Oklahoma State's loss is KU's....loss

  • With every loss that Oklahoma State accumulates, Travis Ford’s seat is getting hotter and hotter. With the amount of talent that he has on that team, it is inexcusable to have had such an atrocious season. This is compounding the fact that OSU hasn’t made it past the first weekend of the tournament since 2005. Marcus Smart, Lebryan Nash, and Markel Brown all decided to come back for another season when each of them could have easily jumped to the NBA all to compete for a championship. But as of right now, they may not even get the chance to be in the field.

    Marcus Smart has imploded on himself, showing immaturity on several occasions this season, and showing more importantly that nobody has sought to develop his character, as well as his game.

    When Smart shoved the Texas Tech “superfan” during the closing minutes of their loss to another unranked team, many KU fans said, “this would never happen if he played for KU,” and “Self wouldn’t stand for this.” This is probably true. But the simple fact is, Coach Self is in Lawrence, and Marcus Smart is in Stillwater. That right there is the dilemma. If anyone has shown the nation that talent doesn’t win championships without a strong-minded and intelligent coach at the helm, it’s coaches in the Big 12. We all laugh at the Scott Drews, Travis Fords, and Rick…Barneses of the world, but we as KU fans may soon enter another unsure period in our rich basketball history.

    With every loss, Travis Ford inches closer and closer to being fired. What happens this time when T. Boone Pickens comes calling for Self? What happens when he offers an astronomical figure of say $8 million/year? Can Self turn it down? I would like to think that yes, he can and will. Because I don’t think this is all about money. I think KU would be put in a position where they’d have to match, or at least come close to it. Even then, there are the intangibles that KU offers, that OSU does not. Let’s take simple fan attendance for example (of course there is more).

    But the question remains “what if?” As KU fans, we’ been burned before (which makes me think. I’ve been reading “100 things KU fans should know before they die,” why didn’t KU make a serious play at Dean Smith in the 1970s or late 1960s? But I digress). Coaches leaving for their alma mater is of course the exception, not the rule. But KU b-ball could be facing another coaching crossroads in the near future.


  • I don’t think Self will leave to go to OKST. With them being an in conference rival and HCBS caring so much about KU, he knows it would be a huge slap in the face to us fans. If he ever jumps from KU i think it’s to the League

  • @HawkInMizery

    Those are my feelings exactly.

    Sure CS wouldn’t stay in the B12. Most of his legacy in coaching will be from KU, and I don’t see him turning around and thumping us… regardless of the money. However… if Pickens comes a knockin’… who is to say his offer won’t be used as a bargaining chip? Even though… I think CS would like to bargain next against a big accomplishment at Kansas, like another NC, or maybe 10 consecutive B12 conference championships (or both)… He’d like to be rewarded for his accomplishments more than just a counter bid from a higher bidder.

  • @drgnslayr

    The optimist in me is hoping he cashes in on two of the bargainnig chips this year. B12 banner #10 and National Championship #2!!!

  • @HawkInMizery If he does that, we can do something that no one else can do to keep him in Lawrence for a long time: The Bill Self Basketball History Museum, featuring the original rules by Dr Naismith.

  • @MoonwalkMafia Self to OSU would be like trading in a Rolls-Royce for a Yugo.

    You know how dang hard it is to find parts for a Yugo ?

  • @bskeet

    Man… that is a whole-lotta butta fer one slice of toast!

  • I believe that Coach Self will do all of his college coaching at KU; he has too much of a legacy going to go anywhere else and start again. If he leaves, it will be down the road to NBA team just to prove to himself that he can succeed at that level. If you think is tough coaching the one and done prima donnas in college, in the NBA you are coaching prima donnas that make more money than the coach.

    He is one of the top 3-4 paid coaches in college basketball and money would not be a reason for him to leave.

    If I understand correctly, Tyler Self will red shirt this season, meaning he has 3 more season of eligibility. I don’t believe Coach Self would leave until Tyler is done.

  • I have a hard time believing he would leave KU as long as we have the B12 conference consecutive championships going on. More than any other accomplishment, that is his to own and is what separates him far more than winning a national championship. It is his conference work along with his winning % that will shine out most in his legacy.

    How could he leave while his record of consecutive conference championships is still in progress? It is his legacy as much as the university’s.

    Question is… how long can he keep this streak alive? From the direction we are going, it is hard to see us drop one in the immediate future!

    Rock Chalk, Coach Self!

  • I don’t think Self is a lock to stay at KU unless the new housing for KU basketball players is a done deal and dirt is broken this off season.

    Self has turned this basketball program into the most monster money maker imaginable. He has won 84% of his games. He has won a ring. He has brought in monster recruiting classes. And the state won’t even fund housing for his players. It is disgraceful.

    Self could rent a U-Haul and be down in Stillwater a week after the season, if Pickens offers him more salary than Calipari, and a ground breaking on new housing. Tyler can be a walk on at OSU as easily as at KU. Self’s whole staff would move with him in a second, because he would be able to double their salaries.

    Nike would back him in Stillwater just to put a thumb in adidas eye and so adidas would back Self in Stillwater just to keep from getting a thumb in the eye from Nike.

    Remember, Self has turned his back on the “continuity program” of 3-4 year players; this is the new OAD era. Self could take Oubre and the big guy from Chicago with him to Stillwater. Wiggins and Embiid could go pro. And Self could hang onto a couple of Ford’s players and probably beat KU next season.

    Bill Self is going to get his just rewards for the job he has done one way or another. And he’s 50 years old. If Pickens offered him as much money as he would make coaching in the L, and Self only had to coach 40 games instead of 100 games, he would be crazy not to cash out of KU now and take the OSU job.

    Cal proved that in the OAD era, you can switch schools and not miss a beat and Cal isn’t half the coach Self is.

    Self could coach his last ten years with his folks in his backyard so much money he could turn Stillwater into a solid winner. Eddie already proved it could be done.

    I am not saying Self wants to leave KU.

    I am saying he will leave KU, if that housing isn’t built.

    Self has gotten a taste this season of just how tenuous his coaching excellence really is.

    He is 20-6 this season with great talent.

    20-6 with great talent, tough opposition or not, is not a sparkling W&L statement. It can happen to anyone.

    If Self has a couple more 20-6 stretches the next few years, his hyper marketable days will be over.

    If Self wants to cash out, he probably has to do it very soon.

    CBernie and Sheahon and the alumni are going to have fork up the money for the housing and they are going to have sweeten his salary, or they are going to lose him as surely as Hemenway lost Roy.

    Self isn’t really asking for all that much for himself.

    He is asking for as good of housing for his players as lots of other programs have.

    He deserves it.

    And if he doesn’t get it, he will go somewhere where he can get it.

    And he should.

  • Lotta butta-- y.e.s. But consider this, Roy Williams just got his 300th win at UNC this week and Bill Self got his 320th win at KU tonight.

    Roy Williams was on track to be a HOF coach before he jumped even w/o a NC.

    Bill Self is on track to be a HOF coach in less time. If you look at the numbers, he’s the best of the 9 coaches (all time) at KU. If you look at the recruits, he’s the best coach. If you look at his ability to graduate and to run a clean program, its as good as any.

    Maybe he isn’t as innovative as Phog and maybe Larry did something more magical and maybe Roy cemented the Silver Age of basketball at KU, but Bill Self has defined success in a new way.

    I think he’s deserving of something with his name attached.

  • @MoonwalkMafia Interesting thoughts/suspicions. That said, KU is worth more in basketball capitol than any number T.Boone can throw at Coach Self. KU has the legacy, the history necessary to call itself The Premier program in College ball. KU IS College ball. Coach Self knows this and to be sure, Im betting the top brass at KU do as well. They would pony up more cash to keep him around if they had to. It wouldn’t take much.

  • @jaybate 1.0 Thanks Jaybate for playing devils advocate 😉 Your so good at it.

  • And besides, Tyler hasn’t graduated yet. 😉

  • JAYBATE: My humble opinion is the KS State legislature is NOT going to preferentially build KU’s “posh” player apts due to the inevitable pressure to spend similar million$ for other state universities. KS is broke. And Bill Self is smart enough to “get” that. He lives in KS and knows more than any of us about what the State’s revenue means specifically for his Jayhawks. He also knows KU’s football stadium renovation is looming soon, and is desperately needed. Bill Self sees the big picture.

    MOONWALKMAFIA: Zenger signed Self to a 10-yr, $52million deal last year. Self accepted. TBoone Pickens offerred Self at least that much in summer 2008, and Self turned the money down, and turned down his alma mater. Notice how Kruger left KState when he realized he couldnt make them a national power? Self’s mind has to compare what KU brings vs. what OSU offers–there is NO question going to OkieState would be a step down. Honestly, the ideal time for Self to have left KU would have been in 2008, right after the natl.championship…less attached to KU at that point, right? But what does he do–> he asks Lew to invest in the basketball facilities. He was still trying to build the program bigger and better. If he sees KU’s true foes as other national-level contenders like Duke, UNC, MichSt, Syracuse…he knows his best chances to compete are at KU. “Going home” like Roy did only makes sense if you are making a lateral move (like to a royalty school like UNC, which WAS Roy’s home). Self has NO ties to any other royalty program. Going to OkieState is a DOWNWARDS move, just like Kruger going to KSU from OU would be a DOWNWARDS move. Wont happen.

    Again: Self accepted KU’s $52mil 10yr offer last year, and turned down OkState/TBoonePickens offer in 2008. His actions speak beyond any coach-speak or soundbites.

    Take care, guys, great discussions!

  • @ralster

    Best post of the day. You are absolutely, 100% spot on,right on the money…(add any other cliches here)

    You not only “get” the big picture but outline it clearly and concisely

  • @ralster: agreed Self gets the big pic file re: state revenues. That is exactly why I wrote what I did. Housing is crucial. And it could be easily solved many different ways. And it must be or he will probably leave.

  • @jaybate 1.0 To support your idea (& I really want the posh apts also), if it is a make-or-break situation for Bill Self, then I’d just about guarantee that KU Athletics + donors 100% will fund the project. As they should, this is our baby–and we should retain 100% control of it. Self has added how many tens of millions to KU Athletics with what he’s accomplished here. Plus I wouldnt want state “stipulations” to come with their money–just say no to govt SNAFU or FUBAR. The concept should be: “For Us, By KU” (FUBKU), as in “fubu gear”. FOE. RCJH. Or, to spin off the Nike phrase “just do it”…“We do it better”.

  • @Lulufulu85 You may have seen the posts, but YES, KU has ponied up the cash, and Bill Self accepted the $52million…

  • @ralster PHOF!

  • @bskeet What HCBS will get with another national championship is the second statue in front of the Field House! (And, by the way, that is what Roy missed out on by leaving.)

  • @bskeet Let’s hope for that to happen. I would love for Bill to retire here. We already know he is HOFer. But there’s nothing saying he can’t pile on to that legacy!

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