Josh Jackson
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@Lulufulu I’m with ya on Vick and JJ.
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It really isn’t fair trying to make exact apples-to-apples comparison between Wigs and Josh. We have a very different team and offense now versus when Wigs was here.
It is clear that Josh has quite a few more moves than Wigs had. Though Wigs was a bit more athletic.
I think Wigs would have done much better with our current offense. Having the 4 out - 1 in would help clear out the post area for his drives.
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@drgnslayr for whatever reason…offense around him–or playing to save the merchandise, Wiggs didn’t seem to engage as aggressively as Josh does.
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@drgnslayr But what I’m noticing is the heart and doggedness and competitive fire difference between the two… not sure wigs ever had as much as JJ. even when I watch him now as a timberwolf, he comes across as somewhat lackadaisical at times. And yes, the 82 game schlepathon that is the Nation Boring Association does not lend itself to consistent effort.
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I think he did. Self wanted him to drive, drive, drive. And he tried, tried, tried. But he would often lose the ball on his drive or he would get fouled. He didn’t finish well (usually).
Josh isn’t being pushed as hard to drive. And he is just one piece around two other scoring guards. Wigs was surrounded by rookies and was asked to carry the load.
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@approxinfinity said:
I’m bothered by a fear I have that people have replaced morals with legality and believe that disobeying laws makes someone bad, while doing only legal things makes someone good.
Well put. And to put the final bizarre twist on top, too many people are far too comfortable looking for loopholes in the law, bending the law, circumventing it when the opportunity presents, or flat out assuming it doesn’t apply to them.
Hope i haven’t offended any anarchists on here…
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@bskeet said:
too many people are far too comfortable looking for loopholes in the law, bending the law, circumventing it when the opportunity presents, or flat out assuming it doesn’t apply to them.
Including some people in authority…
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@elpoyo JJ is the best player since Manning, imo. Remember when certain posters last year were saying that Coach Self couldn’t coach OADs?
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@bskeet @ParisHawk amen, both of you.
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@elpoyo Dood? That is NOT how you spell that!!! I have to suspect that Mr Elpoyo never set foot in a KU classroom unless perhaps it was as a janitor.
Maybe mutton busting at KSU or more likely jackass caretaker at misery …Either place-troll city 
JMO
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@drgnslayr Wiggs was more athletic but I think Josh uses his athleticism more effectively, thus he is over all more effective.
@KUSTEVE That Paul Pierce was awfully good. I would rank him over JJ. But not many more in the convo.
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I think Wiggins would have done a lot better on this team and his athleticism would have really shined. However, from a purely basketball perspective, 3 things set Josh apart for me:
- His ball handling skills are slightly better than Wiggins so he is able to drive in traffic
- He goes hard to the rim to destroy it (and has missed some dunks because of that) while Wiggins settled for too many finger rolls
- Biggest difference is the court vision and passing. This is one thing for me that sticks out every game. He just knows where to pass the ball the second he touches it. Wiggins wasn’t near the passer that Josh is.
Other than this, Wiggins did carry that team as a frosh so I wouldn’t undermine his capabilities. I don’t think Josh would have been able to showcase all he does on the 2014 team either.
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@KUSTEVE JJ is the kind of player that we use against Calipari’s ability to coach and develop players. JJ was going to be a star no matter where he played and do the things he’s doing now. Had he stayed home at Michigan St., he might be averaging 20+ ppg and MSU might be more than a bubble team right now.
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The biggest difference between Wiggins and Jackson is their mentality. JJ is an alpha dog and Wiggins is not. Wiggins is the more physically gifted player, better shooter, better defender, better athlete, but his reserved nature meant that he rarely took over games. Jackson is an alpha dog, he shows his emotions, he talks trash, and he has taken over games at times when necessary. He’s not a great shooter (he’s going to be a volume scorer in the NBA one day), he’s a very good defender but not quite as good as Wiggins who should’ve been All-Big 12, and he’s not quite as athletic as Wiggins. However, if you put Jackson on that 2013-14 team, he probably averages 22+ ppg because that’s his mentality. He has a scorers mentality, but he’s aware enough to know that he doesn’t have to do it all this year and willingly defers to Mason at times.
I could also see Jackson becoming the bigger star over Wiggins in the NBA because of his mentality.
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Spot on.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 One could EASILY say that JJ has totally replaced Perry Ellis, but yet 6’8 JJ seems to be more versatile than 6’8 Ellis.
I know its an imperfect comparison.
JJ > Wiggs due to competitive fire. Alpha dog, agreed with that said above.
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@drgnslayr “Perfection” reserved for John Calipari, you said…I agree. He was 75-0 in Rupp until this season when UCLA and KU visited Rupp. Now 75-2…
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@ralster he might have more fire, but Wiggs can score a ton more!
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@ralster Not quite 75-0, but pretty darn good.
http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/statistics/arenarupparena.html
2 losses in 14, 1 in 13 and 12 also. But a 40 game home court win streak is in there as well.
I believe the current longes home court win streak stands at 41 games. (Neither UK or KU unfortunately)
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@Crimsonorblue22 he had a couple of nice scoring games when he was here, but I will take Josh’s attitude and competitiveness any day of the week over Wiggins.
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@HawkChamp a couple?
Your choice. Wish he would’ve played better today!
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@Crimsonorblue22 yes, a couple. The WVU game and at TCU. Nothing else over 30, IIRC
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They’re both nice players. Wiggs team wouldn’t have won the conference without him. May not have even made the dance. The team around Josh team is much better. Josh is much more productive without the ball in his hands. Wiggs is a better shooter and defender. Josh has more desire to win. I think Josh’s motor will get KU further in the tourney, but Wiggins did a hell of a job to keep the streak intact, that team wasn’t any good especially without Embiid. However, had it been the second year of Wiggins, Embiid, and Black together holy crap that would’ve been special!
Josh is a final four motor. Let’s inable him!
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Wiggins broke Manning’s freshman scoring record and still holds it; his average is still higher than Jackson, although Josh still has time to get his average higher.
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@JayHawkFanToo Wiggins was also the #1 option on a team with basically nothing but freshmen and sophomores. JJ is the #2 option on a team loaded with upper classmen. Wiggins should have a higher scoring average than Jackson based on situations. Switch them and JJ averages over 20 ppg on that 2013-14 team and would have likely been a 1st team All American and possibly the NPOY that year.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I really like jj too. His D and throws are really hurting his game. Burton just dominated him on both ends.
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I was/am fairly pissed at JJ from yesterday. He missed two FTs late on a play where if he dunks with two hands it’s an and one. Im not mad Burton got the best of him JJ is a working progress on d, but I was also pissed he didn’t get on the floor a few times like he normally does.
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I like Josh as much as any KU fan, but he is playing as well or even better than expected. Replace Wiggins with Jackson and you will see similar numbers.
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@kjayhawks Self was pretty po’d too
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@JayHawkFanToo I firmly believe JJ puts up better scoring numbers on that 13-14 team than Wiggins did. The reason why is that Wiggins was a subpar ball handler which hurt his ability to create his own shots. That meant that he disappeared too many times when Tharpe struggled because there was nobody to get Wiggins the ball. Ball handling is the one area where JJ is vastly ahead of where Wiggins was as freshman and that ability to create his own shot is why JJ would’ve scored 20+ ppg on that team. I would even go so far to say that JJ could’ve averaged 22-23 ppg on that team.
I do think Wiggins would’ve been an even better fit on this current team than Jackson is because of the roster situation. The reason why Wiggins ball handling was subpar at KU was because he had always played the post prior to KU so putting him as a stretch 4 on this team with his shooting ability would’ve hid his subpar ball handling and made him an even better player on this team than he was on that team.
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@kjayhawks I said yesterday that if I were Self I would tell JJ he only dunks with two hands…he has missed too many one handers that I believe he would have made if he uses 2 hands.
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As I recall, the critique of Wiggins was that he was to unselfish/deferential and passed on shots to a teammate that was open which endeared him to teammates and fans. A more selfish Wiggins could have averaged a lot more. They were/are great Jayhawks with super bright futures ahead of both of them.
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@Hawk8086 100% agree. Still can’t believe Vick missed him on a wide open lob. Darn it the more I think about the simple plays missed, the madder I get lol.
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@JayHawkFanToo That’s why I think that if Wigs and JJ switched which team that played on, both would look even better than they did/do at KU. Being passive was a knock on Wiggins, but he was also a below average ball handler which I think played into his tendencies to pass the ball more than he should have. We know JJ has the shot fake in his arsenal and has utilized quite a bit this year to create his own shot as well as just blowing by defenders who got too close to him on the perimeter.
Just comparing those two side by side as freshmen, I think Wiggins gets the slight nod in just about every category except for ball handling which trickles into scoring
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Both would be nice. Lots of length on a team with the two of them.
