Okay, Okay, I plead DUMB!

  • Well, it is past time for apologies to Bill Self and staff for my merciless criticisms after that collapse in Norman. Now I hear that starters pled with Self to leave Udoka on the court, regardless of his free throw shooting woes. It turns out that Doke got to work pronto to improve such weaknesses. Team unity soon improved to the point that it now is hailed as a well regarded strength of this team. Since that loss to the Sooners, Self evidently has done some really fine work with Vick and Newman. Once again, HOF coaching genius discreetly but effectively at work.

  • @REHawk I wouldn’t say dumb, I think you have trust issues!🤣🤔🤪

  • OK REHawk, you’re dumb!

  • I wouldn’t say we are outta the woods just yet folks. I think people are getting a little ahead of themselves, Saturday isn’t a gone and forgotten thing, it will be a challenge. If we don’t end up getting the conference the OU game that we controlled for 37 minutes will be a huge factor. I said earlier in the season if Self can win the league with these guys, he’s hands down the best regular season coach in recorded history, not that he’s terrible in the post season.

  • @kjayhawks going to be tough!

  • @REHawk

    The chemistry stank. He tore the team a part to fix it. He fixed it. He had the shoeer put on some sleek new shoes. He talked for hours in the stall with the horse and took the horse for a few shakedown laps. Players caught in their inner struggles to succeed refocused on the team, so as not to lose their jobs. He fine-tuned the horse with the new gate and new strategy. The team took a few games to learn to run—to run the double post AND 4-1. The horse finally got it. He put the spurs to it, relaxed the reins again and the team is running like the little big horse with the enlarged heart—Seabiscuit—looking for a piece of War Admiral down the stretch. They are the little horse that could with three bigs as of late February. They are running out ahead of Self now. He thinks they could catch War Admiral if they don’t come up lame. This is the stuff of legends.

    You weren’t dumb, or wrong, coach. Little big horse just finally began to run for the jockey everyone doubted could make Seabiscuit run.

    Run Seabiscuit, run for all the little persons that have been beaten down, demoralized, deceived and exploited by the Deep State since 9/11.

    Run Seabiscuit, RUN!!!

  • @REHawk it takes a big man to admit his mistakes and change his mind. You’re a PHOF poster at work!

  • @REHawk

    Doke is a freak of nature. I do think any big man can improve at the line to the point of at least shooting 60%. That’s just a personal belief. But Doke has advanced at an amazing speed. Just look at his body. He has advanced in one year what most bigs would take several years.

    I always believed he could do better at the FT line… but after hearing others, I was almost convinced he might end up like many past bigs in the NBA… like Shaq and Wilt… who just couldn’t get it done.

    The difference in Doke is he has an amazingly soft touch. With a touch like that… he just had to develop a delivery system to get the ball up close to the hole. Keeping his elbow underneath the ball and aligned with the goal is all he needs to shoot 60%.

    Given some time… he may even develop into a decent FT shooter. If he develops his muscle memory along with his form, I could see him shooting in the 70s or so!

  • @drgnslayr Just think. Doke hasn’t even developed a jump shot yet. He only shoots hooks and dunks. If he spends the summer working on his form to shoot from the high post or heaven forbid even just face up guys in the low post, his free throws will improve. It’s all about muscle memory and all of his attention had been devoted to perfecting that short hook. He’s got that pretty much down with the right hand and is coming along with the left. I’d bet he could make +50 percent of his free throws right now if he took hook shots!

  • @drgnslayr

    I do not believe Doke is out of the woods yet on FT shooting and mechanics, but…

    Here is why Doke had to get better in the first place and I suspect why he has been able to make the improvement he has made.

    Reasons for Doke Needing to Improve:

    1. Basketball is not a game he grew up playing, or watching. It is not a foundation sport of his culture. He came to the game late, without a lot of imprinting from early childhood about how it is to be played. Thus, he was starting not just physically from scratch, but mentally from scratch.

    2. His non shooting hand/arm was severely injured last season to the point of needing a surgery that there was a possibility of never recovering full function from. He clearly does not have full function even now. Passing and catching are largely two handed activities. He struggles from time to time with catching and controlling the ball. Shooting is a two handed activity much of the time. Watch him dunk. He often struggles to control catching and directing the ball on the dunk. But fortunately he has big mits that are compensating some for the play in his left arm. The injury and surgery clearly played with his mind and he clearly was shooting free throws in the wake of the recovery in which he contorted the mechanics of his shooting hand even more. It is both unfortunate and improbable that he did not just commit to one handed FT shooting with his uninjured arm, after the injury. I infer therefore that it is likely that something is going on with his shooting arm that predates his injury to his non shooting arm. Likely as not he injured his shooting arm sometime in childhood and the residual of that injury is what leads to the peculiarly award form his shooting mechanics take now.

    Reasons Doke IS Improving Quickly:

    1. In FT shooting, it is much easier to from lousy to mediocre than from mediocre to good, and improving from good to excellent is another order of magnitude more challenging. Doke was lousy at FT shooting. Thus, it is fairly easy for him to improve to mediocre just because the fixes from lousy to mediocre are gross cut and obvious to identify, explain, grasp and practice. The higher up you go toward FT excellence, the harder it becomes to even identify what the problem is, and the more it involves subtle changes and a lot of intuitive feel for making them.

    2. Doke was learning the game from scratch, and just as he was starting to get it an injury last year sidelined him and arrested his hard earned development before it could be burned into muscle memory and before the confidence could be hard wired. When he came back this season, and suddenly had to play full time with minimal backup, he had to play half to three quarters of a season just to get his floor game back to being well oiled. Any player can only focus on getting better at just so many things at any given time. Doke was having to focus on a ton of offense and defense parts of his floor game, just so the KU offense and defense could function. Doke was also having to learn lots more of the play good and develop study and practice routines for learning and mastering the scout for each game. Lastly, Doke was being asked to hedge defend outside ASAP because opposing teams were scheming to force him to. Hedge defense 23 feet out is one of the hardest things to learn and execute in real time that there is to learn on a basketball court. His hedge defense is the single most amazing aspect of his rapid development. But the point of all this is to say that Doke probably literally didn’t have the time and mental processing resources available for making significant advances in FT shooting until January or February an then it took awhile for the work he was putting in to show up in game performance.

    3. Doke shot his FTs better early in the season and then went into a terrible slump in mid season and then had his bizarre experience with Kruger in the loss to OU. To keep it simple here, Doke has probably never had a slump before, because he was frankly too busy dunking during games and not needing to worry about FTs. To have a slump, you have to have progressed to a level of proficiency you can slump from. He arguably never reached that level. Thus, Doke had no experience with how to get out of a slump, because he had arguably never been in one. Most players by the time they are starting for KU have been through many slumps and have either an unconscious, or conscious ritual for weathering and getting out of them. Not Doke. It took him awhile to figure out how to start shooting FTs and then to get out of a slump. When he did figure it out, it seemed sudden.

    4. Doke has been getting better and worse and better at FT shooting every day of the season at practice and in games, but because he was so bad, we fans have grown to anticipate he will miss most of his FTAs and so really think about his FT shooting only when it precipitates a crisis of sorts. For most of us, that crisis occurred in the OU game when Kruger dorked with his mind successfully and OU won the game. At that moment, everyone on this board, and in the media, began to focus on Doke’s FT shooting. Thus, when it took a turn for the better it seemed like sudden improvement, instead of part of a season long striving to improve that most of us had overlooked, because of his low FT%.

    But enough about the complex of dynamics of Doke’s improvements.

    What I notice most about Doke is that he is a GREAT athlete.

    And I mean GREAT.

    He effortless does things other guys NEVER do.

    Each game I marvel at how fast he transitions to the other end. He doesn’t even look like he is running very hard, but even starting behind most of the other guys releasing and with farther to run, Doke still beats most of the KU players down the floor. He actually accelerates through them and passes them. Its amazing to watch. It is rare that a big man does this and I have never seen one do it almost every play. And remember that Doke is usually outrunning a 4 man perimeter of race horses that can really cover ground fast themselves. Part of it has to do with his stride length, as is the case with any big man. But the heart of it lies in how efficient and graceful he is and this is realm of great athletes that distinguishes them from ordinary athletes. They are just flipping more efficient and elegant than the rest of us.

    Another thing I marvel about is this running hook of his. If he can keep developing the rest of the fundamentals of his offensive game this running hook could become one of the most devastating shots in basketball especially at the professional level, when he finds an NBA coach that grasps the strategic possibilities of scheming an offense around a running hook. Dave Cowens of the Boston Celtics shot a running hook and a 19 foot jump shot. He was only 6-9 and these moves, plus his disruptive defense and running game allowed him to lead a team to some rings. Doke will likely never play with the outward fire of Cowens, but he seems to possess the inner fire and he is an even better shot blocker. And I could actually imagine Dokes running hook getting better than Cowens. There is a shooter inside Doke that we are being distracted from because of his injured non shooting arm and his so far poor FT shooting. This guy makes 71% of his dunks. Not very many big guys can score 20 ppg on dunks alone and make roughly 70 percent of them. Its an amazing accomplishment, but its really an indicator. This guy could become a very high percentage running hook shooter, because of what a great athlete he is. As great as Embiid is, Doke is a more efficient and elegant athlete even than Joel. I don’t think he can become better than Embiid, but he can become as a good in a different way. People have long underestimated how great Dave Cowens was, because he did not conform with the stereotype created by the super centers that immediately preceded and followed him. Arguably the greatest running center of all time was Bill Russell, but he never developed a good shooting touch. Walton was the most diversified running center of all time. He could do it all, but he became injured. Cowens, who was not as great of an athlete as Russell, was even better at scoring in the running center game, because he had the combo of the high post J and the running hook crossing the lane. But Cowens, not even in college, could dunk with the efficiency and frequency of Doke. What Doke needs is one more money shot to go with the running hook and his savant like dunking and he is ready for the hall of fame. He may never find it, but he is such an obviously resourceful human being, he may find such a shot, or he might even evolve the running hook to something that can be shot more places on the floor. Doke has a REAL gift for the running hook and a real touch with it. It starts, same as Cowen, with his great foot work and great efficiency and elegance in his running. But it extends all the way up through his body to his head. He doesn’t use the jump hook much, but oh, my, if he stayed another year, or two, gets his FT shooting up to 65%, I could see Self running the entire offense through Doke and scheming a ton of running hook plays where Doke gets about 20 FGAs a game, about 10-12 FTAs per game, and about 6-8 assists per game from kicking out from the running hook to three point shooters, too. No college team could really defend such an offense. Most opponents would be fouled up with 8 to go in the first half. But he will probably go pro before Self can scheme around his running hook. What a pity.

  • @jaybate-1.0

    Whew! You winded me on that long post! But it was a great read.

    Just look at Doke in the last two games… WVU and OU. These are the first two games where I really saw him start to connect the dots of “flowing” offense.

    His shot releases are smoother. Less jerky… less hesitation… better follow-through.

    As mentioned by @benshawks08 Doke hasn’t even worked on a jump shot yet. I’m glad he waited. As you stated, he has very little background in basketball. He’s a late starter. It would be easy for him to begin mastering fundamentals in the wrong way. By starting at the FT line… it really is a matter of shot form. So his sole purpose at the line is to work on form, how he focuses on the basket, etc. There are other elements that add in for jump shots.

    Back to soft touch… even when Doke tangles up his arms and elbows at the line, he has still been able to push up a soft touch shot. I’ve never seen anything like that. Those crazy looking shots should have bricked off the rim or backboard. He does have potential as a shooter. Anyone who can do that has a gift. I’m not saying he will become some kind of shooting savant… but the possibility is there.

    Even in the low post… on his odd hook shot (or whatever you want to call it), he still has a softness to his shot.

    I can almost imagine Doke is shooting a newborn baby and not a basketball. His softness is so unique.

  • @jaybate-1-0 I guess I’ve missed Doke struggling to handle passes. That’s been one of the biggest pros I see from him. Maybe we just have good post feeders? I just haven’t seen that many turnovers where the ball goes into Doke and he is unable to secure it. I haven’t paid enough attention though to notice if he always catches with one hand or the other. Also, it hurts me every time Doke beats his man down the floor and our guards pull up from 3. He runs sooo hard EVERY time! He did a heck of job conditioning for this year.

  • @drgnslayr

    It does not take a long winded essay to indicate what Doke needs to improve as I posted before. First improve rebounding since he is below where he should be; he needs to know how to position himself defensibly and offensively. Develop a mid-range shot, increase endurance and improve his FT form. That was10 second of you life you are not getting back. 😄

  • @drgnslayr

    Glad I can still stretch you even a little.

    Because I’ve been getting feeble, I’ve been playing around with short posts for awhile, while Self worked the team through its apparent chemistry cancer. As @HighEliteMajor found, it is thankless, even when trying to do it the right way, to write apparent chemistry cancer analysis and be heard, because so many board rats recoil at the thought that the guys are human and don’t like each other sometimes, or just get stuck in cliques, from time to time, or grow too naval contemplative coming off the court because of a bad play, or develop off court issues (the pot you mentioned and problems with girl friends and books and so on), or simply snap under the incredible strain of trying to play at D1 level, AND go to school, or play for a brilliant button pusher known to wear thin in practices in February, because of a stinging tongue and a long season.

    But now that Self appears to have the apparent chemistry cancer in remission (it apparently likely would come back, if things were to go south in a big way now that Self has no time left to take it apart and rebuild again), everyone can get back to talking about the game and about what Self should or shouldn’t be doing with the personnel he has, rather than recoiling from the thought that players are acting like human beings.

    As a result, if I can muster the resources, I’ll now likely get back to some posting for the stretch. So: work on your wind.

    Regarding Doke’s jump hook, you watch, it is the sweetest, smoothest running hook with the best arm and leg mechanics ever and he hardly uses it still because he can’t put it on the floor well enough.

    Its pretty obvious why he isn’t shooting a J, right? The FT mechanics sure aren’t conducive to generalizing.

    But they will get ironed out in time, I reckon.

    To shift gears a bit, one of the other reasons I have been posting less length is that to authentically deal with most interesting topics afflicting a CBB industry with its spiking Jekyll and Hyde personality, especially the apparent limited hangout and so apparently fake news scandal being orchestrated by way of apparently carefully cultivated media outlets regarding recruiting, one would have to get into who is trying to affect regime change in the CBB industry right now, and why; rather than focus on the recruiting hanky panky, which frankly is hardly news, and so has to be the distraction being used, while the players behind the scenes move in for the kill for control over the game.

    I mean anyone that has read the late Murray Sperber’s 1990 “College Sports, Inc.” and Dan Wetzl’s 2000 “Sole Influence: Basketball, Corporate Greed, and the Corruption of America’s Youth,” already knows this is all old news that has just been being ignored for decades.

    The real question is why now?

    Cui bono? from raising the story right now?

    And to go there it is best to wait and see what TPTB orchestrate and who they want to reveal themselves to be, or if they wish to stay in the shadows.

    I would keep an eye on one of the Big Four investment managers that get the PPT untraceable bailouts being in the Deep Background on this.

    Its really appears similar in technique so far to the apparent attempt to frame Trump. It was apparent they didn’t have anything on Trump from the beginning (i.e., all they had to do was ask the D-NSA and he could have given them the evidence, if there had been any, without any investigation) and that was why they needed to sell the sizzle of something (the Steele Dossier) and not the steak ( what would have been intercepts of Trump that it turned out apparently didn’t exist). But it turned out the attackers had a great deal to hide and decided that the best defense was offense. Capice? As a result, Trump and his attackers wind up locked in paralyzing legal combat, while a third player swoops in and fills the vacuum and gets to exercise its agenda. Keep your eyes on the Generals and their backers. 🙂

    Me thinks something similar might be afoot here in the CBB industry. Lock two sides with something to lose in legal conflict, then a third swoops in and aces both of them out.

    But time will tell as always.

    And I do keep reading out of curiosity about a third option that I deeply hope is not in play.

    I keep reading about private oligarchies in history that have used systematic, sustained demoralization to stealthily prepare a culture for subordination. In this option, all the institutions that give a nation of persons definition and confidence are called into question, and smeared with scandals, and riddled with agents provocateurs. Sports are compromised and scandalized and politicized relentlessly not only for profit, but to destroy one of the things that reassure and please a people; that give them some swagger. The goal is demoralization. The images of men and women are intentionally twisted with entertainment. Pop music and fashion industries are wielded to convey self destructive imagery, and corrosive mythologies to the pre-existing ones. Whatever the corrodes the legacy culture is invoked endlessly until consensus dies. Ugly, repressed secrets of human deviance are dredged up and exposed and repetitively connected to pre-existing orders, not to rid the culture of its deviants, or to heal and forgive them, but to make the culture doubt itself and its values and so make it more receptive to self-capitulation to the new private oligarchy orchestrating things from the wings. This happens often in history, probably more often than hot war. Woe, woe, woe is America, if this is really what were going on.

    Rock Chalk!

  • @benshawks08

    Yes, you have IMHO, but if you don’t see it, maybe I am wrong, or maybe you aren’t really watching his play very closely. He often struggles to control the ball before jamming it. I actually think a big part of his rebounding problem is a problem of controlling it. I hypothesize that his problem with controlling rebounds he cannot get to is what prompted Self to scheme the offense for him to do relatively little of the rebounding and emphasize his abilities at hedge defense outside. Self was kind of going with the flow. The opponents were going to try to draw Doke outside anyway, because he was the only big man, and combined with his trouble at controlling the ball it made sense to concentrate him on guarding the post inside and hedge defending outside and working with the perimeter guys to get them on the glass; that I believe was why we were such pitiful rebounding team early on for awhile. It took our bunch of 5 effectively combo type guards (even Svi is combo and came as a PG) a long while to learn to get on the glass the way Frank did last season. They still aren’t there individually, but as a group clearing 5 apiece they get us where we need to be most games now.

  • JayHawkFanToo said:


    It does not take a long winded essay to indicate what Doke needs to improve as I posted before. First improve rebounding since he is below where he should be; he needs to know how to position himself defensibly and offensively. Develop a mid-range shot, increase endurance and improve his FT form. That was10 second of you life you are not getting back. 😄

    Where are your attack graphics?


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  • @jaybate-1-0


    Article Title: Meet the Bag Man – How to Buy College Football Players, in the Words of a Man Who Delivers the Money (April 10, 2014)

    I lived in the heartland of SEC football and saw evidence of suspected payoffs first-hand. You are correct, this practice has been going on for a long time.

    Yours is an excellent question – “why now?” My question to you is “why basketball?”

  • @CRH107

    Thanks so much for sharing that about SEC football. I haven’t known any one on the inside of it, since the early 1970s, when it seemed to make what went on in the then Big Eight seem pretty tame.

    You added a ton of focus by thinking to add “why basketball?” to “why now?” I can’t answer your question, but I’m confident finding that answer would take us very near to who is doing it and why now.

    Rock Chalk!

  • Answer: Money.

  • @mayjay

    Is there more of this sort of money in basketball than football, if any?

    Or is the money in basketball now a stepping stone to the money in football, if any?

    Or is this somehow about getting at money in gambling and the money laundering that might go on through gambling, as reputedly occurs in Italy?

    It doesn’t seem clear.

  • Money is in the big contracts players stand to get, and agents want to get their 10%. The investigation could well be helped by agents tired of losing client opportunities to the crooks.

    I really don’t see any chance the Fibbies are doing anything except pulling loose threads and having fun seeing what unravels. These types of investigations are exciting in their own right–no reason to let Yahoo and company create an air of corruption among the investigated AND the investigstors.

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