OK, so a little confused, ok maybe- - -ALOT confused
Jayballer54 last edited by Jayballer54
OK, so ya I know it’s early Saturday and I’m not all the way awake yet, But I need your guys help. I just read in the L.J.W. the article which included recruiting and it had info, although the same things we already knew, but this was on Schnider, Herard. Was talking about the time table for him to announce, But here is the thing. Then it came out and said KU had lessened their efforts I recruiting him in the last couple of weeks, and looked like he was pretty much done deal for Mississippi State. Now to that my question is - - - WHY? Yes, I understand he isn’t the highest profile, or maybe most talented, but I for sure know there is definitely worse out there & on top of the fact is that , him and Azubuike is the only 2 TRUE fives we are recruiting right? So if we backed off him then, I guess does that mean maybe the coaches feel like we are in really great shape with Azubuike or what? If Bolden should end up committing he is not really a true 5, he is more of a 4 although probably could play the 5 although I’ve read where he wants to play the 4 and I’m sure the coaching staff has told him that he would play the 4. So there is where I need help understanding why. Again the only thing I can figure is, either they feel Azubuike is coming, although everything I’ve heard looks like he is going to Flordia State, or they think Bolden is coming, help me understand guys. Thanks ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
jaybate 1.0 last edited by jaybate 1.0
They got Lightfoot, and like him, so they are zeroing in on one or both of Az or Bolden?
And Diallo is coming back? Because he won’t clear this season?
VailHawk last edited by
Can you speak of the rumors of your involvement with the ncaa clearinghouse?
Or is it publishers clearinghouse?
Crimsonorblue22 last edited by
@jaybate-1.0 I think we get bolden.
Texas Hawk 10 last edited by
@jayballer54 The 4/5 distinction has absolutely no bearing on how Self recruits. A true 4 or 5 are interchangeable in Self’s offense so if Self backed off of Herard, that had no bearing on it. There’s a lot of statements out there that Herard wants immediate PT and thay he sounds pretty entitled. KU can’t guarantee a lot of PT for Herard, but MSU can offer a lot more PT because of theor front court situation. This probably has a lot more to do with why Self backed off Herard than his position did.
HighEliteMajor last edited by
I think if Self backed off on Herard it is because it would negatively impact our pursuit of a better player. I’m sure Self would gladly take Herard and one of the other guys. So I’m not sure why Self would back off just because Herard might want more P.T. (unless Herard is a complainer or something). Wouldn’t Self just say, “this is our situation and we’d be glad to have you?”
@Texas-Hawk-10 - Why do you say that the 4/5 distinction “has absolutely no bearing on how Self recruits.”
Personally, all I want from Self in the post is to make his first focus ensuring we have at least one post player with stellar basket scoring ability, as his system seems dependent upon it.
Jayballer54 last edited by
@Texas-Hawk-10 not sure why they couldn’t give him the time he wants. Ellis is gone, Traylor, is gone, Mickelson is gone, and even if Diallo gets cleared he will be gone. So with that being said who is there to man the 5 spot? and there is some difference between 4 & 5 because Herard is a 5, 5, 5 for sure and nothing but a 5 a back to the basket type pure 5 player, don’t even believe he is capable of the 4. I dunno guess that’s why Coach Self is there and I am here lol
konkeyDong last edited by konkeyDong
Herard, it sounds like, will indeed be a lock for MSSU now. I was favoring KU for the pick because Norm gets coffee, and coffee is for closers. If he’s not closing, though, Herard will wind up with Howland. That’s not the end of the world, of course. Norm has been back to see Azubuike, and it turns out he and Lightfoot hit it off in a big way on the visit. UNC and NCState pose real challenges there, but I think that’s why you’re seeing KU back off Herard. We’ve also made up a TON of lost ground on Bolden, and he is by far our most important recruit.
Whether he clears or not, Diallo is more than likely gone. Even though he only projects late lotto, he’ll have more to lose by returning to KU than by throwing his hat in the ring right now. Even more so if he fails to clear. Exposure will just magnify his rawness, and as he gets older, that will make him less attractive to scouts. His upside is his greatest asset.
Over the summer I posted what I thought an ideal recruiting class would look like and who I liked for each spot. Here’s my revised version based on who we have left:
PG: None - Fox is all in on UK. KU would be the pick otherwise, without a doubt, but UK exists and Cal is still there, so that’s what we’ve got. In the end, it will only matter if Mason or Graham has a good enough season that they can make the leap, and if that happens, I think we’ll be partying like it’s 2008, so who will care if we miss on a replacement?
SG: Rawle Alkins - A solid combo guard and likely McD’s AA. He’s picking late, so if we lose both Selden and Svi (or any other combination of back court players), we have a really good shot at landing him. He’s a NY kid and Norm’s the man, especially in the Big Apple.
SF: Josh Jackson - He’s deciding late too and his recruitment is up in the air. A slightly less athletic, slightly better shooting version of Wigs, landing him would be a big coup and the reason to keep Townsend around. For a while MSU and Maryland were generating buzz, but I think it’s settled back to Arizona being the leader. He’s a guy we can land regardless of how Selden and Svi plays out.
PF: Bolden - Like I said, we’ve regained our mo in this recruitment. Giles is picking Duke. There’s just not going to be any surprise there, and that will kill Bolden’s opportunity to be the 4 (if it ever existed, since K is known to play 3s there a lot). We can offer Bolden starting minutes in what amounts to a 2 PF front court offense and that’s going to swing things back in our favor. If Snacks did the work, that will buy him a reprieve, but if another coach had to step in and salvage this relationship, Snacks gotta go! Jarret Allen is a viable alternative.
C: Azubuike - Backing off Herard, we’re pretty much all in on this kid although, as with Bolden, Allen is a viable alternative. Norm’s doing the work. I don’t know if he’s put up a time table yet, but he’s either near or at the end of his visits, so I imagine he’s not going to drag things out. Azubuike, like Bolden is a 2-3yr kind of kid. Udoka has great strength and good athleticism, though he should probably drop a little more weight to improve his mobility so he can defend like a true 5. He needs to add back to the basket moves as well.
Texas Hawk 10 last edited by Texas Hawk 10
@HighEliteMajor When Self’s recruiting the true low post spot, whether the player is a true 4 or a true 5 doesn’t matter because they have the same function within the offense. D-Jax and Landen Lucas were/are used in the same way that Cole Aldrich and Jeff Withey were. Only difference in their roles were the letter next to their name. That’s why the 4/5 distinction has no bearing on how Self recruits the low post position.
@jayballer54 I don’t viable scenario in which Herard starts next year unless Bragg leaves early (and there’s no reason to predict now). Assuming Bragg is back, there’s also not a reason to believe Herard would play ahead of Landen Lucas. KU’s also not done recruiting and is probably going to land one of the three of Allen, Bolden, or Giles with KU, UK, and Duke each getting one of them. Bolden is most likely to head to Lawrence and is a better player than Herard. So right now, Herard figures to be the 4th in the front court rotation at best. That doesn’t even factor in Cheick Diallo’s situation.
Miss St. doesn’t have near the competition in the front court because they don’t have near the talent KU does so there’s a lot less potential competition for Herard to compete with at this point.
JayHawkFanToo last edited by JayHawkFanToo
First, Coach Self does not usually promise playing time to any player, they have to earn it. Second, Herard apparently wants guaranteed playing time; however, he is ranked way too low to be demanding playing time, he is currently ranked #67 by ESPN and this is probably fairly representative of his ranking, although I have seen him ranked higher,and lower. Players ranked that low do not make demands and will likely not be super stars but more fittingly role players.
BeddieKU23 last edited by
Herard’s ranking has no bearing on whether he would play next year. It has everything to do with him being a project player. He’s played basketball only a few years, there’s valid concerns about his effort & weight for that matter. He needs a coach who’s going to push him & hopefully he will be a guy that can mature in a program to maximize his talent.
His ranking in the top 100 is more to do with the weakness in the class overall at the position & the upside he does possess if he’s able to develop. There’s a lot to work with if he can develop offensive skill and learn to play hard all the time. That’s a common weakness for a lot of HS kids, its hard to motivate them at that level.
KU must have liked the longterm value of Lightfoot better. He seems to have a mature approach to the game, something that the staff must have valued.
Howland needs bigs, he’s got I think only 2 posts on the team past this year so he could obviously sell Herard playing time. I think that if Lightfoot hadn’t chosen KU, Herard would have seen more pressure from the staff to come here. I think KU took the safer player with high character, & he seems like a hard worker which may be a trait that helps him become a valuable player for KU down the line.
I wish Lightfoot was bigger, & had a more advanced body to expect that he can play next year but that’s really not the case. Herard because of his size, would have a been a body that could play as a freshman but he’s just very raw from a BBIQ standpoint. I think we won’t know for years which prospect has the better career, but because Lightfoot is a jayhawk & Herard seems unlikely to be one I’ll be rooting for Mitch.
Jayballer54 last edited by
@konkeyDong just a little side note, I’m not sure if this was what you were talking about on time table but for what it’s worth I have seen where Udoka. Azubuike is going to announce in December as to where he will commit. would be a nIce catch. ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
HighEliteMajor last edited by
@JayHawkFanToo I love the word “usually” – are you referring to the Oubre rumor or anything specific?
I can’t believe that Self doesn’t guarantee at least a role. Meaning with a Bolden for example, that he’ll be part of the rotation assuming X, Y and Z. That is different that guaranteeing minutes.
My orthopedist friend is friends with a KU assistant coach – he (the orthopedist) said that the assistant said that playing time demands are the most difficult thing to deal with when things get close to decision time. Not earth shattering information, but it is a big deal with players. I read Biancardi talking about that a while back too.
Herard could be making playing time demands, and that might just lead him to Mississippi St. The #67 player could demand time at KU. He could demand a trip to the moon, too.
By the way, Jerry Meyer just changed is crystal ball prediction to KU regarding Marques Bolden.
jaybate 1.0 last edited by
“The #67 player could demand time at KU. He could demand a trip to the moon, too.”
JayHawkFanToo last edited by
What I have hear in the past is that Coach Self offers prospects an opportunity to earn playinmg time but does not guarantee it. The two that are rumored to be given assurances were Wiggins, who did not ask, but it was a no brainer that he would get substantial minutes, and Oubre that apparently was promised he would inherit Wiggins minutes like you mentioned and hence my “usually” caveat.
If Herard is demanding minutes, he might as well go elsewhere, since as we both noted, a #67 ranked player is in no position to demand playing time at an elite program such as KU.