Taking Over A Game...
We have a great team!
We have so many talented guys on this team. On any given night, any of our top players may get hot and take over the team on the stat line.
I have already called this team “Wayne’s team.” I didn’t make this statement because I thought Wayne took over this team and is carrying the team on his back. I did it because Wayne has been stepping up at times and making some key plays that definitely gets the attention of his teammates and they often respond to what Wayne does first.
Guys like Wayne, Perry, Frank and Devonte… on any given night can take over this team.
But what I have yet to see, is any of our guys take over a game. That is the last step in personal contribution to a team. Sometimes one guy needs to take over the game. Even though OU lost, Buddy took over the game. The stat line supports that, but also you only had to watch a few minutes of the game at just about any spot in the game and you had better be keying in on Buddy, or you would miss out on a great deal of the real action.
I’m curious if any of our guys will just flat out take over a game this year? I know our focus is on “team ball.” I’m pretty sure OU has that same focus. That hasn’t stopped Buddy from taking over games and his teammates seem to be extremely satisfied with being “supporting cast.”
Do any of you see one or more of our guys taking over a game?
When was the last time we had a player take over the game? Maybe Wiggins? Or do we have to go all the way back to Sherron?
wrwlumpy last edited by wrwlumpy
USA Today agrees with you.
I think Perry really tried. His shot attempts were astronomical for him against Oklahoma. He had moments especially at the start and near the end where we wanted the ball in his hands every possession. I think he’ll have a game this year where he takes it over, scores 30+, has double digit rebounds and over 5 assists. It may be coming real soon. He is starting to play with some emotion. I thought Self’s biggest playing time gaff vs Oklahoma was pulling Perry when he did in the first half when he started to heat up. Probably helped us in the end as he had fresher legs. But I though he was going to crack it open about half way through the first.
Also, EJ vs Iowa state.
Thanks… pretty good read.
But what if OU had scored one more point in regulation? They would have won the game and the author of this story would have wrote a completely different article proclaiming that one guy can take down a team, even one with the depth Kansas has.
I’m not saying we need to have any of our guys take a disproportionate amount of shots in a game.
I’m just saying that sometimes you have a guy that is feeling it, and the other team just doesn’t have an answer to stop him. Shouldn’t we consider exploiting that like a NBA team would do? Keep feeding the guy that can’t be stopped!
I really like our team and team concept. I really like Wayne stepping up big this year and taking possession of this team. Did you notice how he often made a basket right after Buddy did? He seemed to want to neutralize anything Buddy did.
I don’t see Perry ever taking over a game. But I see the potential of Frank, Devonte or Wayne doing it. I think they need to be made aware that if the situation is there, to grab it! They should know that it isn’t about being selfish. It is actually more selfish to hold back and play timid when your team needs your execution to win.
This is a big deal. Because at some point, we will be in a situation where we need more from one of our top guys. When just one guy on our team has the right advantage to bring us a victory. The groundwork has to be done now. All our guys need to be educated on this because otherwise they float along with the counter opinion that taking over a game isn’t playing team ball.
I guarantee you that Buddy is a team player. He would give the shirt off his back to any of his teammates. Or if Lon told him to not shoot once in a game, he would happily oblige him.
Moving forward… we need to be prepared for just about anything. The more scenarios we prepare for, the more potential we have to win with a higher margin for error.
I like that… EJ vs ISU
The problem with having one “go to guy” is there is a tendency for everyone else to stand around and wait for that guy to do something. Also, having 4 or 5 guys that can get their own shot makes it much harder for the other to anticipate who is going to make a move.
I’m not stating that we need to restructure the team and have one guy take a disproportionate amount of shots.
But we will be in a game where just one of our guys has a big match up advantage and is hot.
Shouldn’t that player take the opportunity in front of him?
I’m mentioning this because I see this as potentially one of our ways of losing, especially in March.
We lose a game where one of our guys is red hot but the rest of the team is ice cold… yet our red hot guy only scores 14 points. He was our high scorer and he took control of our team, but he didn’t go further and take over the game.
I’m not talking about a regular strategy we should adopt. I’m talking about a very specific scenario that we will probably find ourselves in at some point this year.
Will we have it figured out to focus more on our one guy opportunity, or will we force our focus on team ball when team ball isn’t working?
I look at this team as a team with situational go to guys. What I mean by that is that each of the players appear to be more than one dimensional and that there will be times throughout a game where each will have the opportunity to take over.
The key will be the two guards find the right player who has the mismatch each time and drive it home. that relieves us of having to rely on one or two guys to take over a game to save us as it is really about matchups.
Not certain if that makes sense or not, but I look at it as a bunch of mini battles throughout and if you consistently take advantage of those slight advantages then you wind up placing yourself in a winning position. With the diversity in skills each of our players has it makes those mini battles all the more winnable.
The key is to not implode like we did against MSU.
@drgnslayr Of course, but I am referring to games where we are down 2 and need a basket. This sort of thing could happen in the tournament. We have Frank, Wayne, Devonte, Perry, and to an extent Hunter if he is in the game, though he is not as potent as the others, but does stretch the floor because teams know he can shoot. So that is all five guys that you have to guard everywhere (despite what Seth Greenberg says). But yes you are right. If I guy is hot, keep going to him. But in crunch time, we have several options.
wissoxfan83 last edited by
@wrwlumpy We want to be the team to beat in April!
I think I know what you mean and I agree.
But I don’t think that addresses the very specific situation I am mentioning. Where we just have one guy red hot, and everyone else is playing subpar offense. I know we should never give up an open guy under the basket to throw it out to a red hot guy on the perimeter…
I am just feeling like some of our guys get hot and they don’t exploit it out like they could. Sometime I would like to see one of our guys who is hot say “stop me, or I will continue to beat you down.”
Maybe we won’t even face this exact situation this year. But there are other times that I think we are already suffering from our red hot guys not cashing in their total prize. Some people call this “lacking the killer instinct.”
I can’t recall the details of the MSU game now, but maybe that is what we lacked in our only loss.
@drgnslayr I am with you now.
That guy is probably Selden. I have seen him in the game often turn to Frank and tell him to get him the ball.
I do agree that we don’t ride the hot hand as much as perhaps we should and that may be in part because we DO have so many options.
I think if you were to boil it down who would you want taking the last shot of a game for the win. In 2008 prior to the season starting everyone was saying we didn’t have a guy who we could turn to for that shot. I disagreed and said it was Chalmers. I happened to be right then. (Have to talk up the times you are right you know.) This year I think it is Selden and then perhaps either Ellis or Graham - yes Graham.
Just my view of it
JayHawkFanToo last edited by
Coach mentioned that players are passing shot just to give it to another player that is in better position…this the epitome of team play and one of the reason why KU is shooting such a high percentage from outside…they are being more selective and taking better shots. I like it.
wissoxfan83 last edited by
@drgnslayr I liked what you said about the USA Today article. The media jumps on more bandwagons than a junior high boy! We got a home court boost against OU, otherwise, do we lose? Maybe, more likely? Even though OU lost, to go into our gym and come as close as they did makes them the team to beat!
@drgnslayr team ball always works! Doesn’t mean you don’t feed that hot hand. Basically that’s why we haven’t subbed in the 2nd half.
@Crimsonorblue22 What is this team ball you speak off?
@globaljaybird You and Rascal need to read this article, if only the first paragraph about the best player. Should make Rascal’s head swell and puff-up his chest.
@brooksmd Thanks mrbrooks - yeah it sure did–that is, Rascal & not me…LOL
Coincidentally when I got out of the truck to head in the store this am, a man got out of his at the same time carrying a double arm load of white & brown English Bulldog. just cutern’ hell & of course when I walked in behind the couple I ewed & awed their pup but swiftly whipped out to the screen saver of Rascal on the iphone. The lady chuckled & said “but mine’s cuter” Skinny as he was when we adopted him, he’s built like a tank now at about 100 lbs. I’m pretty confident he has a lot of bulldog in that adorable little (yeah right) boxer face but the muscular hips & black spotted markings of either an English or even an American bulldog. The American variety can get up to 120 lbs & are said to be stubborn like Boxers. I swear, he can be as bull headed as a donkey sometimes…except around meal time or time to ride in the truck. it must be like a magic carpet ride to him as crazy as he is about it.
I’m right with you on that!
Gosh… just last year I was petrified every time Wayne drove the ball. He was always out of control and would usually either dribble off his leg or get called for a charge or whatever. He was always out of control.
He isn’t usually out of control this year and when he gets near the goal, he is almost automatic. He seems to realize now that his girth is a huge plus in the paint!
BeddieKU23 last edited by BeddieKU23
Wayne is the guy who can take over a full game. The last 2 games he’s gotten over 20 and would have had more had he not got 2 fouls in the first half against OU.
He had 7 20 pt games coming into this year. 3 freshman yr, 4 Soph yr. He’s already got 4 in 14 games, he’s finally realized he’s the big shot maker. In the 5 games he’s played 30 minutes or more he’s average a cool 21pts per game. If he can stay out of foul trouble in the first half, he’s got the chance to be a 20pt scorer in conference play.
He’s talked about his confidence being through the roof this year. And with his 3pt shot being so lethal this year and his driving/midrange game being the best we’ve seen out of him he’s the guy who can get 30 if we need it. The offense is made for him to succeed.
Jyhwk_InTigrtwn last edited by
I would love to see Wayne go into beast mode, break his career high of 24pts and hang 30 on some unsuspecting team in the coming weeks! Doesn’t take a whole lot of imagination to envision that scenario either.
It is fun to be a jayhawk this year.
@Jyhwk_InTigrtwn only reason he wouldn’t get 30 would be getting play time for Svi and BG. Building to April!
I hope so, too.
The only thing putting on the brakes on Wayne is Wayne.
Come on, Wayne, slide your foot off the brake and back on the gas and leave it there!
betterfireE last edited by
@drgnslayr From the past, Embiid is a clear choice.
But last game, arguably Oklahoma had 2 players take over the game while KU had 3 (Frank, Devonte and Perry). Keep in mind this is in spite of major officiating headwinds. And in the end, we had the defense to come away with the win.
Just imagine what would have happened had he not suffered the injury!
@drgnslayr - Nice post. I like the idea of having a guy taking over a game. As @DinarHawk said, this guy does not need to carry all the burden. I would love to see an alpha-guy who takes over the game by creating easy shots for others, wreak havoc opponents defense, come up with creative plays; he doesn’t have to score on his own. @Kong - understood; and we have two capable guards - all it takes is to have court vision and making the right call. they can direct others to screen, pick n roll (@HighEliteMajor - reminded me), a bunch of other plays that we saw with OU, MSU, as other posters mentioned… I have yet seen KU guards or coach Self play this team to their strengths fully; i’m referring to NC '08 team again. how many times current players failed to finish fastbreaks? A lot. To be able to take over a game, especially with amp’d up D, they can’t miss bunnies. Those misses could’ve been highlight reels had our guys have a bit of sense of where the other players are, and with a bit of creativity.
I don’t think I explained this thread well enough.
I don’t want to see us lose a team perspective. I know we have so many guys that can put up good numbers.
What I am saying… if everyone goes cold, will one guy stand up and take control to the point of owning the game?
Wayne appears to be the closest to having this ability and possible desire if things are going bad as a team.
Or what if things aren’t going bad for the team, but one guy is just blazing hot? We have seen guys like Wayne get red hot. Does he “holler for the rock?”
Big difference between us and OU. Most of OUs starters are really good at 1-on-1. We have more of a team concept, and use a combination of players to free someone up. OU does this, too… but most of their guys can do fine if just given a bit of space to take their man.
Sometimes I see our “team play” as a disadvantage. Not often… but this happens in March too many times.
What happens when our team concept isn’t working? When we are playing a team that is all amped up and we are well guarded because they also scouted us well.
What then? We try different team concept things and nothing works.
Sometimes, one guy can take over. He has an advantage on his man and he starts scoring most of the points, sometimes more than the opponents.
In the NBA, coaches don’t care how they win. They just want to win. And if one guy scores 90% of their points, they are happy to let it happen if it secures a victory.
I can see someone like Wayne go wild on an opponent. In the right situations, he is about impossible to stop (in D1).
Remember back… to many of our March losses. And we were probably running more hi/lo (but it could be more like we run now). And we had 3 guys standing in one spot the entire time on offense along the trey line… throwing the ball back and forth and nothing happened, No seams opened. The defense flexed properly over and over again… for 40 minutes. But we just kept at it and methodically lost the game.
I can’t think of any of those games where we couldn’t have won had we had a capable alpha dog start taking ownership of the game. Wigs… he wasn’t really capable in his one year.
Crimsonorblue22 last edited by Crimsonorblue22
@drgnslayr I think wiggs was trying to be a team guy, he did take over in the loss to wv. I think he wanted to fit in and not overstep his freshman position. I think you can be a team first, doesn’t mean everybody has to be a scorer. You can play together, rebound, D up, get assists, etc, but get it to the hot hand. It’s still team ball. Just know your role.
Five guys on the court working together can achieve more than five talented individuals who come and go as individuals. –Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
@drgnslayr I understand your point about team play, but I have never thought that any of our March losses resulted from the other team figuring us out or too much team play. Coming ready to play and being smart (such as one of the Morris twins having 6 turnovers against VCU) have, in my opinion, been the reasons we lost. The team that won the Big 12 tournament in 2010 is not the same team effort wise that played a week later against UNI. Totally different effort and focus. Stanford was a little different - probably had more to do to with coaching.
@DinarHawk Stanford had to do w/injured embiid. Heard these arguments to many times!
@Crimsonorblue22 Sorry I just don’t believe that Stanford was better in any way. Could have had more sets run to get Wiggins in a position to score, not just saying “oh well they scouted us well. Nothing we can do.” Not trying to bag on Self, but sometimes I think he does his best work during the regular season, except for 08 and 12.
@DinarHawk so you think he doesn’t care about post season, 'Cept for 08 and 12?
@Crimsonorblue22 I have no idea, but he had a different look on the sidelines those years. In the Michigan game, he lost control of his team - appeared more like a spectator to me. Late in that game it was important for him to be active, and well, we all know what happened.
When I think of a guy taking over, I think of Sherron.
Sometimes the results were good, sometimes bad. He seemed to have to take over too many times because some of those teams (after our NC year) didn’t have anywhere near the level of team execution we have now.
Let’s take another example.
We are playing Xavier this March. We are down by 8 with 5 minutes left in the game. This is one of Self’s true “grind games” and the score is Xavier 52, KU 44.
KUs offense is a mess. Xavier completely has us figured out and we just don’t get many open looks and we have no team flow.
Our best option on this day has been Wayne. He has 16 points and is the only one shooting a decent %. Xavier doesn’t seem to know how to shut down Wayne on his individual moves.
From this point forward, do we exploit the only offensive positive we have had all day (Wayne)? Or, at the 5 minutes mark, do we just accept that we are going home to watch the rest of March Madness?
This is also a frustration statement from me because most of the time, I can see our loss coming before the end of regulation and I wondered why we didn’t try more things and especially try to exploit perhaps the only positive thing that day.
@drgnslayr Then at that point it would be up to HCBS to recognize that and make it an emphasis to get Wayne the ball and call plays based on that.
That is definitely one way.
Or… Wayne could step up on his own and ask his teammates to specifically look for him, or run plays for him, or clear out.
I don’t think Bill would stop it from happening.
I’m just curious if someone like Wayne has thought about this already. That at some point this season he may have to step up and take over. Not because he is a ball hog or selfish. Just because he doesn’t want to lose and will carry the team even beyond just being the high scorer for KU that day. Where he just says… “okay, I’m taking this game over because I won’t leave with a loss.”
There is a lot of dynamics involved within a team. I always worry that we get too team driven. To the point where no one feels it necessary to personally stand up and fight, even if their fight feels like it is alone.
A lot of times… momentum gets going after one guy makes a play that was pretty much all his and not a team executed play.
@drgnslayr like I said earlier, feeding the hot hand is a team thing!