Roy Court
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No one will ever convince me that Roy wanted to win that game against Syracuse. He had made his mind up about leaving way before the national championship game, and it wouldn’t have looked good to leave a program that just won the national championship. And I still question the effort of our team when we handed the national championship to UNC years earlier. The only “statue” of Roy I would be in favor of would be made out of paper mache, and burned at the stake.
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@jaybate-1.0 “Dividing to conquer leaves the majority in chaos and the conquering minority with only the power to steal.”
101 years, and still going strong.
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@mayjay good one
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If Self wins another title we better name more than a road after him, I’d be fine with naming the road after him right now. I’m not sure what to name after him but a road seems pretty small if he wins another title, you could argue he’s our best coach ever.
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@KUSTEVE I can’t change your mind. But Roy gave us a stellar 15 years. That’s a long time. And the only job he left for was his alma mater, after being lobbied by the mentor that got him his job at KU in the first place. We all are in great debt to coach Roy. How about some Roy love?
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@HighEliteMajor Glad we had him, glad he left. It invigorated both teams.
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@kjayhawks A road or the practice facility, those are basically the two options.
The court is named after the guy who invented the game itself. Even if he was the worst coach we’ve ever had, selling kids on playing on a court named after the inventor of the game is huge that no other school can claim.
You also can’t name the building after Bill because it’s named after the father of coaching who is responsible for 3 of the 5 banners in the north rafters.
The practice facility is probably the biggest honor left in Kansas basketball to have something named after you and Self should have something named for him. He’ll likely pass Phog in total wins in the next 3-4 seasons and likely pass him in wins at KU in the next 5-6 seasons.
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@drgnslayr Great honor for Ole Roy. Im happy for him.
KU needs to keep James Naismith court like it is. No matter where we are when Self finally hangs it up, the court name stays. I do think Self should be immortalized in there somewhere though. He absolutely deserves it.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I agree with not changing the court name or something silly like Self-Allen fieldhouse. Ik my booster buddies say they were going to name something after Williams before he decided to leave. A practice facility would be okay. I guess it’s a nice problem to have, having so many good coaches that we run outta things to name lol.
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drgnslayr said:
Even better… Roy only gets half a statue. The east side of his body will be missing… representing the east coast basketball players he refused to recruit because of UNC.
I’ll never understand how he got away with that. Doubtful he could do that today. I smell lawsuit.
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PHOF
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Lulufulu said:
@drgnslayr Great honor for Ole Roy. Im happy for him.
KU needs to keep James Naismith court like it is. No matter where we are when Self finally hangs it up, the court name stays. I do think Self should be immortalized in there somewhere though. He absolutely deserves it.
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Lawrence —> Billville.
The Big 12 —> The Big Self Conference.
adidas —> Selfidas.
Jayhawk Boulevard —> Jayhawk Billevard.
Daisy Hill —> Daisy Bill.
Boothe Hall of Fame —>Self Hall of Fame.
Mount Oread —> Mt. Self.
Potter’s Lake —> Bill’s Lake.
“AMAZING THINGS HAPPEN IN THIS BUILDING.”—Bill Self [This quote in a bas relief bronze plaque over the entrance to AFH.]
A statue next to Forrest.
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@HighEliteMajor He treated the KU job as though it was an inferior job. Not recruiting east of the Mississippi? If Bill did that to protect another university other than KU, we’d have his head on a platter. Then, after yet another terrible loss in the championship game, he quits, and runs off to Carolina. I know you’ve had your issues with Bill in the past, but he has elevated the KU program to where it would be unthinkable for a coach to leave KU for another college job. I’ll give Roy his due- he kept us winning, he normally did very well in the NCAA tournament until he got to the Final Four, and he kept the program going for 15 years. But, he shit all over us in so many ways, from his exit, to his deference in recruiting to appease his hero, Dean Smith, to his true failure as a coach in that last game … how could anyone not openly speculate he was hoping we would lose, so it would make his quitting easier? And the fact that Roy and his daddy Dean are the ones who set up the largest case of academic fraud in NCAA history makes me glad he’s gone.
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@KUSTEVE Roy, and all coaches, would have preferred to leave on a winning note. Your accusation to the contrary makes no sense. Why on earth would he rather leave with a second title game defeat?
In any event, he did not miss a single free throw that game, nor to my knowledge did he design a play to have Hinrich give up the last shot.
I fear your unhappiness with Roy has led you down a path unsupported by nothing but suspicion. But if you can point to any questionable coaching moves in that last game, I would be willing to reconsider!
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@mayjay My Roy “unhappiness”…lol. Ok, i’ll play along … let’s pretend Roy was only there for KU the whole time, always put KU first, and there was never a recruit east of the Mississippi that was worth taking in 15 years… but I have to wonder why after the game, one of the first questions he was asked by the Press was is he going to take the UNC job. Hmmm. So the Press were “suspicious” about Roy’s intentions. And here’s his response:
Williams lost last week to Syracuse in the national championship game and angrily refused to answer questions about North Carolina after the game. Matt Doherty resigned as Tar Heels coach shortly before the Final Four.
A week later, he is their new coach.
Here’s the link: https://www.ourmidland.com/news/article/Coach-Roy-Williams-Leaving-Kansas-for-UNC-7153088.php
I really like the first sentence of the article: Roy Williams told the Kansas Jayhawks he is leaving to coach North Carolina, his beloved alma mater, according to players who attended a meeting with him Monday.
There’s a phrase called “mailing it in”. I accuse Roy of mailing it in that last game. That doesn’t mean he tried to lose- he just didn’t try to win. In my opinion, he seemed aloof, distracted, and subdued through the whole tournament. Any reasonable fan would question the motives of a coach that refused to recruit 58% of the country for 15 years in deference to his “dream job at his beloved alma mater”. The truth is he never valued the KU job- if he had recruited the whole country, and had planted his flag at KU, then I have no doubts he would’ve won 3 national championships in the 15 years he was here. No telling how many national championships he would’ve had if he stayed, and was still coach ( as long as the academic fraud didn’t ruin our program).
I understand that Roy is like a saint to some KU fans, and he can do no wrong in their eyes. People were glad he wasn’t Ted Owens. He did an amazing job considering the self-imposed limitations he placed on himself and KU. Thank God he took the UNC job because if he had continued the academic fraud here, we might not even have a program ( we don’t have the pull with the NCAA that UNC does. I’m not sure anyone else, either. Maybe Duke. )
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Some possible KU memorials for Roy…
—A video installation of Roy saying he was staying at KU.
—A bronze statue of Roy standing on a map of USA west of the Mississippi.
—A post season loss crying garden
Note: Just kidding. Roy should be honored with portrait and a plaque commemorating his accomplishments in a row of portraits of KU HEAD COACHES, but nothing named for him and no statues.
Rock Chalk!
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As far as I am know, only areas/features related to sports are named after successful coaches or athletes so any areas not in the vicinity of a sports facility are probably not an option.
There is a big green area between AFH and Naismith, it could be made into the Bill Self Hall of Fame Park, where a statue of Self is prominently displayed along others of every KU athlete that was enshrined into a National Hall of Fame. Seems appropriate that it would be placed smack in between AFH and Naismith.
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HighEliteMajor said:
I’d go for statues of both Roy and Self.
As long as the statue of Roy includes a Jayhawk sticker then I’m fine with it.
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Happy for Roy. Never had anything against him. UNC is a great place to coach and his alma mater. He picked up where Larry left off and set the stage for Bill. Should’ve had 2-3 titles, but the tournament is brutal. Glad things worked out for both programs.
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@KUSTEVE It’s not that Roy is viewed as a “saint” as you mention. I don’t see anyone making that leap. I think many (most) KU fans view him with reverence.
And when you reference my issues with Self, big picture wise (in the way I’m suggesting you view Roy) I’ve never had any issues. My issues have been limited items — playing lower talent guys (Brady, Traylor, etc), limiting three point shooting (scheme), and some preparation issues.
The reality is, when you look at Roy’s entire body of work, UNC included, he may be the greatest coach (achievement wise)to have ever coached at KU.
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@HighEliteMajor I have never doubted his coaching abilities. Just his loyalties.
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@KUSTEVE I understand that thought process. If he was really loyal to UNC first, do you think he would have permitted KU to beat UNC in the 1991 Final Four, and to beat his mentor? I do understand your point though about recruiting and I agree that it is a good one. In fact, perhaps answering my own question here – but I could see how he could be loyal to Dean, not compete with him vigorously in recruiting as you suggest, but still compete on the court and want to win/beat UNC.
I do, however, strongly question and disagree with the position that he mailed anything in re: the 2003 championship game. In fact, winning that game would have strongly lessened any backlash on leaving. I think he desperately wanted to win that game. But I do understand you point on the distraction thing. I don’t think Roy created that though. UNC did.
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@HighEliteMajor I had forgotten about 1991. That sinks my battleship a bit. I made myself rewatch the KU/Cuse nc game for the first time ever yesterday, and my memory didn’t match what I saw. Roy looked more engaged than I had remembered, so I think you and Mayjay are probably right about him not tanking. I noticed in year’s past that Roy would get nearly hysterical on the sidelines in the tournament to the point that people wondered if he was icing the team, and this tournament he was really calm and subdued. So, I went back and looked at UNC’s first national championship, and Roy was just as subdued. So, maybe it was just a maturing process for Roy to remain more calm. Heck, if Roy can learn how to remain calm, maybe I can, too. Hehehe…
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@KUSTEVE When @HighEliteMajor and I agree on something, it is very likely correct!
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I can’t help but think of this song in this whole discussion.
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I don’t hold it agains Coach Williams that he left KU for UNC, I do have a problem with the way it was done and the blame for that falls entirely on Dean Smith. When Doherty was hired by UNC he was told he could bring his entire staff with him as it is customary but when he did they had a big problem letting go of existing coaches that were former UNC players including Phil Ford and it went downhill from there. Doherty was actively sabotaged by Dean Smith and the group that ran the program throughout his tenure culminating with a 5 day meeting with players parents behind Doherty’s back and afterwards he was given a choice to resign or be fired; he chose the first. This left UNC without a coach which put huge pressure on Coach Williams to go back as he was told he was the only hope for the program.
We all knew he was going to leave eventually but the way it happened was disgraceful. What made it worse was that Dean Smith, a Kansas native that played for KU and then became an assistant coach…stabbed his Alma Mater on the back. After that, I was not able to see Dean Smith in any other light.
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The Big XII Championship should be called the Self Trophy.
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Hey… you are on to something.
I’m willing to plant the appropriate garden; crimson tomatoes and blue blueberries…
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@wissox This is more like it for me:
