Whiff City
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BShark said:
@BeddieKU23 I mean, someone in his camp has to be anti-KU right? This recruitment was too weird for that not to be the case.
Probably his mother. Of course I’m assuming but what mother wants her child so far from home in an unfamiliar area. I doubt it was the father seems how he has been pretty high on KU with each visit. I could be wrong though.
There’s a lot of ways to look at this.
He visited Maryland out of respect to the coaches and his friend Aaron Wiggins. Take advantage of the visits, see what they had to offer with fit etc. It’s closer to home and his friend is obviously holding some sway here.
How could he look at their depth chart and be excited about competing for PG minutes with Cowan. Keldon Johnson looks like he’s a Terp as well which puts even more doubt in where his minutes are. Huerter will be Jr as well who handles some PG responsibilities. They also have Morsell who will play this year and most likely split some time at both guard positions.
At this point each school has competition. If he doesn’t feel Vick is leaving and Grimes is a lock for KU then we really can’t convince him otherwise that he’d beat out Charlie Moore. As a blueblood school this is on Self to close the deal.
The one thing that keeps me confident at all is KU is locked in on Dotson and Grimes only. There is no one else. That is unlike most years where Self likes someone more then others but keeps recruiting that position with other targets. We are not seeing that this year. We’ve mentioned Ayo and Carey as examples of that & others.
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Just as Maryland was asked to provide a realistic depth chart I’m sure KU was asked to do the same.
Known returners - Moore, Garrett
High probability of entering the draft- Newman
Probably will test the draft process- Vick
Leaving due to graduation- Graham
Best Case Scenario KU returns 4 of its 5 rotation guards.
Worst Case Scenario KU returns 2 of its 5 rotation guards.
Middle of the Road Scenario KU returns 3 of its 5 rotation guards.
I’m sure this is a big debate among the Dotson’s…
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Looks like Jules Bernard is all UCLA…
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Bol Bol down to Oregon and Kentucky.
Would be funny if he goes to Kentucky after Cal cut him this summer. Oregon could get the 2nd player Cal cut (King)… Some great leftovers. I think Bol Bol wants the attention he’d get at Kentucky
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Is Vandy a legit concern for Langford? They are likely going to land Garland and all the recent smoke is they will get Shittu as well. Hmm Vandy goes from landing the occasional Top 100 player to possibly 3 5 stars, hmmm okay
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Emmitt Williams has visisted Oregon. Has LSU and Florida also coming up. Wants to see Duke. Looks like KU lost out there with getting others. With all the rumors of his handler running things I don’t think he was in control of where he went anyway (all Nike)
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Ayo down to Illinois and Wake Forest… Manning could real in another big one
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@BeddieKU23 Self could realistically tell Dotson that he’s the starter at PG, correct? Do you see any impediment there? Charlie Moore isn’t much of a roadblock it would appear/I would hope.
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@BeddieKU23 Bryce Drew. Will he be a better coach with talent than his brother?
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I said it before and I will say it again…if an elite PG is afraid of competition from a player like Moore (no disrespect intended), do you really want that player?
Moore is a good or even a very good player but I am not sure anyone would call him elite.
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BeddieKU23 said:
The one thing that keeps me confident at all is KU is locked in on Dotson and Grimes only. There is no one else. That is unlike most years where Self likes someone more then others but keeps recruiting that position with other targets. We are not seeing that this year. We’ve mentioned Ayo and Carey as examples of that & others.
Great point. If Grimes goes to Kentucky and Dotson to Maryland, who does KU focus their attention on for a point capable guard? Langford would be a terrific score but doesn’t fit that description of being a PG and he is the only other true guard I’m hearing that KU is after.
I really hope Dotson picks KU, he is a perfect fit and i could just see him blowing up here. Would hate to see that kind of talent end up at MD and be wasted. Turgeon has been coaching there for 7 seasons, has only made the tourny three of those 7 seasons and has a winning percentage of 67%. His seeds those three seasons he made the tourny were #4, #5, & #6. During that same time period under Self, KU has made the tourny all seven years and obviously won the conference championship all seven of those years. Self’s winning percentage is 83% and his worst seed in the tourny in the past 7 years was a 2! Four of the last seven seasons KU was a 1 seed and the other three KU was a 2 seed. If Dotson wants to win, and with winning comes the spotlight and publicity, there is a clear and obvious choice here.
Melo Trimble was similarly ranked to Dotson. He ended up playing at MD for three years and then went undrafted. Kansas’ PG the last three years was a guy that was undersized, unranked, and ended up being player of the year. Just sayin…
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HighEliteMajor said:
@BeddieKU23 Self could realistically tell Dotson that he’s the starter at PG, correct? Do you see any impediment there? Charlie Moore isn’t much of a roadblock it would appear/I would hope.
He reportedly did tell Dotson he would be starter from day 1. He also said the same to Grimes. That’s what both have said in regard to what Self’s main message was to them.
I don’t see any impediment with Moore from viewing Charlie’s film and statistics. Plus we give up a good bit of size if we are relying on Moore as a starter next year. He’s smaller then Mason and not even in the same ballpark athletically. I think Moore’s best years are as Jr & Sr, a full 2 years after being in the system. At least that’s where I see his game going at this point.
But that doesn’t mean Dotson and his family are looking at it that way. And who knows what way they are looking at it from. The situation with Grimes makes it harder to convince 5 stars they can co-exist (unless your Cal and Coach K)
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“If Grimes goes to Kentucky and Dotson to Maryland, who does KU focus their attention on for a point capable guard? Langford would be a terrific score but doesn’t fit that description of being a PG and he is the only other true guard I’m hearing that KU is after.”
I don’t know, we’ve been in this position before like last year when we put all our eggs into Trae Young and Colin Sexton baskets. We tried to land Sexton first then whiffed, then Young gave us the slip as well after. There were others as well but we ended up with Charlie Moore which was a disappointment IMO. Maybe Charlie pans out, he definitely was a “safe option” that will be here for the next 3 seasons. At minimum we have a guy with PG experience on the D-1 level who produced in a Power 5 conference. CM might not be the “sexy” option but at least he’s here battling now with Devonte to learn the ropes. Usually those guys end up doing good things under Self. But CM has his limitations height wise, athletically, and questions about his efficiency and production. Obviously KU provides him the opportunity to improve tremendously on everything.
It’s certainly possible we don’t land either target again and at that point we’d be stuck looking at the spring for whatever leftovers pop up. We shouldn’t be in that position hopefully. At some point though despite the two bigs he’s landed so far we’d have to start questioning our recruiting approach with these top ranked guards. We just need one to change the narrative.
I agree Dotson could have a really good career here. I don’t know what approach they took with him but if they weren’t showing him what Frank did last season then I don’t know. Dotson has a lot of qualities that mix and match with not only Frank but fellow North Carolina native Devonte. He absolutely fits the type of guard that would thrive here.
The one thing that should be important in Dotson’s mind in regards to his future after College is what school benefits him the most for the NBA. If we take Frank and Melo for example.
Melo- big freshman year, inconsistent soph year, big junior year- goes pro- undrafted
Frank- backup role as a freshman, starter as a Soph, starter as a Jr (inconsistent year overall), POY as a Sr - 2nd round pick.
Neither came to College with the ideal measurable’s the NBA salivates over. Neither went 1st round although Frank’s play got him drafted despite his frame. Playing at KU was a huge advantage over playing at Maryland.
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If we have to go to battle with Charlie Moore at point guard, I’m fine with that. He might be short, but the biggest front line in like …ever will mitigate some of my concerns about his height. Self will have him driving to the basket and dumping off to our enormous front line all game long. Charlie has a shot at being a pretty decent college player, imo. That’s the beauty of having an entire year for Charlie to get better going against Devonte and Newman. I like the way he plays. He can’t drive the ball like Frank, so he pulls up on his way to the basket, and shoots a funky little mini shot, which keeps him from being eaten alive in the paint. It kind of reminds me of the Selden sideway shot, where Wayne would drive sideways across the middle of the lane, and miss a 4 foot shot by 2 feet. Only Charlie, unlike Wayne, makes that funky shot. Love Wayne, though. Just not that shot.
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BeddieKU23 said:
Looks like Jules Bernard is all UCLA…
KU never had a chance here.
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BeddieKU23 said:
Bol Bol down to Oregon and Kentucky.
Would be funny if he goes to Kentucky after Cal cut him this summer. Oregon could get the 2nd player Cal cut (King)… Some great leftovers. I think Bol Bol wants the attention he’d get at Kentucky
I have no doubt Bol Bol wants Kentucky. This class sucks for bigs, so I would bet Cal takes him.
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BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
Looks like Jules Bernard is all UCLA…
KU never had a chance here.
I agree was just posting for those that may try and bring his name up again
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BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
Bol Bol down to Oregon and Kentucky.
Would be funny if he goes to Kentucky after Cal cut him this summer. Oregon could get the 2nd player Cal cut (King)… Some great leftovers. I think Bol Bol wants the attention he’d get at Kentucky
I have no doubt Bol Bol wants Kentucky. This class sucks for bigs, so I would bet Cal takes him.
He has the most boom or bust potential I’ve seen a long time.
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BeddieKU23 said:
Is Vandy a legit concern for Langford? They are likely going to land Garland and all the recent smoke is they will get Shittu as well. Hmm Vandy goes from landing the occasional Top 100 player to possibly 3 5 stars, hmmm okay
Shittu, what a bizarre recruitment. Looks like he wants to be the guy? Also he’d probably be at UK but UK didn’t take him due to Barrett.
For those that don’t know Barrett and Shittu had some kind of rift, iirc it involved Barrett’s dad. Mutually exclusive recruits.
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BeddieKU23 said:
Emmitt Williams has visisted Oregon. Has LSU and Florida also coming up. Wants to see Duke. Looks like KU lost out there with getting others. With all the rumors of his handler running things I don’t think he was in control of where he went anyway (all Nike)
KU absolutely made the right decision imo. Williams is a nice player, very tough and intense motor so Self would have loved him but when you can lock up a couple top 40 guys early you do it. Esp considering the Nike risk here.
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BeddieKU23 said:
Ayo down to Illinois and Wake Forest… Manning could real in another big one
Yeah, KU didn’t even try here. Unfortunate because I think he is a good player but if KU lands Dotson and Grimes, no complaints.
Supposedly there is a rift between Dosunmu and THT but I’ve also seen that refuted…
Hope he ends up at Wake.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
I said it before and I will say it again…if an elite PG is afraid of competition from a player like Moore (no disrespect intended), do you really want that player?
Moore is a good or even a very good player but I am not sure anyone would call him elite.
Like Frank, I think Moore is more of a scoring guard that would have to grow into being a PG. Kid can fill it up but it would be nice if he was one of the first guards off the bench next year.
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@KUSTEVE I don’t know. Moore just seems marginal to me. @BeddieKU23 said, “But CM has his limitations height wise, athletically, and questions about his efficiency and production.” True. And I don’t like that truth. CM seems like a guy that is a capable back up, and a guy that we can easily (and should) recruit over. But that judgment is made off his freshman season, and seeing him from the Italy trip. I just don’t want to go to battle with him starting.
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This will be a backtrack from my previous assertions (as @Texas-Hawk-10 knows…) but if KU misses on Dotson and Grimes but lands say, Langford, I could see Garrett starting at PG. I’m really coming around on Garrett.
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@BShark So what do you think of Garrett’s ballhandling? Seems a little 2-guardish. I used to be ok with that to a degree, but after the EJ experience, I’m a pure point guard guy. No combo guards please – combo guard is code for, “can’t dribble like a point guard.” I want the bad a** ball handler.
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So Keldon Johnson is pushing back his decision 3-4 more weeks. The Maryland board is melting down. If we believe that UK is the main comp for Grimes (honestly Marquette COULD be) then we would hope Johnson changes to UK (recent momentum was all MD but it appears he is changing his mind).
HighEliteMajor said:
@BShark So what do you think of Garrett’s ballhandling? Seems a little 2-guardish. I used to be ok with that to a degree, but after the EJ experience, I’m a pure point guard guy. No combo guards please – combo guard is code for, “can’t dribble like a point guard.” I want the bad a** ball handler.
Oh 100% I want to see Dotson a Jayhawk and running the point next year.
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I think Garrett could handle himself at PG. I do worry about his quickness against smaller guards. But if his reputation for defense translates we’ll see. He’s definitely an advantage to have at the position if he is as good as advertised
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@KUSTEVE I don’t think anyone here is doubting the kid’s ability to fill it up.
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@HighEliteMajor Garrett was point guard on a state championship team. His defense has already assured him of playing time in the rotation. EJ was never a point guard, although he tried it for us for a while. If we’re down to Garrett as the point guard, I don’t think he makes us forget Frank, or remember EJ.
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KUSTEVE said:
@HighEliteMajor Garrett was point guard on a state championship team. His defense has already assured him of playing time in the rotation. EJ was never a point guard, although he tried it for us for a while. If we’re down to Garrett as the point guard, I don’t think he makes us forget Frank, or remember EJ.
From what I’ve seen so far, Garrett sees passing lanes quite well. I definitely agree we need to see how he handles ball pressure at the D1 level. That will be a big part of if he can play PG for KU or just be a utility guard that is a solid handler for his size, a really good passer and a guy that sometimes starts the offense in the half court.
The system he played in during HS is probably not known by some KU fans. He was coached hard in HS. Coached to play team ball. His HS coach is Paul Graham, who coached with Self for 2 years at OSU under Sutton (7 years). Nuff said.
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BShark said:
So Keldon Johnson is pushing back his decision 3-4 more weeks. The Maryland board is melting down. If we believe that UK is the main comp for Grimes (honestly Marquette COULD be) then we would hope Johnson changes to UK (recent momentum was all MD but it appears he is changing his mind).
HighEliteMajor said:
@BShark So what do you think of Garrett’s ballhandling? Seems a little 2-guardish. I used to be ok with that to a degree, but after the EJ experience, I’m a pure point guard guy. No combo guards please – combo guard is code for, “can’t dribble like a point guard.” I want the bad a** ball handler.
Oh 100% I want to see Dotson a Jayhawk and running the point next year.
Confirmation of a completely lunatic fanbase
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Ok had to share this particular post. They are already prepared.
“Yup…first comes the meltdown. Then “credit to staff for putting in a lot of work”… then “Ayala is really like a top 40 player, he’s just rated too low”… then we’ll pick up a transfer who has to sit out and some average euro big that everyone will overhype…we will win some games on a soft schedule but continue to underperform in March…Maybe we’ll be a 5 seed and luck into a sweet 16 or maybe we’ll just lose on the first weekend. Sigh. TURGATORY”
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@KUSTEVE EJ actually was point guard in high school, in Vegas. He was recruited as a point guard. I spent some time researching him and all of that, trying to convince @jaybate-1-0 that he should start over Tyshawn at the PG spot. Anyway, as you know, handling the ball against some guys that will be lacing them up for intramurals the next year isn’t near D-I stuff. I like your projection there … between Mason and EJ. That’s tolerable. And that’s all we might need.
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@BeddieKU23 Same poster that called Grimes a PG target and competition for Dotson just called Grimes a UK wing target and competition for KJ. I’m dying. Dead.
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@HighEliteMajor I didn’t know that about EJ. In a word, Michigan. Remember that one?
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@KUSTEVE PG on rivals, 2G on scout. I don’t remember what ESPN had him as. Either way his best year at KU was playing off the ball.
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@KUSTEVE What about it? Nut shot? Bad end of game, end of OT plays by Self? Blown big lead? Failure to foul Burke before the 3 point shot?
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That L was on Self.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
I said it before and I will say it again…if an elite PG is afraid of competition from a player like Moore (no disrespect intended), do you really want that player?
Moore is a good or even a very good player but I am not sure anyone would call him elite.
This is what I’m saying also. - -If indeed Devon is a really good talent , then why shy away from competition? - -A talented player isn’t golng to back away from a challenge - -any challenge. This is how you improve anyways to go against other good competition. - -Again if they feel he should just be handed the starting position? - -Then why do we want him? - -Nothing is a given - you earn it. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LPONG BABY
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@RockkChalkk The stats you bring up to compare pretty well speak for themselves between the Schools & Coaches, there is NO COMPARISON. - - Again if it turns out they want him to be handed the starting position then I say - -Maryland - -your welcome to him. - -I want a player who is a competitor and not afraid of a challenge.
In the end if it comes down to it , and we lose on Devon for next year - - -well then so be it. - It’s not the best option we would like BUT I think we have enough that we can manage just fine. - -Moore will be here, maybe Garrett might be able to help out some. - -I think we would live. - Would love to have Devon but the world is not going to come to an end if he signs with Maryland. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BeddieKU23 I for sure understand what your saying. - -I still don’t see why Grimes coming would be or has to be such a big issue with Dotson. - Again Grimes has said he would have no problem sliding over to the two. - There is no reason in hell why these two couldn’t co- exhist and be on the floor at the same time. - When Dotson on the bench , then slide Grimes to the one. - The more I hear and read , it’s sounds like to me that this family just wants a starting spot hand wrapped for him.
I think what really comes into play is where does DEVON want to go to school? - -Not Mommy – Not daddy - -but Devon , ya ya I know he wants to keep them happy - -I get that but in the end it should be Devon’s decision , he should be the one with the final say - he is starting his own life now. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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jayballer54 said:
@RockkChalkk The stats you bring up to compare pretty well speak for themselves between the Schools & Coaches, there is NO COMPARISON. - - Again if it turns out they want him to be handed the starting position then I say - -Maryland - -your welcome to him. - -I want a player who is a competitor and not afraid of a challenge.
In the end if it comes down to it , and we lose on Devon for next year - - -well then so be it. - It’s not the best option we would like BUT I think we have enough that we can manage just fine. - -Moore will be here, maybe Garrett might be able to help out some. - -I think we would live. - Would love to have Devon but the world is not going to come to an end if he signs with Maryland. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
But MD actually has TOUGHER competition for the PG spot than KU does, thats the funny thing about it. I really don’t understand what the hangup is, i don’t see any reason other than his buddy Wiggins is going to play there as a legit reason to go to MD over KU.
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@BeddieKU23 We mention his size and that’s very true. - I’m just kind of interested to see -how does he compare to the what 5’10 pg we had play for us when we won the Gold that played at SMU but he went with us - -what was his name? - -Nick Moore - is that right - -aren’t they about the same , and didn’t he do ok with our KU boys? - - Just curious , not saying I’m right or wrong on this - -just curious. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@RockkChalkk Me neither. - just when you figure you got these 18-19 yr old kids heads figured out - -I just don’t get it. - -But again like yo said - is he afraid to compete? - - - If what your saying about tougher at Maryland - -maybe HE see the competition of who we have it’s tougher I sure the hell don’t know anymore lol. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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jayballer54 said:
@BeddieKU23 I for sure understand what your saying. - -I still don’t see why Grimes coming would be or has to be such a big issue with Dotson. - Again Grimes has said he would have no problem sliding over to the two. - There is no reason in hell why these two couldn’t co- exhist and be on the floor at the same time. - When Dotson on the bench , then slide Grimes to the one. - The more I hear and read , it’s sounds like to me that this family just wants a starting spot hand wrapped for him.
I think what really comes into play is where does DEVON want to go to school? - -Not Mommy – Not daddy - -but Devon , ya ya I know he wants to keep them happy - -I get that but in the end it should be Devon’s decision , he should be the one with the final say - he is starting his own life now. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Kids say things they don’t really mean all the time. If Dotson picks KU and Grimes goes to Marquette (where he would start at PG) then we know that line was bunk…
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Ok, so here is a pretty simple question. - When all the fire and smoke clears - -Bottom line , Does Romeo Langford end up here at Kansas? - - -Yes OR No? - -what is the odds ?
I think we are looking at like a 50/50 chance right now - -I think it will come down to KU & Indiana - -I think about the ONLY reason for this is - -the closeness of home for him , that’s why Indiana is a serious contender here. - So let’s hear ya fella’s - Yes - -or No. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 I say yes, Langford comes to KU. Grimes goes elsewhere and Dotson i’m not sure on. The longer Dotson takes to decide the better i think the chances of him picking KU are. Dotson and Langford to go along with the two Bigs would be an amazing class.
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@HighEliteMajor Yeah, that one.
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RockkChalkk said:
@jayballer54 I say yes, Langford comes to KU. Grimes goes elsewhere and Dotson i’m not sure on. The longer Dotson takes to decide the better i think the chances of him picking KU are. Dotson and Langford to go along with the two Bigs would be an amazing class.
KU would have to really eff up the visit for Grimes to not be a Hawk imo. UK lingering is never good but KU can win this one.
