Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond)
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@benshawks08 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@mayjay 98% if you ask him.
@FarmerJayhawk why is defunding the police a nutty policy option. It’s in no way equivalent to conspiracy cop killings to hurt trump. You yourself said they have too much military gear and overly police certain areas did you not? Is there significant proof that skyrocketing police budgets are reducing crime?
Defunding means to zero out the budget. That’s bat guano insane.
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@Crimsonorblue22 not sure to be honest but someone is trying tear this country apart. All the looters that were arrested in MN were outta state, some 15 hour drives away. Definitely something fishy going on. The average person can’t afford to just up and drive that far unless someone gives them money or in most cases it sounds like they are being bused in. In most the videos I’ve seen it’s white folks wearing Antifa shirts and what not. One video I saw appeared to have no construction in the area but a pallet of bricks sitting on the side of the road like someone just had them delivered. I trust no one as per usual, always something crazy in an election year.
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@kjayhawks I’ve never said only cops should have guns. I’m actually in favor of less cops carrying guns and have been for a long time. I said my remark was snarky and a bad attempt at a light poke. Probably wasn’t the time or place. Again, sorry if I hurt your feelings. Was not my intention. I’m happy to be wrong and clearly the comment didn’t go over well. Now that summer has started and my partner is still working from home I’m getting a bit restless and a bit looser with what I decide to hit submit on moment to moment. If there is any other concession you’d like me to make or have any other demands, let me know. Happy to listen.
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Maybe the common ground that we need to move forward in this is the fact we all agree that the police were in the wrong. I’ve seen not a single person of any race defend these guys. Police brutality is a problem, for several groups of people (ask most Motor cyclists in clubs). People will be quick to point out that more whites are killed by police each year and that’s true. But percentage wise the number for Minorities is higher based on how many more whites live in this country. Think of it as an endangered species of bird, we must work hard to ensure the survival of said species. But it doesn’t mean we are gonna go after all the others. Black lives matter is standing up to save the endangered, not downgrading the rest.
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@benshawks08 I wasn’t meaning you directly, I just thought some the articles you shared were crap, that was the come on man lol. I’m not gonna argue tho, you are entitled to believe whatever someone posts or not. Like I tell everyone the internet is proven to be more fake than true. Anyone can write up anything and claim to know something they don’t. I refuse to back forth with people anymore, I’ll respect your opinion even if I disagree with it buddy.
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@kjayhawks said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@Crimsonorblue22 not sure to be honest but someone is trying tear this country apart. All the looters that were arrested in MN were outta state, some 15 hour drives away. Definitely something fishy going on. The average person can’t afford to just up and drive that far unless someone gives them money or in most cases it sounds like they are being bused in. In most the videos I’ve seen it’s white folks wearing Antifa shirts and what not. One video I saw appeared to have no construction in the area but a pallet of bricks sitting on the side of the road like someone just had them delivered. I trust no one as per usual, always something crazy in an election year.
If the video you saw is the one trump tweeted it was geotagged and debunked. Not that that’s the only video out there. The crazy rumors spreading around wichita was a confirmed white supremacist group pretending to be black lives matter. I’d be very surprised if there was some elaborate conspiracy to bring agitators to small town Kansas. More likely online trolls trying to rule up conservative white folks. (And yes those trolls could be left, right, center, or not even on the spectrum)
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@kjayhawks which links were the big offenders for you. Seriously curious of your thoughts. Not trying to start anything.
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@benshawks08 I’m not sure, I don’t personally follow any politicians on social media. That’s why I say it could anyone paying these people. Could the Democrats trying to find a way to win in November or George Soros. I’d logically say it’s less likely to be a white supremacy group or one that wants Trump to be in for four more years. What they are doing doesn’t help that cause. Could be the government wanting martial law. We may never know the truth.
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@kjayhawks To me white supremacists make the most since because of people believe the protests are violent they can more easily be discounted. And there are several confirmed cases of that happening. But agree there is plenty more going on we don’t know or understand. Some folks seem mighty pumped to have troops in the streets which is just bizarre to me.
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@kjayhawks said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
Maybe the common ground that we need to move forward in this is the fact we all agree that the police were in the wrong. I’ve seen not a single person of any race defend these guys. Police brutality is a problem, for several groups of people (ask most Motor cyclists in clubs). People will be quick to point out that more whites are killed by police each year and that’s true. But percentage wise the number for Minorities is higher based on how many more whites live in this country. Think of it as an endangered species of bird, we must work hard to ensure the survival of said species. But it doesn’t mean we are gonna go after all the others. Black lives matter is standing up to save the endangered, not downgrading the rest.
Preach!
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@benshawks08 I just don’t like the random twitter ones of people sharing what they heard or assume. As we are taking about seeing both Antifa and you seeing white supremacy groups. All we can do is speculate, no one knows for sure. That’s why I said it could be anyone.
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@kjayhawks I think some are from wichita. I’ve seen videos of cops dumping bricks off, breaking windows of store fronts and vandalizing their own cars. Have u seen the one today of them shoving an old man to the grown and knocking him out? 75 yr old. Was awful. Hard for me to stick up for some of those guys. I’m not saying that about hutch cops. So many I see on tv have their names and numbers covered. Got me scared!
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@kjayhawks hmm… not sure when I shared random twitter people sharing what they heard about antifa or WS… the link I shared on that topic was business insider and had comments from twitter spokesperson. Is that not legit?
I did post “random twitter posts” of folks critiquing the 8 cant wait policies I And bshark had shared earlier. Those weren’t so much about the validity of information in them but the validity of the criticisms of that movement which I initially endorsed.
Again, the comment about radical left v center right was in jest and agreeably possibly out of line.
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What would you guys think if your nfl team took a knee this season?
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
What would you guys think if your nfl team took a knee this season?
Fine by me. They’re private citizens and can protest however they choose.
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What about this one? Seems like a pretty well coordinated scam traced back to one group. Am I missing where this info isn’t legit? Again busloads of “antifa” are not driving state to state…
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@FarmerJayhawk would you kneel w/them?
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@FarmerJayhawk would you kneel w/them?
Probably not. I prefer to engage in other ways. To me, protest is a deeply personal thing and I can do so in more effective ways. But that’s a personal judgment and I support citizens’ First Amendment rights.
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Most people I know would come unglued. But then again, they don’t understand. They might quit watching, even those that love the chiefs. I get it, if I was a teammate, I’d stand w/them.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@kjayhawks I think some are from wichita. I’ve seen videos of cops dumping bricks off, breaking windows of store fronts and vandalizing their own cars. Have u seen the one today of them shoving an old man to the grown and knocking him out? 75 yr old. Was awful. Hard for me to stick up for some of those guys. I’m not saying that about hutch cops. So many I see on tv have their names and numbers covered. Got me scared!
The video with the 75 year old is hard to watch for so many reasons. I think it points out how policing causes good people to lose their humanity. One of the officers after the man falls starts to bend down to check on him but is immediately redirected by what has to be his superior. After that 10-15 more cops just walk by a human body clearly in distress.
I want believe that most of these officers joined because they want to help people and help their community (Even when things I have heard from my brother who is a police officer cause me to doubt that belief). Instead they are now part of a system that forces them to ignore their most human instincts to bend down and check on a bleeding old man just can’t be good for their psyche. Sooooooo much change is needed.
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Cops kneeling at same place w protesters where that 75 year old was knocked down to try to acknowledge it wasn’t right.
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@approxinfinity I thought that was before they knocked that guy down. Lots of info swirling around.
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@BShark Oh? I may be misinformed.
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@approxinfinity said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@BShark Oh? I may be misinformed.
That’s not a hard thing to be at the moment.
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Yeah my bro-in-law shared with me, just told me it was opposite order. You are correct.
I was hoping for a silver lining
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Yeah no worries, it’s tough to suss things out right now.
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There’s a reason ancient tales of warriors dedicate thousands of words to the hero donning his armor. It’s part of every epic battle movie these days. Changing your physical appearance and preparing for battle changes your mental state. I don’t think those officers kneeling were insincere, but you put them in full riot gear, marching in lines and suddenly even a 75 year old man can look like a threat. Go to a gun range and ask every person there how holding a gun makes them feel and a majority of the time they will say “powerful.” It’s a rush. But that adrenaline while heightening your senses and quickening your heart rate is not helping you make rational, empathetic decisions. I know folks talk about individual responsibility but that fails to recognize the systemic issues influencing those individuals actions.
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https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1267176238960922624
police open fire on a car in Denver.
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Is it nut picking if the nuts find me?
How many till this becomes an actual problem? Serious question? I know one wacko doesn’t represent the rest. Remember, these are ideas these folks felt comfortable sharing in public! What do they say in private? How many agree that are smart enough not to share on Facebook?
And yes I see republican leadership speaking out against it as they should and yes I know they don’t represent everyone in the Republican Party. But am I wrong there seems to be an issue here? Again, happy to be wrong.
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Again, the right doesn’t have a monopoly on this. https://twitter.com/zellieimani/status/1268923888974659592?s=21
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@FarmerJayhawk And tell me again how that is close to the same as racist conspiracy theories?
And does he work directly for the Democratic Party? Can’t seem to find that he does. I may be wrong.
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@benshawks08 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@FarmerJayhawk And tell me again how that is close to the same as racist conspiracy theories?
And does he work directly for the Democratic Party? Can’t seem to find that he does. I may be wrong.
Ilhan Omar is calling for abolishing the Minneapolis PD and she’s a member of Congress. I think calling for a policy that will get thousands of people murdered is much worse than a few crackpots on the right saying some dumb stuff.
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@benshawks08 Both parties have their lunatics at the grassroots level that neither party supports at higher levels which is why a lot of those people never get beyond very low level local government.
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@Crimsonorblue22 did anything happen in hutch?
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@FarmerJayhawk Your telling me this viewpoint is as hateful and dangerous as racist conspiracy theories? Your example is trying to reimagine the way we look at the world with peace and love while the one I shared is spreading and sowing hate. You are free to believe what you want obviously but I know which I find more dangerous and appalling.
https://time.com/5848705/disband-and-replace-minneapolis-police/
Is it a radical point of view? Sure. Is it hateful and evil?
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Wackos everywhere. No disagreement there. Just Interesting that the most racist wackos all seem to be Working for the Republican Party.
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@benshawks08 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@FarmerJayhawk Your telling me this viewpoint is as hateful and dangerous as racist conspiracy theories? Your example is trying to reimagine the way we look at the world with peace and love while the one I shared is spreading and sowing hate. You are free to believe what you want obviously but I know which I find more dangerous and appalling.
https://time.com/5848705/disband-and-replace-minneapolis-police/
Dangerous, absolutely. A city without police will be a war zone. I’m all for police reform, but getting rid of it entirely is madness. And who will be harmed most? The poor and those unable to look out for themselves. The rich in gated communities can hire private security and protect themselves. But the small business owner living downtown? Who does she call if someone breaks in and robs her store? A social worker? You’ll have people taking law enforcement into their own hands, which has always worked so well, like in the Ahmed Aubrey shooting. So yes, I’m anti-getting people killed with dumb policy. I’m also anti-crackpot GOP volunteers.
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@benshawks08 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@Texas-Hawk-10 Wackos everywhere. No disagreement there. Just Interesting that the most racist wackos all seem to be Working for the Republican Party.
How familiar are you with the history of southern Republicans prior to about 50 years or so ago?
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@kjayhawks no, post phoned till tmrw, think 11 til 11. A lil hot. Lots of places closed all day or early, some boarded up. I don’t have fb. Seems weird and eerie to me. I was walking my dog late last pm and an old pick up went by, pretty slow and I scared myself! Imagination went crazy. I live in a nice neighborhood and know most everybody. Lol I was thinking BTK. Ha ha!
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@benshawks08 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@Texas-Hawk-10 Wackos everywhere. No disagreement there. Just Interesting that the most racist wackos all seem to be Working for the Republican Party.
Also, don’t pretend that Democrats have never done anything racist themselves. Trying to frame this as Republican vs. Democrat does nothing to help either side. Historically, Southerners who now tend to vote Republican have been more open about their racism as a culture. Northerners have historically been much more subtle in their racism which can be seen through policies such as redlining and gerrymandering.
Both parties have blood on their hands as far as racism in this country goes.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 how familiar are you with “the southern strategy”?
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@benshawks08 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@Texas-Hawk-10 how familiar are you with “the southern strategy”?
I’m quite familiar with white southern politicians going from Democrat to Dixiecrat to Republican within a generation?
Which enemy is more dangerous, the one who tells you they’re you’re enemy, or the one who claims to be you ally, but doesn’t do much to actually help you out and has done plenty to hurt the people the claim to want to help?
Which party made the “Tough on Crime” bill that’s since led to significant increases in incarcerations of minorities? Interesting factoid, the current presumptive favorite for the Democrat nomination co-authored that bill passed by the Clinton administration and both chambers of Congress which were controlled by Democrats at the time before Republicans took control of both chambers during the midterm elections that year.
Let’s not pretend that the Democrats are innocent when it comes to racism even in modern times.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@benshawks08 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@Texas-Hawk-10 Wackos everywhere. No disagreement there. Just Interesting that the most racist wackos all seem to be Working for the Republican Party.
Also, don’t pretend that Democrats have never done anything racist themselves. Trying to frame this as Republican vs. Democrat does nothing to help either side. Historically, Southerners who now tend to vote Republican have been more open about their racism as a culture. Northerners have historically been much more subtle in their racism which can be seen through policies such as redlining and gerrymandering.
Both parties have blood on their hands as far as racism in this country goes.
I agree the entire system is founded on racist policy. But to compare some on the left proposing radical policies to current Republican officials spreading racist conspiracies is a false equivalence and only works to excuse the behavior as “oh well, crazies be crazy” I’ve never said there aren’t wackos on both sides but do take issue with folks both sidesing where a majority of the Unapologetic racists sit politically RIGHT NOW!
Donald trump has purposely courted and emboldened disgusting scum for the last 4 years and only now are some republicans finally starting to examine what that has done to the party.
And, yes I Understand that most democrats prop up racist policies as well because white supremacy is deeply embedded in so many of the laws of this country including the ones you mentioned.
The north retreated from reconstruction policy as the kkk grew and spread around the south. As social Darwinism became a popular philosophy whites of all political persuasions began to believe maybe blacks were at the bottom because that’s where they are supposed to be. That’s the system folks are still fighting against to this day so forgive me for at least listening to people who think maybe the best idea for a clearly broken part of that system is to try something else completely. Black people didn’t even count as people when this system was formed so maybe reforms of that system aren’t enough.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@benshawks08 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@Texas-Hawk-10 how familiar are you with “the southern strategy”?
I’m quite familiar with white southern politicians going from Democrat to Dixiecrat to Republican within a generation?
Which enemy is more dangerous, the one who tells you they’re you’re enemy, or the one who claims to be you ally, but doesn’t do much to actually help you out and has done plenty to hurt the people the claim to want to help?
Which party made the “Tough on Crime” bill that’s since led to significant increases in incarcerations of minorities? Interesting factoid, the current presumptive favorite for the Democrat nomination co-authored that bill passed by the Clinton administration and both chambers of Congress which were controlled by Democrats at the time before Republicans took control of both chambers during the midterm elections that year.
Let’s not pretend that the Democrats are innocent when it comes to racism even in modern times.
This is why for me Biden was the absolute worst choice for democratic nominee. I didn’t vote for him but I have to now because emboldened, unapologetic racists murdering people is currently among my top priorities. I’m continuing to work to reshape the Democratic Party as well. Wrote a letter and participated in city council meetings this week.
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@benshawks08 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@benshawks08 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@Texas-Hawk-10 how familiar are you with “the southern strategy”?
I’m quite familiar with white southern politicians going from Democrat to Dixiecrat to Republican within a generation?
Which enemy is more dangerous, the one who tells you they’re you’re enemy, or the one who claims to be you ally, but doesn’t do much to actually help you out and has done plenty to hurt the people the claim to want to help?
Which party made the “Tough on Crime” bill that’s since led to significant increases in incarcerations of minorities? Interesting factoid, the current presumptive favorite for the Democrat nomination co-authored that bill passed by the Clinton administration and both chambers of Congress which were controlled by Democrats at the time before Republicans took control of both chambers during the midterm elections that year.
Let’s not pretend that the Democrats are innocent when it comes to racism even in modern times.
This is why for me Biden was the absolute worst choice for democratic nominee. I didn’t vote for him but I have to now because emboldened, unapologetic racists murdering people is currently among my top priorities. I’m continuing to work to reshape the Democratic Party as well. Wrote a letter and participated in city council meetings this week.
So you’re voting for the lesser of two evils then? That’s the mentality that has allowed this system to operate unchecked for 230ish years. Find a third party that matches up with your ideals and start supporting them. It won’t matter in November at the national level because no third party has enough support to steal any electoral votes, but can make a difference at the local level which is going to have a much larger impact on day to day lives and be the level that makes real change happen at.
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@Crimsonorblue22 be careful and don’t go out if you don’t have too. They’re plenty of good people marching for a cause but others are set on destruction.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I don’t give a crap about party at the local level because there I can support who ever fits with my ideals. But at the national and state level my goal has been to get rid of trump at just about all costs and vote out Cornyn and Cruz for their unwavering support for him (on top of their policies I couldn’t disagree with more). I Give my support to anyone I find who fits my ideals but won’t waste my vote when i at least agree with more of one party’s stance when compared to the other. Is Biden a perfect candidate, far from it. Is he better than trump? It’s not even close.
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@benshawks08 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@benshawks08 said in Racial Truths and Untruths and the Search for Justice while Doing Justice (previously titled To Infinity and Beyond):
@Texas-Hawk-10 Wackos everywhere. No disagreement there. Just Interesting that the most racist wackos all seem to be Working for the Republican Party.
Also, don’t pretend that Democrats have never done anything racist themselves. Trying to frame this as Republican vs. Democrat does nothing to help either side. Historically, Southerners who now tend to vote Republican have been more open about their racism as a culture. Northerners have historically been much more subtle in their racism which can be seen through policies such as redlining and gerrymandering.
Both parties have blood on their hands as far as racism in this country goes.
I agree the entire system is founded on racist policy. But to compare some on the left proposing radical policies to current Republican officials spreading racist conspiracies is a false equivalence and only works to excuse the behavior as “oh well, crazies be crazy” I’ve never said there aren’t wackos on both sides but do take issue with folks both sidesing where a majority of the Unapologetic racists sit politically RIGHT NOW!
Donald trump has purposely courted and emboldened disgusting scum for the last 4 years and only now are some republicans finally starting to examine what that has done to the party.
And, yes I Understand that most democrats prop up racist policies as well because white supremacy is deeply embedded in so many of the laws of this country including the ones you mentioned.
The north retreated from reconstruction policy as the kkk grew and spread around the south. As social Darwinism became a popular philosophy whites of all political persuasions began to believe maybe blacks were at the bottom because that’s where they are supposed to be. That’s the system folks are still fighting against to this day so forgive me for at least listening to people who think maybe the best idea for a clearly broken part of that system is to try something else completely. Black people didn’t even count as people when this system was formed so maybe reforms of that system aren’t enough.
It’s the height of privilege to tell the majority (92%!!) of black people they’re dead wrong to support either maintaining or increasing the their local police forces and decide that The Almighty White Saviors will just abolish the police and everything will he hunky dory, regardless of the black community’s opinion.
