Transfers and the Bill Self Culture of Winning
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@BeddieKU23, you mentioned your concern about the short rotation with the transfers in the Moore thread and I’ve been mulling over this idea the last couple days. I just had sinus surgery this AM (all good) and am on pain pills so if this post doesn’t get where it needs to be can someone carry the idea over the finish line please?
@BShark also made a good post here regarding high level transfers and attitude and @JayHawkFanToo you also said something that jived with this.
I couldn’t agree more. I don’t think it is a coincidence that Self is grabbing 3 high level transfers this year, and Malik and Cundliffe last year. That love for Tarik thread says it all.
Bill Self is a builder. What he builds is culture.
And in that light Tarik is just as valuable a recruit of that class as Wiggins and Embiid. Not as valuable as Frank. But the two wunderkinds? Yes!
On court, Wiggins might have been saving the goods. Embiid gave us what he could but got injured and couldn’t come back. These two get us high level OAD recruits, but did they contribute to the culture more than Tarik? I would argue no. This guy came in a wise grad student with an exemplary attitude that settled a young team and did everything Self asked him to. And now after the fact, the floodgates are open for high level transfers. Even if Tarik was a OAD grad student he was a recent exanple that this is what Kansas does for a transfer. Nevermind that it didn’t work out for Mickelson, look at Tarik and Withey before. Bill has clearly polished this sell and I think we owe Tarik a debt for helping Bill knock the dust off it and make it shine.
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I also neglected to mention McClemore and Jamari. Not transfers but partial qualifiers. I don’t mean to get hung up on Tarik as he got to play immediately and I wanted to also continue on @BShark s point that these guys that sit a year and develop and bring it all in practice. Get the old school out of their system, get KUs system figured out off camera. Low pressure confidence building. It couldn’t make more sense. Bill gets to stock up a roster like Coach Cal without managing as many egos at once.
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So as I said before I think Bill is attacking all the neglected vectors. Short, under recruited Towson commit from PBurg. Backup center from Africa that only played 3 years ball in high school. Grad transfer, other transfers, partial qualifiers. We got all these pipelines. It’s a fantastic thing.
And I’ll say one last thing. I think this stuff is happening in tandem with Hudys masterpiece. Her longevity project. Self knows if he can keep the short rotation healthy, which he likes anyway, a short rotation, then all of these things play together. The proof there is in the bionic POY.
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Interesting thread.
Another point: Self probably doesn’t want to have to rely on a team of mostly FR again. By taking high level transfers (maybe literally the top 3 sit and play later transfers on the market this year) he avoids that situation. Likely losing Preston, Doke, Newman after this year. Maybe Vick too. Graham is graduating. It could literally be that the only players that play significant this year and will return is Garrett and Cunliffe (Lightfoot will return but I don’t think he plays big minutes this year). So now instead of having to take a huge class in 18 (baaaad idea) Self can slot in a proven stud in the post (Dedric), an average wing but in his 4th year removed from HS (the other Lawson) and a crafty 4* PG (that had a 38 pt game as a FR) that will be in his 3rd year out of HS (Moore). Quite possible that Moore is better than any actual PG KU could have added in 18 (Grimes if a 2G that wants to play some PG). This lets the staff focus on adding QUALITY in 18 instead of quantity, which is a good spot to be in.
Oh and it’s McLemore.
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I was going to start a thread on Transfers, but I think yours will do. I really don’t have a statement, but more of a question. How does this work with transfers? I mean I believe a coach from another team isn’t allowed to talk to or whoo opposing schools players? Right? Not saying Coach did this. Just wander how this transfer thing works? Are these players calling up Coach saying hey I would like to transfer? Or is there some middle man/agent working the strings?
Again I’m not saying Coach has or is doing anything wrong. Just wander how this Transfer thing works. Does anybody know? I would love to hear it. It just seems KU has been getting some nice quality Transfers over the years. Just wandering how that connection is made?
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@DoubleDD yeah man I wonder the same thing. My thought about being the clean way is if you average a couple transfers a year and you’re a blue blood program like KU, that’s all you need to advertise. The kids will find you.
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@BShark makes perfect sense. Something tells me Preston isn’t going to be an OAD. If he ends up being one it’s likely Bill didn’t get as much out of him as he was hoping by recruiting him. Or maybe regardless of whether Preston contributes at a high level, keeping the OAD pipeline open is important enough.
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@dylans I reread your thread about transfers you covered the McLemore angle there. Guess we are all dreaming bout the same thing. Bill Self 4 Prez!
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They aren’t supposed to until the player announces (then it’s totally fine for any coach to talk to them), but of course, some coaches skirt the rules. We will never know if Self did or not. Self didn’t go to Memphis to visit them until after they announced they would transfer.
I think it’s more a matter of Preston wants to be OAD. So it would take a lot for him to stay.
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Good thread by the way - lots to think on here
… and if you have any extra pain pills …
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So the player announces his intentions to leave is current school, and then he becomes fair game? Ok I get it. I wander why the Espn’s of the world wouldn’t do a better job of reporting who is declaring themselves? They are a sports network after all.
I feel much better about the transfer thing. Thanks for the info.
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@DoubleDD @BShark that’s right. Even so, it’s important that these kids know they have a buyer that is offering the right stuff before declaring a transfer. That’s why it is good for a. Kansas to be a repeat transfer destination and b. have a couple high level destinations also in the transfer business. Like putting a house on the market, you want to do it when you feel the market is strong. And it seems like it is there now so no need to do stuff below board.
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Don’t know if this article has been posted, but I thought a good write-up of Self’s transfer strategy. http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/bill-self-loads-up-on-transfers-to-try-and-get-kansas-deeper-into-the-ncaa-tournament/amp/
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@chriz that list left off Withey. Withey and Young were the first really successful transfers for us.
Looking at that list I can see no downside to the transfer strategy. Those guys were all beloved. It seems more suited to Bill’s team anatomy than going after unproven top shelf kids that we might only get 1 or 2 years out of anyway.
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Collins talked to both Charlie Moore and markese Jacobs
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Since teams with older guys are winning championships nearly every year now, Bill Self is ensuring that we’re going to be playing guys who have 3 years of eligibility and will be well into their twenties by the time they leave.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Nice!
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I’m thrilled Bill is picking up more transfers. I am kind of shocked we will have 3 transfer redshirts next year but I’m okay with that.
Problem is… quality players want to get PT. If we load our team with too much depth, we end up wasting it, guys get rusty, attitudes go south… etc.
The transfers keep our practice sessions highly competitive, while they learn the system without losing a year of eligibility. Often, I would rather have the extra depth spent on a transfer learning Self-ball over having a guy sit on the bench all year, wasting away.
Look at Newman. Let’s say he is gone to the NBA after this coming season. Compare that to a OAD. At least we got a year of his contributions in practice AND he got a year to learn Self-ball so his one year can be more effective.
I’d really like to see us pick up more grad transfers. That’s a lot of college ball experience we get for free. And the guys are more like men instead of boys.
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@drgnslayr plus (and correct me if I’m wrong @jaybate-2-0) building classes transfer-first seems to lessen the shoeco affect of recruiting , a year removed from the AAU Shoeco complex.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
Collins talked to both Charlie Moore and markese Jacobs
Yeah even before Markese committed to KU, he worked with Sherron. It’s no surprise that Markese loves KU.
ESPN do good reporting? What?
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@DoubleDD They actually keep a list of transfers and where they are going.
