KU-SDSU: Three Reasons We Lost
-
@CaptnMo If coach Self really said that Brannen Greene wasn’t ready for a game like this, he is being completely disingenuous. I didn’t hear it, so operating off your info here. We watched Greene play well in a much more difficult environment at Florida, and we watched him make key plays against Duke in Chicago on a big stage. Heck, Wayne Selden didn’t look ready for a game like this. Andrew Wiggins didn’t look ready for a game like this. Perry Ellis sure as heck didn’t, either.
@jaybate, respectfully, I think you are making this a bit more complicated than it is. Before the game, you suggested that Tharpe and Mason, were too short to match up vs. SDSU. You mentioned specifically, in a pregame post, Greene or AW3 getting a lot more minutes as a result. Your logic, pregame, was right on point regarding Greene or White, and how they could have helped match up. (as an aside on the short guys, I think Mason did well on D, Tharpe did not).
Your logic now is simply a hypothesis of why Self didn’t play either one - “Greene or White risked higher TOs without higher strips.” You noted what you are hypothesizing to be his strategy. From a stat standpoint, AW3 has few turnovers per minute played this season than Selden. Greene’s TO rate is a bit higher than Selden.
And tell me, who has been more disruptive as a defensive player, Selden or Greene? Greene, when in, is aggressive, tips the ball away, and gets after it. Andrew White is significantly better rebounder than Selden, 20.2 per minute vs. 10.6 per minute. Plus, White showed that last year as well (23.2 per minute).
But I think we’re making this more complicated than it is, and we don’t have to.
Green, White, Frankamp – none of them are a cure all. Heck, Greene or White could have easily gone 1 of 5 from three yesterday.
But what I am talking about is building a diverse attack that gives you the best chance to win in all circumstances. Right now, we have three perimeter players whose strength is driving to the hoop (Selden, Wiggins, Mason), and one who is an average three point shooter (Tharpe) that doesn’t have any stand out skill.
We don’t have a player on the perimeter to provide the complimentary skill of nailing the three, and we’re doing nothing to ensure that we have one come March. That is very concerning to me. @lulufulu85 read my mind.
And I think, most importantly, the trade off by playing say Greene or White 15-17 per game would not cause any reduction in our likelihood of winning games.
We won the disruption stat. That is nice. But we lost by four at home.
I am very confident that if this team had a distinct three point threat, it would open up more offensive opportunities across the board.
-
@HighEliteMajor I can’t agree more on #2 and this is becoming a small trend HEM. I think the other points can be addressed and corrected. This one is a mystery to me. Just when I think Self is getting outcoached, he usually redeems himself, somehow. I hope he redeems himself soon.
We need more Greene, Greene, and more Greene. And, let him play through some mistakes and gain some confidence. Let him get a rhythm. Please, Coach Self, let Brannen Greene play and give him a Greene light.
-
As much as I love Selden, I really think he would be better off coming off the bench, and Greene or White starting at his spot or at least getting more minutes than him.
-
As one who is a fan and not a player, I have a question for some of you guys out there who are obviously former players. When you’re shooting ice cold, and can’t even buy a basket, how do you turn that around during a game? We obviously have some excellent shooters-sometimes we’ve shot over 60% during a half, and most games we shoot over 50%. But yesterday I kept thinking, “sooner or later we’ll get hot”, and of course, it never happened. Is that just a confidence issue, or what? Also, as badly as they played yesterday, I never felt like they quit. They were in it to the end, and barring a couple of bad calls, things could have ended differently. ( I don’t mean to say the calls were the reason they lost.) Lastly, I know ESPN has some lousy announcers, but nobody can compare to that idiot Gottleib! He may have said a couple of nice things about KU and Allen Fieldhouse, but his calling of the game was just terrible IMHO.
-
@HighEliteMajor I was as surprised to hear it as anyone. My wife and I both looked at each other amazed. Conner I can understand but he lumped Greene in the same statement.
The kusports article makes reference to the statement but didn’t include the part that practice was proof they weren’t ready.
-
My thoughts…
I think as KU fans, we’re spoiled. Our team plays in one of the best venues in all of sports. AFH is voted the loudest and most intimidating arena to play in every year. KU fans act as if it is impossible for an opponent to come in and beat us. We expect teams to come in, kiss the imperial seal and take their beating. A team like SDSU isn’t going to take that. They’re a very well-coached, fundamentally sound, and veteran team. To win at AFH is exactly what they need to show they’re a contender (if SDSU was any other team they would be in the top 5 going into this game, just sayin). The venue means nothing if you can’t rebound, can’t make free throws, and continuously settle for difficult jump shots. That much was clear last night.
Second, Tharpe’s comments after the game were extremely telling. "On Monday, I’m going to ask the guys, ‘How much do we really care about what’s on the front of our jersey? How much do we care about winning (for Kansas)?’…I’ve been here a long time. Some of the guys ahead of me (on depth chart his first two years at KU) … tears came down dudes’ eyes when we lost.” You better believe it Naadir. Guys like Tyshawn, T-Rob, Releford, B-Mac, EJ, etc. were not going to let us lose. They had something this team is completely void of…HEART. They had a competitive edge. Guys like Wiggins don’t know what it means to play for a program like KU, and they don’t care because they’re gone in a few months. Maybe guys like Selden and Embiid may someday get it, but surely not right now. It’s so sad to watch something we all hold in such high regard neglected. What I saw last night was on par with what I see from my 4 year old niece at her soccer games. Following mistakes, heads down, energy deflated, DEFEAT. It was all the more infuriating watching Jamari do it as the clock ticked down with 1:45 to go and us still down by 4. This is the problem with having a team like this one. Perry and Naadir are our veterans, but they’re not seniors, and quite frankly it’s just not enough.
I know it’s blasphemy to say something like this, but at this point, Coach Self is stubbornly stupid. Stupidity is the only way I can assess this following portion. Continuing to ignore our shooting deficiencies is about as stupid as it gets. Broadcasters keep saying we lack outside shooting. They just don’t realize our three best shooters don’t get any playing time. Selden continues to get playing time over Greene, White and Frankamp. Why? I’m sorry, but he’s not Releford, so please don’t give me the defense excuse. Greene makes mistakes? Ya, so does our entire team. The tradeoff in playing Selden over any of those three is just not good enough to continue doing so. Self is a big fan of asking reporters to look up stats in the history of AFH… I got one for ya Billy, yesterday was the worst shooting percentage for a KU team since they started keeping the freaking stat! How about that!?
If Self continues to make this idiotic decision to stick with Selden over any of our shooters, not only will it cost us a chance at the national title, it will cost us a tenth straight Big 12 title, and if you want my honest opinion, possibly a trip to the tournament. Like the zone defense that led to some of our other losses, SDSU just gave everyone a blueprint for how to beat us. We had no answer for them double-teaming Embiid in the post. None. And since we can’t hit shots, SDSU was perfectly fine with letting us continue to throw up jump shots.
This team thinks our Non-con was bad, just wait. Right now, there are probably four road games that seem un-winnable. Ames, Stillwater, Waco, and Manhattan. And I’m tempted to throw Austin in there right now. Those teams are playing with confidence, while ours has no fight and zero heart. And how can you tell me that teams have no chance of winning in the Fieldhouse right now? It can be done. We have many deficiencies, and opposing teams are showing everyone in the Big 12 how to beat us.
And to make that debacle so much worse, was having to listen to that weaselly prick Doug “credit card scam” Gottlieb for two and a half hours. It was enough to put the TV on mute.
At this point, things don’t look good. The sky may not be falling, but it’s looking pretty shaky right now.
-
Brannen Greene will be a good if not great basketball player, but any who are calling for his shooting now are forgetting how many points he gives up. He is constantly out of position on defense allowing the other team to score. It’s not always his man, but being out of position cause others to shift to help leaving their man open. He also pouts after bad plays instead of just reacting to correct the mistake.
Wiggins and Selden need another year of college ball. Embiid could use another year of adjusting to the culture and learning the basics.
Experience is what this team needs and is what they are getting. Will it be enough by tournament time?
This team will be good in a year or two, but many of the current pieces will be gone. I hope the early defectors are still in the NBA by what could be their senior year in Lawrence.
-
@MoonwalkMafia If Bill is so stupid and this year is a loss, why not sit Wiggins and Embiid so that Lucas and Greene can develop? No sense in developing a player for the NBA at the expense of next years experience. Right?
Personally I want to win now. I want success in this years tourney. Bill is giving the team the best chance to succeed. Just like last year with EJ playing over Tharpe. Does anyone think that Thapre would’ve been the better point guard last year after watching Naadir play this year?
I don’t think this current group of players can beat ISU or OSU the way they are currently playing. But they are young and will mature as the season progresses. The most talented pieces need the most experience by March to give KU the best chance at a national title.
-
I agree with all of your points and would add one more very simple point.
They played harder
That’s it. Sometimes, basketball comes down to simply which team plays harder and tougher. Yesterday, for all 40 minutes, that team was San Diego State. They wanted that win badly and they played every single possession like that win meant everything. We did not.
They attacked. We were attacked. They were on their toes. We were on our heels. We hoped something would go right. They made things happen.
If you go back and watch the game, look at how many times SDSU got to the rim and dunked. We blocked more shots yesterday than they did (13-eight), but when we got around the rim, they altered just about everything because we DID NOT DUNK THE BASKETBALL. It’s almost as if this team believes they can only dunk on fast breaks. Sometimes you have to dunk in traffic just to let the other team know they can’t push you around. We got pushed around yesterday. Not so much physically, but mentally, emotionally and psychologically.
They were the aggressors, and more often than not, the aggressor will win.
-
@oldhwkfan When you are struggling to shoot, two things have to happen.
-
You have to get higher quality looks. Whether that means getting more open, or getting into the lane, you absolutely have to get higher quality opportunities.
-
You have to increase your effort level. It kind of goes with #1, but you really have to work on both ends when you are struggling to shoot well. That means defending and trying to create some transition opportunities, pounding the offensive glass for second chance opportunities, hustling for every loose ball.
You may not be able to always control whether the ball goes into the basket, but you can always control opportunities and effort.
-
-
@dylans I’m not saying Bill Self is stupid. I’m saying his insistence to ignore our deficiencies is stupid. Lucas will develop by virtue of the fact that he’ll be in Lawrence for another three and a half years. I’m saying that continuing to play Selden over Greene or White is an unfounded decision. We’re struggling to shoot the ball. It is something that Self has to address. What does benching Embiid or Wiggins have to do with anything?
-
@MoonwalkMafia Selden is out of position far less than Greene. Selden may disappear at times, but you always know where Greene, look for the out of position guy causing the rest of the defense to be out of position trying to cover (Wiggins has picked up some fouls because of Greene)Or he’s the guy making faces as he watches the defender streak down the court after he turns it over. Greene is the better shooter, but gives up more points than he could ever hope to create at this point. He will be a stud he’s just further removed than Selden from his potential greatness.
I do think this team would benefit from a great three point shooter, but not if he gives up points at an alarming rate.
As I stated earlier. Sounds like you have given up on the season. Why continue to develop NBA talent instead of next years players? Bench Wiggins and Embiid and develop the supporting class for Oubre and Alexander.
Personally I want to see Bill to continue to develop the players that will give KU the best chance at a title this year. Let’s worry about next year in the off season.
-
@dylans I respectfully disagree. Actually, in watching Greene quite closely, I would describe his defense as highly adequate, if not pretty good at times. I’ve posted on this before. I’m not saying he is a good defender yet.
Importantly – If his defense was that bad, how does he play 30 minutes in a two game stretch for coach Self? Heck, as the 5th perimeter player, that is amazing.
I have not heard coach Self ever criticize his defense. I heard him compliment him on how hard he played. In the times Self has discussed Greene, I have never heard the defense issue come up.
Further, my observations were that Greene over that two game stretch was clearly that he did stick with his man, was able to slide and provide help, was aggressive and active (poking the ball away a few times) without talking unnecessary risks, seemed to move well, and fought over screens. I didn’t see perfection … what I mean is, many of your criticisms could be laid at the feet of all of our defenders from time to time. We should not hold Greene, or any sub, at a higher standard.
I think this defense thing is, with all due respect, a bit of a red herring. It’s a kind of up in the clouds, highly subjective catch all that we use sometimes to try to explain why a guy isn’t playing.
I still think Selden should start – I think you keep developing him. I just think you can find 15-17 minutes per game from the 4 top perimeter guys to include Greene or White, without any real harm.
-
@HighEliteMajor You are right. The defense of all the players at times has been sub-par. Wiggins d is better than expected though.
I don’t necessary feel Brannen’s D is atrocious, but he compounds his mistakes. He has made positive strides since the start of the season. However he needs to react with his feet, not his face while standing motionless.
I’d like to see Greene spell Selden instead of Mason, but he is very inconsistent and at this point is a net negative. Once Greene stops looking like a freshman he’ll be OK. Currently 22.7% of Brannen’s possessions end up in turnovers, but his 47% eFGPercentage isn’t bad.
-
@dylans Again, we lack shooting. It’s something that needs to be addressed. I agree with @HighEliteMajor below. It’s not as if Selden needs to play the entire game (especially if he’s not getting it done) so why can’t you find 15 minutes or so to play a perimeter guy?
I have not given up on the season, and please don’t try to tell me what I think. I will not deny that I am a little pessimistic right now. What I’ve seen has led me to that point. And again, repeating this prevarication of developing next years players over two of the best players we have is unfounded and is completely removed from the point I’m trying to make.
-
@HighEliteMajor I would have gone long based on what I know of performances so far. So would you. But Self has apparently turned some kind of corner on the kind of team this will be. Wiggins has morphed into Xavier 2.0 for whatever reason, probably because he will be gone and has only an average shooting touch. Embiid seems in recent stories to be willing to commit to two seasons, so he is being built around. Oubre is coming to fit with Embiid, not expecting to be bigger than Lebron and Wilt. Self is investing heavily in Naa and Frank, apparently emulating Slick Ricks model last season for this one at guard, and because he senses he may lose one or both of Greene/Whit, when he signs Lyle/Rashad. Something must be going on behind the scenes with Greene. Self sees what we see. This is unfolding much like Peters and Adams. Appearances don’t square with realities. Self usually likes to match up and play it anyway they want. Greene and White were logical choices and Self only contradicts logic, when other “stuff” is going on. The other “stuff” must have made him decide to opt to win the game with the depth of the bigs and a defense retooled for more disruption; i.e., modeling Slick Rick’s small guards as you commented to me per-game. Regarding me over complicating, I doubt I. Could over complicate this extraordinary situation, even if I tried. Self appears in his usual protean style to be shifting gears and playing around being dictated to by difficult circumstances. It does not matter whether Wiggins is not as good as billed, or going the Xavier 2.0 route, or injured, or too young developmentally, he does not play as the next Lebron for KU and Self is recognizing it in the scheme. Wiggins is playing pretty well for a freshman and so he is playing and green lighted. But he has not taken over a game for a month now. Ben Mac played sharply better, so did Rush in their first seasons. I am not even a little unhappy with Wiggins. He is a clear strength. He just is not a great player yet, not nearly as dominant as Anthony Davis, even. And I don’t care if he will be unless he decides to stay. He is what he is now. We are better with him, just as we were better with Xavier.
Self is masking weak guards; that is the hardest task of all in coaching.this is the second season he has had to do it. It caught up with him last year. It probably will again this year, whether he plays GREENE/WHITE, or does not. Guards and bigs and a great player win rings. He is playing all his bigs to develop them. He is playing THARPE/MASON and Selden to try to develop them. Someone has to sit to let it happen. Self apparently trusts Selden more than Greene and values developing MASON/THARPE more than Greene; that is the simplest version. The more complicated version is the complex backdrop I have alluded to.
I do think, as I said above that Self will still get around to developing Green/White in January against less tough teams than SDSU, which I think was a heckuva team that would demolish any opponent KU has played so far, if it plays that way all the time.
We saw yesterday just how much farther Tharpe and Mason have to develop to be effective at PG. Tharpe especially got exposed. Self has to play them big minutes to get them ready even as backup PGs, which is what both of them really are in terms of development this year. They just have to play, because there is no developed point guard around.
The biggest question facing Self, however is not any of the above, but what to do about Ellis. He is our first option to score, and he cannot score against L&As inside. The verdict is in. He also is a weak rebounder against same. This is the deep flaw in the team Self is building. If Self shifts inside scoring to Embiid, then KU will be out rebounded by L&As. If Self keeps scoring through Perry, KU will score well until KU meets tournament teams that are L&As, and then it will lose. Since Self seems to be scheming toward next season as much as this one, he is probably very close to swinging Perry 3/4. He could already be doing it had Black not been so slow to develop on both ends. Perry is not destined to be a dominant 4 without 25 more pounds, no matter how much lean muscle he develops at 225. At 3, he is an every game MUA. At 4, he will never hold MUA MORE THAN 3/4s of the time. I am no knocking Perry, just saying playing out of position doesn’t get the team to its highest ceiling.
But Tarick and JAM TRAY haven’t shown they can score, or rebound even as well against the L&As.
Self is in a real bind with Perry–a quality person and a quality player stuck out of position and out of his depth.
Swinging Perry exploits the current depth on the bench against L&As, which Self goes to any way now, plus gets Perry ready to swing with Oubre who will not be as good as the hype, as usual.
Perry can shoot the trey as well as any one we have now squeezing them, plus he is vastly better than White/Greene right now in every other phase of the game.
What I am repeating from a prior post with more definite is we cannot win at a high level with Perry at the 4, unless Embiid becomes Jabbar/Olajuwan this season and that seems unfeasible even in best case.
Swinging Perry 3/4 leads to swinging Wiggins 3/2 and this means real time MUAs against the L&A teams at tourney time. Of course Perry can guard any 6-5 to 6-7 guy at 3. And he could whip their butts on offense. And Wiggins is a crushing monster against any 2 on both ends, compared to subbing Naa, or GREENE/WHITE for Selden. It hangs 38 minutes a game on Perry and Wiggins, which they are both capable of. There is no loss to doing it against L&As. Zero. Perry already cannot score and board on the L&As.
And Greene appears no answer at 3 in any case.
The good news is the saplings now know unequivocally the difference between young men and boys and unless they are in complete denial they know they are yet boys. While chastening, it is a necessary realization prior to further getting better.
They got there butts kicked and laughed at that first half. Wiggins had never been laughed off a court before. HE WILL GET BETTER BECAUSE OF IT, BECAUSE HE HAS THE TALENT TO DO SO. IT’S NOT SO CLEAR ABOUT PLAYERS ON THE TALENT BUBBLE, WHICH IS WHY SELF KEEPS YOUNG FOOLS OUTSIDE OF SUCH SITUATIONS.
But it’s up to Self and Self may not want to invest so much in Wiggins for only a year.
-
Excellent points. Regarding the lack of perimeter players flashing thru the lane when our bigs were doubled–If you rewatch the game (I only watched it live) I believe you will see Wiggins half-heartedly, non-chalantly, passively meandering into the lane on at least several occasions when our post player was double-teamed. My point is, he just isn’t being as aggressive as he needs to be. If he cuts hard through the lane instead of meandering through, he will be wide open for passes from the post. I believe Embiid is a pretty good passer for having such little experience. Wiggins needs to improve this area of his game before he gets to the next level because NBA defenders aren’t going to let you jack 3’s or create your own shot off the dribble as easily.
-
HEM, you are right on the money.
I was court side, so I was able to pick up on a lot of things I never see on TV. The first thing I noticed was we could not get in rhythm offensively, and no idea how to handle the double team. We could not guard their pick and roll at all.
Second, I noticed that Fisher is a fantastic coach. His timeouts were executed with perfect timing, among many other things he did.
Then I noticed Self could not make adjustments to the team. When he tried to send in a three pt threat, he chose the guy that had not seen game time in over a month, in AWIII, instead of Greene who is clearly the superior impact player.
Next, I saw Perry was O fer 6 with 5 of them being bunnies. He was clearly bothered by the length, and the second layer of blocking.
The biggest issues I have that I was able to pick up on having been so close to the action:
- Wiggins is to lazy without the ball, and I think he has a bad attitude.
- The bad attitudes are contagious–how many arms flailing could I count ? A ton. Looked like a bunch of sour puss babies out there getting their A$$ whipped and all they could do is pout.
- Wiggins is lazy, and only puts out 1/2 effort most of the game.
- Wiggins is lazy.
- Selden was overhyped.
- Wiggins is lazy. If I had the time, I;d cut all of the game tape I have and show his lazy arse not working without the ball ALL OF THE TIME. He’s worse than BMac as far as not plugging himself into the game.
Due to being super lucky, I have some friends that work at AFH so I get the opportunity to visit with some of the players. Here is what I picked up on last night:
This is a team chalked full of bad attitudes, save Joel Embiid. This is a team chalked full of Prima Donnas, Save Joel Embiid. This is a team 1/2 full of people who obviously are focused on themselves instead of the team.
And I asked Greene if he is going to transfer, even though that probably wasn’t right of me to ask. But I asked, and I didn’t like his response.
-
One more item, Black cannot continue to get minutes over Lucas. He has an incredible knack for rebounding the ball, and he is really long. But I’m afraid that Self is too stubborn to divvy Selden’s time w/ Greene and Blacks with Lucas.
-
@Blown What did Greene say?
-
joeloveshawks–I will qualify this by saying that I have spent the last 8 years investigating people and situations, which includes a lot of interrogation. It’s rarely what people say that you need to listen to, it’s everything else that goes into their response. These guys are coached to respond to all sorts of questions, and I can tell that I caught him off guard. I’m probably an ass for doing it, but I really wanted to get a gage on the situation. On top of the body language, he wouldn’t say “no” and I repeated myself a couple of times.
-
@Blown Gotcha. I appreciate the answer. I truly hope that Greene can figure out how to stay. He looks like he will turn into the real deal at some point. It would be best if he is wearing a KU uniform when he realizes his potential.
I know we are supposedly still ranked #1 in strength of schedule and it only gets worse from here. Our next 5 game stretch is brutal. What do you all think? Is this good timing that we have to play 3 top 10 teams in the next 5 games so we know we need to get pumped up for every possession or is it the worst thing possible for a young team lacking confidence?
-
@Blown you called it, you sound like an ass to me!
-
HEM, you’ve hit the nail on the head. We need to develop a reliable 3 point shooter. You can’t do that if you have guys on too short of a leash. Why is it that Tharpe and make mistake after mistake and stay in games, while other guys (especially Greene) make one mistake and they’re gone? I love Coach Self, and agree with most everything he does, but he seems to have one or two guys, every year, who he won’t allow to play through a few mistakes. Yesterday, White comes in and misses a quick 3, and that’s it for him. Last year Ellis was the guy, until tournament time when he finally was forced to let him play. Is he trying to hide people from NBA scouts?
Seldon is adding very little. Until he develops an outside shot it is going to be more of the same. Self definitely needs to pick one guy from Greene, White and Frankamp, and get them regular minutes, I’d say a minimum of 10 to 15 minutes a game. Those minutes can come from Seldon, Tharpe and Mason, and maybe a few from Wiggins. You can’t be successful in March if you don’t have at least one reliable 3 point shooter. Teams will continue to play zone and pack it in on our bigs, until a reliable 3 point shooter emerges. To me Greene is the logical guy. He’s long, and he has quick feet. He appears to be very comfortable with the ball when he’s been allowed to play through a mistake or two. White is quicker than last year, but he’s still a bit of a plodder. Frankamp is overmatched on the defensive end of the floor. That leaves Greene the obvious choice.
There must be a practice or attitude issue going on with him. I recall one game where he didn’t get in when everyone else on the roster did. That’s the only explanation I can think of, because it is obvious watching him he is a tremendous talent. Or, maybe Self is hiding him until next year? Problem is, we need help this year, and we need shooting help now.
The other guy I’d like to see get more minutes is Landon Lucas. The only other player on the team with his rebounding ability is Embiid. Lucas is always solid when he gets into the game. Traylor adds nothing offensively, and from the limited time I’ve seen Lucas, he doesn’t appear to be as good a rebounder as Lucas. Lucas is one of those guys who, when he finally gets a chance to play, is going to make everyone say, “Where the heck has that guy been?”
We need help now, not a year from now. Coach needs to mix things up, or the conference season will be more of the same.
-
@Crimsonorblue22 Now, why did you have to go and lower yourself to my level by name calling ?
-
@Blown can’t resist, is blown from blowing your own horn? interrogating a kid, really?
-
@Crimsonorblue22 Yep. Blowing my own horn, cause I get off on it. I didn’t interrogate him, I did not make him uncomfortable. He was all smiles the entire time. We had a simple conversation, and I asked him what most people here want to know. I apologize for my improper journalism protocol and etiquette. I pray some day you will find it in your heart to forgive me and we can remain friends.
-
Easy guys, the only rule on here is: “Don’t be a d**k”
-
@dylans ok, that would be hard for me to do!
-
Did anyone else find themselves screaming at the Tv for Mason to pass the ball. Seems to be a bit of a ball hog
-
@Crimsonorblue22 It’s all good. I was just expecting civilhawk to show up.
-
The joys of a young team. They spice it up for the coaches and the fans.
I fully expect this team, to beat teams, that I expect them to lose to. I fully expect this team, to lose to teams, I expect them to beat.
It’s like March Madness year-long.
-
@Jhox Great post. Lucas is definitely a guy that I look forward to seeing more of as time goes on.
-
It’s been a good 22 hours now since this loss. I just hope the loss has the desired effect of humbling this team and centering them. I worry that a young team like this has a bit more of a juvenile outlook, and rightfully so, they’re only 19 years old! We lost to a good SDSU and ended up still in the top 20 in many of the polls, and haven’t been blown out by anyone yet. Could this loss at home, losing a historical winning streak, be enough to “break” these guys a little bit and get them more focused heading into conference play? I hope so.
-
Why did we lose? Simple answer, once again by allowing a team to punch us in the mouth and not do anything about it. We should be the punchers. It appears this team celebrated the win over Duke as it’s National Championship. The talent isn’t the problem, there is plenty of that. A whole lot of talent, that is not being used? I have said all along that Landen Lucas could play. Hell, I believed he could have played last year, but was Red-Shirted. If it is painfully obvious that a player can play, then let him play. Other than missing two free-throws, he was pretty much flawless and had a positive effect on the game. Embiid and Lucas would be an interesting combination. That would open up the 3 point shooting that we rarely use, because shooters are confident when there are dominant rebounders on the court.
-
@MoonwalkMafia Boy oh Boy. Good job.
-
Some great posts here. HEM and Moonwalk are on the money. Lucas plays with hustle. He pulled two Off rebounds in traffic within a min or so . He has the beast mode attitude that other Bigs are lacking. I wish he can get more PT.
I am extremely disappointed in Selden. The guy has no shooting skills and he is the shooting guard. Why can’t Greene and/or White get some of his mins. Very disappointing.
-
Interesting difference of opinion between HEM and Jaybate regarding Self’s coaching strategy. Although it boggles my mind to think we had three 3-point bombers on the bench then entire game, I’ve always assumed that Self tried to win EVERY game, playing the players he thought could accomplish that goal. However, last night I really felt like he did not do that. Either he was out coached, or he was trying to make a point to his players: 1) you can win with good defense (almost happened) 2) You don’t need to jack threes to win (true, but we clanked some bad ones down the stretch anyway) or 3) You are my top eight guys, and this is the last chance to prove you can function in a close game (fail).
I’m not sure where Self goes from here. Every time I see Mason and Tharpe out there together I want to bang my head on a wall. It’s painful to watch, but hopefully the man has a plan!
-
@KansasComet Good point about Embiid and Lucas playing together. I remember how well T-Rob/Withey combo worked when teams were focused on stopping T-Rob. Withey did not have much post moves and his offensive skills were marginal at best that year. But he was able to make easy plays. Perhaps Lucas can take on that role with Embiid.
-
@HighEliteMajor - valiant post, my friend! You wear your heart on your sleeve… and I’d be totally thrilled to find a guy like you to coach my kid!
That was a painful game to watch. I DVR all the games and typically watch them again, sometimes up to 6 times or so. I scratched that game from my DVR the second it was over. I didn’t even do that after we lost the Michigan game last year.
At this moment, the team is lost. All of these guys are being shoved into manhood, and they aren’t going into it without a fight! They don’t seem to be embracing CS’s philosophies yet. I’m just trying to back off of throwing out anger and blame, and holding onto some patience to see if they get it down the road.
I couldn’t even identify what offense we were trying to run. Was that an attempt at Self’s Hi/Lo? Motion offense? Dribble-drive? or… Run-and-Gun?! Since when do players dribble the ball over the half court line and just hoist up a gunned shot from 30 feet? And since when do they do it without CS calling a timeout and pulling them? That game was a complete meltdown!
I’m lifting my standards and going with the Wizard of Westwood. I’m raising my vision to a higher plateau. I’m not going to blast players for not meeting my expectations. They get from me the silent treatment on criticism and a loud voice of support in hopes they figure it out and find the mojo to match the high level of empathy given by the fans. It’s the Wooden method. I’m not going to be a drag on them… constantly criticizing every move. They have no excuses, no crutches to fall back on, because all these kids have loads of talent and athleticism, and a positive fan base behind them. Our expectations are gone… so they’ll have to decide for themselves what expectations should be out there.
They’ll have to sort it out. We are all behind them! Go Hawks!
We have the faith that they’ll figure it out between now and March!
Relieve them and yourself by letting go! Whatever happens will happen, but you’ll stay focused on what you have to do, which is stay happy and healthy yourself. All the hard love we give them now is just holding them back. We have all been dumping all our expectations upon them and making it a tougher climb for them.
That doesn’t mean we don’t guide them. That doesn’t mean we don’t offer words of encouragement and direction. You have great insight into the game and your words are needed. Keep bringing it because you post from the heart! (and the mind!)
It is so easy to be a fan to a team that never loses. The best fans are there for the team when they fall on hard times.
This team can still lose 7 more games this season and pull a “Danny and the Miracles!”
The most we can do for them is support them with positivity and relentlessly show them a clear path to the goal! That’s all we can do. They may figure it out or they may fail, but they will do it having the Jayhawk Nation getting their back!
We (me included) have kicked them plenty of times now in their backside. Let’s see what happens when we hug them on their frontside, praise their positives, and show a positive way of helping them over their negatives.
I’m thinking these guys will react now and are ready to leave “boot camp!”
Rock Chalk… Go KU!
-
@AsadZ I keep pushing for Lucas too, and more of Greene. Didn’t like Black and Traylor in at the same time. But, I’m not at practice so I trust Self.
-
We simply got Out Toughed! SDSU played hard, got stops and they never got rattled.
In my very humble opinion if the following changes had been made, this could be the expected outcome.
Better three point shooting with Greene / White: Maybe we barely win.
Better rebounding / blocking out: Maybe we barely win.
Better PG play: Maybe we barely win.
We play tough hard nose basketball, with the mantra “we will not be out toughed in our house! Not now! Not ever!”: We win definitively!!!
I know there is lots of thing this team could improve upon. But overall they need some fight and right now the main guy that needs to step up is Selden. I just can’t see anyone else on the team who is likely to or in a position to grow in way to have a huge impact on this season. It seems as though Self has put all chips in on developing Selden on the hope this will happen. Like others I would love to see Greene get more time, but I can’t deny that if Selden puts it together he can pack a huge punch for this team in alot of different ways. A confident, fired up Selden could help pull this team up by the boot straps and push them over the edge to be the kind of team we all thought they could be.
Maybe it’s wishful thinking…but that’s what I’m pinning my hopes on.
-
My 2 cents:
Just because we lost 4 games in the non-conference doesn’t mean we won’t win the national title.
If we win the Big 12, we’ll be as good a candidate to with the whole enchilada as anyone.
Also, I don’t blame Self for the SDSU loss entirely, but he certainly has some responsibility. I’m pretty sure he is aware and will learn from it. Fisher had his team well-prepared. But Self’s leadership has led to 9 B12 titles and a NC in 10 years… I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that the team has some serious room for growth and he’s doing what he can to provide it.
However, I don’t lay it entirely at the feet of the players either. I don’t agree that the players “didn’t care” or “weren’t trying” as some suggested during the game on one of the boards.
The team wins together and loses together. The latter half sucks, but it’s the truth. I still think there will be more wins than losses, but the team (and fan base) need to be emotionally prepared for some brutal B12 games.
I’d like to think our non-conference schedule has done just that.
-
@bskeet your 2 cents is worth a lot!
-
Fisher coached a brilliant game yesterday with a well-prepared mature squad. Our shooting percentage, esp. the first half, was perhaps as bad as it has been in my 72 year lifespan. Yet, if our power forward backs up Embiid in blocking out SDSU’s continuous offensive rebounders from slamming home second shots, we win. As sound as SDSU played on both ends of the court, and as horribly as we played offense, we were within 3 defensive stops of winning that contest. Certainly not time for anyone’s resignation…
-
@REHawk That said, the Brannen Greene saga leaves me perplexed. Long, athletic, aggressive, and a 3 pt. threat…what gives? Either the kid is a stubborn and incorrigible hardhead who refuses to meld into Self’s demands, or there exist some untowards offcourt issues of which we are unaware. Brannen possesses the hoops talent to help this team to dominance. It’s a damn shame that it is not working out for the betterment of Jayhawk Basketball.
-
On a different note is it just me or others feel the same way about Doug Gotlieb and his ridiculous commentary yesterday. It seemed that he hates KU. He did not miss a single opportunity to slam KU while praising SDSU the whole time. His voice would be so loud every time SDSU made a bucket. I was damn sick and tired after listening to him for 2.5 hours.
-
From Jesse Newell in the Capitol Journal, for those of you that haven’t seen it…
It’s time to start considering whether Wayne Selden Jr. should be replaced in the starting lineup and perhaps in the rotation. Statistically, he was poor in nearly every area: shooting (2 for eight), rebounding (one in 26 minutes), turnovers (two) and defensively (no steals for a second straight game). His 0.967 points per possession mark for the year is worst among KU’s top nine regulars, and as this blog showed, he’s not providing any sort of a presence defensively either. Selden has a great basketball body and looks good in a uniform, but at this point, he’s not pulling his weight in KU’s rotation.
-
@KansasComet, despite my own takes on some of the problems with the pieces of this team, your mouth punch take best addresses the loss in that game.Every young team has to lose one of these before realizing just how tough D1 is. Copy and paste.
-
@AsadZ I cannot stand Doug Gottlieb. If you want something to laugh at about him though, check this out…
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/12/notre-dame-player-rips-doug-gottlieb-for-making-fun-of-his-beard/
