Draft Declarations Thread
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No harm in testing the waters and getting feedback. More than half of those guys know they are going to return, but it helps them understand what skills they need to work on over the next year or so.
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@justanotherfan No doubt, but I’ve never once heard the possibility of Vick returning to KU in spite of him not hiring an agent. Also most articles (if they mention him) say he should return to school, but I don’t get the feeling he’s welcome back.
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Newman has an Agent now I see. Only one left that we haven’t heard is Vick. Who knows he’ll probably use La La
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Combine Invites go out today. Could be as many as 6 KU players invited… We’ll see.
The most interest will be whether Doke gets one or not
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I highly doubt Doke, Preston, or Vick get an invite. I assume Graham, Svi, and Malik will.
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I think Preston gets an invite. NBA people will want to see him compete. He was a highly ranked player, so they will want to see where he is at. Combine invites are for those players that most teams would want to see work out anyway. I think Preston fits that category.
Doke is a tough call. NBA folks probably want to see if he’s healthy, but there are significant questions about whether he is still a year away. He may get some individual workouts, but may not get a combine invite.
I don’t think Vick will get an invite, but he should also get some individual team workouts, probably in a group setting as teams decide who to use 2nd round picks on.
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I expect Preston to get an invite actually.
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I expect Svi, Devonte, Malik, and Billy to get invited. Vick should start looking for international flights.
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I agree, too much upside with Preston to not get an invite. With a good showing he is probably first round.
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Svi Devonte and malik get combine invites
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Doke too. Everyone but Vick. Doke getting an invite feels like a favor.
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Color me surprised.
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Billy?
I’d want to see Dok too if I was an NBA exec just in case he stays in.
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dylans said:
Billy?
I’d want to see Dok too if I was an NBA exec just in case he stays in.
Yeah, Billy got invited.
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Very surprised as well. Johnathan Givony doesn’t even have Doke in his top 100 prospect list. I believe he has Billy at 86.
Also Vick is a alternate so if some guys decline the invite which happens by top prospects he could get to go.
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Actually Vick was invited as an alternate and in case on of the invitees decides not to go (many of the top players pass) or there are injuries he would be attending the combine.
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BShark said:
Doke too. Everyone but Vick. Doke getting an invite feels like a favor.
Just a sign he’s not returning
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BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
Doke too. Everyone but Vick. Doke getting an invite feels like a favor.
Just a sign he’s not returning
Probably right.
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BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
Doke too. Everyone but Vick. Doke getting an invite feels like a favor.
Just a sign he’s not returning
#BasseyWatch2k18
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I’m shocked Doke was invited but I guess the interest in him was greater then anything written about him. He’ll get his chance and he’ll get workouts etc. This seems like one we are seeing the first step to him finding a professional career.
The power of KU’s brand definitely helped him here.
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With Doke, evaluators want to know two things.
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Is he healthy
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Can he play as a rim running, PnR 5 in today’s NBA.
He was good catching lobs at KU, the question now is can he catch lobs off the PnR, and can he hold his own in isolation against guards since he will have to defend PnR switches. If he answers both of those questions positively, I can certainly see him staying in the draft. Doke will need a year in the G League before he’s ready for the NBA whether he stays at KU or not. If he’s close to ready now, he should spend that year in the G League now rather than a year from now.
Vick is going to be okay. He’s heading to the G League most likely. Teams just have to decide what priority to assign him (i.e., do you want to be sure you get him by drafting him in the second round, or do you think you can snag him as a free agent signee). Vick can play in the NBA. I think he likely will. Just not for probably two more years.
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Doke is now a one dimensional player with a still developing feel for the game and many holes in his game that I will guess the combine will expose. He really has no offensive game outside a few feet from the basket, is a below average rebounder for his size and his defense ouside the paint needs work.
Having said that, you can’t teach size and he is got plenty of that and he seems to be a quick learner and a hard worker. He probably will not get drafted but I am sure several team will want to extend a free agent contract to see if he can improve in the G League.
The question is does he want to come back for an additional year to improve his game and get most of his degree completed or make limited money in the G League with the hope of a larger pay check in the near future?
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https://twitter.com/nbadraftgod/status/991058618001772545?s=21
Vick will probably get his shot as a lot of big names are declining invites which is normal.
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Doke had a workout with the Lakers
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I don’t know why is it - -I’m starting to get more of a feel that we are going to lose Doke too?
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Landen Lucas never jumped that high in his life…
Dok was overweight a season ago, what would one more year of Hudy do for him?
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@dylans While I agree some that Landen never jumped that high , I do find it interesting that for all the comments made about Landen the stats show he really didn’t do that bad at all - -pretty good actually.
Rebounding is not all about how high you can jump , a lot more to it then that - and Landen was good at that - -jumping - - - but more importantly a key is positioning - work ethic, foot movement - - blocking out
If you take Udoka where he played the season - -his averaged 2.4 OR per game - - -4.6 DR per game 7.0 TRB -being supposedly 7 ft - which Coach Self said he wasn’t BUT
Now if you look at Landen where he had 2 full seasons - his JR & Sr years: – -he averaged 2.3 OR his Jr yr - -& 3.0 his SR yr - - - - - he averaged 4.5 DR hid JR yr - - - - 5.3 his SR yr
Landen finished very nicely in his two full season JR & Sr years 2 seasons in the top 10 offensive rebounding in the big 12 - - - - - 2 seasons top 10 defensive rebounding & 2 seasons in top 10 total rebounding in the big 12
in Total rebounding in 16-17 his Sr year in big 12 he accounted for 17.9% of the rebounds good for 2nd in the big 12 " " "- - - - - -for his career Landen accounted for 18.4 % of the rebounds good for 6th in the big 12
in Offensive rebounding in 16-17 his SR yr in big 12 he accounted for 13.8 % of the rebounds good for 3rd in the big 12 " " " for his career Landen accounted for 13.8 % of the rebounds good for 8th in the big 12
In Defensive Rebounding in 16-17 his SR yr in the big 12 he accounted for 21.8 % of the rebounds good for 3rd in the big 12 " - " " for his career Landen accounted for 22.4 % of the rebounds good for 8 th in the big 12
In offensive rebounds for his career Landen collected 248 good for 15th in the big 12( - playing part time Fr & Soph} - so not shabby with two season in the top 10 in offensive rebounding
In defensive rebounding for his career Landen collected 454 good for 17th in the big 12 - - ( still top 20 in the league for his career ) with two seasons in the top 10 in defensive rebounding
In total rebounds in his career he had two top 10 seasons his JR & Sr seasons - - - -You put all this together with on top of the fact when Coach Self asked the players who they wanted on the floor with them and they all said Landen - -Landen had a pretty good career jumping as high or not
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Doke’s size and athleticism are top notch. The question is how his basketball skills are going to develop. When in doubt, always bet on the athleticism.
Does an NBA franchise feel like sending Doke to the G League this year and part of next year is a good investment, or do they want him to go back to college, then spend one and a half seasons in the G League? Doke’s age makes this a complicated decision because he doesn’t turn 21 until September of 2020. He won’t be 19 until the start of training cap this year. He’s one of the youngest players in this year’s draft, younger than freshmen like DeAndre Ayton, Marvin Bagley and Mo Bamba. Doke is younger than Anfernee Simons, who would have been an incoming freshman this fall. The only players in the draft that I can find younger than Doke are Jontay Porter, who reclassified last year to play at Mizzou, and Issac Bonga, an international prospect.
Of that group, Doke is the only one to have two years of US college hoops. Porter has one, obviously, and Bonga has played in a pro league in Germany the last couple of years.
That might be enough to convince a GM to take the gamble and stash him in the G League for a year or two.
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@jayballer73 I hope Mitch can become as competent as Landon was. But I also know no matter how much talent you have 1-4 if Lucas is your starting center you aren’t going to the final four.
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I agree that a NBA team might take a gamble on Doke but it will not be in the draft. The more likely scenario is that he is offered a two way contract for the G League that allows him to move for up to 45 days to an NBA roster with the pay prorated to the basic rookie contract for the time spent at the upper level. I just don’t see an NBA team using a draft pick on a player lacking so many of the skills needed at the higher level. One extra year in college, and assuming he can correct his FT shooting, develop better rebound technique/production and most importantly, develop a mid range offensive game, then he would become a potential fist round pick.
The G League currently pays $7k for month plus expenses for a total of $35K for the 5 months of the season, If the player maxes out his time at the NBA level he can earn over $300K per season. Of course, if he is never called to the upper level then $35K plus some bonuses is all he gets. A year ta KU is likely worth twice that amount.
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The question remains whether he would be allowed to develop a midrange game by returning to KU? What’s better for KU - to have Doke shoot 65% because he’s adding a face up game from 10 feet, so he misses some turn around jumpers and such, or have Doke shoot 80% on dunks, layups, jump hooks and lobs?
Can Doke develop in the ways he needs to by returning to Kansas?
Or more accurately, will Bill Self allow Doke to develop the way he needs to in order to succeed professionally?
That’s a question Doke has to answer just as much as NBA teams have to answer the draft/G League/ two way question. But I ultimately think the answer to those questions is not in Lawrence.
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If he stays at KU, his development must happen during the off season and he will just polish the new skill during the regular season. Frankly, if Doke can develop a decent mid-range game, he would be that much more valuable to KU since he becomes a lot more difficult to guard and I can see why the coaching staff would want him to do it. Just my opinion.
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dylans said:
@jayballer73 I hope Mitch can become as competent as Landon was. But I also know no matter how much talent you have 1-4 if Lucas is your starting center you aren’t going to the final four.
Yes very true - -Landen was a decent big nothing flashy but solid - still like you say that just isn’t getting you to a final four
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@jayballer73 It doesn’t make me like him less. Love me some Lando, but it is what it is.
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dylans said:
@jayballer73 It doesn’t make me like him less. Love me some Lando, but it is what it is.
I wasn’t really calling you our directly - just been people bagging on him - a lot not even on this site - -just think it’s kind of funny - he had a pretty decent JR & Sr season that’s all I thinking
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Landen Lucas should have gone down as one of the great five year role players in the history of KU basketball. He did everything he was supposed to, its just that he was asked to do more than he ever should have been. He wasn’t supposed to ever be a starter at KU. Had he been allowed to be a 10-15 minute per game player, his weaknesses would not have been exposed and he may have been a part of a couple of Final Four teams, maybe even a champion.
Lucas was a perfect backup at a school like KU. But he was forced into a role as a starter, which was unfair to him to have to carry that weight of expectation. Imagine if a guy like Jeremy Case had been required to be the starting PG for KU as a junior and senior, or if Jamari Traylor had been asked to be the starting PF his last two years. We would remember them differently because they would have been in roles that exceeded their skills. Jamari got a little bit of that as it was because KU was thin up front towards the end of his career.
We view Landen in a different light because of the role he was cast in, when if we view him as a solid backup, he actually exceeded expectations. That’s how I try to look at Landen now that his career is over - solid backup that was overextended as a starter. He played to his skill level. He was just over extended in the role he was given.
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@justanotherfan good post. led the Big 12 in FG% as a starter. While the Jordan Bells of the world took advantage of Landen, he still put us in position to get that shot against Oregon. Nothing but love for the big guy.
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And, unfortunately, the above analysis being correct, it leads to only one conclusion. Bill Self blew it. Both with his decisions on playing time and his roster building. Watching Nova win it all, watching teams win with the stretch 4 at the 5 spot, we can now see how valuable Diallo would have been had he been managed properly. Self was behind the curve there and chose the plodder. How history might have been different had Diallo been the choice of Lucas.
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@HighEliteMajor seems logical from outside looking in, but that’s assuming we know all of the factors at play.
Also, Diallo would have been gone, but I don’t think that’s your point. You’re talking about “the Diallos” and “the Landens”. Devil may be in the details though.
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Maybe Self never wanted Diallo, but Adidas did…
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@approxinfinity I was referring to Diallo the season we lost to Nova in the Elite 8. That year, Diallo was banished in favor of the pedestrian Lucas, on the apparent assumption that we only needed our post man to do certain things. We can always revert to the idea about other factors. It is the perpetual “get out of jail free card” that can be played at any time, from folks (not you) that have no other explanation for bad decisions. It can always be a partial explanation – of everything and anything.
The handling and lack of use of Diallo was horrible and unforgivable. Diallo wasn’t this unique, stupid, malcontent who was incompetent on the court. You develop a player over a season.
If Lucas had been here this past season, or Traylor, DeSousa would never have seen the court. And DeSousa was twice the player (a minor hyperbole alert) that either of those guys ever were, within 60 days of setting foot on campus.
However, the second part of my point is just as horrible and unforgivable – being in a position to rely on Lucas a starter as you pointed out (same with Jamari Traylor). Our program, our results, would have been better if neither of those players ever started a game. Bill Self need only look in the mirror when wondering why, over Mason’s four seasons, we never reached the final four.
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I disagree. Diallo’s issues and his late start placed him way behind the curve with the KU system in part due to the late start and in part due to his low basketball IQ due to his previous limited exposure to the sport and, while extremely physically gifted, proved to be a slow learner. At KU he was more of a liability than an asset and the players themselves chose Lucas over him…this is pretty telling.
In his second year in the League he still has not secured a spot in the rotation or roster because of his highly inconsistent play and he either plays during garbage time or has lots of DNP- Coach decision. Even this season he spent time in the G League learning the game. Obviously the Pelicans hope he will eventually develop but at this time he looks like the prototype journeyman bench warmer.
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Measurements:
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Svi 6’ 6.5’’ without shoes and only a 6’ 4.75’’ wingspan. He is essentially a 6’5 type player. Not good.
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Newman 6’2.5 without shoes and a 6’5.5 wingspan
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Doke 6’10 without shoes and a 7’7 wingspan!!!
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Preston 6’8.75 and a 7’2 wingspan
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Devonte 6’0.25 without shoes and a 6’6.25 wingspan
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@JayHawkFanToo One observation I make is that Landen Lucas is playing basketball in Japan, on some team called Toyota Alvark. If the logic you are suggesting is each player’s respective professional standing, Lucas is playing in McDonalds and Diallo is a step below Jean Georges in NY City. Diallo has actually played in an NBA game. Multiple games.
Now, you do realize what you’re saying. You’re saying that Diallo was so incompetent (BB IQ), and that despite the fact that he was simply better at basketball than our slug Landen Lucas, Self just couldn’t play him. Yet, Diallo was somehow competent enough (BB IQ) to play in the NBA. 12 games his first season, 52 his second.
He was never more of a liability than an asset. He just needed game action to develop and acclimate. No doubt, it takes a little time to grasp the entire Self scheme. Self was just impatient because he had his safety blankets.
What he needed was time, commitment, and coaching. They gave up on him. They chose to abandon his development in favor of a low, low ceiling Lucas who when matched against better players, gets overwhelmed. The evidence is undeniable. Yet, in the face of knowing that, seeing that, and seeing the alternative player actually playing in the NBA while our guy (Lucas) sets picks on the Hamburglar in the basketball stronghold of Japan.
It’s the same reason for playing Jamari Traylor – the “known” was less risky than the “unknown.” Bad way to make decisions.
It was a huge fail by Self and his staff.
@BigBad - Wrong. Just dead wrong. Diallo was 6’7 1/2 barefoot with a 7’ 4 1/2 wingspan. Standing reach over 8’ 11".
Lucas’ wingspan is 4 1/2 inches less than Diallo.
Lucas was not a rim protector. Diallo was. Diallo could jump. Lucas, well, not really.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2640034-cheick-diallo-nba-combine-2016-measurements-analysis-and-draft-projection http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Cheick-Diallo-71440/
http://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3919335/cheick-diallo
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And yet when asked by the players who they would rather have trust on the floor more steady - they all in /unison said - - LUCAS - -hmmmmmm
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What am I wrong about? All I did was list yesterdays measurements. I wasn’t comparing them to anyone.
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#Pelicans The Pelicans are counting on Cheick Diallo to become an “impact player” for them in 2018-19.
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@BigBad I know
