#1 TE in Kansas commits to KU verbally
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@Woodrow It probably won’t happen, but Hull is the one guy on this staff who has boosted his coaching profile and the one guy worth seriously considering retaining on this staff for the next HC. With the recruiting he’s done in Louisiana, I guarantee schools all over the place have taken notice of what he’s done on the recruiting trail and will be all over him if he’s available.
If KU wants to keep him, the next HC will likely have to make Hull the OC to keep him and that pipeline open. You may think that’s laughable, but Hull’s track record at the HS level in New Orleans and what he’s accomplished at KU says he’s a guy worth taking a chance on.
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A Beaty firing means KU starts completely over for the fourth time this decade, which resets the clock on being competitive back to zero.
That mass exodus that @Woodrow mentioned will mean that scholarship numbers will be back at first year levels when Beaty started (65ish scholarship players). That will take two more years for KU to even get back to a full compliment of scholarships, then a couple of years after that to be Power 5 competitive.
That’s a nightmare scenario, as it pushes KU being competitive in the Big 12 all the way out to 2023 or so.
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I believe it really depends on who the new coach is. A superior hire would not only keep the players and commitments but attract new, better players as well.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I don’t think you’re crazy or anything for thinking it.
It just seems very unlikely. Just not a norm for the profession. These guys put together staffs of guys they know and trust. And your OC is usually your right hand man.
The only way I see that scenario happening is if we hire a guy who calls his own plays.
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justanotherfan said:
A Beaty firing means KU starts completely over for the fourth time this decade, which resets the clock on being competitive back to zero.
That mass exodus that @Woodrow mentioned will mean that scholarship numbers will be back at first year levels when Beaty started (65ish scholarship players). That will take two more years for KU to even get back to a full compliment of scholarships, then a couple of years after that to be Power 5 competitive.
That’s a nightmare scenario, as it pushes KU being competitive in the Big 12 all the way out to 2023 or so.
I agree 100%. I am on the record saying they need to ride Beaty out for this year and see what happens. The Louisiana pipeline that he and Hull are building is a real thing and that will be gone with his firing.
If this year there is no true sign of progress and is a complete dumpster fire then the new AD’s hand is going to be forced and back to square 1 we go.
I really hope that the AD they hire has a connection to a decent coach. I saw where the SMU AD was rumored if you could get him and Chad Morris that would work.
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I could be talked into two more seasons of Beaty. But it has to be a significantly better product this season for me to buy that. I don’t even mean wins necessarily, but more competitive games.
Not a single one of the losses last year was a one score game. That would be a start.
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I’m torn. I don’t want a max exodus but Beatty is a terrible coach.
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I’m also scared to give Beaty another recruiting cycle if it is just going to be JUCO heavy again.
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Kcmatt7 said:
Not a single one of the losses last year was a one score game. That would be a start.
It’s pretty hard to be this bad but we are talking about a staff that looks pretty clueless. Guys are continually put in poor positions to succeed under this staff.
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@BShark Beaty seems like he got this job failing upwards lol. Like he’s George Costanza or something. He brought a calzone to his interview with Zenger and that was it.
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@Kcmatt7 Somehow…that story is 100% believable. Really glad Zenger is gone.
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Given the issues with the KU program (no coach has lasted more than four seasons since Mangino) it will be hard to attract a top coach.
KU will have a hard time finding a replacement with the revolving door of coaches and the constant change of direction for the program.
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Keeping Beaty will never yield anything productive. The man can’t stick with a plan as evidenced by the changes at OC and system every offseason.
Firing David Beaty does likely mean losing Tony Hull to an SEC program, but that’s not a given. A smart head coach will evaluate the current staff to see if there’s anyone worth keeping around to provide some continuity for the players. Tony Hull is by far the brightest coaching prospect on this staff so he’s the one to focus on.
The next step is that the new HC interviews Hull first to see if their personalities work well together and share a similar vision for the program. If that part goes well, then you figure out what it’ll take to keep Hull at KU which likely means promoting him to OC.
Given Hull’s background at the high school level in New Orleans and what he’s done with the RB’s at KU, I think Hull would make an excellent OC in the B12.
You have potentially 3 building block pieces that Hull has brought to KU to build around in Harris at CB who can be a guy that shuts down his part of the field. Williams at RB who can be a 200-250 carries a year type back and a 1,000 rusher.
Then you have Lance Legendre who if he stays committed is someone who could come in and start from day 1 at Kansas and give KU something they haven’t had at QB since Todd Reesing.
Losing Hull probably means losing all 3 of those guys and Legendre for sure. Any new HC hire with common sense is going to look at what’s already in place that’s worth building around and see that Hull is the guy who brought those players in and will give seri plus consideration to retaining Hull in some capacity at KU.
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justanotherfan said:
Given the issues with the KU program (no coach has lasted more than four seasons since Mangino) it will be hard to attract a top coach.
KU will have a hard time finding a replacement with the revolving door of coaches and the constant change of direction for the program.
It will be rough but I am convinced just about anyone would be better than Beaty at this point.
Now, if it means half the roster defects…
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@justanotherfan If he can’t show improvement this year he has to go. Because then we will end up with too many JUCO guys and scholarship numbers will be out of whack all over again with the new head coach.
Honestly, the time to fire him is mid-year this season if you’re going to do it. From there, you can be the first player in the new HC sweepstakes with plenty of cash to throw at your top candidate. You can get ahead of the rest and have a new HC before the bowl season is over.
My personal preference would be someone with success at a mid-major. Even more specifically, whoever we feel is the best candidate in the MAC would be my first choice. Jason Candle is an obvious choice if he puts up another big season. At 38 years old, he could be a long-term hire, potentially.
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@BShark If half the roster transferred out, is that really a bad thing considering KU was the only P5 offer a lot of those players received?
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I agree with that. But from Jason Candle’s perspective (borrowing your example) should you go to KU, where there have been four different coaches since the end of the 2009 season, none of whom have won more than five (FIVE!!!) games in their KU career?
There are going to be other opportunities. An SEC job will open up, with better recruiting ground. We both agree that Kansas doesn’t produce enough D1 talent to support one D1 program, let alone two.
It’s hard to attract a coach, and when you can’t even offer stability and some level of job security, you don’t have much else to offer.
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It really is not as difficult as it seems. KU would have to find a good coach, show him the school is ready to upgrade the facilities, give him the resources to succeed, give him a salary competitive with top coaches and above all…Carte Blanche to run the program without interference from the AD; the last one would be hard because no AD wants to give a coach unfettered control.
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@Kcmatt7 Any big name coaching is not staying at KU long term. If Candle came here and had any success, he’d be at or near the top of the list once Urban Meyer left OSU. There isn’t a coach in college football turning down the Ohio St. job to stay at Kansas.
If you want a coach to potentially stay at KU for a long time, an up and comer is not the answer because KU will either be his springboard to a better job or his graveyard as a HC.
The ideal candidate to stay at a place like KU for 10+ years is someone with strong ties to the program (nobody worth hiring fits that bill) or someone in their early 50’s that’s been a longtime coordinator at a winning P5 program. Think of someone like Bud Foster at Virginia Tech, but about 5-8 years younger. That’s the profile of someone who wouldn’t leave KU for the next available job.
Jason Candle wouldn’t last a recruiting cycle at Kansas if he had any on field success here.
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@JayHawkFanToo You would never give a HC total control of a program at the college level with zero interference from the AD’s office. That’s just asking for trouble in the long run from multiple directions in regards to recruiting and dealing with donors.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
I believe it really depends on who the new coach is. A superior hire would not only keep the players and commitments but attract new, better players as well.
lol, you REALLY think KU is going to get a superior hire to come here? - - - I think not. - - it sure the hell isn’t a step up for any Coach - -even assistant Coaches at this point. - -A Superior coach isn’t going to want to take a dive and take a chance on hurting his career. -I don’t think your going to find any named Coach sniff at this thing - -that’s what is laughable - -In order for that to happen I think you gonna have to shell out mega bucks and I’m not sure if really they want to do that -kind of sad but it’s honest. - - So we will just keep firing Coach’s every two-three years and stay on step 1 rinsing and repeating which is also sad. Not quite sure how the hell you get any kind of stability - - continuity with Coach’s & staff with that approach BUT we do it - -no wonder we can’t land better athletes when they have no idea who their Coach will be in the following year
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"The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it." -Theodore Roosevelt
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@JayHawkFanToo Those men who could potentially be trusted aren’t the coaches lining up for the Kansas job, so I don’t ever want to see a head coach at KU, Bill Self included, have 100% autonomy within their program. That’s asking for trouble in the industry of college athletics.
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I agree with giving Beaty this season and seeing what happens, but in terms of square one how are we not still at square one? We have one win in 3 years against FBS teams. Beaty also hasn’t helped the scholarship numbers as much as I expected and continues to do so with too many Juco guys. Only 11 players from Beaty’s first class remain, if he would have sold out on HS recruits the first 2 classes and only took 2 or 3 juco guys while he had no pressure for his job whatsoever we’d be in much better shape and prob have just as many wins.
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If you read my post you will see I listed what would be required to get such coach. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? Probably not…which is what I wrote in the first place.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
If you read my post you will see I listed what would be required to get such coach. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? Probably not…which is what I wrote in the first place.
oh ok thanks for correcting me - - - – -
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Cundiff has now withdrawn his verbal and switched to Wisconsin. Hate to see some of the handful of D1 talent leave our state but can’t blame him looking at both us and KSUs season thus far. That leaves us with a single recruit for this class as it stands, meaning the next HC could be in worse shape than Beaty with his use of the gray shirt. If there is any advantage to firing Beaty, recruiting could be it.
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So, who do you think the next coach might be? Look, it’s obvious Beaty is going to get the ax, he doesn’t win, and - with his job security being a constant public issue - can no longer recruit. So, who should it be? Please (though it might not be too bad of an idea) don’t say Mangino, that is a non-starter… I got one for you, Stoops, the fired Oklahoma DC (think about it for a minute…).
