Trouble?
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focojayhawk said:
I think we’re all missing the larger positive here. The moral fiber of today’s high level D-1 basketball player has never been higher. Here we have Kansas offering them bags of cash as well as homes/jobs for their parents and yet instead they’re taking the high ground and choosing to go to Duke/Kentucky/Memphis for free. The future is truly bright.
PHOF? This has my vote.
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Gassnola is from Springfield Mass. The good Dr. must be rolling in his grave.
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So same thing, nothing new, except fb. Hmmm we can fight this.
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The only way LOIC can stick is with the football violations. I think it gets dropped on appeal. Long is assembling a UNC type group to fight this thing, and will to the bitter end.
I do think we should self-impose penalties: vacate all wins Billy played in and a postseason ban in football this year.
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@FarmerJayhawk Now that’s good stuff. Haha
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focojayhawk said:
I think we’re all missing the larger positive here. The moral fiber of today’s high level D-1 basketball player has never been higher. Here we have Kansas offering them bags of cash as well as homes/jobs for their parents and yet instead they’re taking the high ground and choosing to go to Duke/Kentucky/Memphis for free. The future is truly bright.
You forgot to mention that Duke’s in-house investigation backs up your optimistic opinion!
I wonder what the penalty would be if this Duke dream was proven wrong and they clearly conspired to cover it up?
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FarmerJayhawk said:
The only way LOIC can stick is with the football violations. I think it gets dropped on appeal. Long is assembling a UNC type group to fight this thing, and will to the bitter end.
The best thing to do is fight it. Give in and you end up like Missouri.
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Mike Vernon posted this screencap of a post from Friday I think off the Slant
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BShark said:
FarmerJayhawk said:
The only way LOIC can stick is with the football violations. I think it gets dropped on appeal. Long is assembling a UNC type group to fight this thing, and will to the bitter end.
The best thing to do is fight it. Give in and you end up like Missouri.
The AD is loaded for bear. This won’t be quick or painless for the jagoffs in Indy.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
So same thing, nothing new, except fb. Hmmm we can fight this.
Well, I think there is. Lack of institutional control. Lack of coach control.
A lack of institutional control is found when the Committee on Infractions determines that major violations occurred and the institution failed to display:
– Adequate compliance measures.
– Appropriate education on those compliance measures.
– Sufficient monitoring to ensure the compliance measures are followed.
– Swift action upon learning of a violation.
Here is the full article -
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FarmerJayhawk said:
BShark said:
FarmerJayhawk said:
The only way LOIC can stick is with the football violations. I think it gets dropped on appeal. Long is assembling a UNC type group to fight this thing, and will to the bitter end.
The best thing to do is fight it. Give in and you end up like Missouri.
The AD is loaded for bear. This won’t be quick or painless for the jagoffs in Indy.
Full scale war if needed I say.
Now we all know why recruiting has been shit though. Oddly enough I’m kind of intrigued to see Bill with a ragtag squad.
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I would sue the NCAA, Dook and UK continue to not be investigated while pulling consistently better classes.
KU is paying guys in the 40s while the guys in the top 10 are playing for free lol. The NCAA is Nike’s pawn, switch back to nike, it all goes away.
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BShark said:
FarmerJayhawk said:
BShark said:
FarmerJayhawk said:
The only way LOIC can stick is with the football violations. I think it gets dropped on appeal. Long is assembling a UNC type group to fight this thing, and will to the bitter end.
The best thing to do is fight it. Give in and you end up like Missouri.
The AD is loaded for bear. This won’t be quick or painless for the jagoffs in Indy.
Full scale war if needed I say.
Now we all know why recruiting has been shit though. Oddly enough I’m kind of intrigued to see Bill with a ragtag squad.
It certainly will be.
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kjayhawks said:
I’ll say this much, I’ll be done with college athletics if the NCAA comes down hard on us and some the other Adidas schools while not batting an eye at the Nike schools. We all know Zion got paid and most of UKs recruits aswell.
I have connected with several ex-players and they all say the same thing… supporting part of my disdain for Nike. Let’s see what happens. Give the world time to build the case against Nike. I feel certain it will come and when it does it will make the Adidas situation look like the reality it is… small potatoes!
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Yikes - “The committee on infractions has shown in the past that it’s very reticent to punish some schools. We’ll have to wait and see. If they’re doing their job, Kansas should be absolutely eviscerated.” -David Ridpath, president of the Drake Group, a think tank dedicated to protecting academic integrity in college sports, and an associate professor of sports business at Ohio University
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Integrity…LOL
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Unless the NCAA knows something the DOJ and FBI couldn’t discover, I’m not holding my breath on any of these threats.
We are not living in the “good ol’ days.” The NCAA would love to just smash schools and prove they are in control. Realistically, that isn’t as possible today because schools are realizing they can fight back and use the justice system outside of the NCAA world.
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@drgnslayr The actual threat is f’d up recruiting for years to come with not outcome in sight.
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Enter the inner stupidMichael in all of us.
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I don’t know… schools like Arizona do fine with the mess they are in. And I’m feeling fine if we stop going after these pipe dream players that rarely produce anything for us except build our egos that we can win top notch talent. Look at teams like Nova. Don’t you think we can even do a better job at winning over Nova? We live in the Midwest… where life moves a bit slower and people are used to the idea that hard work pays off.
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Oddly enough I’m kind of intrigued to see Bill with a ragtag squad.
I agree. I’ve never been that interested in recruiting drama. I get that talent is important, but without time to develop, expectations are rarely met. That’s just disappointment. Let’s see how Bill can do with a bunch of 4-year players without the NBA distractions. I like the silver lining.
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Kansas has put out a statement to what the NCAA has said
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BShark said:
Now we all know why recruiting has been shit though. Oddly enough I’m kind of intrigued to see Bill with a ragtag squad.
Took Tusla to the Elite 8 with basically that.
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Self isn’t messing around. Same firm that represented Silvio. https://twitter.com/goodmanhoops/status/1176292114528985088?s=21
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@FarmerJayhawk The comments on here are not promising. With that said I’m sure most of them just hate KU for being KU.
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HighEliteMajor said:
That’s certainly a strong response.
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Also I’ve been going over what I can find of the NOA…
This shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone but it did confirm Larry Brown basically gift wrapped Silvio to KU (doesn’t take a big leap to guess he gift wrapped Bruno to Maryland).
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A quote from Selfs response -
“By the NCAA’s own admission through its public statements early this summer, it’s no secret that there is tremendous pressure on the NCAA to respond to the federal court proceedings involving college basketball … ”
Amen. To paraphrase a line from the movie “A Few Good Men”, they were “bullied into the courtroom. “
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@Bosthawk love that!
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They didnt even show up to the court room fyi. Still a good quote
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I was pleased with Self’s statement. And while all of it could be true it won’t matter. Lawyers and evidence may reduce the penalties but there is very little chance the KU program leaves this battle without penalties.
Not playing Preston doesn’t matter. Sitting De Sousa for a year doesn’t matter. Preston was paid behind KU’s back. De Sousa’s Guardian was paid. In the NCAA’s eyes that’s all the smoking gun they need.
I’m hopeful that KU will fight this to the bitter end as it looks like they are prepared to do.
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For those that want to read the NOA and haven’t seen it. Here is a link. Apologies if already posted
https://publicaffairs.ku.edu/sites/publicaffairs.ku.edu/files/docs/NOA to KU.pdf
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@BeddieKU23 Of course there are going to be penalties, but it is not going to be nearly as severe as people are freaking out about. I am guessing it will be a loss in recruiting time / a reduction in scholarships for a couple years, and Self gets 5-10 game suspension. Also, they will be put on probation.
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Woodrow said:
@BeddieKU23 Of course there are going to be penalties, but it is not going to be nearly as severe as people are freaking out about. I am guessing it will be a loss in recruiting time / a reduction in scholarships for a couple years, and Self gets 5-10 game suspension. Also, they will be put on probation.
I’ll let this play out but I believe the penalties could be more significant in the end. I would be surprised at minimal penalties for both the Program and Self/Townsend. T very well could lose his job
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@Woodrow What would lead you to conclude we will get what amounts to a slap on the wrist?
We should all look at paragraph 5.b. Three athletic department administrators identified red flags/concerns with Gassnola, but the athletic department took no action.
We were led to believe that the vehicle issue with Preston was a big surprise. Not so much. Staff knew he had the vehicle but it was not registered with the athletic department compliance. Paragraph 5.d.
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Didn’t Ollie get a show cause penalty and is banned for 3+ years? This could be the end for Self. This could also be just the end of recruiting for a couple years while KU fights the charges. No recourse if you win either, those recruits aren’t coming back.
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@HighEliteMajor Because the NCAA has over reached here. They are trying to make a statement and example out of Self and KU, and in the long run that is not going to work out for them. I have heard multiple national writers who cover college basketball state that they will not be surprised at all if this ends up in federal court with KU suing the NCAA.
Fans / people over react all the time when seeing things like this. It is not all doom and gloom even though half the fan base thinks it is.
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@Woodrow I guess I’m not seeing overreaching by the NCAA. If this were Duke and Nike, I’d think the allegations were reasonable based on what we know. I don’t like what I see and I see it as grossly unfair given what we assume other big schools are doing in concert with their shoeco reps. But I’ve yet to see even a whisper of proof on others.
So what is overreaching in your opinion? Or to everyone else, what does anyone else see as overreaching here?
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@HighEliteMajor whisper https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2019/08/zion-nike-payment-35000-michael-avenatti-alleged-duke-basketball-pelicans-krzyzewski
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The trouble the NCAA has is that KU never played Preston, sat De Sousa, and Williamson went to a different school. Unless investigations and allegations are coming for other major programs, the NCAA is in a bind. How do you punish KU without investigating Duke? How do you punish KU and Duke without hurting college basketball overall?
The NCAA is dragging itself closer and closer to the abyss, but can’t decide if it will throw itself or its premier programs over the edge, not realizing that they are all handcuffed together anyway.
The only solution is to back away from the abyss. Clearly, that’s not the NCAA’s plan, so everyone will plummet to doom.
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This sort of feels like a last stand for the NCAA.
Who takes them seriously anymore?
California, under threat that their schools could be banned from post-season play, all but unanimously passed their law that allows players to take money and not lose their scholarship. 20+ more states in the process of drafting a similar bill now.
The NBAPA agents all refused to follow the NCAAs rules for agents.
Will Wade literally talked about how much he paid for a player on the phone. Wade was reinstated and that player played the rest of the season.
Sean Miller has an assistant convicted in the scheme. There is as much evidence against him as anyone, somehow not fired.
Duke conducted an internal investigation, when we all know what got Bagley to North Carolina. We have evidence of Zion being offered by several schools. But they found nothing…
Miami paid Nassir Little. Jim Larrañaga still the coach. And Little played all season at UNC.
Avenatti is singing like a bird with a former AAU coach from California. Says Bol Bol went to Oregon for cash with documentation. Says Ayton went to Arizona for cash with documentation. Says Bagley went to Duke for cash with documentation. Not a peep from those schools.
Wendell Carter Jr. a player for Duke - Parents went to lunch with an agent. That agent, alone, somehow wracked up a $100+ tab on his own. Carter’s parents didn’t even eat… Must have been a hell of a steak.
KU landed two guys who were paid, and went for a third. And we’re denying the hell out of it being our responsibility.
Maryland paid De Sousa and not a word has been spoken about Turgeon in the national media. Much less Maryland coming out and making an official statement.
Collin Sexton only got a 4 game suspension and Avery Johnson finished the season.
Personally, I think KU will and should fight this to the death. I think they SHOULD take it to court. And, on top of the obviously circumstantial evidence presented in the NOA, my argument would be that the NCAA is unable to fairly and broadly enforce the rules and is unable to monitor their member institutions. There were 30+ programs named at the trials. Unless all of them were investigated with the same thoroughness as KU was, they are unable to fairly apply the rules across the board. The NCAA themselves, lack institutional control. I’d argue that they should have known that Apparel sponsors were offering impermissible benefits as much as KU should have known. I’d argue that the NCAA didn’t take control of recruiting until 2018, when they set up rules for AAU events. I’d argue that the commission they put together themselves realized how widespread this was, and that it’s a failure of duty on their part that it took this long to investigate. If they were unwilling to investigate the underbelly of College Basketball until recently, how on Earth is one single member institution supposed to combat it?
The issue is widespread, and that is largely due to the fact that the NCAA has been unwilling to use their resources, which consist of a billion dollars of revenue, to combat impermissible benefits from 3rd parties and protect the “NCAA Collegiate Model.” If they are unwilling to do it, why should KU be? If they cared, there would be 30+ schools under investigation right now. There would be an official NCAA employee working in the compliance department at every single NCAA institution in the country. But there isn’t. Because the NCAA arbitrarily applies the rules when they feel like applying the rules. And they do that after taking no steps to prevent rules from being broken.
I’d love to see the NCAA rules enforcement process get audited by a major accounting firm. They have no controls and no prevention process. They, as the parent company over 300+ institutions, knew that those institutions were essentially “under attack” and prone to corruption with a 3rd party. Yet, their “prevention process” is to simply ask that people who have millions of dollars at stake turn themselves in. And institutions who have tens of millions of dollars at stake to also turn themselves in. It may be the right thing to do. And acting with integrity should be expected from us fans. But the NCAA has a duty to it’s other member institutions to enforce the rules and put in processes that create as even of a playing field as possible. Yet, they don’t, haven’t and won’t.
The NCAA created this issue when they allowed 3rd party money to infiltrate college athletics. And it’s the NCAA’s fault they did nothing to prevent the wide-spread corruption since. They can’t all of a sudden decide they don’t like it when they are the ones who created it…
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@Kcmatt7 That’s an awesome post … of PHOF dimensions. Great read.
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Well done, Well Done. You win the internet for today
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@Kcmatt7 Very well said. Feel like this sums up the way I feel about the whole mess as well.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@Woodrow What would lead you to conclude we will get what amounts to a slap on the wrist?
We should all look at paragraph 5.b. Three athletic department administrators identified red flags/concerns with Gassnola, but the athletic department took no action.
We were led to believe that the vehicle issue with Preston was a big surprise. Not so much. Staff knew he had the vehicle but it was not registered with the athletic department compliance. Paragraph 5.d.
Dam good points HighElite , I couldn’t agree more. - - You and Beddie make very solid points , theories. - -I’m afraid there are some that just refuse to realize the possibilities of sanctions/penalties .
I mean I know what I have to say here probably won’t make some people here to happy , Some may think I’m full of S - - - - -it’s ok I understand their frustration - - Hell I’m frustrated. We were already frustrated with recruiting , now we know why it sucked
People will or have said well - -if we get hammered by the NCAA then by GOD - - Duke , – North Carolina , - -Arizona , - -Louisville and others better get hammered to - ain’t right. - - Thing is - - I get that m I understand how others feel and think - -I’ve been right there with them - -it sucks
Yet at the end of the day = - - - I don’t give a flying rat’s ass about Duke - - North Carolina – Arizona’s - - The Louisville of the world all I care about is KU the others can go screw themselves -doesn’t effect me about their programs - -The program that effects me is KU
It’s going to be interesting if Coach Self get’s suspended for the year - - -some here don’t seem to think there is no way in hell that will happen - - well as the old Game Day guy says - - Not so Fast my friends - -don’t ever say ever - - again we are dealing with this BS NCAA here. -I think there is a very good chance we vacate wins - get stripped of our final four - - -and possibly even banned from the tourney for a year -it’s ok if you don’t agree - - all I’m saying there is that possibility.
Like High Elite says there were 3 AD Admins here that got ignored - -we are talking multiple level 1 infractions - - The NCAA is looking for a whipping boy - -who better then Ol KU
I tell ya I’m so bummed out with this crap -I’m so afraid that after this year we are going on a free fall for a couple of years -it’s gonna get uglier before it gets better -IF Coach doesn’t get suspended then we are REALLY gonna see his HOF abilities - but at the end of the day – I’ve always been a Jayhawk - - Always will be a Jayhawk - -through and through - -difference between bandwagon fans - -and TRUE FANS - -true fans stick it out - -good times - -AND bad times - -and as always ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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The sooner there is a resolution, even a poor one, the sooner things get back to normal. As long as the ncaa is investigating forget about getting anything consistent in recruiting.
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Self basically said “Everyone does it” in text.
Self responded: “That’s how ur (sic) works. At unc and Duke”
That defense never works.
