The Disappointment.
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@HighEliteMajor That would be interesting, I’d fire Self the day that came out if it was true. If we are paying guys to win one title in 30 years, we arent doing it right. I would say my chances of winning the lotto are higher than most of the power conference teams being clean.
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@kjayhawks So, you will be hosting us on your yacht for a big Buckets party in April?
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HighEliteMajor said:
@kjayhawks One thing we haven’t discussed – what if the broad range of other schools are not doing this? I know that seems a bit far-fetched. But what if there are some that aren’t in this conspiracy?
You can find those teams at the bottom of their conference standings, if there are any P5 programs that are truly clean.
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It will be interesting to see how the university handles this after the trial and verdict. Do they admit the wrong doing? Do they make Self face the media? Do they essentially “take the 5th” because there could be further charges? Do they fire KT as the sacrificial lamb? Does the chancellor demand accountability? Does the AD challenge the “cheating” culture? Does KU commit to a clean program, no payments, no Adidas help, moving forward?
The university has to respond to this, right?
Or, does … everyone … just … act … like … nothing … happened?
Have we already seen the net result – Markese Jacobs decommitting because he wasn’t paid (?) and KU gaining commitments from 100ish guys? No commits from anyone near a high-level recruit status?
The lead story at ESPN.com. How lovely.
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Violations ‘not worth it’ to new KU aide
By Gary Bedore
Tuesday, June 8, 2004
Kurtis Townsend, who was hired Monday as an assistant men’s basketball coach on Bill Self’s staff at Kansas University, worked at California from 1993 to 1997 under two head coaches – Todd Bozeman, who was fired and sanctioned by the NCAA for rules violations, and Ben Braun, Bozeman’s successor.
Townsend never has been accused of NCAA wrongdoing.
“I’ve asked for and received letters from the athletic directors at Michigan and Cal indicating I never had anything to do with NCAA (violations),” Townsend said. "We were at Michigan after they recruited the Fab Five.
"What happened with Todd was very difficult. To see that happen to a colleague and friend made it more difficult for me. That happening in my first college job … I said I’d never do anything like that. It’s not worth it to me.
“You don’t have to do things – a scholarship is a reward in itself. My daughter has been awarded a track scholarship to Syracuse. I can tell you it’s a big deal to our family that she’s on scholarship.”
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HighEliteMajor said:
It will be interesting to see how the university handles this after the trial and verdict. Do they admit the wrong doing? Do they make Self face the media? Do they essentially “take the 5th” because there could be further charges? Do they fire KT as the sacrificial lamb? Does the chancellor demand accountability? Does the AD challenge the “cheating” culture? Does KU commit to a clean program, no payments, no Adidas help, moving forward?
The university has to respond to this, right?
Or, does … everyone … just … act … like … nothing … happened?
Have we already seen the net result – Markese Jacobs decommitting because he wasn’t paid (?) and KU gaining commitments from 100ish guys? No commits from anyone near a high-level recruit status?
The lead story at ESPN.com. How lovely.
You are off on Jacobs. He ended up at Depaul for good reason.
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@BigBad I read that article years ago. Funny how he decides Townsend was dirty because he was hired at places after other people were accused, or because he actually had “contact” (no! say it ain’t so!) with someone who did something. I looked in vain for anything about what Townsend is suspected of doing. Recruited 5 kids who followed him. BFD.
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I’m not saying he is dirty. I just presented two articles with what seems like two different opinions.
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HighEliteMajor said:
It will be interesting to see how the university handles this after the trial and verdict. Do they admit the wrong doing? Do they make Self face the media? Do they essentially “take the 5th” because there could be further charges? Do they fire KT as the sacrificial lamb? Does the chancellor demand accountability? Does the AD challenge the “cheating” culture? Does KU commit to a clean program, no payments, no Adidas help, moving forward?
The university has to respond to this, right?
Or, does … everyone … just … act … like … nothing … happened?
Now to unpack this.
Bet not. Doubt it. Probably. Unsure on this but I hope KT is kept on. Don’t think so, Self has more power than Long. I wouldn’t bet on it. Maybe they slow on the shoe game for awhile but kids are getting paid one way or another imo.
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I wish I had a really good basketball player for a kid. I want to get paid too.
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@wissox yep, coming from a poor family as most of these kids are I can’t blame them for taking the money. What would you expect a poor 17-19 year old to do? Most of them know other players and see how it is, especially the OADs. They will only be around a season and it has little to no effect on them going forward. Go on take the money and run as Tom Petty would say.
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@kjayhawks Steve Miller Band?
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@mayjay shoot you’re right lmao it’s late
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Very sensible takes on the situation here from Carrington Harrison, a Missouri guy no less. The parts about the value of athletes in particular are quite good.
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A sensible take from that hack. That’s surprising.
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Woodrow said:
A sensible take from that hack. That’s surprising.
Eh, he’s generally fine imo. Do you have some issues with some of his previous content? I don’t think I could listen to any radio person for 4 hours a day.
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@BShark I don’t listen to him anymore at all or 610 for that matter. Not that 810 is that much better other than Soren.
He just wants to play the race card on EVERYTHING.
I don’t know if you follow him, but he was a huge Kayne fan and made that bracket of Kanye’s best 64 songs and it went viral. Like everyone that follows or likes that kind of music was talking about it. Then Kayne started his Trump thing and now he hates Kayne , feels sorry for him, etc… I thought that was pathetic.
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@Woodrow Soren is the only KC radio guy I EVER listen to. And that’s just when I happen to be in the car when he is on. So usually lunch time. The rest are definitely meh.
Anyway I understand where you are coming from on it. Kanye has admitted he has mental health issues though so in that sense I feel for him as well.
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Disappointed in HCBS? Rubbish.
@HighEliteMajor you should be disappointed in yourself. And so do all KU fans for that matter.
What is HCBS supposed to do?
So what if HCBS played it straight and by the rules(not saying he did anything wrong)(but what if he did). He refused to get in the mud with Duke, Kentucky, and UNC for the top recruits? Thereby losing more games and flopping even more in the tournament You @HighEliteMajor would be leading the charge to get rid of him. Yet you expect a coach of KU to compete at the highest levels without cheating when all the others are doing it. Sadly KU fans as a whole feel the same way as you @HighEliteMajor. They want all this greatness but by following the rules. Yet all the other major top basketball schools are cheating. Sadly when that coach fails to keep KU basketball at the top of the heap you all will be calling for their head.
The problem is the system. End of discussion.
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@DoubleDD Welcome back.
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I have not seen anyone post about who won the Zion lotto $$$? If he was wanting $$$ from adidas who won the battle? Why hasn’t the NCAA asked the question of How much money did Nike pay Zion’s family to go to Duke?
Duke University and Nike Inc. reached a 10-year sponsorship agreement that will supply all 26 of the Blue Devils’ athletics teams with uniforms, footwear, apparel and equipment.
If Money were an issue and his family was asking for it WHY would he go to duke for free??? How much were his parents paid? Come on! You expect us to believe that adidas was offering money and housing to attend KU and he went to Duke for free? From what I looked up and its public record his mother filed for bankruptcy a year ago or something like that. So if they were after a payday why go to Duke? I am sorry I think this goes hand in had with Clinton sayin if they take her down she would take half of congress with her. If they go after Self the whole establishment will go down too.
Again Why are there crickets on Dukes poster child. His parents didn’t turn down good jobs, free housing, and $20,000 because they liked Duke better than a free ride. No fn way!
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@DoubleDD If only it were the end of the discussion …
You said, “Sadly KU fans as a whole feel the same way as you @HighEliteMajor. They want all this greatness but by following the rules.”
Yea, quite the unreasonable demand. Integrity. Honesty. Pie in the sky stuff.
Not sure why I should be disappointed in myself. I’m not a liar and a cheater.
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You heard it here first folks. HEM has never lied once in his life.
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@BShark I don’t lie!
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@BShark HEM didn’t say that. HEM has expressed an opinion that obviously some here disagree with and others agree with. I lean towards his position, although it hurts like heck because I’ve always believed Self is above reproach. Just because HEM says that he values honesty and integrity isn’t an admission he’s never lied. I value it too, but, I’ve lied more than my fair share, although I really try not to.
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BeddieKU23 said:
From my memory of the Cliff Alexander recruitment Self was accused by other schools (fans) etc for how he was able to secure his commitment. The term Dollar Bill has been a popular one over the years
Oh, you would not believe how often I have heard that here in Michigan from MSU fans. Some seem to think that Cliff was bound for MSU until we swept in and paid him. One local radio guy in particular rails on that topic. And then Josh spurned MSU and playing with his buddy from Flint…that was the topper. People here swear that Izzo and Belein have nothing to do with Shoe money.
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@Hawk8086 Yeah, so far as we know Izzo only provided cover for several criminals.
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@mayjay Cover up some rapes here and there. Nbd.
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Maybe it’s that way everywhere? Maybe everyone is doing it? Just saying guys.
Is it unreasonable?
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If KU covered up a rape I’d be out until that coach was out.
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@BShark there was one that happened at the dorm…
I’m not accusing anyone here. I’m simply asking a question. With everything else that ppl think goes on and maybe does go on under the table…
Is it unreasonable to begin to wonder about things like that?
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@cragarhawk I don’t think Self would cover up a rape, He didn’t cover up Braggs deal and even sat him til he was proven innocent. Their only a few matters that come to mind of hiding stuff. Jackson’s kicking of Vick’s ex GFs car after she threw drinks at them, not that I agree with that action but I would say that’s definitely not in the same category as rape. The episode of Vick’s GF saying he pushed her a few back wasn’t given light til well after but records they both called each other in several times for similar reasons. Hardly makes it pass but sounds like a lotta he said, she said in a toxic relationship. Man I hope Vick is single haha…
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I don’t think that either. It’s a simple question. Is the thought entering your mind unreasonable. I think if you believe other things you see and hear you can at least say it isn’t unreasonable to wonder.
The truth is this. If you are capable of covering up some things, then nobody knows how far youre willing to go. Nobody but you knows how honest you really are. Or what you’re capable of. And it is not unreasonable after that… To wonder
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Considering all the details have come out over the years like @kjayhawks said I would like to think Self wouldn’t do that. Kjay even didn’t mention some like Tharpe having sex on the court or w/e that was and the Morris twins with the bb gun.
Covering up a rape is a lot different than getting players paid I think. But I wouldn’t say the question is invalid.
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@BShark absolutely agree. It’s on an exponentially different level in my opinion. But the point is well seen. Whenever ya find out things weren’t as you thought they were, it suddenly isn’t unreasonable to start wondering about all things.
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We know that a football player was kicked out for sexual assault but you’d have to be not only a terrible person for covering it up but to risk anything for a player on a team that sucks that day for would be one of the flatout stupidest things I could recall of hearing.
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@kjayhawks okay. But the basketball team doesn’t suck. And after all… That’s all any KU fan really cares about right? Winning? Even if we have to do what everyone else does…
You see. Once you start to decide what’s okay and what’s not. What’s gray and what’s not on the integrity front… it can take ya just about anywhere
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@cragarhawk I think the integrity of paying players under the table is a little different than covering up your players that have raped individuals. Just because someone doesn’t pay taxes on there income from side work doesn’t make them a rapist too. One is arguably a victimless crime while one is clearly not.
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If you all want a list of clean programs you’d rather root for, PM me and I’ll give it to you. It’s pretty short. Now that all this is coming out it’s kind of a relief for us who’ve seen it firsthand to be like hey you all guess what? Big time college athletics aren’t immune from economics either!
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@kjayhawks whether or not its different is not in dispute, and in fact had already been stated.
You’re missing the point. Once someone is dishonest with you about even the smallest of things… you absolutely will begin to question the largest of things. Human nature. If you don’t know this already brother. I sincerely hope and pray that you never first hand find out.
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@cragarhawk right, I just don’t like the idea of jumping to conclusions on something that isn’t related.
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@kjayhawks know the difference… Nobody jumped to any conclusion.
Asking questions. Wondering. Not the same. Not a conclusion. And not unreasonable. Attack the tree at the root, not the branch.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@DoubleDD If only it were the end of the discussion …
You said, “Sadly KU fans as a whole feel the same way as you @HighEliteMajor. They want all this greatness but by following the rules.”
Yea, quite the unreasonable demand. Integrity. Honesty. Pie in the sky stuff.
Not sure why I should be disappointed in myself. I’m not a liar and a cheater.
Yet you’ll be the first one leading the charge of getting a KU HC getting fired if they don’t deliver on the court.
You expect a KU Coach to play by the rules and deliver Final 4’s and NC’s year after year. Not one time will you say, “but they play by the rules”.
What you don’t think Duke, Kentucky, and UNC don’t cheat? Yet you expect a KU HC to play by the rules yet stay on top of the College basketball world.
Who is a head case here?
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mayjay said:
@Hawk8086 Yeah, so far as we know Izzo only provided cover for several criminals.
I agree, but you would still think he was Saint Izzo by listening to people here.
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@DoubleDD Perhaps you. If others were cheating, because the professor was lax in paying attention during an exam, does that then justify you cheating as well to keep up (assuming the class is graded on a curve)? If so, why? If not, why not? What action would you take with this knowledge?
And I would not make assumptions about what I’d say. I expect KU’s coach to play by the rules. Period. And if others are breaking the rules, then to take action to help ensure rules enforcement. You’re thinking like a cheater.
It’s not hard:
KC Star Reporter Jesse Newell: Coach, there have been major questions about KU’s recruiting. Why are we missing on top players?
Self: Because we won’t pay players.
Newell: What? Others are paying players.
Self: They are. Nike gave a kid $80,000 to go to Duke. We were given a chance to match. We said no. A UK booster bought a kid’s mom a car. We won’t do that. I know we love coach Roy around here, but UNC arranged a payment of $50,000 to the guardian of a they guy we just missed on.
See, cat out of the bag. Integrity. Or, one chooses to play the game.
I know which Bill Self I’d prefer.
We’ll see how this plays out now that the cat have been publicly and painfully forced out of the bag. Remember that – forced out. None of this is voluntary now.
@cragarhawk You said, “You’re missing the point. Once someone is dishonest with you about even the smallest of things… you absolutely will begin to question the largest of things. Human nature. If you don’t know this already brother. I sincerely hope and pray that you never first hand find out.”
Excellent.
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Fan fiction.
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Integrity and honesty are easier than you think.
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You’re insane if you think this…
“Self: They are. Nike gave a kid $80,000 to go to Duke. We were given a chance to match. We said no. A UK booster bought a kid’s mom a car. We won’t do that. I know we love coach Roy around here, but UNC arranged a payment of $50,000 to the guardian of a they guy we just missed on.”
Would ever be said. I don’t think you are insane.
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That’s true. It would probably never be said. But why not? Maybe it should be. Perhaps it’s time it came to that. I mean everyone wants to blame the evil organization right? Expose them for what they are.
