Mitch Bulking Up
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@HighEliteMajor I certainly don’t want to see Mitch playing even close to 15 minutes a game next season.
Dedric 25-30
Doke 25
Silvio 20
Then divide the possible 10 remaining minutes based on match-ups and readiness between Dave and Mitch. It still wouldn’t be the craziest idea for Mitch to RS though I don’t think he will. I favor Dave getting minutes when possible because he’s probably going to be the starting center his 2nd year.
Apparently at this recent camp KJ was working w/ guards and bigs at times.
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Oh for the love of God can we stop with the Mitch redshirting? Please? The kid has some talent but he has a huge heart. He’s the kind of kid that makes those around him better. He may not be the most talented, but he makes up for it by laying it all out on the court. If any KU player deserves to play this next season. It’s Mitch. I would also add Doka to that fold. No, no, no, no, redshirt for Mitch. He’s needs to play.
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@HighEliteMajor Since early last year, he’s learned the offense, limited his foul trouble, and is more confident. Now seems that he’s a lot stronger and should be working on his 3 point shooting. On last year’s team, this bigger Mitch hopefully with a trey gun could have started at the 4.
I don’t think his trajectory has changed, I guess I’m more just in awe of the process. Relentless work and good coaching. We see boys become men every year on this team, but it doesn’t get old.
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@DoubleDD There’s nothing wrong with the idea of Mitch redshirting. This year’s front court is going to be stacked, especially if Silvio plays. That would give KU 5 legitimate bigs and that means someone is not playing many minutes.
If that person ended up being Mitch, why wouldn’t you redshirt him. When would he have more value, 2018-19 as the 5th big playing primarily garbage time next season or as a 5th year senior in 2020-2021 when he could be a legitimate starter for KU playing 25-30 minutes per game.
You’re focusing on the small picture of the 2018-19 season impact of a potential Mitch redshirt, take a couple of steps back and look at how a move like that impacts KU long term.
KU is likely going to be an incredibly young team in 2020-2021 and having a 5th year senior like Mitch on that team would be a huge boost for a group of very young players because he is a great leader and could be a coach on the court type player.
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I just like having Mitch around the program. Seems like a great guy. That’s why I wouldn’t hesitate to red shirt him if the bodies are there next year, we’d get a bonus year of Mitch teaching the Jayhawk way.
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@DoubleDD The posts by @Texas-Hawk-10 and @dylans hit it on the head, and square with your view. We get Mitch for 5 years and he has a much, much better chance of significant playing time when this team will likely need it more. That all said, we know how this works … DeSousa gets stuck in the NCAA abyss, and Doke twist a knee, Mitch may be starting.
And to quote Clint Eastwood in Unforgiven, “Deserves got nothin’ to do with it.”
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HighEliteMajor said:
@DoubleDD The posts by @Texas-Hawk-10 and @dylans hit it on the head, and square with your view. We get Mitch for 5 years and he has a much, much better chance of significant playing time when this team will likely need it more. That all said, we know how this works … DeSousa gets stuck in the NCAA abyss, and Doke twist a knee, Mitch may be starting.
And to quote Clint Eastwood in Unforgiven, “Deserves got nothin’ to do with it.”
Fair enough. Let me rephrase? Mitch has EARNED the right to play. We have all seen the stacks at Duke and UK? It doesn’t always work out. Mitch could be the key piece that makes this next KU team flow.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@DoubleDD There’s nothing wrong with the idea of Mitch redshirting. This year’s front court is going to be stacked, especially if Silvio plays. That would give KU 5 legitimate bigs and that means someone is not playing many minutes.
If that person ended up being Mitch, why wouldn’t you redshirt him. When would he have more value, 2018-19 as the 5th big playing primarily garbage time next season or as a 5th year senior in 2020-2021 when he could be a legitimate starter for KU playing 25-30 minutes per game.
You’re focusing on the small picture of the 2018-19 season impact of a potential Mitch redshirt, take a couple of steps back and look at how a move like that impacts KU long term.
KU is likely going to be an incredibly young team in 2020-2021 and having a 5th year senior like Mitch on that team would be a huge boost for a group of very young players because he is a great leader and could be a coach on the court type player.
I’m not against redshirting. Yet I don’t see how you sit Mitch? A proven commodity versus raw talent that may or may not pan out.
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DoubleDD said:
Texas Hawk 10 said:
@DoubleDD There’s nothing wrong with the idea of Mitch redshirting. This year’s front court is going to be stacked, especially if Silvio plays. That would give KU 5 legitimate bigs and that means someone is not playing many minutes.
If that person ended up being Mitch, why wouldn’t you redshirt him. When would he have more value, 2018-19 as the 5th big playing primarily garbage time next season or as a 5th year senior in 2020-2021 when he could be a legitimate starter for KU playing 25-30 minutes per game.
You’re focusing on the small picture of the 2018-19 season impact of a potential Mitch redshirt, take a couple of steps back and look at how a move like that impacts KU long term.
KU is likely going to be an incredibly young team in 2020-2021 and having a 5th year senior like Mitch on that team would be a huge boost for a group of very young players because he is a great leader and could be a coach on the court type player.
I’m not against redshirting. Yet I don’t see how you sit Mitch? A proven commodity versus raw talent that may or may not pan out.
Who’s the raw talent your speaking of?
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@HighEliteMajor @Texas-Hawk-10
Besides redshirting Mitch guarantees nothing. Coach is always over recruiting current players. I say use him. What he lacks in overall talent he makes up for in leadership and heart. With a young team coming in next year replacing 4 starters from last year. Mitch might be the magic potion that this teams need.
Last year everybody was clamoring for Mitch to ride the pine and red shirt. How did that turn out? Not so sure KU makes a final run with out the old Mitch Thunder.
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@DoubleDD It only matters if he is better than the other players at his position next season. By the end of last season Silvio had surpassed him. Speaking only of guys that can also play the 4, both Lawsons will also be ahead of him.
It is sounding more and more like KJ will find minutes wherever needed, probably mostly at the 3 but 3 or 4 really.
All this said, I do not think Mitch redshirts. The staff really leaves this up to the players. They will let Mitch know his pt prospects as the season approaches and it will be on Mitch to determine if he wants to play a little bit or RS to try and play more down the road.
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Let me ask you cats a question? Why are so many of you so quick to demand a Kid red shirt? I’m really confused here. I read posts after posts about how you hate the OAD. All that raw talent only to be gone after one year. Yet you’re so quick to put a good talent on the bench for a year thinking they’ll be great down the road. Yet when that next great talent comes down the road. Same kid you demanded redshirt for solid minutes later you demand should ride the pine.
Just curious?
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How many kids have redshirted under Coach
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How many stayed for their senior year, or 5 years
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How many kids redshirted only to ride the pine the next year?
You cats keep talking redshirt like its a great thing. When in fact your saying Love you Mitch your just not good enough to play at KU. Let’s be honest.
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I doubt he redshirts personally. We saw the volatility that proceeded with our roster especially in the post last year. Having just 10 eligible players made it difficult to have practice. We have 12 this year if Silvio is available. His direct competition is Silvio who may/may not play. If Silvio plays its just a numbers crunch. However I’d think you keep Mitch active just in case, we know this situation isn’t ending anytime soon. Someone is the odd man out. It’s not McCormack because he’s likely the backup 5 man. It sounds like KJ is going to be a hybrid forward learning both positions for flexibility in lineups. Mitch might be big #6. That’s where a redshirt seems like a possibility. Big #6 isn’t playing unless injury/suspension/eligibility concerns exist
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I mean to be fair I said I don’t think he redshirts DD. Really it’s just being brought up as a possibility. It takes a special kind of kid/player to want to redshirt and it’s not something the staff would try to force.
But to answer your questions, not counting RS years for transfer players like Withey, Lawsons etc or guys like Tyler Self/C Garrett who just took a RS year for another year around the program.
5
4 (BMac left after one year)
1 (Lucas, who RS his first year, obviously it worked out for him)
The list is Brady, Releford, Jamari, Lucas, BMac. BMac obviously wouldn’t have RS if not for his academic issues. A cool walk-on RS case was Conner Teahan, who ended up being a rotation player in his 5th year.
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@BeddieKU23 Agree. I also think, and I mentioned this earlier but it bears repeating that McCormack is very likely to start at C his SO year. You don’t want him going into that relatively cold when he can be afforded 7-10 minutes a game pretty easily.
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@DoubleDD one of my favorite players, Travis releford!
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played some D
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Why would Mitch want to red shirt? Many of you are assuming that if he does he would stay a 5th year which is possible but maybe not likely. I have not heard Mitch indicate a desire to play pro ball; perhaps he thinks about it like most Division I athletes do but the smart ones are aware of the long odds and their own limitation and they just want to get a degree with a full ride and without getting in debt. Student athletes that plan to play pro ball typically do not study engineering. Perhaps Mitch will develop into a NBA prospect but at this time I just see him as developing into a very good college player only. My guess is he will play 4 years, get his degree and move on.
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@DoubleDD Here’s the thing about redshirts, if Mitch redshirted this year and let’s say Silvio gets ruled ineligible and Doke has a long lasting injury, Self could take the redshirt off Mitch and play him if needed.
If a player voluntarily redshirts under Self, it means Self has plans for them down the line like he did for Morningstar, Releford, Teahan, and Landen Lucas.
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@JayHawkFanToo Mitch has future coach written all over him. You redshirt him so he can get a head start on his masters and when he’s done at KU, he joins Self’s staff as a GA and works his way up the coaching ladder from there.
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DoubleDD said:
Texas Hawk 10 said:
@DoubleDD There’s nothing wrong with the idea of Mitch redshirting. This year’s front court is going to be stacked, especially if Silvio plays. That would give KU 5 legitimate bigs and that means someone is not playing many minutes.
If that person ended up being Mitch, why wouldn’t you redshirt him. When would he have more value, 2018-19 as the 5th big playing primarily garbage time next season or as a 5th year senior in 2020-2021 when he could be a legitimate starter for KU playing 25-30 minutes per game.
You’re focusing on the small picture of the 2018-19 season impact of a potential Mitch redshirt, take a couple of steps back and look at how a move like that impacts KU long term.
KU is likely going to be an incredibly young team in 2020-2021 and having a 5th year senior like Mitch on that team would be a huge boost for a group of very young players because he is a great leader and could be a coach on the court type player.
I’m not against redshirting. Yet I don’t see how you sit Mitch? A proven commodity versus raw talent that may or may not pan out.
Who’s the raw talent Mitch is playing ahead of? Dedric Lawson who won American Conference POY, KJ Lawson who averaged 12 and 8 his sophomore season at Memphis, or Silvio DeSousa who already passed Mitch on the depth chart last season?
If you’re referring to David McCormack, they don’t play the same position and would have no impact on Mtich’s potential minutes.
Mitch is already last in the rotation at the 4 spot next year so redshirting isn’t an unrealistic possibility for Mitch next season.
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If Mitch had any plans of becoming a coach, Engineering would be the last thing he would be studying, don’t you think?
Don’t do what you are good at, do what you are passionate about and become good at it.
Now, what position do you see Silvio and Big Dave playing? I see Big Dave as a Center and Silvio playing the 4 or 5 when Doke is resting while Mitch will no longer be playing 5 but primarily 4 or 3. KU list KJ as a guard so he will likely not be involved in the bigs rotation. Mitch might well end up being the primary backup for Dedrick and as such get decent playing time.
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K.J. is working out w/both bigs and guards. In ku sports article.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
DoubleDD said:
Texas Hawk 10 said:
@DoubleDD There’s nothing wrong with the idea of Mitch redshirting. This year’s front court is going to be stacked, especially if Silvio plays. That would give KU 5 legitimate bigs and that means someone is not playing many minutes.
If that person ended up being Mitch, why wouldn’t you redshirt him. When would he have more value, 2018-19 as the 5th big playing primarily garbage time next season or as a 5th year senior in 2020-2021 when he could be a legitimate starter for KU playing 25-30 minutes per game.
You’re focusing on the small picture of the 2018-19 season impact of a potential Mitch redshirt, take a couple of steps back and look at how a move like that impacts KU long term.
KU is likely going to be an incredibly young team in 2020-2021 and having a 5th year senior like Mitch on that team would be a huge boost for a group of very young players because he is a great leader and could be a coach on the court type player.
I’m not against redshirting. Yet I don’t see how you sit Mitch? A proven commodity versus raw talent that may or may not pan out.
Who’s the raw talent Mitch is playing ahead of? Dedric Lawson who won American Conference POY, KJ Lawson who averaged 12 and 8 his sophomore season at Memphis, or Silvio DeSousa who already passed Mitch on the depth chart last season?
If you’re referring to David McCormack, they don’t play the same position and would have no impact on Mtich’s potential minutes.
Mitch is already last in the rotation at the 4 spot next year so redshirting isn’t an unrealistic possibility for Mitch next season.
Almost commented on this myself. Suffice to say I agree. Dedric is very skilled.
@Crimsonorblue22 Also bshark dot com mentioned it a bit ago.
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@DoubleDD Addressing your questions -
1.How many kids have redshirted under Coach - I don’t know. I do know that Releford, Lucas, and Traylor are relatively recent redshirts that stayed five years.
2.How many stayed for their senior year, or 5 years. See above.
3.How many kids redshirted only to ride the pine the next year? None that I can recall, other than the transfers. In fact, Mitch might be in between Lucas/Traylor and Releford on skill level. He could be a starter for two years, but certainly rotation.
No one is making a demand for a redshirt. Just suggesting it makes sense. I like Mitch and think his final year would be better for KU in year 5, than in year 4.
@JayHawkFanToo He would stay for the same reason others stay … because they gain no great advantage professionally leaving and they love everything about KU basketball. Five years in the KU program seems a like a better deal than four years.
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@HighEliteMajor All of this assumes that Silvio is eligble and no injuries. Doke has yet to play a full season. I think the red-shirt talk is premature.
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@Barney Right, so because there are “ifs” it’s not worth talking about? I specifically qualified it with the DeSousa issue. And redshirts are removable if injuries strike. But of course, we do not know what he next number of months will bring. Never really do on any topic.
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Mitch only knows one speed…
“That’s like 3 out of 10. In practice it’s 10 out of 10, guys be going at it, man,” Lawson said. “There was a play the other day in pickup, Sam [Cunliffe] went up for a dunk and Mitch went up with him. He fell hard. It’s just how coach got us playing and the competitiveness.”
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You can tell Mitch is bigger from that pic.
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I read to day that Mitch lead all scorers in today’s scrimmage with 26 points including 6 3s. He needs to study a guy like Perry Ellis or even Dean Wade for KSU. Learn to stretch the floor and be quick off the bounce to get his shots, Mitch probably won’t redshirt and we all know he’ll come to work everyday so I’m not counting him out for big minutes just yet.
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@kjayhawks 22 but still lol
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@BShark still a good outing lol
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Yeah not bad. What could change things and what we don’t know is what positions the staff views these guys. If Silvio and Dave are viewed as 5s and KJ is mainly playing the 3 suddenly Mitch is right there as the back-up 4. I’ll be interested to see how things shake out. Mitch isn’t a bad player, this is just a stacked KU roster down low.
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Exactly. That was the question I asked on a previous post. We don’t know what position Silvio and Big Dave will be playing and there is a good chance Mitch is the first backup at the 4 and, given his 3 point shooting, he might play the 3 as well; either way looks like Mitch will get decent playing time.
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@JayHawkFanToo You now are going a bit contrary to your regular position that we can play two fours. With DeSousa back, Mitch is the 4th big, right? There is no position issue that would stop Self from playing Dedric and DeSousa together. Or Doke/DeSousa. Or Doke/Dedric. Correct?
This is not a situation where DeSousa would back up just at the 5, or just at the 4.
Mitch is unquestionably, at best, the 4th big most every night. Until things change.
I just think we all need to reconsider this “Mitch hype” and remember that Bill Self put him on the bench for most of the important tourney games. Doesn’t mean he’s not good, just that other guys are better.
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@HighEliteMajor Imagine a Mitch capable of hitting 6 threes in a game, with 15 more pounds of muscle than last year, same FT %. Wouldn’t you want that guy in the game and guarding Spellman and Paschall last year?
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@approxinfinity Sure. I’m sure if that was a realistic possibility, Self would have had him in the game. Self played Mitch 2 minutes in the most important game of the year, even seeing that we were giving up open threes. This seemed like a pretty solid indication of Self’s thoughts there.
To be honest, the added “muscle” is not a big deal to me. That doesn’t help him guard on the perimeter much. And it doesn’t make them better at basketball. A little better footing down-low is the best part. But that added weight can slip off as workouts increase.
What is with this focus on Lightfoot? As if he’s magically gotten significantly better in a matter of 2+ months. And we’re taking June scrimmage results and extrapolating that to a performance in a Final Four type game. I just don’t get it.
Tempering the giddiness is a proven strategy.
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@HighEliteMajor you said he is unquestionably the 4th big at best. I’m questioning that. Not saying he IS higher in the pecking order at this point, just think he could be.
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Not really. With last year’s lineup, Mitch played almost exclusively the 5 which is not his natural position and was often overmatched physically by bigger opposing centers. Coach Self himself indicated that because of need Mitch was forced to play out of position; the arrival of Silvio helped some.
Now, he will be playing at his more natural position which is the 4 or even the 3 and with additional bulk to booth and, with his extended shooting range, he is becoming a stretch 4 which KU has not really had since the twins. If his shooting % from outside stays high he can even play the 3 which in most case would result in favorable matchups, particularly with his new size and blocking skills.
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@approxinfinity Ok – who might you think that Lightfoot is better than, or is it just a matchup type thing then (Doke being useless in certain defensive situations)? It would be an amazing thing for this program if he’s better than that the 4th big. If he can hit the three, and do it in game situations, even at 35% at higher shot rates, that would be a big plus for this team and would demand playing time as you suggest.
@JayHawkFanToo I see what you’re saying. I’m skeptical of the three thing, until I see it. But Mitch being more out on the floor as a four makes him more effective. All good points.
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@approxinfinity gonna flip your statement about Mitch guarding the nova 4 and 5 guys and say I’d like to see the nova guys guard the 3 hitting Mitch at the 4 spot.
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Other reason for redshirt, that free 5th year of education. If Mitch chooses the red shirt you would have to think that played into his choice. Watching his long range stroke another year might turn him into that long range big that JB says KU needs. He isn’t half bad now tbh although real game shots might be a bit tougher. The longer he stays at KU the better, his enthusiasm and knowledge benifits the team both on the floor and on the bench.
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I look at Mitch and I think “role player.”
So we are off-season now. Mitch can focus on his role for next year and he has months to mold himself better into his role.
How I see his role?
Off the bench but in a crucial role. He needs to be the high-energy scraper. Come off the bench and be our spark guy! Hustle for boards, 50/50 balls, in other words… his role is mostly to come in and give us + possessions while inspiring the rest of the players to hustle as much as he does.
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If Mitch bulks up a bunch and keeps trying to spring and run the floor, it will be interesting to see how long before tendons and ligaments start snapping.
