Wiggins 41 points and 2 Assists and Other Take Aways
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I’m not bagging on Andrew and I applaud his 40+ point game. It was everyone else stinking that created the loss. Andrew put out lots of energy to score that much. He worked hard for his points.
It is a good thing that he can have a game like this. Imagine if he did this and had some help from teammates?
I’m sure Andrew would rather have 5 points and a win. His teammates should have lifted up to his level of play. They should have been encouraged by what he was doing. Typically, teams just have one big scorer… so other guys just play a role and they watch their star score. We have plenty of big scorers and they should have taken part in the scoring frenzy.
Everything I blame is on our PG play. Someone has to orchestrate. We didn’t run a real offense and this is what we get. We are lucky it was this close. Very lucky.
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No one’s bagging on Andrew. Period. This is a case of collective hysteria.
That being said, the most dumbfounding thing was how KU ran an offense beautifully against lowly TTech, but not against WVU.
Really, I don’t see a practical, logical reason for not being able to run the offense that KU tries to run against WVU. WVU is a good young team that is coming on late in the season. You would not expect offensive efficiency to stay as high against WVU as TTech, but there is no reason why you couldn’t run the offense against WVU…unless you were told not to. Very puzzling.
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I wish Wiggins would have dished to Black who was unguarded and running along side on his right while he was driving toward the basket and got fouled. And I also wish he’d have dished forward to the wide open Selden instead of having his highlight dunk.
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@jaybate 1.0
Ah Jaybate, you can’t stand it when other members calls your BS…well…BS.
Go read your original post a the top of the thread and you will see (although I doubt it) that the entire section on Wiggins is predicated on having had only two assists. Never mind that Wiggins job is to score, rebound and get to the line and NOT produce assists…but then what do we know, if Jaybate says so then It must be so.
I could write more, but I am not willing to waste my time or that of the other posters, and you still would not get it.
“An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows.”
Dwight D. Eisenhower
You fit that definition to a tee. I see a three part, 5,000 word response coming up, but thanks to the good folks at Logitech, I have a mouse with a turbo scrolling wheel that allows me to bypass the long winded post with ease, much like many Forum member do. No doubt that with you on the board we get plenty of practice.
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@JayHawkFanToo If Wiggins were a volume shooter, no one would expect many assists, but he is a volume driver. When you drive, shouldn’t assists be an option? Other posters have said this, not just jaybate.
Anyway, assists are just the tip of the iceberg. Wiggins can turn it on and be a man among boys, but he can’t become a leader at the drop of a hat. Unlike Danny as a senior, we can’t expect Andrew to turn his teammates into Miracles.
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When you drive, shouldn’t assists be an option?
@ParisHawk If not assists, then turnovers…
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So, what I’m hearing in this thread is that everyone’s happy with the way things are going for us right now ?
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@nuleafjhawk you mean because it’s not football season? Seriously, do we really want these kids to mess up their health and lose their athleticism just so we can agonize a week longer? The word is “play”, people. Coach Self needs to stop channeling his internal football coach, sit guys who are hurt and figure out how to stop hurting them. Don’t tell me it’s just games causing those quilts.
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I agree with you 100% but the WVU game was no the way he normally plays. This was a special situation when no one else was doing much scoring and he had the hot hand. Under similar conditions who would prefer takes the shot; the guy with hot hand shooting 66% or the rest of teams shooting 36%? I am not saying that the he should do this all the time, and he doe not, but in this particular game it was the right strategy and almost brought KU back from a 26 point deficit. He obviously had instructions from Coach Self to do just that, and just because he only had 2 assist weighed against 41 points does not mean he did not make the other players or the team better, wouldn’t you agree?
In any case, I think this topic has been beaten to death and there are obvious diverging opinions. I guess we just respectfully agree to disagree.
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More pure unadulterated JayhawkFanToo.
I actually enjoy watching you calling something BS and then having to resort to straw arguments, because reason and facts are contradicting your inner world.
Do carry on.
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@jaybate 1.0
Keep it up Jaybate.
You forget that most if not all of us are adult, college graduates, many of us with graduate and post graduate degrees to booth and can see right through you condescending, patronizing BS and just ignore it.
Sometimes you can be amusing with your war stories but more often than not you talk down to others and seem to have an urge to show how smart you are (or aren’t) and how much (or little) you know. The rest of us just want to unwind some and talk sports.
Obviously other posters are smarter and heed the old adage:
“Don’t argue with someone that buys ink by the barrel”
Which in the digital era translates to:
“Don’t argue with someone with a keyboard, the anonymity of a forum and all the time in the world to produce page after page of non-sense.”
When the KC Start Sports Forum (much like the LJW,) changed format and imploded, and at the suggestion of colleagues I joined the LJW Forum and was promptly warned by several posters to not argue with Jaybate. One of the more colorful description said…after you publicly smack him down, he will be like chihuahua in heat and continue humping your leg, until you get tired and ignore him and then he will claim victory. Dang if he was not correct. In retrospect, I should have heeded his advice as my leg feels clammy from all your digital humping.
I participate in 3 other technical forums that are pretty focused and another business owner’s forum that I help moderate and can get pretty contentious, luckily in that one we can quickly shut down any discussion that gets too adversarial, plus we have a feature that allows a member to place another one in an “ignore list” and post from the “ignored” member are no longer displayed. I only wish this Forum would have that feature.
I regularly interact with many other forums members and when we don’t see eye to eye on issue,w we simply agree to respectfully disagree. With you, its your way or the highway and you always have to have the last word. I though you had indicated after the Adidas thread, that you would not address any post to me any more; I guess you just can’s stay away.
By the way, at a recent Chamber of Commerce event in the Kansas City area, the Adidas subject came up in conversation, actually an acquaintance of mine that had read the thread brought it up while we were taking about international trade. After several guests including the CEO of one the larger companies in town read the threads on their cell phones, everybody had a laugh at your expense…thanks Jaybate, you made me look like even smarter.
If you want to continue debating let’s not do it from behind the curtain of anonymity, we can both provide our credentials, including names and jobs, and let the other forum members see for themselves who we are; I am willing to post a link to my company’s web site where you can see my professional bio.
Until then you can have all the last words you want. I am done with you.
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@jaybate 1.0 Why are our opinions “straw arguments” while yours seem to be factual?
What proof do you have that anything you say is correct> YOIu have no facts to base your opinions off of, or at least you have shown no proof of facts.
That’s what message boards are for, for people to express their opinions and yes we can disagree, but to call out someones opinions without facts to back it up that theirs are false and yours are right are ridiculous.
What proof do you have that Self didn’t care about the WV game?
What proof do you have that Wiggins played outside of the offense?
What proof do you have that Self pulled Tharpe so Wiggins could be showcased for the NBA?
What proof do you have that anything yoiu said is factual and my statements are all false?
Sure you can throw up numbers, most accountants will tell you that you can make numbers say whatever you want them to. So do better than just throwing numbers up there. Also try not to quote 36 different famous people in history, try using your own words, but don’t let that go to your head and use your over verbaged rhetoric to try and hide the fact you are stalling. Use actual facts that can be backed up, unlike saying that Huggins got 10K for beating KU and Self when it is widely been known and publicized it was 25K. You tell others not to use wikipedia as a source, and I agree, but what source are you using?
Don’t act like a sports talk radio guy and when you start losing an argument hang up on them so they can’t keep winning and then you have the air all to yourself so you can call it a win. That’s what Jim Rome and Collin Cowheard do, and why? Do they not have a good argument or are they so full of themselves they can never admit when they are wrong or have lost?
I used my opinions to state my feelings, never claiming anything but that they were opinions. I took my side you had yours. But you couldn’t let it happen that I stepped on your toes, so you had to call out my arguments as straw, like they were completely false and that you are the only one with any knowledge of the game. Unless you are in the locker room, at practice or in the huddles at timeouts or are related to someone that is, then you do not know, you do not have the facts to your arguments either. They are just your opinions and that’s ok, just don’t try to pass them off as facts why everyone else’s are not legit opinions.
Thanks
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I still feel like Andrew should have dished a few more assists.
Nice back fill.
Next.
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@jaybate 1.0 As it was stated above and then I re-stated it assist are a two man game. He can make the pass but if others are throwing up bricks, or missing dunks or turning it over then he can’t get any.
Nice back fill uh? I ask for facts and you go with that line with no other argument? Why is that? No proof?
Next? Is that your back up line to “straw arguments”?
Just take your keyboard and go home then you if you don’t want to play.
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As I use the term, a straw argument posits a position in a discourse to another person that that person did not posit and/or something that is obviously not indicative of his stated thinking, then says that the person is incorrect for positing what he did not posit, nor would posit; this is sometimes done to discredit someone’s POV. Some times it occurs out of honest misunderstanding, but is also sometimes occurs out of disingenuousness.
“They are just your opinions and that’s ok, just don’t try to pass them off as facts why everyone else’s are not legit opinions.”–JRyman
Frankly, I openly “pass” my stuff off as speculations, hypothesizing and opining, not as facts, not as the whole truth. Facts sometimes trigger me to speculate, hypothesize and opine. So: no, i don’t pass my speculations, hypotheses and opining off as facts. Nor do I pass them off as the whole truth, as truth beyond a reasonable doubt, etc. They are my speculations, hypotheses, and opining about things. Not sure why you think that I have to supply “proof” of what I am speculating, hypothesizing and opining beyond what facts and logics I have provided. You are welcome to reject my speculating, hypothesizing and opining based on insufficient proof and/or logical flaws you find, and you don’t even have to explain why. But then I am welcome to reject your response, too. That is the nature of discourse about speculation, hypothesis and opinion, is it not?
Also, let me call your attention to one more thing: If this circumstance were already proven, what would be the point of speculating, hypothesizing and opining about it? Further, I don’t recall ever saying everyone’s opinions were not “legit.” Hmmm. that is kind of a large leap, don’t you thing?
So, I lean toward characterizing this closing assertion of yours as a kind of straw argument.
Penultimately, I found enough of the rest of your premise, assumptions, and reasoning either sufficiently difficult for me to follow that I decided it was beyond my ability and time to unsnag them meaningfully and so respond meaningfully beyond what I have already posted.
But, ultimately, by gosh, I defend your right to post.
In post script, if you reject my speculations, hypotheses and opining for insufficient proof, that’s fine, but please try not mischaracterize what I actually do.
Thanks back to you.
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Penultimately, I found enough of the rest of your premise, assumptions, and reasoning either sufficiently difficult for me to follow that I decided it was beyond my ability and time to unsnag them meaningfully and so respond meaningfully beyond what I have already posted
@jaybate 1.0 Really you find my post hard to follow? Really? Beause, well your long winded over usage of non necessary words, that stray from your main point of your post that ramble on longer than most novels are easy to follow??? Really?
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There you go again. I didn’t say mine were easy. I said I couldn’t follow your logic.
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@jaybate 1.0 Dido
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@jaybate 1.0
Keep it up jaybate 1.0. I am going to backfill you like these other aliases should be doing. Your posts are bs, jaybate. What proof do you have of anything? Why your posts are long winded and you pass everything you write off as fact, and persons I know say you are argumentative and your feet smell bad, too. And, and, and you’re long winded, novel-like posts, someone needs to tell you are being laughed at in recent meetings of The Quasi-Limited Freemasons and The Walruses, The Sons of Katy Elder and Simulacra’r’Us. Yeah, remember I’m backfilling you, too, jaybate 1.0. But I’m giving you the last word, so when you respond, I can backfill you again. Really? Really? Really?
Bad regards, jaybate 1.0 Prime
(Note: all fiction. No malice.)
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@jaybate 1.0
Dido.
I’m backfilling you again.
Jaybate 1.0 prime
(Note: all fiction. no malice.)
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cough cough ah ummmm
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Backfillin’.
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Pipe down Francis! And you, too Francis!
Would this discussion have materialized if:
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Wiggs had four assists?
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We had won?
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Gore had won Florida?
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If D.O.G. spelled cat?
RCJHGKU!
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@VailHawk if my aunt Mary had testicles we’d call her uncle Larry.
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@JRyman LOL. Funniest post of the month!
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Boy O Boy, I have revisited this thread every 12 hours just to vacuum the verbiage! Dwight D. Ike and Aunt Mary’s testicles! Whoa-Ho! I hope that one of Wiggins’ family members copies and preserves these fine notes to present for their multimilliondollar son’s amusement, as he nears retirement sometime around his 38th birthday. Jayhawk fandom at its rabid very best!
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Reality principle, Francis, always the reality principle.
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But Wigs did only have 2 assists and made no one better. [Self will make sure Wigs does make someone better now, because Wigs will listen now.]
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KU lost.
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Bushistas reputedly DID steal Florida and Gore reputedly did sell out for a sweet deal on a pollution biz for going in the tank on the recount and letting the US Supreme Court seal it.
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I actually met someone that named his cat DOG!
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And if King Larry gets castrated by a hostile axis of private oligarchy, another axis of oligarchy out of power secretly calls him Queen Mary!!!
Yeeeeeee Hawwwwwww!
I had to work like hell at getting some blood boiling around here, but it looks like it finally worked.
Things were getting too passive around here.
I found the right stick to poke the dogs with.
Yeeeeeee Hawwwwwwww!
41 points and 2 assists.
Never again!!
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I had met a guy who named his dog D-O-G pronounced deohgie but it sure looked a lot like DOG when he wrote it out.
My wifes boss named his Taxi.
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@jaybate 1.0
“No one’s bagging on Andrew. Period. This is a case of collective hysteria.”
And I thought I was the only hysterical one in here! I’m serious! I’ve been reading along and thinking everyone in here has it together, and I’m frantically posting out of the bleachers.
Well… I can’t wish harm to anyone, but if others are hysterical, then welcome aboard the “frenzy train!”
The train will depart any minute now… it’s tip-off time!
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EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK
We had to get geeked for this game.
Without Joel, fan factor now takes on additional importance.
Forgive me if I bent some noses, but it was essential to get this lighter than air ship waaaaaaaaay high.
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You’ve been had, Ryman.
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Can I have a window seat?
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Howling!!!
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I think WE ALL talk too damn much-As Mom used to say, “Just praise the Lord & pass the ammunition !!” And lighten this shizz up & let some of it go. Is really not necessary to be either a peckerwood or an antagonist. Just sayin.
After all, we’re all supposed to be on the same flippin side !!
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@globaljaybird
That’s what I’m doin’, GJ, that is what I’mma doin’.
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@jaybate 1.0 copy & paste, it’s damn near game time.
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@globaljaybird
“Just praise the Lord & pass the ammunition !!”
Priceless!
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@drgnslayr-Gotta share this slayr. Mom’s Granddad lost a leg fighting for the Massachusett Infantry at the Battle of Fredericksburg during the Civil War, at 17 yrs old. He was born at sea in 1844 on an immigration sail from Ireland. Married an Irish girl from Dublin after getting out of a VA hosp about 1865 in Jersey, then they migrated to the Southwest corner of Iowa a couple of years later. Had 13 kids, was a dirt farmer & weaver, & lived well into his 80’s. Is buried with his wife & some of their children on the family homestead/farm outside of Wayland Mo. Mother said hardly a day went by as a small girl she didn’t hear him use that saying.
Yes, “The Roots of my Raisin’ Run Deep.”…Merle Haggard
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@globaljaybird
I love to hear stories like yours. Amazing stories about people’s history and how they ended up in America.
So do you have your 'tatoes ready to plant? Saint Paddy is right around the corner!
Yess… Paddy is the right word!
I’m part Welsh. No… I didn’t cheat on paying a gambling debt… just some drops of Cymry blood left behind by my taffer gdad for lineage that didn’t fall out on the stones from a heated conversation!
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@drgnslayr-Still a little wet to get in the spuds, but I got about 100 onions in earlier in the week.
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@globaljaybird
I’ve got my 'tatoes sprouting in my kitchen right now… waiting to go in next week.
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@globaljaybird
And I forgot in haste to add: I try never to be a peckerwood, or an antagonist, and neither do you. Its not who we are.
Oh and they praised the lord and they passed the ammo, GJ, and they played like a team and they won like a team.
Just beautiful.
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@jaybate 1.0 …And from back in the corner, can I get an Amen?
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@globaljaybird I said a bunch of amens!
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@Crimsonorblue22-It never hurts.
