Fire Beatty. Fire him now.
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Those cops tackle much better than KU players. I wonder if they have any eligibility left.
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Itâs Beaty, from the grammar police.
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Mangino for coach! He wasnât the classiest of people either, but to do what he did here was one of the most underrated coaching jobs of all time.
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@wissox Iâm sorry, but absolutely not. Mangino was overrated as a coach. He came to KU as a supposed offensive genius, but it took him 6 years to finally have a good offense.
His Big 12 W-L was also horrible when he faces a very weak Big 12 schedule on a near annual basis. The Big 12 North was hot garbage in the mid 2000âs and he had plenty of years where he never dealt with OU or Texas and had the weak half of the South and still finished 18 games under .500 in Big 12 play. The Big 12 is much more difficult now than it was back then, and Mangino also wouldnât have the luxury of 4 cupcakes in nonconference like he did then.
Iâll say right now that I think Glen Mason was the better coach of the two.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Well put. I donât pay that much attention to KU football so any comments I make have to be taken with a grain of salt!
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@wissox The most telling thing to me about the perception of Mangino nationally was that there were no major programs interested in him in 2007 or 2008 when his value was at its peak.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 @wissox Iâd take Mangino over any of fools weâve hired since him, hell Terry Allen was better . Mangino was mediocre for sure but he still one of the best coaches weâve ever had.
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kjayhawks said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 @wissox Iâd take Mangino over any of fools weâve hired since him, hell Terry Allen was better . Mangino was mediocre for sure but he still one of the best coaches weâve ever had.
Y ou and me both - Iâd take him in a minute, but there is no way in Hell he would every come back to this pile of warm doo. â -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@kjayhawks I really wouldnât at this point because I donât think he would do much to improve KU with the current scheduling set heâd have to deal with now. He might get KU to 2-3 wins per year which is basically what Gill and Weis were doing.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 heâs not gonna come back of course but Iâm bet he wouldâve averaged 5 or 6 wins in the time span he was gone. I bet he wins 5 games in Gills first year, one other thing to consider is we had a solid recruiting class that fell apart when he resigned.
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@kjayhawks No way Mangino wins 5 in 2010. KU had no QB because Mangino never developed a back up/successor for Reesing. Thatâs why Kerry Meier was officially the back up QB for 3 years despite also being a top receiving target for 2.5 of those years.
The other issue is KUâs defense was still going to be crap that year because Bowen wouldâve still been the DC and we wouldâve seen the defense continue to regress under him like it did the 2 years prior.
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Letâs see, when was the las time KU had 5 or 6 win? 5 or 6 wins sounds pretty good now.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Iâll agree to disagree with you buddy. One of the recruits that backed out was a 4 star QB from Tennessee, Kale Pick was never given a fair shot at QB. He was a duel threat QB that ran the ball well in 2009 as a back up that Gill for some odd reason never let run. Gill and Chuck Longâs offensive plan vs NDSU cost us the game with run up the middle twice and then pass. Pick,was benched at the half of that game after mustering 3 points but we had a missed FG and a tipped ball that lead to a pick in the end zone. Pick actually moved the ball better than Webb, who in the second half got 0 points. Webb speaking statically is arguably the best QB since Ressing but who knows how Pick couldâve faired if given more time after all benching a first year starter at the half baring 3 or 4 turnovers just seems stupid to most folks.
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I also wonder what wouldâve happen if Bill Young wouldâve stay. Heâs honestly not done too well since leaving after the orange bowl but man the last 3 or 4 defenses he had here were solid and a couple of those years flat out great.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Thatâs because, of on top of his salary, he had an âall you can eat buffetâ clause in his contract and no local restaurateur would allow his hiring.
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@nuleafjhawk One of the first questions we discussed in my first year law school Contracts class was based on his allegedly ârather sizeable sonâ.
He said, if his son went to the all-you-can-eat buffet that had no hours of service posted, how long could he continue to eat? Could he stay all day? Through both lunch and dinner? Force the restaurant to stay open as he consumed their vittles?
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@nuleafjhawk Thatâs just an insane statement. - -So what your saying is your one of the ones more concerned about Maningoâs weight then his coaching ability. - I could give a rats ass about coach Mangino - -had no effect on how he coached - -mercy. - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 I think youâre related to my wife. Neither of you gets my warped sense of humor. And just for the record, I was one of the few who wanted him to stay.
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nuleafjhawk said:
@jayballer54 I think youâre related to my wife. Neither of you gets my warped sense of humor. And just for the record, I was one of the few who wanted him to stay.
I love your warped sense of humor! But I think Jayballer is right, you must be slightly insane, but so am I, and Iâve got the papers to prove it. (ex sox announcer jimmy pearsall quote)
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@jayballer54 I do not have your confidence that Manginoâs weight had no effect on his coaching. It is a proven fact, like it or not, that persons who are obese face a significant amount of discrimination socially. I have a hard time believing that testosterone-laden adolescent potential recruits, so focused on their own fitness and development, would all have been unwilling to disregard any negative attitudes toward an overweight coach who was even the subject of at least a few negative media comments by allegedly mature commentators.
And I wouldnât be surprised to learn that health issues were related to the out-of-control stuff (anger? depression?) that led to his firing.
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nuleafjhawk said:
@jayballer54 I think youâre related to my wife. Neither of you gets my warped sense of humor. And just for the record, I was one of the few who wanted him to stay.
Good , Iâm glad you and I both were on the same boat with wanting him to stay - -Mangino was hard but I liked him - -he for sure didnât take the showboating on the field - but there were some that didnât want him touching their golden spoon babies that had been babied the entire lives - having anything everything handed to them. - They didnât want their babies touched handled - which I said - uhh you like him touching your boy - -then your boy has no business playing football - football is CONTACT sport, - did Coach hurt your feelings? - -step on your toes? - not just GIVE you what you wanted or let you display your sportsmanship on the field without consequences?
I know, I know - I donât need to hear people with their well thatâs not why he got fired antics - it was off the field, canât speak to that, I know ON the field I loved his approach, but NO WAY would he ever come back even if he was asked. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@mayjay Sorry Iâm not buying that. - -I donât think it had anything to do with his Coaching - -plus I think he was a better person to let childish remarks about his weight to depress him or anger issues. - -Depression comes from many, many different scenarioâs - I mean never say never but seriously think that had anything to do with it. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I agree with @mayjay on this. Excess weight, or in Manginoâs case morbid obesity, almost always result in negative self image and the resulting consequences he mentioned. Also, it extremely unhealthy and often results in life threatening conditions. I lost 25 pounds this summer (I was somewhat heavier than I should be but nothing excessive) and I can tell you that I feel now a lot better physically and mentally. Last but not least, being that overweight sends a negative message to the players about physical conditioning; you will notice that most coaches look pretty fit.
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@JayHawkFanToo understand, but there can be all kinds of reasons for the over weight. - the Number one being -over active thyroid a very strong possibility, my mom had that and was really overweight. - They canât help that if thatâs the case, Iâm sure Coach Mangino was fully aware of it being bad for him health wise. I can see where it could be negative as far as the recruits goes, My biggest issue I guess in reality was - yes the cheap shots some people would say about him - -and in that respect I said wasnât effecting his Coaching, just making those people look really bad - they talking smack and him doing pretty decent with what he had to work with. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I like Coach Mangino and I thought he got a raw deal with the way he was fired. However, it would be naive to state as a fact that his weight did not affect his coaching. Contemporaneous stories appear to indicate it did.
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@JayHawkFanToo @jayballer54 I was focusing more on the impression recruits might have of him, and whether they should have or not is irrelevant.
The only people who ever tried to bully me were football players, and it was based on weight (all of 10 to 15 lbs). Fortunately, I won them over with my charm and quick wit. Actually, I had friends on the team who helped make it clear that the subject was out of line.
But Mangino was dealing with kids whose friends were not Manginoâs friends. They were likely, I think, to make lots of negative comments about him to Manginoâs targets, and cracks about what KU might be like. Speculation, perhaps, but we have heard adults do it (how many posts here have mentioned HCBSâs weight as setting a bad example?). Hard to imagine kids considering other options might not be exposed to that negativity.
Like it or not, morbidly obese people face an uphill battle to be accepted. Whether due to physical, genetic, or emotional factors is irrelevant to this discussion, which is only whether his weight could have affected his coaching. I canât see how it would not have.
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@JayHawkFanToo Could be Something we will never know. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@mayjay I hear what your saying, and understand - just another example of how sad and pathetic society is. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I personally think that whatever a coachâs perceived flaw, it is largely ignored when he is winning, and it is highly focused upon when he is losing.
I always think of Tom Coughlin. Not a playersâ coach. When he was winning, his disciplinary style of coaching was celebrated. When he lost, he was attacked for being to strict. Then he supposedly became more of a playersâ coach. And that was criticized when he lost. We saw the same dynamic here. When Mangino was fired, we brought it a supposed playersâ coach in Turner Gill; then flipped the script to Weis. But that wasnât the direct reason he was fired.
With Mangino, his boorish attitude with boosters and administration was his ultimate downfall, because petty little non-football types were offended. At the first opportunity, the sharks circled and took him out. He didnât create a depth of loyalty. I have very good info (and I rarely say that) â very good info â that the Mangino deal was a pure, unadulterated witch hunt.
Back on the fat thing, itâs not unreasonable for a recruit to wonder why a coach is focused on conditioning, when he looks like a zeppelin with really short arms. Itâs called being a hypocrite. But when youâre winning, that is irrelevant because the coach âknows what he is doing.â Itâs really that simple. When youâre winning, itâs easier to use the âIâm the coach, youâre the playerâ logic. When youâre losing, credibility wanes. Build it and they will come. And if you have a negative attitude with boosters and administration, and donât at least create non-enemies, you canât survive without winning. At the first sign of trouble, though, youâre vulnerable.
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@HighEliteMajor Couldnât of said it better - -well said â ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Belicheck is another classic example. Complete curmudgeon, but the Patriots win a lot so he isnât going anywhere.
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Over/under that Beaty stays?
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@cragarhawk
Heâs staying
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sigh
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@HighEliteMajor Couldnât agree more, winning is all that matters unfortunately. Mangino was a perfectionist and a an asshole from my sources that played for him but they all said their HS coach was tougher to deal with. He too was highly successful. At least we ainât Baylor and Penn State with sickening issues theyâve had. I think we saw the the same coach is mean crap with Frank Martin at KSU. It was fine when they made an elite 8 but terrible when they were preseason top 5 only to squeak into the NCAAs. They basically forced out the best theyâve had in the last 30 years because according to my KSU guys he was too hard on Will Spradling.
