (1-a) Dershowitz is an idiot at times. (2) I am a lawyer. You aren’t, as far as I know, although you do make lots of pronouncements about the law. Those facts do not have anything to do with my ability to read trial reports. Please do not tell me how I am supposed to view things since I have no role other than as a citizen. I I were a juror, I would be instructed not to draw conclusions until deliberating, etc etc etc. But I am not. I am under no duty to presume innocence. It is a misconception to think the public is obligated to presume innocence of anyone–it is a legal presumption intended only to determine the burden of proof is on the prosecution to present sufficient evidence to overcome that presumption beyond a reasonable doubt. It applies only to decision-makers. As a spectator (meaning not a participant) I have read testimony that to me looks like clear evidence of guilt. But I am aware this is just the prosecution. So, if that evidence is clearly rebutted, I will change my mind. (3) I assume by keeping an open mind you mean like the president, who has pronounced before trial that PM is being railroaded?
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@DoubleDD Sorry to hear about the twisters. We used to drive from KC to Waterloo, Iowa to see my grandparents in the 60s and 70s. Went through Marshalltown, Traer, Tama…all types of towns both northeast and southwest of Des Moines before I-35 was completed. (One stretch of 2-lane highway in northern Missouri was called the deadliest 20 miles of highway in the country.)
Funny family legend involving the late great unintentional comedienne, my Mom: In Marshalltown, we always stopped at this one restaurant both going up on Friday and going back home Sunday night. It was the only thing open. On a Friday night once, my mother ordered a Rueben sandwich that was thoroughly horrible. On Sunday, she ordered it again. Then, when it was also bad, she got something else. We asked why she invited such misery.
Mom: “It was so bad on Friday that I just didn’t think it was possible for them to make it that bad again. I was wrong!”
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That is a great story made me laugh. I’m ok but man some Iowans got hit hard my friend.
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@Kcmatt7 Well good, you’re not totally heartless!
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@mayjay You know the best thing to come out of Missouri? I-35 and I-70.
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As a matter of fact, I have read extensive reports of the accountant and bookkeeper testimony. Interesting that the accountant that makes $400K per year and took direct responsibility for many of the issues was not charged at all and instead granted immunity the same immunity granted to Gates, Manafort’s assistant, who according to the accountant and bookkeeper provided most of the guidance and information directly. The accountant and bookkeeper provided little in the way of proof and a lot of what they testified was about things they though were not right but had no proof one way or another.
The trial has barely started and you have already labeled him a “tax cheat.” As an attorney and a citizen should you not wait until he is convicted? If you were part of the jury pool would rightly be dismissed for cause because you have already made up your mind. With that way of thinking maybe we should not wait for the FBI basketball recruiting investigation to run its course and just go ahead and label KU and Coach Self as cheats since they were cited in the indictment and apparently that implies guilt. Presumption of innocence is one of the most sacred prnciples in the American Criminal Justice System and jumping to conclusions before all the evidence is in would be understandable coming from a lay person but seems unlikely and most unseeming coming from an attorney.
Does it not bother you that everybody is being offered immunity in order to elicit testimony, real or made up, to incriminate the bigger fish with the hope that someone will eventually turn in Trump? This approach has been strongly and vocally opposed by the ACLU and Trial lawyers in the past, as Dershowitz pointed out, but their silence is deafening now that the target is a conservative. Does it not bother you that while the Special Counsel was tasked to investigate the alleged collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, Manafort is being indicted for alleged crimes that took place long before Trump became a candidate, long before he joined the campaign, unrelated to the campaign and outside the stated scope of his mandate? As an attorney, does it not bother you that while the average sentence for a white collar criminal found guilty is 1.5 years in a federal country club detention center, Manafort is facing a term of 305 years? Apparently not since anyone associated with Trump does not deserve the same treatment as other defendants do. SMH.
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@JayHawkFanToo The answer to all your questions is “No, not a bit.”
On sentencing, thanks for bringing that up. The difference between what white-collar defendants receive from what they faced is another point of concern about how disparate the treatment of minorities is from the treatment of whites (who make up the overwhelming majority of white-neck, er, white-collar, defendants). They get low sentences compared to what they face, whereas nonviolent minority defendants face mandated minimum sentences. Ever notice that the law and order whiners never seek mandatory minimums for white-collar crimes?
Of course, the rich miscreants who commit financial crimes get pardons from their connected pals. (In both parties–Clinton’s pardon of Marc Rich was deplorable.) If you think Manafort, even convicted of everything, will serve any time greater than 6 months before your hero pardons him, you are dreaming.
Finally, the use of immunity for small fish to testify against big fish is the only way to get evidence. The biggest objections are to giving deals to jailhouse snitches who have no connection to their cellmates and have been shown to be willing to say almost anything about their new companions who strangely spontaneously confess to all types of crap after getting locked up. A second objection is when they give better deals to big fish and then fry the no-longer-needed little fish to increase conviction rates.
I have never heard a convincing argument against giving immunity to an accessory to give needed evidence to convict a major actor in a criminal enterprise.
I suppose you think it is the accountants who committed crimes benefiting Manafort. And Gates must have fooled him into saving millions in taxes. Poor Paul, such an ingenue in the ways of international finance and business partnerships. My tears are streaming down my cheeks.
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@HighEliteMajor to quote Stephen Colbert, “reality has a well-known liberal bias”.
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8/5/18 - So we saw the story in the KC Star and on various news outlets a days ago. 15 people were shot in Kansas City over 3 days. This is nothing new. Look at every major inner city. Many in areas with the strictest gun laws in the country. Killing fields. To find these killing fields, simply look to the major cities on the last presidential election map, and then look for the deep blue middle. President Trump promised federal involvement in Chicago if it didn’t improve. I’m still waiting. This is more than a political stunt. These are people’s LIVES. Real and tangible. A little boy paralyzed at a gas station waiting with his father. A little girl shot through a window in her home. A young woman randomly shot while driving. THESE LIVES MATTER AND WE GLOSS OVER THEM EVERY DAY BECAUSE WE ARE USED TO INNER CITY VIOLENCE. It is the product of a depraved and morally bankrupt culture.
The KC story is interesting. I’m waiting for the KC pro sports athletes to join the effort to vilify, target, blame, and eradicate those that murder and maim. I’m waiting for athletes around the country, who have influence, to villify, target, blame, and eradicate those that murder and main. I’m waiting for athletes around the country to speak up and villify, target, blame and eradicate a cultural tolerance and enabling of this horrific behavior. Oh, wait, that would require many to blame what they have so readily embraced and glorified, right? They are cowards.
Or, we can laud the athletes for their contributions to schools, and clubs, and charities. All very worthy of praise. But all while missing the point. If the athletes believe their voice and actions mean something, why not target those that kill, rob, maim, and destroy on a nightly basis? We know why. That would require many to target what they have readily embraced and glorified. They are COWARDS.
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@HighEliteMajor Are you a coward for not crusading against all the problems within the groups that you identify with or are identified as being a part of? Do you really think these athletes think police crime is the end all and be all of problems with black people facing violence in this country? I do not. I feel like we are talking about the perspectives of people that we don’t know, as spoon fed to us by spin media encouraging us to dismiss them and see them in 2 dimensions.
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Also, do you think it is logical to demand that these athletes tell other black people what to do simply because they are both black? As @justanotherfan pointed out, this comes down to personal safety, not crusading for group ideals as defined by racial collectives.
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8/6/18 Will be interesting to hear the misguided anti-gun folks spin this. The same folks that want to disarm citizens on the fairy dust and hope that the thugs and criminals will do the same (or not caring one way or the other). “Left” and “Logic” can never be confused as partners. Now “Left” and “Feelings”, that another thing. And “Dangerous” is always an appropriate moniker.
Edit - “Stupid” changed to “misguided.”
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@HighEliteMajor I actually agree about the gun control, being a independent. I think we need to take steps to prevent school shootings and what not but disarming millions of law abiding citizen won’t help. They ain’t gonna go to south Chicago or South Boston, east St. Louis and Compton to get the guns from there because it would turn into a war zone. Here is a great video on the matter.
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@HighEliteMajor Not a good way to start another debate by saying “The stupid anti gun folks”. I sincerely like your basketball postings. IMHO you’re one of the best here. You’re level headed when people disagree on basketball. Why can’t you be the same here?
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UK, which has severe gun control averages around 100 gun homicides a year. One horrible mass shooting a long time ago in Scotland I believe. Gun control does work.
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@wissox They have also seen crimes using vehicles, knifes and blunt force objects sky rocket. A friend of mine was in the air force over there for a few years. You have to have a permit to own a dang baseball bat. I agree we need to do something and aint afraid to say I dont have all the answers but taking away freedom and rights aint it. “those who give away freedom for security, deserve nether” - Thomas Jefferson.
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I own guns, but have no problem with attempts to develop requirements for safety training and limitations on magazine size and ammo stockpiling. Registration may be a pipe dream if 3D guns proliferate (no serial numbers). I recognize there are well-meaning people who want to get rid of all guns, just as there are well-meaning 2nd Amendment defenders.
There are also people on both sides who are nuttier than a fruitcake. Anyone who takes an unyielding position at either extreme end is guaranteeing that the battle will become more and more bitter, and will eventually result in a solution being crammed down people’s throats rather than a reasonable compromise. The NRA is succeeding so far in knocking out any reasonable attempt to solve criminals’ and violently ill people’s virtually unfettered access to guns. The ultimate result, I fear, will be an overwhelming populist movement to amend or repeal the 2nd A.
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@kjayhawks I like your response, but I would say that those weapons aren’t going to wound and injure 10-15 people at a time which has happened just in the last weekend twice here in Chicago.
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Youi have to be very careful with the number you quote for the UK since they basically cook the books and the homicides are not reported in a straightforward basis like the FBI does here. Here is an article you can read that explains the process.
Also, while homicide by firearms is low, the homicide by knife and other objects is high to the point hat the mayor of London has proposed banning knives.
A friend of mine from Australia, not a conservative at all but a well educated individual who owns a software firm and also publishes a blog about holistic medicine and wholesome foods and is a big opponents of big corporation and pharma, just wrote recently that the gun control and gun confiscation experiment down under had very bad unintended consequences. The number of home invasions and othre crimes has increased exponentially and criminals now break into homes and commit crimes with impunity because they know home owners no longer own guns and obviously criminals do. Something to think about.
Did you notice that just about all the recent mass shootings in this country were on areas designed as “gun free”? Something else to think about.
I read that if you take the 5 cities in the country with the highest rates out of the statistics (St. Louis, Chicago Detroit, New Orleans and Baltimore…if I recall correctly) the homicide rate for the country as a whole drops dramatically to levels comparable to other similar developed countries. Something more to think about.
I believe in rational gun control that requires training and permits to own guns and a comprehensive and up to data registry of those who lose the privilege such as but not limited to, anyone convicted of a felony, but it is easier said than done since the implementation of such as system would be nearly impossible. Arbitrarily confiscation guns, like many politicians are proposing, is not the answer; responsible ownership through education is.
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It’s just the American mentality.
While the rest of the World is working for peace, we are preparing for war.
Homicide rates, suicide rates, etc. None of it matters to anyone who is pro gun. No statistic could change their mind.
God himself could show up on their doorstep, and they’d shoot him for trespassing.
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@JayHawkFanToo I’ll have to read those links later (going to Sox-Yankees tonight!) But I’ve heard the 5 cities thing before. Interesting that 3 of our 4 largest cities, NY, LA and Houston aren’t on that list. Not sure about Houston, but NY has stricter gun laws than Chicago, and on the conservative side of things those cities have pretty aggressive policing which is just the opposite in Chicago. Read about the ACLU’s role in Chicago’s high homicide rate if you have time.
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@HighEliteMajor you really need to get off the Fox News. To me, posting links from Fox is like bragging about a cocaine addiction.
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approxinfinity said:
@HighEliteMajor you really need to get off the Fox News. To me, posting links from Fox is like bragging about a cocaine addiction.
Would a MSN link do? In all fairness, it is hard to post a link to CNN when it will not even report it.
The same search on Google yields lots of result from many other publications including the MSN link above.
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@JayHawkFanToo this is some sort of voodoo witchcraft. You’ve managed to find a Fox News story posted on MSN.
How about this…
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/1-person-hospitalized-in-titusville-shooting-police-say
…coverage that doesn’t start with a young attractive blonde woman, then transition to a huge subtitle “GOOD GUY WITH A GUN STOPS PARK SHOOTING”
It is disturbing that you guys willingly subject yourself to this brainwashing.
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I don’t care for CNN or Fox News lol they both stink. CNN has posted several stories that appeared to be nothing short of fiction and Fox News thinks Trump is Jesus return.
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@approxinfinity probably has a good friend that works at fox
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Here’s an article on the fallacy of the “Good Guy With a Gun” rhetoric being pushed by the NRA:
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/evd4we/the-good-guy-with-a-gun-theory-debunked
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That was the very first link that came up on Google. I personally do not and have not watched Fox News or any of the networks for a while now. On the other hand, you must watch it quite a bit because you seem to know all about it.
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@JayHawkFanToo I know more about the content of the links you post than you do? We’re getting somewhere!
Im glad you’re not reading Fox.Tell me man, are any of these conservative sites worth a look in your opinion?
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/nov/22/conservative-websites-media-bubble
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8/7/18 - Links below. ANTIFA thugs doing what ANTIFA thugs do. Black Lives Matter thugs interrupt a police officers wedding. And the leftist politicians endorse harassment as a preferred method of protest (and remember, when this stuff is done, the left is silent). The left has normalized harassment, in place of good old fashioned debate. You’ll find the leftist thugs spitting, destroying property, and engaging in other vile conduct. It began during the campaign when it was the left that targeted and assaulted Trump supporters. Physical attacks. Vandalism. A group to be proud of there on the left. And as we know, the leftists believe that the rights under the Constitution only apply to them – their m.o. is to shut down free speech, to attempt to intimidate, to pressure social media to silence the right. Those rational voices on the left are being drowned out. They don’t speak up. They don’t condemn. They are being pulled farther and farther down the rat hole. So when the left determines that anything goes, well, you can imagine the media coverage of Trump supporters confronted Cory Booker, or Kamala Harris, or Elizabeth (Pocahantas) Warren, or Maxine Waters at restaurants or at their homes. The last link is the best link.
The reality is that a return to civility is sorely needed. Good old fashioned debate and freedom of speech. Both talking and listening. Doesn’t meant it will be pleasant or lacking in harsh words. But try mentioning it to leftist crew. They’ll scream, spit, tell you to f-off, and try to shout you down.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/25/politics/maxine-waters-trump-officials/index.html
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jun/22/protesters-descend-kirstjen-nielsens-home-no-justi/
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/20/politics/kirstjen-nielsen-mexican-restaurant-protest/index.html
http://thefederalist.com/2016/11/22/meet-intolerant-vulgarians-dirtbag-left/
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@HighEliteMajor Trump has energized the radical left that’s for sure. Their behavior is as disgusting to me as Trumps over the top rhetoric.
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At this point, my only hope is that both parties continue to drift further and further away from the middle.
That will finally leave room for an independent to run for humanitarian reason’s only. Not for greed or power. But simply to serve their fellow countrymen.
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8/8/18 - A man who lived the fight. A man who has perspective. Jim Brown.
"I’m going to give you the real deal: I’m an American,” Brown said in an interview with ThePostGame. “I don’t desecrate my flag and my national anthem. I’m not gonna do anything against the flag and national anthem. I’m going to work within those situations. But this is my country, and I’ll work out the problems, but I’ll do it in an intelligent manner."
Look at the attacks on Dak Prescott from the cowardly left after his statement. Standard issue for the leftists. No way that he can actually think for himself. Name calling, insults, the norm for the left.
Don’t ever, for a moment, believe that the kneelers love and respect this country. The kneelers look at this country with disgust (as does much of the left). And it is why they are the enemy. Anyone that looks at this country with disgust is my enemy. Because without this country, I have nothing. Folks love this country. Folks would die for this country. Folks would kill for this country. Folks would defend this country to their last breath. And the kneelers can’t comprehend why they are viewed with such contempt. Protest, complain, march on Washington. Have at it. But when you turn to insulting our country, don’t expect those that love this country to simply turn the other cheek.
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While Brown said he preferred if players would stand for the national anthem, he also respected the players’ right to do what they want — even if it is to kneel.
“Well, if you take the bottom line, what are we talking about? We’re talking about freedom to express one’s self, and if you don’t break any rules then you have that particular right,” he said.
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Ehh my white brother was murdered by his white ex-wife and the white police officers did nothing about it. It’s not just a race thing. The police are genuinely bad at their job and like most people many are lazy which give the rest of them a bad name as well.
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Illegal immigration is a major issue here. I’ll bet 10-15% of the local population is undocumented. The problem is many of these productive people have been denied citizenship for over a decade inspite of every legal attempt to become just that legal citizens. One of my farmers just was granted citizenship after 12 years of applying and having no record and paying taxes religiously. It’s a broken process that many just give up on.
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@dylans Only going to get worse too.
People don’t realize how inept new police officers are going to be from here on out.
Why be a cop anymore? It used to be a good way for good people to serve their fellow man. Now, It is a shitty way for average people to make a very mediocre living. They get crapped on from all sides. It requires more school (note this is not training), it pays less, the retirement is worse, and people hate you. The quality of people applying for the job has only gotten worse.
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@Kcmatt7 I’m afraid so and if it’s this bad for white people it’s only worse for others
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I keep checking this thread occasionally to see if HEM in dropped the N word yet. Nope. Uses “kneelers” instead.
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DanR said:
I keep checking this thread occasionally to see if HEM in dropped the N word yet. Nope. Uses “kneelers” instead.
Idk that I’d go that far, I wouldn’t say I agree with all that HEM has posted but a difference of opinion doesn’t make someone racist. I don’t get the why the left is that way. “You see it our way or you’re a racist, bigot nazi!”. Especially from the group that wants to take away free speech and the right to bare arms, which is exactly what the nazi did. Imagine businesses working that way, if you use Jim’s plumbing you’re a racist nazi! , only use Jeff’s plumbing.
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@kjayhawks @DanR never says bad or negative things about people.
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@Crimsonorblue22 riiight lol
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@kjayhawks I was being serious.
