Doke cleared to play
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@BShark I’ll be happy if Garrett can get north of 30%, maybe even 33%.
Unless KU adds someone, I’m still very skeptical at this point, One or two of those freshmen will have to play because they’re going to be the backcourt bench at this point.
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We’re going to have games that we shoot less than 40%, and win by 10.
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KUSTEVE said:
We’re going to have games that we shoot less than 40%, and win by 10.
Whiskey games.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Goodness, I hope the team embraces that attitude! I’m sick of watching teams try to out score the opponent. I would love to watch a team rip the soul out of another squad on D like the good old days.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 there’s a KU sports article about they are really working on the 3!
Shooting or defending?!? JJ I’m tired of seeing uncontested threes fall against the good guys!!!
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There is a possible link in the 3 point shooting for KU and that’s the 3 point line will officially be moving back over a foot to the FIBA distance. This should cause a reduction in 3 point attempts across the board temporarily like it did the last time the NCAA moved the 3 point line back.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 there’s a KU sports article about they are really working on the 3!
https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article214214824.html
From July 2018…
“I actually changed how I shoot the ball,” said Garrett, a 6-foot-5, 180-pound graduate of Dallas Skyline High.
He reworked his shot at the conclusion of the 2017-18 season and continued tinkering with it through the Jayhawks’ first session of summer school (June 5-25).
“I’ve worked on getting the right spin on the ball. I used to have top-spin; now I have front-spin. It feels better when I shoot it,” Garrett said during a recent interview at Brett Ballard’s Washburn University hoops camp at Lee Arena in Topeka.
From July 2019…
“It turns out front spin was wrong, and now I’ve reworked my shot again to have backspin instead of front spin”
Ok, I made that last quote up
He did say that he put front spin on the ball last Summer though.
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July 2019
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I think moving the line back will help us substantially. It’s a great year to focus on post scoring and we are well positioned there!
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Garrett certainly could fix his shot. Guys have improved their shooting touch before. It is not unprecedented.
It is, however, unlikely.
Garrett is pretty far along in his career and has never shown touch, either from the FT line or the perimeter. That suggests he is simply a poor shooter, not a guy that is an adjustment away, or just needs more repetition.
If KU does play a big lineup with Garrett, they have to attack the offensive glass. That is their only hope. That UNC team was a dominant offensive rebounding squad, and they still had very little margin for error.
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Didn’t Travis “fix” his shot?
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McTait on Twitter this morning, regarding Garrett. Tait caught up with Garrett at the Washburn basketball camp.
“Garrett said he’s still recovering from that high ankle sprain and is about 90-95 percent. Shut it down for nearly all of April & May to recover. Didn’t even do much shooting… Said he feels great today though & is happy to be back to work.”
So he hasn’t been working on his shot?
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Shooting is a skill…Travis fixed his shot, and if Marcus works at it, he can improve as well.
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Marcus can definitely improve his shot considerably. I think we all know that. @justanotherfan point is that it’s a difficult struggle to improve, and I agree with that. Muscle memory on form and touch is hard to program, but even harder to reprogram after playing for such a long time.
Out of everyone on our team, Marcus probably has the most room to improve his game. His athleticism is good, his size is good, his feel for the game is good, his reflexes are outstanding. Here is a guy who could make it well at the next level if he made big gains in some areas… mostly his shot. His handles can use some work, too.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
Didn’t Travis “fix” his shot?
Releford was a big time scorer in HS. While his shot wasn’t great, he never had many issues. He became a better shooter over time, but the skill was always there. It just needed refinement.
Garrett is different. He shot 30% from three as a senior in high school. He shot 62% from the FT line. He averaged about 13 points a game.
Garrett is a good player in a lot of ways, but he has never shown a good ability to put the ball in the basket.
That’s the red flag to me in betting on significant improvement. He’s never even really flashed that ability, so to expect it over a full season is a stretch. He may very well improve, but if he shoots better than 32% from three I will be even more impressed with his work ethic and dedication.
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Gorilla72 said:
McTait on Twitter this morning, regarding Garrett. Tait caught up with Garrett at the Washburn basketball camp.
“Garrett said he’s still recovering from that high ankle sprain and is about 90-95 percent. Shut it down for nearly all of April & May to recover. Didn’t even do much shooting… Said he feels great today though & is happy to be back to work.”
So he hasn’t been working on his shot?
I can hardly believe this. A solid shooting drill, to form the muscle memory discussed by @drgnslayr, is to take a chair or stool, put it at about 10 feet, take proper form, and shoot with just your arms/wrists. You can lower the basketball goal a bit to be somewhat proportionate to sitting. But it’s not important. You can help set that proper form without having legs, for goodness sake. It’s also a great drill to teach players to be quiet with their upper body when they shoot. The drill isn’t perfect, of course. But I will never understand why a kid that has shooting issues as deep as Garrett, isn’t 100% in on changing his form and cementing that moving forward.
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@HighEliteMajor Or lock him in the gym with the NOAH shot analyzer machine. Most high-schools have them. It tells you a variety of info about each shot so you can modify mistakes immediately. Their is a gym in the freaking dorm for goodness sakes. How can these guys not be improving?
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Improvement in any area, whether athletic or otherwise, involves two components. The first, obviously, is work ethic. No one improves without work.
The second, though, is just as important. That’s natural ability. There was a study of chess masters and grand masters years ago. They wanted to see how much difference there was in the two tiers of players. What they found was that both tiers practiced roughly as much, and both could recognize roughly the same number of game situations (piece groupings on the board). The difference was that the grand masters were always quicker to recognize those situations and their various options. There was an ability gap that transcended practice time.
The same has been seen in other academic and athletic pursuits. The gap between the elite and near elite is not about practice. The elite are just naturally a bit better.
Marcus Garrett is not a natural shooter. He’s a darn good basketball player, but not a natural shooter. Can he improve? Sure. Will he improve enough that defenses don’t sag away from him? Much less likely considering he has basically been the same shooter since he was in high school.
Marcus Garrett is a 30% perimeter shooter. Maybe he can move that up to 33%, but chances are if he improves, his improvement will be in the areas where he already excels like rebounding, passing, and defending rather than shooting.
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@justanotherfan Garrett is a career 35% 3 point shooter in B12 games in his career. That’s good enough to make teams pay that sag off of him.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 It’s as simple as this – if I’m an opposing coach, without a doubt, I say that I want the net result of a possession to be Garrett shooting the ball away from the rim. Is there a better realistic outcome to a possession (aside from a turnover, or Doke shooting a three)? Wouldn’t you offer that advice if you were coaching?
I would always sag off of Garrett. Always.
As a note, I think that Garrett banked in at least two of his 8 makes in conference play this past season. I think (just memory) that one was at home vs. Texas when he had the really good game.
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@HighEliteMajor Garrett actually shoots better in conference play than nonconference. If B12 teams want to sag off of him, I’m fine with Garrett taking 2 or 3 outside shots because the averages say he should make at least 1 of them.
If Garrett can make 35% in conference play against mostly better defenses than what he sees in nonconference, that means he can get his overall percentage to that level as well and teams won’t sag off a 35% outside shooter.
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@justanotherfan If you have never used the NOAH, you will be shocked how quickly you can make a permanent adjustment to your shot. There is a big gap somewhere as to why Dok and Marcus are not progressing more quickly. No reason why elite athletes of their caliber cannot make visible improvement. They may just be stubborn and the coaches have given up. Who knows. I know my HS girls made progress when they used the NOAH.
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Garrett, who again has sought out to tweak and retool his jump shot during this offseason, said most of the workouts his uncle and former AAU coach Matt Watts put him through during a quick trip home to Dallas after school ended consisted of a steady diet of NBA-range 3-point shots anyway.
And Garrett reasoned with the NBA line still sitting a foot and a half farther back in most spots — 23 feet, 9 inches around the arc and 22 feet in the corners — being able to consistently shoot and hit that shot should make the new college line much more manageable.
“My whole workout was just NBA 3s,” Garrett said. “People say the same thing about high school and once you leave college and go to the NBA. It just keeps moving back.”
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Guess he has been shooting
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@Texas-Hawk-10 We’re going to hear about Garrett’s shooting woes for the next 4 months. If you tell them he hit 35% from 3 in conference, they’ll scream “fluke”. Then they’ll say that teams will sag off of him, and then we’ll say he learned how to burn teams that sagged off of him by driving with the ball to the basket, by either dumping off, or going to the rim. Then they’ll say…" but, but, but he can’t shoot"…lol. I respect every person ( and there’s quite a few of you) for not believing in MG’s shooting ability because he hasn’t proven it yet. Not consistently. Not yet. I think his ceiling is 35% from 3, and that might not come until his senior year. Or, he might not ever get above 30ish. But…if he starts…he could easily average 2-3+ steals a game, and end up getting two buckets a game off of turnovers. That will go miles in making up for any shortcomings he has. He is returning for his 3rd year. He was ranked in the magical 25-75 range of guys we all say we want. Not a OAD. He made the ALL DEFENSIVE B12 team last year as a part time player. Let’s say he never gets above 30% from 3…
HE AVERAGED 1.3 3-POINT ATTEMPTS A GAME LAST YEAR.
" BUT HE CAN"T SHOOT"
HE AVERAGED 1.3 3-POINT ATTEMPTS A GAME LAST YEAR.
" BUT HE CAN"T SHOOT"
HE AVERAGED 1.3 3-POINT ATTEMPTS A GAME LAST YEAR.
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@HighEliteMajor And what is our main problem on defense? And who is our very best defender against the 3 point shot?
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Marcus, Ochai, Lightfoot basically give you the same value. Ochai wasn’t expected to produce and seems to have more upside so he’s loved. Mitch is what he is and you either love him or hate him to some extent. Marcus further polarizes people because he is near his potential (without a shot overhaul) and gets a ton of minutes.
Yikes Grimes hanging out with Moore and Teahan production wise. Just giving those minutes to someone else makes KU instantly better.
On the other end Dok at a 30 PER is worth any two of those fellows production and there’s only so many spots on the floor.
And yes, advanced stats say we are right in liking McCormack too!
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@KUSTEVE cough 1.6 cough but point taken.
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@dylans Marcus Garrett was 4th in PER in conference games last year (I’m not counting Doke since he played 1 game last year) at 15.3.
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@dylans I see…he played 30 games…not 36…ok…1.6…
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@KUSTEVE Some observations - when he’s only shooting limited threes per game, that’s a demonstration of futility. We need a perimeter player to be a threat. But the important point isn’t just threes – it’s the all shots away from the rim.
But as I brought a a while back, Aaron Miles transformed to at 50% three point shooter by his senior season.
He dominates the intangibles. He rebounds. He can get to the rack. He steals. He’s long. He can handle the ball. He hustles. He defends. He has a great attitude.
I love the point about the non-presumed OAD thing. Look at our perfect roster. Doke, SDS, Agbaji, Garrett, Dotson, McCormack, Lightfoot, Braun, McBride, Enuranu. Let’s add Wilson and the grad transfer.
@dylans Any citation to PER is a good one. It’s a testament to Garrett’s other stats that he can be at 12.8 with the shooting issues. Can you imagine if the guy could get those shooting stats up?
@Texas-Hawk-10 I still fail to see why conference games are given more value. He shot better in conference play his freshman year too. They don’t count more when it comes to the tourney seeding. I would think any trend up is good, but his trend line has been up and down. That’s just my opinion. If the trend line was going upward, and we could say that he was building upward, ok.
But the poor shooting form thing is obvious. We all know that’s the bigger issue. I’ve never seen any player shoot well like that – except maybe some 8th grader.
But as I posted on another thread yesterday, this guy is a big key to our success. And as I’ve tried to mention regularly, we all love having Garrett on the team – it’s really just the role/minutes that are the debate. If his shooting is remains an issue, then off the bench is the best role.
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@HighEliteMajor still not a ton of experience under Bill but I won’t complain about zero presumed oads.
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@HighEliteMajor If we get Moss, then a rotation of Dot, Ochai, Garrett, and Moss is strong. And if JW come aboard, then we can match up with anyone in the country. Moss brings a wealth of experience, and he can flat score. And then the MG outside shot becomes less significant.
