Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19
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@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@FarmerJayhawk said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@FarmerJayhawk said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
This should make all you happy?
It’s an upgrade over the guy that decided not to enhance our testing capability a month ago because low numbers are good politics. https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-trump-high-infection-rate-dent-reelection-report-2020-3
Huh? Nah it couldn’t be that there was a realization that test kits were not cutting the grade, and a update was needed? I’m mean let’s forget the rest of the world was having the same problem. Let’s pay no attention to that evidence.
Hate Trump much?
No, I don’t hate politicians. I just expect basic competence. If the tests were garbage (not clear) he should order the CDC and local labs develop their own. Instead, it took a lab in Seattle developing and publishing results in defiance of the CDC to put this thing out there.
That’s pretty much what he has done. I mean I guess you can be pissed he didn’t do it earlier? What I can’t figure out is why more people aren’t upset with the Chinese government? They are speculating that the Chinese government knew about this virus for months before telling the rest of the world.
Not really. The lab in Seattle had to go rogue to get the warning out because the Trump administration said no, you can’t run that test. And Trump explicitly said we don’t want tests because low numbers is good politics. He blew this a month ago.
The Chinese blew it much, much worse. This isn’t in dispute. A Democratic plot? That’s Sean Hannity tinfoil hat stuff.
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@approxinfinity don’t forget the careless language and inability to read a teleprompter leading to mass confusion in airports, on airplanes, both here, abroad and in between.
The lies about “testing” everyone returning from overseas.
The failure to beef up staffing to handle the influx of people going through customs at DFW, Chicago, and elsewhere forcing hundreds to maybe thousands of people to stand shoulder to shoulder amid a pandemic.
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And just to show this isn’t Democrat vs republican, there are many Republican Governors across the country stepping up, taking advice from scientists and leading the response in their states. The governor of Ohio has done an especially good job maybe the best in the country so far in my opinion.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
A Democratic plot? That’s Sean Hannity tinfoil hat stuff.
Believing this requires something stronger than drinking the kool-aid. Not sure if I have the term for it…
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@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@FarmerJayhawk said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@FarmerJayhawk said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
This should make all you happy?
It’s an upgrade over the guy that decided not to enhance our testing capability a month ago because low numbers are good politics. https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-trump-high-infection-rate-dent-reelection-report-2020-3
Huh? Nah it couldn’t be that there was a realization that test kits were not cutting the grade, and a update was needed? I’m mean let’s forget the rest of the world was having the same problem. Let’s pay no attention to that evidence.
Hate Trump much?
No, I don’t hate politicians. I just expect basic competence. If the tests were garbage (not clear) he should order the CDC and local labs develop their own. Instead, it took a lab in Seattle developing and publishing results in defiance of the CDC to put this thing out there.
That’s pretty much what he has done. I mean I guess you can be pissed he didn’t do it earlier? What I can’t figure out is why more people aren’t upset with the Chinese government? They are speculating that the Chinese government knew about this virus for months before telling the rest of the world.
1: There is evidence that the Chinese government knew about this and squelched the warnings of the medical community there.
2: Unfortunately, there is also evidence that the Trump administration knew about this and downplayed it and disregarded the medical community.
Not sure what conclusion could be drawn by bringing up this fact about the Chinese government’s mishandling other than the conclusion that the US leadership is no better – and possibly worse given that the Chinese didn’t know what they were dealing with and could be skeptical in the absence of data. But the US had 2-3 months of data and evidence from multiple countries about the nature of this outbreak – and STILL – resisted actions.
That’s irresponsible and probably incompetent. Maybe negligent. Maybe maleficient.
If this was the first time this administration had made a mistake, I think we’d give them a mulligan. It’s not.
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“I don’t take any responsibility at all” pretty much sums it up.
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@BShark said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@FarmerJayhawk said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
A Democratic plot? That’s Sean Hannity tinfoil hat stuff.
Believing this requires something stronger than drinking the kool-aid. Not sure if I have the term for it…
You mean like Russian collusion, quid pro quo, or obstructing? Yea no level headed Individual would draw that collusion? That maybe the Dem Party are is trying to undermine a sitting president. Yea no way to draw that collusion.
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@benshawks08 said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
“I don’t take any responsibility at all” pretty much sums it up.
Yea that’s a pretty broad statement. Care to be more specific?
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@bskeet said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@FarmerJayhawk said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@FarmerJayhawk said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
This should make all you happy?
It’s an upgrade over the guy that decided not to enhance our testing capability a month ago because low numbers are good politics. https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-trump-high-infection-rate-dent-reelection-report-2020-3
Huh? Nah it couldn’t be that there was a realization that test kits were not cutting the grade, and a update was needed? I’m mean let’s forget the rest of the world was having the same problem. Let’s pay no attention to that evidence.
Hate Trump much?
No, I don’t hate politicians. I just expect basic competence. If the tests were garbage (not clear) he should order the CDC and local labs develop their own. Instead, it took a lab in Seattle developing and publishing results in defiance of the CDC to put this thing out there.
That’s pretty much what he has done. I mean I guess you can be pissed he didn’t do it earlier? What I can’t figure out is why more people aren’t upset with the Chinese government? They are speculating that the Chinese government knew about this virus for months before telling the rest of the world.
1: There is evidence that the Chinese government knew about this and squelched the warnings of the medical community there.
2: Unfortunately, there is also evidence that the Trump administration knew about this and downplayed it and disregarded the medical community.
Not sure what conclusion could be drawn by bringing up this fact about the Chinese government’s mishandling other than the conclusion that the US leadership is no better – and possibly worse given that the Chinese didn’t know what they were dealing with and could be skeptical in the absence of data. But the US had 2-3 months of data and evidence from multiple countries about the nature of this outbreak – and STILL – resisted actions.
That’s irresponsible and probably incompetent. Maybe negligent. Maybe maleficient.
If this was the first time this administration had made a mistake, I think we’d give them a mulligan. It’s not.
You do know the rest of the world is struggling with this virus also. Right?
Yet somehow this is all the Presidents fault? That is quite a reach.
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@DoubleDD see my list of the President’s failings and @benshawks08 's amendments which I would hope you would not ignore, as they are the facts.
It’s a fair point you made that much of the world is struggling with this. But that doesn’t excuse Trump’s response, which has been mostly weak, counterproductive, self-absorbed, misinformed and confused.
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@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@benshawks08 said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
“I don’t take any responsibility at all” pretty much sums it up.
Yea that’s a pretty broad statement. Care to be more specific?
It’s what donald trump said when asked why he gutted the cdc specifically the pandemic Response team in 2018 and if he took any responsibility for the delay in testing availability in the USA (you know, the country he runs).
More than that it seems to be his general attitude toward any happening that isn’t a great success. Further evidenced by his rating of his own response to this crisis as a “10 out of 10.”
Who needs sports?! We can all just watch mental gymnastics all day long.
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@approxinfinity said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD see my list of the President’s failings and @benshawks08 's amendments which I would hope you would not ignore, as they are the facts.
It’s a fair point you made that much of the world is struggling with this. But that doesn’t excuse Trump’s response, which has been mostly weak, counterproductive, self-absorbed, misinformed and confused.
Could have trump acted sooner? Of course, but remember we are a government of checks and balances. Imagine if Trump tried to close down the borders sooner? Or put in travel bands? The Dem party and the media would have painted him as a racist and so on.
The important thing? Is this task to fight the coronavirus, is on the right course. The manpower, and resources are being put in the right places.
This blaming Trump does no good and accomplishes nothing. Except this will hurt the Dem party at the ballot box. Once again the Dem party is showing all they care about is removing the President.
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@benshawks08 said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@benshawks08 said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
“I don’t take any responsibility at all” pretty much sums it up.
Yea that’s a pretty broad statement. Care to be more specific?
It’s what donald trump said when asked why he gutted the cdc specifically the pandemic Response team in 2018 and if he took any responsibility for the delay in testing availability in the USA (you know, the country he runs).
More than that it seems to be his general attitude toward any happening that isn’t a great success. Further evidenced by his rating of his own response to this crisis as a “10 out of 10.”
Who needs sports?! We can all just watch mental gymnastics all day long.
Absolutely a debate can be had on whether the president should’ve cut this program or another. This doesn’t make a person a bad person, or incompetent. Just means they may have made a bad decision. Name me one President that hasn’t made a bad decision?
However I believe the level hate for Trump is clouding the minds of some persons that would other wise would be quite level headed.
Maybe Trump derangement syndrome is a real thing?
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@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@approxinfinity said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD see my list of the President’s failings and @benshawks08 's amendments which I would hope you would not ignore, as they are the facts.
It’s a fair point you made that much of the world is struggling with this. But that doesn’t excuse Trump’s response, which has been mostly weak, counterproductive, self-absorbed, misinformed and confused.
Could have trump acted sooner? Of course, but remember we are a government of checks and balances. Imagine if Trump tried to close down the borders sooner? Or put in travel bands? The Dem party and the media would have painted him as a racist and so on.
The important thing? Is this task to fight the coronavirus, is on the right course. The manpower, and resources are being put in the right places.
This blaming Trump does no good and accomplishes nothing. Except this will hurt the Dem party at the ballot box. Once again the Dem party is showing all they care about is removing the President.
Everyone was telling the administration to do something when it was obvious this was way worse than they wanted to admit. There’s just no excuses for their failing here. It killed people. It showed Trump, the self professed maker of the best deals, can’t run a popsicle stand without his staff explaining things to him in crayon. He’s proud to not read the information they give him and just go with his gut. No way to run a branch of government.
Neither party is perfect (or even good right now tbh) but Congressional Democrats are at least passing a stimulus package.
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@DoubleDD I totally agree that everyone makes mistakes and that a bad decision doesn’t make someone a bad person most of the time (obviously depending on the severity of the decision). However, for me, failing to admit ANY mistake or failing does make someone a bad person. How can a person learn if unwilling to admit fault or error? I make mistakes all the time. Sometimes those mistakes hurt other people. I expect from my president what I expect from my family, my colleagues, myself, and my students. Admit when your wrong and learn from it. It’s not an easy thing to do but it is always the right thing to do.
I also agree that our focus needs to be looking forward on how to best combat the spread of this virus. But if we go forward blindly without acknowledging where and when mistakes may have been made, we are likely to continue to see a similar pattern of failings in the future. It’s why coaches and players watch game film of their previous games not just their upcoming opponents.
Self reflection is a powerful tool for learning. I sincerely hope our president uses it to be more successful moving forward. (Evidence indicates he won’t)
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Found this surfing. Kind of interesting, if you can handle the elevator music.
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Another good one with first hand accounts for a doc in Seattle.
https://www.gq.com/story/inside-americas-coronavirus-testing-crisis
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Liked both links, however I think I drew a bit different conclusion. It appears to me this is classic big government red tape. Unfortunately with some red tape a sitting president has to go through the Congress to remove such red tape. The president could use executive powers, but sometimes those executive orders can and do wind up in court. As has been the case with so many of the presidents executive orders.
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@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
Liked both links, however I think I drew a bit different conclusion. It appears to me this is classic big government red tape. Unfortunately with some red tape a sitting president has to go through the Congress to remove such red tape. The president could use executive powers, but sometimes those executive orders can and do wind up in court. As has been the case with so many of the presidents executive orders.
Not really. The President has almost unlimited authority to waive executive branch regulations. When EO’s contradict Congressional intent that’s when things get hairy.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
Liked both links, however I think I drew a bit different conclusion. It appears to me this is classic big government red tape. Unfortunately with some red tape a sitting president has to go through the Congress to remove such red tape. The president could use executive powers, but sometimes those executive orders can and do wind up in court. As has been the case with so many of the presidents executive orders.
Not really. The President has almost unlimited authority to waive executive branch regulations. When EO’s contradict Congressional intent that’s when things get hairy.
Not so sure. Meaning a lot of the current presidents executive orders did go to court even though everybody knew he had the right to pass the executive order in the first place. Merely bogging down the process or the presidents agenda.
Find the right judge and you can definitely make it hard for the president to do anything.
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Me personally I just don’t think the CDC was prepared to handle such an outbreak. And that is why the president and his team are changing the CDC to be better prepared in the future. Which I think is a great thing.
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@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@FarmerJayhawk said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
Liked both links, however I think I drew a bit different conclusion. It appears to me this is classic big government red tape. Unfortunately with some red tape a sitting president has to go through the Congress to remove such red tape. The president could use executive powers, but sometimes those executive orders can and do wind up in court. As has been the case with so many of the presidents executive orders.
Not really. The President has almost unlimited authority to waive executive branch regulations. When EO’s contradict Congressional intent that’s when things get hairy.
Not so sure. Meaning a lot of the current presidents executive orders did go to court even though everybody knew he had the right to pass the executive order in the first place. Merely bogging down the process or the presidents agenda.
Find the right judge and you can definitely make it hard for the president to do anything.
It wouldn’t even be an EO in this case. Just HHS changing internal guidance, which happens all the time. Fact is they blew this.
For Trump saying Obama always apologized and made too many excuses, he sure does the same thing.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@FarmerJayhawk said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
Liked both links, however I think I drew a bit different conclusion. It appears to me this is classic big government red tape. Unfortunately with some red tape a sitting president has to go through the Congress to remove such red tape. The president could use executive powers, but sometimes those executive orders can and do wind up in court. As has been the case with so many of the presidents executive orders.
Not really. The President has almost unlimited authority to waive executive branch regulations. When EO’s contradict Congressional intent that’s when things get hairy.
Not so sure. Meaning a lot of the current presidents executive orders did go to court even though everybody knew he had the right to pass the executive order in the first place. Merely bogging down the process or the presidents agenda.
Find the right judge and you can definitely make it hard for the president to do anything.
It wouldn’t even be an EO in this case. Just HHS changing internal guidance, which happens all the time. Fact is they blew this.
For Trump saying Obama always apologized and made too many excuses, he sure does the same thing.
Now we both know you are full of crap. The president doesn’t apologize in less he’s being sarcastic. Lol
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@FarmerJayhawk look I get you and a few others want and need to blame someone. Might as well be the president. Yet reality is The current President has handled the coronavirus better than the previous president did with the H1N1.
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I’m just glad he’s still allowing alcohol purchases.
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@rockchalkwyo said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
I’m just glad he’s still allowing alcohol purchases.
Amen
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@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@FarmerJayhawk said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@FarmerJayhawk said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
Liked both links, however I think I drew a bit different conclusion. It appears to me this is classic big government red tape. Unfortunately with some red tape a sitting president has to go through the Congress to remove such red tape. The president could use executive powers, but sometimes those executive orders can and do wind up in court. As has been the case with so many of the presidents executive orders.
Not really. The President has almost unlimited authority to waive executive branch regulations. When EO’s contradict Congressional intent that’s when things get hairy.
Not so sure. Meaning a lot of the current presidents executive orders did go to court even though everybody knew he had the right to pass the executive order in the first place. Merely bogging down the process or the presidents agenda.
Find the right judge and you can definitely make it hard for the president to do anything.
It wouldn’t even be an EO in this case. Just HHS changing internal guidance, which happens all the time. Fact is they blew this.
For Trump saying Obama always apologized and made too many excuses, he sure does the same thing.
Now we both know you are full of crap. The president doesn’t apologize in less he’s being sarcastic. Lol
Nah, he just makes excuses for everything. Nothing is ever his fault. Always someone else’s. Gets rid of the pandemic unit on the NSC (by his own order) and says he didn’t know anything about it. Now he’s either lying or incompetent.
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@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@FarmerJayhawk look I get you and a few others want and need to blame someone. Might as well be the president. Yet reality is The current President has handled the coronavirus better than the previous president did with the H1N1.
I criticized Obama then. It’s not about D’s and R’s. I could care less. I’m assigning blame where it’s due. Ultimate blame goes with the CCP, but Trump is far from blameless here. Sometimes I think he could be saying the whole thing is a hoax and his supporters would be like “yep, my neighbor died and my mom is sick but it’s just the flu because Trump said China and Nancy Pelosi are making things up to beat him!”
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@rockchalkwyo said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
I’m just glad he’s still allowing alcohol purchases.
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The quarantine in Italy allowed for the capture of 'Ndrangheta mob boss Cesare Antonio Cordi.
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Russia still has COVID-19 contained I guess. Imported cases only. They are the largest country to still have it contained, unless they aren’t testing adequately.
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Could you imagine if we adopt UBI (already being pitched around as Mit Romney’s idea), it works well, and becomes part of the Republican platform? @FarmerJayhawk could this actually happen?
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@approxinfinity loooooooooooool
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I mean have the Republicans (or either party for that matter) ever turned away from an opportunity to hang their hat on something successful? Does it matter one shred what the platform is? Woudl they really stop something if its working well for them?
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@FarmerJayhawk look I get you and a few others want and need to blame someone. Might as well be the president. Yet reality is The current President has handled the coronavirus better than the previous president did with the H1N1.
I criticized Obama then. It’s not about D’s and R’s. I could care less. I’m assigning blame where it’s due. Ultimate blame goes with the CCP, but Trump is far from blameless here. Sometimes I think he could be saying the whole thing is a hoax and his supporters would be like “yep, my neighbor died and my mom is sick but it’s just the flu because Trump said China and Nancy Pelosi are making things up to beat him!”
It’s about perception @FarmerJayhawk. You attack Trump and his voters. Yet it wasn’t trump that ignored the fly over country and rural America. Somehow that was your party and you are calling us Ignorant. Yet why would anybody whether it be race, color, or party affiliation get behind a party that doesn’t care about them? As the Dem party has shown.
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Kansas schools closed for the rest of the school year. Distance learning plans being created now. First state to do that.
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@benshawks08 said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
Kansas schools closed for the rest of the school year. Distance learning plans being created now. First state to do that.
Wow
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@DoubleDD @FarmerJayhawk has said numerous times that he is a libertarian. he doesn’t have a party. Your comment isn’t really a response to the issues he raised. You’re repeating talking points. This isn’t an effective way to have a discussion. What does Hillary treating the Midwest as flyover country have anything to do with Trump being a jackass? The answer is “nothing at all.”
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Is that like gender neutrality?
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I don’t see any need to attack Trump voters.
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@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
Is that like gender neutrality?
It’s more like a phase that people grow out of.
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@approxinfinity said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD @FarmerJayhawk has said numerous times that he is a libertarian. he doesn’t have a party. Your comment isn’t really a response to the issues he raised. You’re repeating talking points. This isn’t an effective way to have a discussion. What does Hillary treating the Midwest as flyover country have anything to do with Trump being a jackass? The answer is “nothing at all.”
Again it’s about perception. You say jackass, others say a president that speaks their mind regardless of the consequences. Believe it or not a lot of Americans love that quality. It better than making promises you never intend to keep. Only making those promises to get elected.
Say one Thing about Trump he didn’t lie about what he was going to do if elected. He’s pretty kept all his promises.
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@DoubleDD The wall
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It’s being built, so a half promise
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Bullshit campaign promises are a time honored tradition and hardly new to Trump though, one thing I would not fault him for at all.
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It’s funny you bring up the wall. When Obama was in office the Dem Party was willing to give Obama all the money he needed to build the wall. Yet when Trump became president not a dime? And he was called a racist? Talk about hypocrisy.
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Yea I’m going to get in line with a Party like the current Dems. Give me some good leadership and maybe I’ll change my opinion. Tell then yea I don’t think so.
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@approxinfinity said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
Could you imagine if we adopt UBI (already being pitched around as Mit Romney’s idea), it works well, and becomes part of the Republican platform? @FarmerJayhawk could this actually happen?
Oh it’s happening. Sec. Mnuchin is telling Senators we need something like at least $1 trillion in stimulus or we could face 20% unemployment.
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@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@approxinfinity said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD @FarmerJayhawk has said numerous times that he is a libertarian. he doesn’t have a party. Your comment isn’t really a response to the issues he raised. You’re repeating talking points. This isn’t an effective way to have a discussion. What does Hillary treating the Midwest as flyover country have anything to do with Trump being a jackass? The answer is “nothing at all.”
Again it’s about perception. You say jackass, others say a president that speaks their mind regardless of the consequences. Believe it or not a lot of Americans love that quality. It better than making promises you never intend to keep. Only making those promises to get elected.
Say one Thing about Trump he didn’t lie about what he was going to do if elected. He’s pretty kept all his promises.
The wall, repeal the ACA, make a beneficial trade deal for farmers, making college more affordable, rebuild infrastructure off the top of my head.
