Can we all agree to agree?
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No, I thought not.
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I specifically disagree with you, jaybate, on the Selden versus Graham point for the last game.
I also disagree with the guys on 610 sports regarding the overreaction of some fans. The overreaction is explainable in that weāve seen this before. Itās the same as last season with no rim protection and no offensive development or creativity. Itās like watching the Chiefs throw screen passes over and over and over again. With the exception of the Trent Green era, weād been throwing screen passes in most years going back to the Montana era.
Some of us, like me, are beginning to wonder if at least SOME of it is the coaching. After all, thereās very little jerky jerky or creativity. Everyoneās just going through the motions thinking that this will work, just like in practice. This is why Wayne and Perry always get stuffed. Ever watch our guards pass it around the perimeter? Like thereās absolutely no threat to shoot or dribble. We telegraph everything we do and it makes you wonder if they feel the pressure from the coach to execute the play at all costs regardless of the situation.
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Your post was painful to readā¦ but that doesnāt mean you didnāt spell out the truth.
It really hit home with me when you played the āChiefsā card.ā Gosh that hurt. But oh so trueā¦ going on for decades.
When Schottenheimer was coaching I had to drive a lot in western Kansas. I would listen to the Chiefs games on my car radio. I would call out their plays with 90+% accuracy before the ball was hiked. I didnāt even have to watch them to predict what they were going to do.
1st down: Run off-tackle
2nd down: Run off-tackle
3rd down: Screen Pass
4th down: Punt
That was the Chiefsā¦ 9 years of Schottenheimer. It was painful.
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Selden and Graham both played so poorly it hardly matters which played worse. Judge it as you wish.
Regarding Selfās predictability, he predictably wins at such a high rate that he is about the most emulated coach in the game in his early 50s, other than Coach K.
Note: they donāt emulate Cal, because there is apparently only one WWW.
Self is so good that he can keep winning titles without great talent.
Put Calipari in Lawrence at KU with adidas and Cal would probably never get above .600.
Put Roy back in Lawrence with adidas and he wouldnāt break .600. Roy had to have the Nike/Dean/Michael/Sonny thing to recruit to KU.
Selfās predictability has risen, as his player talent has declined. The less talent and experience you have, the less you ask it to do. Less talent can do fewer thins well. Good coaches tailor what their team does to what it can do that a team needs to do to win. You donāt ask chorus girls to dance ballet. You try to help them be the best chorus line dancers they can be. This team canāt win games against ranked teams on a 20% night from Trey by shooting treys. It has to find ways to win, when the treys arenāt there, and it is rather limited in what it can do outside of Trey balling. Drive ball is about it.
You canāt win big without top tier talent. Every coach says so. Self is optimizing what he has. When he had top talent, he won a ring. When he had near top talent, he nearly won a ring. Now he has nowhere near top talent and he is winning not very near the top.
But the real driver of disatisfaction is famiarity, which breeds contempt, without a recent ring.
LB and others have said that 10 years is the life expectancy of most coaching jobs. Unless a coach is a Machiavelli that can take over the athletic department and turn it into his own fiefdom, then his welcome wears out. Those that hired him and so are invested in covering his back depart. His best assistants move on to be head coaches. He is no longer the hot new thing, or even the master that knows how to run a program and that everyone emulates. He becomes the guy who canāt change with the timesāthe guy with no more new ideasāthe guy who is too predictableāthe guy weāve all seen do it this way before. LB always recommended leaving before that happened, as soon as the getting was good. And LBās earnings as a coach make clear he understood the business of coaching well.
I believe Self intended to leave before now, but decided he had more than enough money and wanted to spend these years with his son on the team. I also suspect he wanted to get one more ring. They are apparently addictive. And he wanted to keep his assistants employed as long as he could.
Does this mean we should keep him?
No, not just for his goals.
Yes, for our goals.
We have invested deeply in him.
With a load of talent, he is a slot machine ready to pay off.
Like Roy was when Hemenway appeared to squeeze him out and Roy took over Doughertyās loaded UNC roster, a roster he couldnāt pull in at KU, and won a ring.
Instead of holding Self in contempt, because of familiarity and too little talent, KU should be finding a way out of this adidas cul de sac.
Rock Chalk!
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Itās hard being a Chiefās fan for sure but we were the 4th winningest franchise of regular season games in the 90ās.
The playoffs is where legends are made and thatās where Marty fell short every time.
And to a large degree HCBS has fallen short in the crapshoot that is the Madness. Without 2008 & 2012 he probably wouldnāt still be coaching here.
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Would Cal still be at UK without his lone ring?
Coach K was being eased out between 05-08? Would he still be at Duke without his last two rings?
Would Roy be at UNC still without his two rings there?
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Your sleep patterns appear as messed up as mine! Unless youāre in the Middle East hunting ISIS?
To answer your questions:
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Yes, Cal would still be there bc heās only been there half as long as Self.
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Yes, Consonaunts would still be there bc of the two previous titles. But he was in decline for a while w health issues and lack of talent before he got the Team USA gig which has elevated his talent immensely.
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Thatās a toughy. I assume Roy would still be there bc heās one of their own. But Iām sure there would be a small % of people calling for his replacement.
For the record, I donāt want hcbs replaced. I love the guy! I just wish he was would free the three and play Mick and Bragg over Lucas & Jam Tray!!!
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Re 1: UK ran Gillispie in 3 and forced Tubby out with a ring.
Re 2: Consonants would have been long gone without the last two rings.
Re 3: See Bill Gutheridge and Matt Doherty quick hooks without rings at UNC.
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@betterfireE I completely disagree. The screen pass started in KC back when Len Dawson was QB, and Otis Taylor was his top wr.
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@KUSTEVE Hey, Stranger, welcome home! Just yesterday, someone on this site was asking about your whereabouts.
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At the moment, I stand with VailHawk in his thesis to Free the 3 and to Play Mick and Bragg. Gotta devise ways for Greene to wield the difference.
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I was born in 1971 so the Chefs havenāt made the SB in my lifetime thus dramatically lowering my expectations!
The Jayhawks however have a couple titles and a bunch of final fours which are so ADDICTIVE thus raising our expectations for titles.
Itāll be interesting to see what peopleās expectations are for the Royals over the next decadeā¦
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As long as the Royals keep their current management (Moore and Yost) I think it is safe to say they will be playing winning baseball for many years to come. Those two make a great combinationā¦ and then add in Eiland for pitchingā¦ wow!
These guys know what it takes to win. We played every player in this World Seriesā¦ we had depth beyond depth.
I think we were so good late in games because of our depth (and also our guys never gave up!).
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@VailHawk said:
Your sleep patterns appear as messed up as mine! Unless youāre in the Middle East hunting ISIS?
To answer your questions:
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Yes, Cal would still be there bc heās only been there half as long as Self.
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Yes, Consonaunts would still be there bc of the two previous titles. But he was in decline for a while w health issues and lack of talent before he got the Team USA gig which has elevated his talent immensely.
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Thatās a toughy. I assume Roy would still be there bc heās one of their own. But Iām sure there would be a small % of people calling for his replacement.
For the record, I donāt want hcbs replaced. I love the guy! I just wish he was would free the three and play Mick and Bragg over Lucas & Jam Tray!!!
Agree wholeheartedly! Free the Three! Play big Mick and Bragg who are better than Lucas and Tray.
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