Yes, this is the worst Kansas has ever been in football
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I don’t care about how much money we supposedly lose or what conference the basketball team winds up in. Drop. Football. Now.
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@nuleafjhawk Basketball will no longer be a blue blood if football is dropped and it will have a much more negative impact on the university than the football team being crappy.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Why do you believe that to be true? What positive impact does a terrible football team have on an incredible basketball program?
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@nuleafjhawk Look what’s happening to UConn in basketball now that they are no longer in a power conference. They are quickly losing relevance in basketball.
Dropping football means no longer in a major conference. That means reduced TV exposure which will have a very negative impact on recruiting. Instead of landing 5 and 4 star players, KU would landing mostly 3 star players with occasional 4 star players.
I’d much rather be embarrassed about the football team sucking than being embarrassed that KU quit football completely.
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You can’t drop football, don’t be crazy.
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stoptheflop said:
I’m curious about the attendance today. All I could see on television was the bowl and student section, which I estimated to be about 2,000. I don’t pay any attention to the announced attendance. I paid for a ticket for my daughter, but she’s at home today.
Article in the Star stated paid attendance as 21,797. As I noticed toward the end of the fourth quarter, it looked as if everyone in the main sections below the pressbox had left. I saw all the blue and realized those were empty seats, the blue seatbacks.
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nuleafjhawk said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Why do you believe that to be true? What positive impact does a terrible football team have on an incredible basketball program?
Self said back at the last CR seismic shudder that he is not a mid-major coach. If KU drops football, it would have to leave the Big 12, it would never gain an invitation to Big Ten or any other P5 conference, and Bill Self would leave. No football would have an even bigger negative impact on the university and basketball program than a horrible football program (which might still be negative enough to prevent the university moving to the Big Ten).
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That would be great. Look forward to it. Hope the research is methodologically sound. I loved football once. Would comeback to it if it were empirically verified safe in reproducible studies.
Have known a number surgeons that were pretty monomaniacal. Would be most impressive if the guy were. a neurosurgeon and asserted such.
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BShark said:
You can’t drop football, don’t be crazy.
I could in a blink.Zero loss. Football has seemed a net loser.
Suggestion: all the elite basketball schools should form a non football conference.
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I would really love to see track and field elevated to replace football. It’s a way better sport.
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…and so is soccer in the rest of the world but in this country football is still king. Funny thing is that football might not die because of the obvious medical risk but by the actions of the millionaire football players that feel they can antagonize the fan base with impunity and in the process kill the proverbial goose that laid the golden eggs.
Sometimes good things are the unexpected result of unlikely events. Capone went to jail, not for all the murders and other major crimes he committed, but for tax evasion. Likewise, football might come to an end, not because of the medical damage resulting from the brutality of the sport, but for the chutzpah of the players that make millions and who fail to realize that without football a fair number of them would be minimum wage workers.
Many reasonable people feel that boxing is an anachronism in today’s world and has no place in an evolved society and yet, we have come up with an even more violent form of the sport in the form of Mixed Martial Arts or Ultimate fighting. One has to wonder if we, as a society, have evolved or regressed.
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Football is king? Kneeling rich guys in cleats are going to bring down the brain damage game?
Me thinks it goes deeper.
And me thinks you sound a wee bit reminsicient of those colonists that were telling Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Madison, Hamilton, etc., “OMG! We can’t start our own country! We’ve been a colony for two centuries. Everything is set in stone. Nothing can change, guys, unless the British aristocracy gets too much syphillus and in an insane fit frees us. We can’t free ourselves, no way. A new country where life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness replaces bowing to a king and taxation without representation? Fuggedabout it you bunch of dreamers. I’m moving to Canada, where you can still curl in peace. You’ll get us all killed by second rate English generals.”
Um…
Track and field has been around for a couple thousand years! Football for little over a century. Summer olympics emphasize it. Almost every high school and university in America has a quarter mile track, jump and pole vault pits, and shot and discus aprons. Many argue we’re turning into a third world country economically and politically. Track and field is cheap. The Greeks competed naked. No uniforms needed. Just a colored sash. Some shoes. Piece of cake for a third world country. Petro helmets and petro pads and petro cleats and petro mouthpieces bare minimum. Outfitting a modern football player is almost as bad as suiting up a private in the Big Red One for some night fighting on an oil dome.
Football got a big underwrite from the robber barons looking for a way to pound a bunch of free men into soldiers willing to fight for empire expansion and exploitation after we false flagged the moribund Spanish Empire and took all their sugar cane islands (Puerto Rico, Cuba, a bunch of little rocks in the Caribbean, Guam, the Philippines and a bunch of other little rocks in the Pacific), pinched Hawaii from a hereditary King, or Queen, and a year later partitioned of American Samoa along with the Germans and Brits. Add them all together and we created the American sugar trust (aka Dominoe) and the maritime lines of communication needed to peddle enough Standard tins in the Americas, and Asia, to enable us to finish the Darien Ditch and call ourselves an empire deserving of a privately-owned central bank debt/currency cartel secured by Federal income tax in 1913-1914.
Football was only king as long as the robber barons wanted to pump it up with subsidies, broadcast monopolies, and controlled gaming, so that they could conform to factory protocols, administrate some colonials with a firm hand (and some water boarding), and field armies with some swag.
Well, guess what? The robber barons moved the industries to Asia. The colonies administrate themselves now. And the armies are no longer huge citizen armies. They are all volunteer and may soon migrate heavily to robots and AI systems. The swag is still needed, but the culture’s institutions are now so heavily militarized that we hardly need football to ready young men’s and women’s minds for soldiering. And their bodies? How many special forces do we really need? So much of the rest of military employment can be done by soft bodies and techie minds that, well, ballet might be enough to toughen them for the task these days. TV can shape a kid to volunteer without need for a coach figure. Oh, and the TV networks fragged from internet competition. Not slighting our guys and gals in uniform right now. Talkin’ 'bout the near future.
NWO baby. Boys and girls with head chips and embedded medical systems and limb augmentation tech that together can make a woman as formidable as a man in combat, given the weapons of today.Women may even make BETTER augmented soldiers, because they arguably have a higher tolerance for pain and privation due to millenia of suffering child birth and giving up the milk to the hungry young. Not certain. But maybe. Who needs football!!!
Of course, football CAN EASILY be jettisoned in USA. Just gotta wait to burn off some sunk costs, and for the next wave of Plunge Protection Team untraceable bailout monies to underwrite the migration from brain damage ball to track and field.
Heck, to really take identity politics the last ten yards to the goal line, TPTB actually may want to frag football players into victim groups of linemen, backs and specialty teamers and atomize the whole sport so that attack adds can better mobilize and energize and optimize into a winning constituency.
This is the brave new world, @JayHawkFanToo.
The NWO and its Deep State wants to break down families, and religions, and parties and online communities. Gender bending and transforming is now. They want to break down anything that might coalesce into a credible opposition. You know that!!!
We are talking Borg-ism here.
All human organizations are to be broken down into individuals and then connected not with coaches and huddles, but with in-head chips and microwave communications disseminating at least the illusion of orchestrated trauma events chased with pleasure and suggestion.
Football??? Its so 20th Century, dude.
TPTB can simulate a football season with FX, or robots, or some combination, much cheaper and easier than with bio units that are head injuries waiting to happen and class action suits looming.
Track and field is ideally suited to the 21st and 22rd Centuries.
Everyone in Track and Field is an individual competing as an individual with points tallied independently into a team score.
This IS the NWO baby!
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All that nonsense and still could not refute that in America football is still king. I don’t watch football that much and even less so now, but it is silly to argue that football is not the number one sport in our country, whether you like it or not.
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@jaybate-1-0 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/im-brain-scientist-let-son-play-football-135727314.html
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This is important. It’s a start. Thanks for digging it out!
Here are my initial thoughts.
This guy has thought it through and presents relevant, but apparently still inconclusive evidence. He at least raises doubt that football is a trigger of brain damage in NFL football players.
I am willing to revisit this.
I dislike disliking football, but am quite capable of doing so to save brains.
This guy offers evidence doubting the positive results based on methodological issues and sampling bias. Good!
He also asserts research indicating NFL players are NOT showing signs of high levels of brain damage, which at least means his kid will be safe in the NFL, but he apparently found nothing on little league. He also does not explain what is right about the methodology and sampling techniques of the NFL research. What if the NFL research is masking a bias? What if most of the concussed players with brain damage under 21 are quitting the game before the NFL? What if the brain is most susceptible to BD under 21? I am all for researching these questions!
Wouldn’t it be great if it were found that football and boxing head trauma actually improved brain function. Teachers in schools could just have students wear helmets in class and bang them as they walk by lecturing? We never know what we’ll learn when we start really looking skeptically.
We know the Fellow is a voice alone among experts by his own admission. This can mean many things and skepticism helps assess all possibilities.
He certainly stands to benefit from expert witness testimony for the NFL and all other organizations needing an expert witness who questions brain damage from football. But then so do those that testify on the other side. So we need to be as skeptical of him as them. And we need to thank this man for courageously coming forward.
In this era of science and fake news about, it is not enough to reject it all as lies. We have to restore strong skepticism about all scientific findings, because of grant asymmetry between huge granting for original research and modest granting for testing replicability of original study findings. Many positive findings are reputedly being found to be unreproducible. Reasons are apparently varied but concerning. Skepticism is the most logical path. Reject nothing by knee jerk. Doubt everything.
Scepticism about science is good for science (especially science about big money sports with huge cultural significance that bad guys might wish to use as paths of cultural destabilization and surreptitious revenue capture) and all ethical scientists should welcome strong scepticism about all positive results. Scientific scepticism. It’s scien-tastic!
The finest scientist I know well says he has just never found Einstein’s theories very “understandable” and so he remains sceptical of Einsteinian explanations that are not understandable, I.e., as reliably being actually how things work, no matter how often predictions using the incomprehensible explanation prove accurate. He exemplifies with a gas giant in another dimension raising and lowering the sun once every 24 hours. It makes an utterly accurate, precise and repeatable prediction. But it makes no sense and is verifiable only in its effects, not in the mechanism of its effects. He even is skeptical of his own intellect. He says Einstein’s theories could just be above his ability to understand them. But he adds, he hasn’t had much trouble understanding other scientific theories of complex phenomena, so he is also sceptical of Einstein’s General Relativity. He says he doesn’t talk about it much, because he doesn’t need to use General Relativity for anything. He says General Relativity is so far best for making predictions to vindicate General Relativity; that it has been superb at that; and that sort of auto-verification of a theorized reality leads him to more skepticism. He says scientists do not use General Relativity for much of anything except investigating General Relativity. Scientists use Newtonian physics and quantum mechanics all the time. Handy tools for operating in the realms of the universe he has studied. His is an interesting, humble, profound scepticism. He wouldn’t think of discouraging work on Einstein. He just says he can’t understand it and is open to have it cleared up anytime.
Back to the brain tech in neuropathology.
It’s immaterial that he lets his kid play, of course. Many parents do stupid things and let their emotions cloud their thinking about what they permit their children to do. Ask any parent if they notice this about other parents, not about themselves, and most will recall many dubious choices by other parents. This guy even recalls being something of a dope himself prior to his recent research.
Science is about discovering new things and embracing them while retaining healthy skepticism about the meaning and implications of the new knowledge.
I’m skeptically ready for more on this subject of brain damage for college and under football.
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Wouldn’t it be great if it were found that football and boxing head trauma actually improved brain function. Teachers in schools could just have students wear helmets in class and bang them as they walk by lecturing? We never know what we’ll learn when we start really looking skeptically.
LMAO. Hilarious.
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Someone on twitter yesterday was able to list all of the schools we’ve beat this decade in one tweet. Granted they had the new 240 character limit, but that’s still pretty ridiculous. and they didn’t just list the school abbreviations.
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Need to keep recruiting the 3-4star kids. Then you expect things out of them as GROWN 21-22yr old upperclassmen. Come on, Beaty is trying to do it right, by recruiting high school kids, and a juco kid or transfer with a lot of eligibility is OK too.
But every piece of conventional wisdom says you let HIS recruits become upperclassmen in HIS system, then judge the results.
AND, people will hate hearing this, but because of the scholarship athlete dump-off by Weis (poor grades, etc), Beaty was in a deep hole. So, many many of the ones who could have been upperclassmen now are simply not here.
Clearly we need more than just Dorrance, Wise, Dineen, Sims.
And you also have to have a little faith that a TX or Louisiana 3-4 star is better than a KS 0,1,2 star. But you wont see that qualitative edge if that 3-4star is playing as a frosh against a grown-up 0-2star upperclassman, will you?
Always thought Beaty needed AT LEAST 5 YRS to start seeing more than 3 wins. But KU alums like to bitch, so keep at it. Not this one.
I agree with above guy who said Perkins and Gill started this, and Weis was no help. Trying to copy Snyder was the worst thing Weis could have done.
I tip my hat to KU Admin and some of their WmsFund alums (who have nothing better to do, apparently), as they have found a way to up-end football conventional wisdom, making this football game harder than it is, and think by pulling the plug every 2-3yrs on a coach, is going to give them something better? than a half-baked product 2yrs down the line? No way, KU is reaping what it sowed, that’s all.
Go watch basketball, NFL, and leave Beaty to keep collecting his 3-4 star guys until there are enough of them to field 70-80% of the roster as experienced upperclassmen (just think how long that % will take to attain), and you have your actual timeline.
And if KU Admin and alums are that stupid about it, then you only are getting what you deserve.
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@JayHawkFanToo I have an OU alum working on our house as a contractor, and his view of OU is that their defense “absolutely sucks”. Its all relative. Baker Mayfield goes for 598yds passing vs OSU, but its a shootout due to bad D, possibly.
I’d say KU’s D tries, but gets little rest because the O cannot produce. So our D stats are literally the worst. And the O is just too talent limited. As is the defensive secondary especially.
Definitely nothing pretty for KU starting with the 2nd game of the season. But there’s a lot of reasons. You can blame Beaty, but look what he got dealt. He still cant see out of the deep rabbit hole he’s in. And we’re right there with him. We dont have the roster yet to generate B12 wins. A critical mass of 3rd and 4th yr 3-4star recruits on both sides of the ball. Just not there yet, not really close.
So of course its pathetic to watch. So lets fire the builder when he’s not even halfway done with the walls, not to mention start putting a roof on it.
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Football number 1 sport in US? Of course it is. Follow the $. Why do you think the networks, who have a HUGE stake in NFL advertising dollars have simply decided to not-inflame the public by showing the natl anthem (& the kneeling). A 13% drop in ratings is billions of ad dollars. Board-room decisions get made, man. Now people have to read the ESPN ticker across the bottom if there is any news about player(s) kneeling. That’s a far cry than instantly inflamming millions by showing it live on TV. What a far cry from 2 yrs ago when that Chicago guy in some uniform sang a booming rendition of the anthem before a Bears game. People wept, and were brought to tears, I recall.
Concussions? Too much money at stake for paradigm shift about football, other than individual players making their own decisions, like choosing to retire early, etc. And now? A few years into the whole concussion issue? We are watching those now who evidently are playing AFTER making an assumably “informed” decision. In other words, they are playing because they want to.
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DoubleDD said:
I wouldn’t bash Beaty. He’s fixing a mess that was left for him. Winning is hard. You can have all the talent in the world. Yet if you don’t know how to win then it becomes a huge process. I remember when the Great Bill Snyder came to Kstate. He and the Wildcats played nothing but cupcakes in the non-con. I think he was trying to get his kids used to winning some games. Maybe Beaty should do the same thing?
The problem is that KU can’t even beat the so-called cupcakes on a regular basis, or Beaty would have more than 3 victories in 3 years.
Zenger was supposed to be a football guy, but look at his hires: People point to the mess Beaty inherited, but that mess was left by Zenger’s first major hire. And Zenger’s hire as women’s BB coach is 2-44 against B12 competition.
Zenger cannot be allowed another hire in any sport!
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And in my Billy Mayes Oxi-Clean voice once again, “Wait there’s more”. Kansas now has become the first power 5 conference team to have 3 straight 10 loss seasons. Can we make it 4 next year?
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kjayhawks said:
And in my Billy Mayes Oxi-Clean voice once again, “Wait there’s more”. Kansas now has become the first power 5 conference team to have 3 straight 10 loss seasons. Can we make it 4 next year?
KU basketball has 2 streaks of note, 13 straight conference titles and a record 28 consecutive NCAA tourney appearances.
How many more streaks of an infamous sort will the football team achieve before they are through? This one you mention, and consecutive road losses, – surely, there must be more.
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Most former coaches still on the payroll?
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@JayHawkFanToo When do those expire, anyway?
I wonder if there is a stat for most consecutive 1st and goals without a touchdown?
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When I checked Friday, the line on the OU game was 37 pts. We lost by 38 and managed to blow many opportunities on offense. OU couldn’t get going until the second half, when we rolled over and played dead.
Oh, yay, now maybe we will get investigated for being intentionally bad.
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I am not sure but we might be adding another one soon. KU should advertise the position as having the best retirement plan in the sport.
