@Kcmatt7 I think the reference to recruiting area is clearly relevant. But that’s no different than if we are recruiting top guys, or 100+. We have a proximity issue.
This is true. But, it is also relevant for consistently building a team based around 4 year guys. Of the top 100, 50 guys ended up at a local/regional school. (Basically I counted anything less than a 5 hour drive). 28 of those ranked 100-150 went close to home.
That essentially eliminates half of the pool. If I were to limit it a bit further, like anything NE and stayed NE. Or SE and stayed SE, that number gets significantly smaller. 95/150 players stayed regionally based. So, really, we are down to 50-60 players willing to travel away from home each year.
When you look west and south, though, kids are having to fly to most preferred destinations.
But not for one minute should any of us think that any excuse is relevant for KU. We’re a top 5 program. So the excuses are irrelevant. I find the excuses laughable actually. I understand the factual nature of the data, I just find it’s applicability to top 5 program, a blue blood like KU, pretty much irrelevant.
So if any argument is irrelevant, what is the point of even having this discussion. You won’t even open your mind up a little bit. Here is the thing, it is all relevant. It is. All of it.
If Kansas focused on the non-OAD through - 80ish, made the commitment to avoid the presumed OAD, that would have to be attractive to a recruit in that range or higher. Logical. Why? Just look at Andrew White as an example. If I’m recruiting against KU, I say look at Andrew White. Self brings him in, then snags Wiggins and White is marginalized. White’s college career was then chaos. He got run out of Kansas. Self won’t commit to you.
You are remembering it wrong. AWIII was ran out of here by B-Green. Who Self picked over him. Wiggins was not the problem Green played, and would have played, over him.
He chases the OAD. So you could be junior and he’ll bring in a top guy just when you need to the PT the most to make it to the NBA. Heck, KU had Frank Mason and Devonte Graham, and Bill Self was working hard to get De’Aaron Fox, and was a finalist until the end. Would he have displaced Mason? How would that have impacted Mason’s NBA prospects?
This is a complete hypothetical. Who knows how it turns out for Frank. And, again, you’re remembering it wrong. Fox was an early commit nobody thought was coming here. Go look at the CB picks. Most picks were coming well before he ever even took a visit.
Or, we can continue to do what Self has done.
I’ll sacrifice making the tourney every so often for more pronounced spikes.
I very much doubt this. I don’t think you would be ok with this. Enduring years of misery, hoping we can put it all together for one year. And, what if we don’t? What if we finally get a group of 7 solid upperclassmen and we shit the bed? We are supposed to be ok with waiting another 4,5 6 years before we put it all together again and have a chance?
And those spikes can be from talent that grows, develops, and stays longer.
It sounds like what you want is to be like Indiana. Because that is what KU would become if we went with your strategy. We are in a talent desert. Chicago and St. Louis are our only regional places producing talent. And there is plenty of competition in those areas between KU and MSU and the dozen other schools that surround those two cities.
You look at this with Crimson and Blue goggles and basically say, there is no reason KU should be able to offer a kid ranked 80, and him jump on the opportunity. That is simply not true. Over half of the players available each given season wouldn’t jump at it.
Once you start playing the ShoeCo games too, that number goes from half, to even less. Kai Jones is a perfect example. A Brewster kid that loved KU. We have it on good authority, KU would have been HIS choice. But Nike and Texas took care of him. And guess where he went? KU would have taken him in a heartbeat. KU Offered him. He did not jump at that opportunity. He took the money.
You also think that “recruiting over” only happens with OAD players. That’s not true either. BG was a better player than AWIII. He was. And AWIII would have left regardless because he was never going to start at KU. And he knew that.
Low ranked Frank Mason kicked Frankamps ass back to Wichita. Frank and Devonte forced out Nadiir too.
It is going to happen regardless. And you’re going to end up with unbalanced classes, especially with the way the transfer market has changed. So, you have a team with Frank, DG, Svi, Vick and LL. A damn good team. You would rather have some no name player than JJ come in and help that team. Where is that team without JJ? A 4 or 5 seed and another early tournament flame out.
Frank DESERVED JJ and at least a shot at winning. We didn’t land anything else before JJ either. And we tried. JJ didn’t hurt a thing. Without him, I’m afraid that team struggles to even make the tournament. He was that good.
Wiggins didn’t hurt a thing. He was an April commit with nobody else coming in. One year and done. And without him we are probably not a tournament team. Again, White left after that season knowing that he was never going to be #1 in the pecking order. He was already behind BG. There was no impact from it. And that team lost double digits with him, they weren’t losing less games without him. Hell, they ended up a 2 seed because of him, really.
Maybe Xavier messed things up for the Sherron SR. year. It’s possible. That team also went 33-3 so I think it’s hard to say that. Xavier shot .418 from 3 and was efficient all around. 1.5 steals per game is pretty damn good… What happens to that team without a wing who can score it and shoot it that well? Sherron and Cole were already doing about as much as they could.
We saw what happens when you recruit guys that are 100+. You get LLs and Jamari’s. I don’t want Landen’s and Jamari’s. I want us to try to field the best damn team we can year in and year out. Period. Especially because, mathematically speaking, we have to essentially offer every Top 100 player that is an Adidas kid and then see which ones are even open to leaving home and we aren’t already deep at that position.
You also ignore the fact that players want to play and they want to play right away. Nobody likes sitting the bench. What guarantee could we give a player? If you come sit here for two years, you’ll get to play? But only if a guy we bring in next season doesn’t progress faster than you. Or are you suggesting that Bill purposely sit better players? You see, this is the problem with your strategy. There is no guarantee you ever see the court at the University of Kansas. No matter who you are. No matter what strategy we take. We are KU. We get talent. We will play the best talent for our system. That may or may not be you. If you don’t like that someone jumped you, you transfer. All of a sudden, the guy who jumped you went pro. We now have a giant hole. But we have 4 other positions locked down. How do we fill this hole? We have a 80+ ranked guy coming in, but he isn’t ready to play at this level yet…
You make it sound so, so much easier than it is. These aren’t excuses. These are the cold hard facts. And you can ignore them and continue to decry Self for chasing talent, but this is the realistic look at recruiting from the University of Kansas in 2019.