If Bill Self were suspended for a year...
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@HighEliteMajor Read an interesting article from Sports Illustrated that breaks down the NCAA hatchet job on KU and Coach Self.
https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2019/09/23/bill-self-kansas-jayhawks-ncaa-allegations-fbi
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@Woodrow My remarks are sarcasm. I can only assume the “fire Self” comment was too.
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@nuleafjhawk I know yours were, but I do not think some of the others were. I actually think some people / fans want Self fired.
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@Woodrow Now that would be crazy. (not sarcasm)
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@rockchalkwyo You need to read the NOA, posted in the other thread going on. It is not based only on the payments themselves. You will see numerous allegations of KU being accused of knowing about but not reporting improper recruiting contacts by boosters, and not reporting equipment and apparel benefits for an amateur team being sought by and received by Larry Brown (also termed a booster).
The whole “coach responsibility” thing may come down to whether Adidas’s reps were KU boosters. Brown clearly was, IMO.
It is kind of circular: if recruiting for KU, they are boosters, but boosters are limited in how much contact they can have. KU’s defense will likely be that employees of athletic companies are obviously going to have contact with athletes and that any efforts to assist in recruiting were incidental to their jobs. As employees of another company, and since any discussions about schools were not exclusive to KU, they would not be subject to KU review, KU control, and KU-imposed job restrictions.
The NOA is clearly a shot across the bow by the NCAA signalling they want these back door relationships to stop. (Cynics would say, “to stay hidden”.) But how do amateur teams exist without company sponsors, and how do they expect colleges sponsored by these same companies to not have mutual contacts?
I said I wouldn’t do more comments, but after reading the NOA, I decided to put this out there since I haven’t seen this anywhere else.
And it is always interesting when the NCAA throws Brown into the mix!
Interestingly, the NOA lists KU’s entire history of BB and FB violations back to 1957 as aggravating factors. DP material?
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@mayjay Great thank you
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@nuleafjhawk Bingo! Sarcasm was intended, but I actually thought it’d be fun to see what happens if I write “Fire Self”! It was fun, but your football is manlier than basketball crap is true. Now if the players went back to wearing shorts that you know just extended below the buttocks like God intended them to, then basketball would be considered a manly sport again.
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@jhawk7782 For the first time in my life, I understand why coaches leave college basketball to …(cough…) coach… in the NBA.
I wouldn’t blame Self if he does.
Screw the NCAA.
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nuleafjhawk said:
@jhawk7782 For the first time in my life, I understand why coaches leave college basketball to …(cough…) coach… in the NBA.
I wouldn’t blame Self if he does.
Screw the NCAA.
Hes not gonna leave
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wissox said:
I always crack up at the everyone’s doing it excuse. That’s admitting guilt. When we’re at that stage, we deserve whatever the penalty is. I’m still miffed at this as I was thinking everything had been resolved.
“Everyone’s doing it” is not necessarily admitting guilt.
Sometimes, it’s shining a spotlight on a bad law or rule – as in one that is unenforceable, or out of touch with the times, and needs to be changed.
There are plenty of examples… the 55 mph speed limit (amended), Jim Crow laws (repealed) come to mind…
Anyway, I tend to be in the camp that believes this has been going on since the 60s and has become institutionalized by the shoe companies.
For those who ask-- where are the whistleblowers? I would say there have been plenty through the years. Some the NCAA investigates… others it does not (among its many displays of hypocrisy) It is rarely in anyone’s best interest to call it out, so it is usually from some disgruntled person.
Also, the money isn’t going to the student-athlete… at least, not directly. The money flows through the ecosystem of people surrounding the athlete… Relatives (not parents!), guardians, trainers and AAU coaches, etc. The distance from the players shields the player and the coaching staff and allows them to deny taking payments “truthfully”.
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@JAYHAWKFAN214 Like I said - first time in my life - but if you were a top flight college coach and had to be subjected to these BS (does not stand for Bill Self right here…) rules - WHY do it?
He could make just as much or more money, not have to deal with the commies and mommies.
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@nuleafjhawk ESPN’s talking heads are already predicting Self’s time at KU are nearing an end.
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@jhawk7782 SMH
Good thing this current NCAA NAZI Regime wasn’t around in the Larry Brown days. They’d have hung him in the town square.
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@bskeet From the '60s? Nothing has changed. Some choose to cheat even when it isn’t needed. Adolph Rupp was at it in the '20s.
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@jhawk7782 I was just going back to the Wooden era where there’s been pretty well-documented accounts of the payments… but I don’t dispute that it may have been going on more than 50 years ago.
All the more damning for the NCAA to have not found a way to build a system that was fair and enforceable. It’s a feckless institution that is out of step with the world.
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Cheating is a requirement for coaching basketball at Kentucky. Racism wasn’t far behind. Ask Adolph Rupp, Joe B Hall, Eddie Sutton, Rick Patino, and now Calipari.
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The NCAA is acting the part of the Robert Downey, jr. Character in Tropic Thunder.
“I know who I am!!! I’m the dude playing a dude, disguised as another dude!!”
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I’d say chances of Self sitting out a year are slim to none. If it comes down to that I’d bank on him retiring or being fired.
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kjayhawks said:
I’d say chances of Self sitting out a year are slim to none. If it comes down to that I’d bank on him retiring or being fired.
like I have said , this whole dam thing might just be the final straw that breaks the proverbial Camel’s back. - If that were to happen suspended for the year - - it might just be enough where he says - - Screw the NCAA - - Screw recruiting - -sick of it and Walk away , always heard how much of a toll recruiting takes on a person/family -could be if that were to happen he might just try and dabble in the NBA.
Like I said before , what does he have left to prove in the College level? - - - NCAA Champions ? - - - done that - - Big 12 Champion ? - -Done that multiple times. - - – College Hall of Fame ? - - - Done that
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I’ll admit my ignorance here. I have no idea what the NCAA’s reason for existence is. None. It seems to me as though it’s just to upset college fans and universities in all sports, but mostly basketball. I’m not being facetious, I’m really this dumb.
Why can’t we secede from the NCAA and play basketball without their approval?
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@nuleafjhawk But who would take all the post season tournament (new tourney of course) money if there is no NCAA? The schools?!? How absurd. Lol
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@nuleafjhawk Who would we play? The NCAA has effective control of all large college play due to the rule requiring all competition to be against NCAA-approved foes, even exhibitions.
Unless other schools were also willing to voluntarily dissociate themselves, we might be stuck trying to wrangle an entire slate of games, in dozens of sports, against national teams around the globe. Interesting idea, but hard to see how it would resemble what we like.
Maybe join the G league and get out of all other sports?
Theoretically, we could cut athletic department spending by some 95% and try to join the NAIA. Since their schools all together have about 60,000 in total enrollment, I doubt they would welcone a school our size.
I think the solution lies in fixing the NCAA. How? I will likely be dead before anyone can figure that out.
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@mayjay Maybe we could just join the " Y " ??
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mayjay said:
@nuleafjhawk Who would we play? The NCAA has effective control of all large college play due to the rule requiring all competition to be against NCAA-approved foes, even exhibitions.
Unless other schools were also willing to voluntarily dissociate themselves, we might be stuck trying to wrangle an entire slate of games, in dozens of sports, against national teams around the globe. Interesting idea, but hard to see how it would resemble what we like.
Maybe join the G league and get out of all other sports?
Theoretically, we could cut athletic department spending by some 95% and try to join the NAIA. Since their schools all together have about 60,000 in total enrollment, I doubt they would welcone a school our size.
I think the solution lies in fixing the NCAA. How? I will likely be dead before anyone can figure that out.
might not be as hard as you think - - I don’t really think that KU is the only school by far that would love to dis associate themselves from the NCAA totally.
I think that’s why you hear that the NCAA is actually the one walking on thin ice in the overall grand scheme of things - -a lot I mean a lot of schools not really very happy.
I think it might be easier to say what schools would want to stay WITH THE NCAA as opposed to who would want to leave - start a whole new association apart from the NCAA -oh sure schools like - - - Duke - - Kentucky - - North Carolina and a few other spoon fed darlings would want to stay with them but the bigger question would be - - who would they play - -I truly think if you were to take a vote - you would see that in reality that there are far more schools that would like to see the NCAA just go away then not.
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What gets fixed first? NCAA or social security? My money is on the retirement check.
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What Would Coach Marco say? That we’re not going to receive much of anything. Lack of institutional control is what Roy got slapped with at UNC if I’m not mistaken, and they basically got nothing out of it.
We are not getting much of anyone by way of recruits thus far, so the damage has already been done. I say just get it done and over with.
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nuleafjhawk said:
@JAYHAWKFAN214 Like I said - first time in my life - but if you were a top flight college coach and had to be subjected to these BS (does not stand for Bill Self right here…) rules - WHY do it?
He could make just as much or more money, not have to deal with the commies and mommies.
No, there he would just have to deal with malcontents and divas.
