Fire Beatty. Fire him now.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 he’s not gonna come back of course but I’m bet he would’ve averaged 5 or 6 wins in the time span he was gone. I bet he wins 5 games in Gills first year, one other thing to consider is we had a solid recruiting class that fell apart when he resigned.
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@kjayhawks No way Mangino wins 5 in 2010. KU had no QB because Mangino never developed a back up/successor for Reesing. That’s why Kerry Meier was officially the back up QB for 3 years despite also being a top receiving target for 2.5 of those years.
The other issue is KU’s defense was still going to be crap that year because Bowen would’ve still been the DC and we would’ve seen the defense continue to regress under him like it did the 2 years prior.
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Let’s see, when was the las time KU had 5 or 6 win? 5 or 6 wins sounds pretty good now.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I’ll agree to disagree with you buddy. One of the recruits that backed out was a 4 star QB from Tennessee, Kale Pick was never given a fair shot at QB. He was a duel threat QB that ran the ball well in 2009 as a back up that Gill for some odd reason never let run. Gill and Chuck Long’s offensive plan vs NDSU cost us the game with run up the middle twice and then pass. Pick,was benched at the half of that game after mustering 3 points but we had a missed FG and a tipped ball that lead to a pick in the end zone. Pick actually moved the ball better than Webb, who in the second half got 0 points. Webb speaking statically is arguably the best QB since Ressing but who knows how Pick could’ve faired if given more time after all benching a first year starter at the half baring 3 or 4 turnovers just seems stupid to most folks.
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I also wonder what would’ve happen if Bill Young would’ve stay. He’s honestly not done too well since leaving after the orange bowl but man the last 3 or 4 defenses he had here were solid and a couple of those years flat out great.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 That’s because, of on top of his salary, he had an “all you can eat buffet” clause in his contract and no local restaurateur would allow his hiring.
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@nuleafjhawk One of the first questions we discussed in my first year law school Contracts class was based on his allegedly “rather sizeable son”.
He said, if his son went to the all-you-can-eat buffet that had no hours of service posted, how long could he continue to eat? Could he stay all day? Through both lunch and dinner? Force the restaurant to stay open as he consumed their vittles?
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@nuleafjhawk That’s just an insane statement. - -So what your saying is your one of the ones more concerned about Maningo’s weight then his coaching ability. - I could give a rats ass about coach Mangino - -had no effect on how he coached - -mercy. - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 I think you’re related to my wife. Neither of you gets my warped sense of humor. And just for the record, I was one of the few who wanted him to stay.
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nuleafjhawk said:
@jayballer54 I think you’re related to my wife. Neither of you gets my warped sense of humor. And just for the record, I was one of the few who wanted him to stay.
I love your warped sense of humor! But I think Jayballer is right, you must be slightly insane, but so am I, and I’ve got the papers to prove it. (ex sox announcer jimmy pearsall quote)
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@jayballer54 I do not have your confidence that Mangino’s weight had no effect on his coaching. It is a proven fact, like it or not, that persons who are obese face a significant amount of discrimination socially. I have a hard time believing that testosterone-laden adolescent potential recruits, so focused on their own fitness and development, would all have been unwilling to disregard any negative attitudes toward an overweight coach who was even the subject of at least a few negative media comments by allegedly mature commentators.
And I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that health issues were related to the out-of-control stuff (anger? depression?) that led to his firing.
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nuleafjhawk said:
@jayballer54 I think you’re related to my wife. Neither of you gets my warped sense of humor. And just for the record, I was one of the few who wanted him to stay.
Good , I’m glad you and I both were on the same boat with wanting him to stay - -Mangino was hard but I liked him - -he for sure didn’t take the showboating on the field - but there were some that didn’t want him touching their golden spoon babies that had been babied the entire lives - having anything everything handed to them. - They didn’t want their babies touched handled - which I said - uhh you like him touching your boy - -then your boy has no business playing football - football is CONTACT sport, - did Coach hurt your feelings? - -step on your toes? - not just GIVE you what you wanted or let you display your sportsmanship on the field without consequences?
I know, I know - I don’t need to hear people with their well that’s not why he got fired antics - it was off the field, can’t speak to that, I know ON the field I loved his approach, but NO WAY would he ever come back even if he was asked. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@mayjay Sorry I’m not buying that. - -I don’t think it had anything to do with his Coaching - -plus I think he was a better person to let childish remarks about his weight to depress him or anger issues. - -Depression comes from many, many different scenario’s - I mean never say never but seriously think that had anything to do with it. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I agree with @mayjay on this. Excess weight, or in Mangino’s case morbid obesity, almost always result in negative self image and the resulting consequences he mentioned. Also, it extremely unhealthy and often results in life threatening conditions. I lost 25 pounds this summer (I was somewhat heavier than I should be but nothing excessive) and I can tell you that I feel now a lot better physically and mentally. Last but not least, being that overweight sends a negative message to the players about physical conditioning; you will notice that most coaches look pretty fit.
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@JayHawkFanToo understand, but there can be all kinds of reasons for the over weight. - the Number one being -over active thyroid a very strong possibility, my mom had that and was really overweight. - They can’t help that if that’s the case, I’m sure Coach Mangino was fully aware of it being bad for him health wise. I can see where it could be negative as far as the recruits goes, My biggest issue I guess in reality was - yes the cheap shots some people would say about him - -and in that respect I said wasn’t effecting his Coaching, just making those people look really bad - they talking smack and him doing pretty decent with what he had to work with. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I like Coach Mangino and I thought he got a raw deal with the way he was fired. However, it would be naive to state as a fact that his weight did not affect his coaching. Contemporaneous stories appear to indicate it did.
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@JayHawkFanToo @jayballer54 I was focusing more on the impression recruits might have of him, and whether they should have or not is irrelevant.
The only people who ever tried to bully me were football players, and it was based on weight (all of 10 to 15 lbs). Fortunately, I won them over with my charm and quick wit. Actually, I had friends on the team who helped make it clear that the subject was out of line.
But Mangino was dealing with kids whose friends were not Mangino’s friends. They were likely, I think, to make lots of negative comments about him to Mangino’s targets, and cracks about what KU might be like. Speculation, perhaps, but we have heard adults do it (how many posts here have mentioned HCBS’s weight as setting a bad example?). Hard to imagine kids considering other options might not be exposed to that negativity.
Like it or not, morbidly obese people face an uphill battle to be accepted. Whether due to physical, genetic, or emotional factors is irrelevant to this discussion, which is only whether his weight could have affected his coaching. I can’t see how it would not have.
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@JayHawkFanToo Could be Something we will never know. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@mayjay I hear what your saying, and understand - just another example of how sad and pathetic society is. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I personally think that whatever a coach’s perceived flaw, it is largely ignored when he is winning, and it is highly focused upon when he is losing.
I always think of Tom Coughlin. Not a players’ coach. When he was winning, his disciplinary style of coaching was celebrated. When he lost, he was attacked for being to strict. Then he supposedly became more of a players’ coach. And that was criticized when he lost. We saw the same dynamic here. When Mangino was fired, we brought it a supposed players’ coach in Turner Gill; then flipped the script to Weis. But that wasn’t the direct reason he was fired.
With Mangino, his boorish attitude with boosters and administration was his ultimate downfall, because petty little non-football types were offended. At the first opportunity, the sharks circled and took him out. He didn’t create a depth of loyalty. I have very good info (and I rarely say that) – very good info – that the Mangino deal was a pure, unadulterated witch hunt.
Back on the fat thing, it’s not unreasonable for a recruit to wonder why a coach is focused on conditioning, when he looks like a zeppelin with really short arms. It’s called being a hypocrite. But when you’re winning, that is irrelevant because the coach “knows what he is doing.” It’s really that simple. When you’re winning, it’s easier to use the “I’m the coach, you’re the player” logic. When you’re losing, credibility wanes. Build it and they will come. And if you have a negative attitude with boosters and administration, and don’t at least create non-enemies, you can’t survive without winning. At the first sign of trouble, though, you’re vulnerable.
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@HighEliteMajor Couldn’t of said it better - -well said – ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Belicheck is another classic example. Complete curmudgeon, but the Patriots win a lot so he isn’t going anywhere.
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Over/under that Beaty stays?
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@cragarhawk
He’s staying
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sigh
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@HighEliteMajor Couldn’t agree more, winning is all that matters unfortunately. Mangino was a perfectionist and a an asshole from my sources that played for him but they all said their HS coach was tougher to deal with. He too was highly successful. At least we ain’t Baylor and Penn State with sickening issues they’ve had. I think we saw the the same coach is mean crap with Frank Martin at KSU. It was fine when they made an elite 8 but terrible when they were preseason top 5 only to squeak into the NCAAs. They basically forced out the best they’ve had in the last 30 years because according to my KSU guys he was too hard on Will Spradling.
