Vick is developing beautifully, but....

  • Comparisons to former proven greats, like BenMac, may have to wait.


    Vick is the FOURTH option on this team!!!

    Can you imagine how much easier he has it than BenMac had it as the #1 option???

    I don’t think Vick has even faced a single double team, or forearm smash!!!

    Vick could become as good.

    But we may not be able to tell it, until he gets to the NBA.

    He may never become the guy they scheme to stop all season, as BenMac experienced his one year on the sacred wood.

  • @jaybate-1.0 Huh ?? I’m at a lost as to what you are trying to convey through your signature blurb ???

    Trump = Likuud

    Hilary = Kadima

    Bernie = Labor *(I get this one!)

    Political co-evolution?

    –jaybate 1

  • @Red.Rooster

    First, let me say it was just a quick thought, not a gem of wisdom resulting from arduous research, okay?

    With the caveats above, I noticed somewhere recently that reputed Trump casino-hotel development client and campaign supporter Sheldon Adelson, who reputedly sewed over $20M into Chicago politics a few days before the election is reputedly a Foundation for Defense of Democracy guy and several of Trump’s appointees and advisors reputedly track to there, also, and the Foundation reputedly has strong ties to Netanyahu and the Likud Party of Israel.

    If that were all true, it might hypothetically, at least partially, explain the extraordinarily bad blood and flight of the Neocons from the Republican Party to ally with their apparently close ideological brethren, the neolibs, already keeping house in the Democratic Party.

    That swift realignment has always puzzled me.

    Further, I keep recalling how Trump conspicuously admonished Hillary in a debate about Netanyahu of Likud not liking her and Obama’s Iran deal.

    I had always thought the Neocon/Neolib team pretty much had all of the US-Israel Lobby’s interest covered. I’m a political amateur, but that was what I had thought. But it now appears there may have been a schism that paralleled the schism in Israel’s two major right-leaning parties–Likud and Kadima.

    For those naive as me before I searched for Israel’s major parties, Kadima is reputedly a right leaning party that entertains a dual state solution to the Israel-Palestine problem, while Likud is reputedly farther right and favors a single state solution resulting in just Israel. Some Jewish board rats may be able to be more accurate than me, but that is what I understand so far. Finally there is a once left-leaning Labor Party, something like our old New Deal Democratic Party, that has lately moved to center, or even center-right. The Labor Party entertains a two state solution also.

    It occurred to me that maybe our Democratic Party currently is polarized by Bernie and his Labor Party equivalent, plus Hillary and her Neocon-neolib base that are sort of equivalent to Kadima. And that maybe Hillary and her base have an agenda in conformity Kadima an many issues, and that Trump and his base have an agenda in conformity with Likud on many issues.

    The above might help explain the differing approaches to relationships with, say, Putin, Syria, Iran, China and Japan, and the seemingly shared approaches to many other issues.

    And I’m not suggesting any conspiracy here either. As you know I think conspiracies are mostly for suckers, and in cases where they may not be, find conspiracy investigations best left to the proper authorities.

    What I am hypothesizing here is that the long term above board intertwining of the political economies of the two countries maybe having the effect causing the locuses of the two nations’ political parties to converge into similarity due to similar strategic dynamics. Distilled a bit, American political parties are beginning to recast themselves more closely along the lines of interest because of both countries continually dealing with similar Near East/South Asian game board constraints and dynamics.

    This might partially explain a pursuit of recounts and efforts to get the electoral college to contradict voting results by two right leaning USA parties–the Neocon/Neolib Democrats, and the alt-right leaning Trump Republicans.

    Remember, once upon a time, Trump and Billary were bosom buddies once.And now Billary and the Bushes are pals.

    Something happened. It all seems to hinge on how to deal with Russia/Syria/Iran. They can’t seem to agree on that.

  • @jaybate-1.0 So … there appears to be some linkage between the Person and the Party !! Thank you for your explanation !!

  • @Red.Rooster

    It’s just a hypothesis.

    And I’m focused most on the idea that American political parties maybe reconfiguring and converging toward a regime similar to Israel’s three major parties that now appear center, right and alt right, if you will, without a true left or even center left party reputedly among its three majors. I’m not passing any judgements. Just trying to understand what the heck is actually going on.

    Again, what made me think of it this way is the emergence of Trump’s advisors and appointees coming out of a foundation rputedly very sympathetic to Likud and Netanyahu, and the emphasis on alt-right perspective, rather than either traditional conservatism, or recent Neo-conservatism either. The right wing view point appears to have triumphed over both conservatism and neoconservatism. That phenomenon, if correctly recognized then begs the question of which wing of the US-Israel political base emblemized by reputedly Self-proclaimed Zionist, George Soros, to support Hillary so strongly? Guessed he must NOT be either Labor Party related, or he would have supported Bernie, and he must not be Likud-leaning, or he would have supported Trump as Likud appears to lean to. So: that would leave Hillary and her Neocons and neoliberal base aligned with Kadima.

    Or so might be the case.

  • @jaybate-1.0 Bmac wouldn’t be the #1 option on this team IMO

  • @jaybate-1.0 Soros a Zionist? No. George Soros is a globalist. Soros is a jew in name only. All of them… Hillary, Obama, the Bushies, etc. are all globalists, so looking at the prism of “globalism”, we have to see what their primary goals are to understand why they think and act the way they do. So, what do the globalists really want?

    • They want to collapse the whole concept of nation states, and consolidate into a one world government.

    *Globalists want all out annihilation of the Jews and Muslims in the middle east through war with each other. Which is one reason why Obama gave Iran 1.2 billion dollars, and turned around less than a month later, and announced a new aid package to Israel. You gotta have the $$$ to fight a war.

    • The overthrow of multiple middle eastern states ( The Arab Spring ) was a planned globalist event, with mobs of “protesters” being moved from country to country to create turmoil within the country, and help create a refugee crisis to put enormous amounts of pressure on western countries. Wasn’t Rome destroyed by lack of assimilation from the northern hoardes? The middle east countries targeted for overthrow had their economies intentionally manipulated to create financial crisis which led to “revolution”. You can review what happened to heating/cooking oil in Egypt before Mubarek was overthrown as one very clear reference.

    • Overwhelm the democratic countries with millions of refugees to dilute the nationalism of the countries, and create terrific pressure on the budgets of said countries. . Isn’t it funny that displaced poor people can travel 5,000 + miles, and magically be right at the border, and not have two nickels on them? Soooo, who’s moving all these people half a world away?

    • The next step is nuclear war in the middle east, and a worldwide financial collapse. You have to have complete financial collapse in order to overthrow multitudes of countries at the same time. You have to create what seems to be an insurmountable crisis in order for folks to submit to human slavery. This isn’t your basic communist overthrow- this isn’t a two bit Castro stealing every dollar out of every bank, every piece of land, every business in Cuba- this is big time stuff.

  • @jaybate-1.0 WAY OFF TOPIC: Have you ever read the book ‘Ishmael,’ written by Daniel Quinn? I have to admit to enjoying your posts that lean just a bit outside of the realm of ordinanry sports talk. Presses my squirrel brain to think a bit outside of the box, much like the novel I mentioned above.

    ON TOPIC: BMAC would be the 4th option on this team, but would probably be the leading scorer 1 out of every 3 games.

    ALSO: Go Indiana! Up 19-7 in the first half.

  • @YellowBeak Indiana ended up winning, and yes @jaybate-1.0 isn’t always entertaining but you get what you pay for and he’s pretty good for being free.

  • Yes, Indiana just knocked off #3 North Carolina. Now if the Jayhawks can whip Stanford, KU is bound to rise at least one step in the polls Monday.

  • @YellowBeak

    Yes, I read it, but long after it was newsworthy. Some one suggested it to me. The concept amused me, but then it did not resonate deeply as art, or philosophy, so I did not read his other two books. Did it speak to you?

  • @jaybate-1.0 said:

    “He may never become the guy they scheme to stop all season”

    I hope they don’t!

  • @jaybate-1.0 Yep, Vick is good, but he is not at Ben’s level yet. Teams havent schemed against him, yet. His shot is Money and he is good with the ball in his hands, they are about the same height but thats where the similarities end.

  • @Lulufulu They might have a hard time scheming in view of several other players also out there who have proven themselves for longer than Vick as major threats. B Mac was good because he was the one most feared and did it anyway.

    JJ, Devonte, and Frank (and now that tiny little fella at center) all have to be accounted for. How do you scheme for that many options, especially when 4 of them are good–at times, brilliant–passers?

  • @mayjay said:

    JJ, Devonte, and Frank (and now that tiny little fella at center) all have to be accounted for. How do you scheme for that many options, especially when 4 of them are good–at times, brilliant–passers?

    This is the key point. The passing skills of KU’s primary perimeter players (and I would throw Svi into that as well) are so good that it makes each option on the floor that much more dangerous because those players can actually get the basketball.

    At times, certain players aren’t dangerous not because they don’t have the ability, but because the player currently with the ball cannot get them the ball. That’s not the case with Frank, Devonte, Josh and Svi. There’s not a spot on the floor where those guys can’t get the ball to.

    Vick isn’t quite up to that level as a passer, but he’s pretty good, and with those other guys out there spacing the floor, it’s pretty tough to close off all of the options without getting burned somewhere.

  • @justanotherfan Oops! Forgot to mention Svi!

  • Banned

    Sometimes I have to just smile and laugh. The explosion of social media is kind of like having a wooden nickel. It’s cool to have one but it’s not really worth anything.

    Lets see a Hall fame basketball Coach that has won a championship in the college game and the NBA. Oh and by the way the only one to do so. Just loves this kid Vick, in fact recruited this kid.

    Coach Brown who has seen every kind of kid and athlete, when heading out the door at SMU called a man he taught the game to. Said take this kid and take him now.

    You know you guys make me shake my head. Out one side of your mouth is, “Oh a year or two riding the bench will make this player great”. Then out the other side of your mouth after a player rides the bench for a year or two, “Well they’re no BMAC, or they are not good as this player”.

    Really?? I thought KU would be good this year, maybe even win a championship. Yet with the explosion of Vick I’m ready to buy tickets to the final 4 and championship game. Who cares if Vick can’t jump as high as BMAC?? News flash not sure anybody in the NBA can either.

    Vick is showing that he can play., Geez at least enjoy the kid.

  • Guys that say players that haven’t done it for a season as the 1st option are as good or better than guys who have carried the mail as a 1st option AND now play in the pros kind of make me shake my head.

    But I’m cool.



    Yours was a very powerful post in its implications. Thanks for your candor.

    My thoughts differ some on the nature of the threat, but I am not yet clear enough in my thoughts to distract anyone from your assessment.

    Rock Chalk!

  • @YellowBeak

    I am interested in your thoughts about Ishmael and Quinn. I often learn an insight from others grabbed by a book that clears a path for me to access the book.

  • Here’s a @jaybate-1.0 kind of response. Again, I apologize being off basketball topic.

    I’ll couch this by admitting to not being an avid reader of anything other than news, sports and odd reviews about tools or gardnening. I do, however, attempt to pick an interesting topic each evening and spend time researching as I ready for bed. Last topic was simply, “where did all the buffalo go?” I learned a street in Topeka was once paved in crushed buffalo remains and there was an entire industry powered by what was left of the carcasses. People made money by simple picking up the bones of these beautiful beasts after railroaders and hunters killed them to starve the Indians out of their homelands. Back on track… I decided to tackle Ishmael at the request of a dear friend. The book grabbed me and spoke to me in a connected way. At the time I was struggling personally (several years ago) and from the moment I started reading I was caught.

    A 4th of July injury I suffered as a boy still makes reading lengthy passages difficult, but I powered through Ishmael. I was tested intellectually, forced to not believe and then believe. Quinn (or the Gorilla) really seemed to engage me in a philosophical conversation that I fearfully enjoyed. Quinn’s take on the agricultural revolution and the Takers and Leavers society seemed legit. As I’ve always shared a bit of the white man’s guilt of my ancestors helping to beautify and destroy this great country. The stories of the leavers and takers were basically the natives (leavers) and the Europeans (takers). Heavy agriculture eventually damaged some land, but did feed people. The topic of Cain and Able proved God favored Albe’s meat sacrifice more than Cain’s harvest of crops. This forced Cain to be jealous of Able until he commited the first murder. Ishmael taught me that there was some order in the lands involving those native habitants. Natives didn’t outgrow their property boundaries. They simply didn’t reproduce when they didn’t have the resources to support the larger population. The book also eluded to bumber croops from Nebraska being sent to feed the hungry in Africa in later years and ultimately forces the reader into answering whether or not it’s such a good idea to keep this population fed, but barely surviving.

    To wrap… being a guy that enjoys reading about early America and phylosophy the book was spot on. I need to read it again, but if a book about a man speaking telepathacally with a gorilla is good, it’s simply great. Also, when that man (main character) seems to be as lost as I was at the I was reading this, it was perfect. Thanks for asking @jaybate-1.0

    Here are some quotes from the book:

    “The premise of the Taker story is ‘the world belongs to man’. … The premise of the Leaver story is ‘man belongs to the world’.”

    “In fact, of course, there is no secret knowledge; no one knows anything that can’t be found on a shelf in the public library.”

    “We’re not destroying the world because we’re clumsy. We’re destroying the world because we are, in a very literal and deliberate way, at war with it.”

    “And every time the Takers stamp out a Leaver culture, a wisdom ultimately tested since the birth of mankind disappears from the world beyond recall.”

    “If there are forty thousand people in an area that can only support thirty thousand, it’s no kindness to bring in food from the outside to maintain them at forty thousand. That just guarantees that the famine will continue.”

    “True. But all the same, it’s hard just to sit by and let them starve.”

    “This is precisely how someone speaks who imagines that he is the world’s divinely appointed ruler: ‘I will not let them starve. I will not let the drought come. I will not let the river flood.’ It is the gods who let these things, not you.”

    “Famine isn’t unique to humans. All species are subject to it everywhere in the world. When the population of any species outstrips its food resources, that population declines until it’s once again in balance with its resources. Mother Culture says that humans should be exempt from that process, so when she finds a population that has outstripped its resources, she rushes in food from the outside, thus making it a certainty that there will be even more of them to starve in the next generation. Because the population is never allowed to decline to the point at which it can be supported by its own resources, famine becomes a chronic feature of their lives.”

  • @YellowBeak Thanks for your post. I ponder such issues probably too much- I know “culling the herd” is a communist principle that has been used in China and Russia within the past 100 years, with 70 million starved to death/ murdered. Once one begins to look at human beings as burdens, or viewed the same way they look at animals, then mass genocide…or mass indifference leading to death becomes possible.

    Take for instance if the globalists decided that the world would be better off with 500 million people instead of 6 billion people, Well, if they came out and said let’s kill 5.5 billion people, they would probably be met with massive resistance. However, if they said feeding all of these people is destroying our planet, so killing 5.5 billion people, or simply allowing them to starve will actually “save” the planet. I mean, it sounds real good at first glance…“saving the planet”. The devil is always in the details, isn’t it? Once the concept of human life as precious and sacred is removed, there are no limits to the atrocities that can occur.

  • @YellowBeak

    Doing nothing is playing god.

    God often appears to do nothing.

    @KUSTEVE nailed the unacceptable underlying problem with playing god by choosing to do nothing and letting persons starve or suffer.

    I do what I can to help and let god decide what he/she can do to help.

    Everything useful or good I have ever done flowed from the wise help of others.

    IMHO, the false assumption of the book was leavers and takers. I do not believe there were/are/will be leavers and takers.

    There are human beings that both leave and take.

    I like humans, despite how they annoy me sometimes with their taking.

    I like to help them, when I can.

    Being ignored to death is the most prevalent problem I see now, and have noted through out human history.

    The time for inaction is when all actions have unacceptable consequences, or when action denies another the freedom needed by another to succeed. I find the former rarely and the latter often.

    My mother said: do something and be of good cheer.

    I added Lincoln’s rule slightly conditioned: whatever you are, so long as it’s not hurting people, be a good one.

    -I have iced these with:

    -See and savor beauty

    -Choose toward fun

    -Don’t settle for lies and illogic

    -find the assumptions and see if they make sense

    -tell persons you love that you love them at least once a day

    -never miss a fitting opportunity to communicate “MUCK FIZZOU!”

  • @jaybate-1.0 Excellents pearls to live by, but, but, but, but–where is the most important saying of all, “Muck Fizzou”?

  • Speaking of Vick …my gosh, if he stays here next year…OMG.

  • 6 billion people on the earth and piles of grain so big that it’s nearly worthless. Largest carryover crop ever. Billions of carryover grain from last year. Farmers sure wish they’d eat more!

  • @mayjay


    See correction above above!


    Yes, this four guard “thang” could continue.

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