How Bad Can This Get?

  • How bad can this get?

    What if Perry turns pro?

    What if we don’t sign anymore 5-star recruits?

    What then?

    We have to sign someone for next year.

    What then?

    And if we have to go from 5-star recruits to 1-star recruits… aren’t we going to become the biggest joke this summer representing our country?

    I heard Self promoting the games. He says he’ll take all our scholarship guys except Svi. How much room is left for players like TRob? If we don’t land some star talent won’t we be relying A LOT on star players we can bring back? What great benefit will this do for our team next year? Travel around sitting on the bench watching older KU players play? How many slots will remain open and who are we going to bring back to save us? I’d be happy to make a fake ID for Paul Pierce.

    We need Frank to spend all summer in a Swiss Spa to recoup from last year and re-energize for next year.

    I’m sensing this great opportunity could go sooo sooo wrong.

    Kentucky needs 7 McDs AAs to replace what left, Duke needs at least 2. You mean, we are going to pry several top players away from these teams? Seriously?

    Every day of silence and no announcements goes by and the nerves build. Drake and Ashley Judd are crossing America for Calipari right now in a tour bus, I don’t care what the NCAA rules are… that is the reality.

    Is it too late to rescind our request to be “America’s Team?”

    Does anyone in here realize how good some of those Int’l teams will be? And tall… and wide… and skilled… always good passers… and shooters…

    We can still provide the cheerleaders. Their top notch!

  • @drgnslayr Thor did graduate!

  • @drgnslayr Serious question. In your opinion, why do kids want to go to Kentucky or Duke instead of Kansas?

  • It could get pretty bad. If Ellis goes. And we don’t sign anyone else(which I think will be the case) we will have trouble keeping the tournament streak going and most definitely kiss the lil12 streak goodbye… With the schollie openings at UK and Duke. I don’t see us getting anyone else . Hate to say that. But the facts are certainly there. We don’t do as well with the OAD thing as those programs. We know it. And certainly potential recruits must also

  • @drgnslayr

    While it’s an honor I guess to have our team chosen for that tournament, I never quite understood the wisdom of sending the entire team. Elite players internationally of course have caught up to the US. Check out the Spurs roster for example.

    Injury chance increases, the potential for embarrassing blowouts exists.

    And of course, as you point out, who is going to be playing for us?

    This keep up with the Jones’ pressure on Self might force him to reconsider staying at Kansas. Why not go to OSU and coach a team in which he can recruit 50-100 rank players and not have to worry about losing 2 0r 3 guys every year?

    If we lose Perry, I can see this team next year breaking the streak and falling to the bubble.

    If he comes back, but we add no significant recruits, another crown is doable, but not a serious contender.

    If he returns and we add another couple of bigs, well, the sky is the limit!

  • @wissoxfan83 I’m trusting something good-great will happen! It is an honor to represent, coach will have a plan. As far as injuries, we had 2 guys in boots last summer. It happens.

  • @nuleafjhawk

    “Serious question. In your opinion, why do kids want to go to Kentucky or Duke instead of Kansas?”

    I can understand why they want to go to Duke. Whether or not we can appreciate him here at Kansas, Coach K is an institution all by himself… for players wanting to be “institutionalized.” Never a bad idea to go to a school full of attorneys, just in case you need one!

    Kentucky is all about Calipari. Look at how bad they fell right before they bought in to the used car salesman approach. Cal knows how to push these kids buttons and now his program has the “rep” of being where the elite players go.

    Right now, Kansas is just mimicking Kentucky. If we want to stand a chance of really competing with Kentucky for a lot of these players we are going to have to find something that DIFFERENTIATES us from Kentucky. I’ve said all along the best way, the smart way. is to develop REAL STRUCTURE to DEVELOP PLAYERS, whether they stay 1 year or up to 5. It needs to be a lot more extensive then putting them on weight lifting with Hudy. We need at least one guy who has a great rep for developing player skills. Cut one of our recruiters… maybe 2 or 3.


    “I’m trusting something good-great will happen!”

    Thanks! It always feels great when someone shares some hope!

  • @nuleafjhawk because HCBS does this.

    The other guys are like

  • Remember my Roster Apocalypse post? Kind of far fetched … was more centered on perimeter issues. I did not include the possibility of Ellis turning pro.

    Right now, though, we have the possibility of going to battle with Bragg, Mickelson, Lucas, and Traylor in the post. What if Diallo goes elsewhere, and Thorne chooses Illinois?

    And talk about a complete waste time, Thon Maker’s camp is suggesting he might not enroll until the second semester, play a few months, then turn pro.

    I would feel much better if we simply had a nice post player becoming a sophomore or junior with at least some back to the basket talent, and perhaps another 15-80 range guy coupled with Bragg in this class. Or even two guys that were not quite Bragg’s McDonald’s AA level if we didn’t land Bragg – again, the Texas A&M example.

    I completely understand why these kids are doing this – they are trying to do what’s best for them. Zimmerman’s mom is trying to do what’s best for him. But those interests conflict with the Kansas basketball’s best interests. More power to them, but more power to us.

    Yea, I want Diallo and Thorne both. Mainly because I’m hopeful not to see Traylor on the court much next season. But I wonder if Self would make a shift in his approach if the Roster Apocalypse did hit with regard to post players? In the long term, would that ultimately be best for Kansas if it caused a change in our approach?

  • @drgnslayr 11 consecutive conference championships.

    Again and again, posters on here have commented about KU getting another conference championship. Now you’re asking “How Bad Can This Get?”

    If the most important part of the season is another conference championship, it seems to me that the recruiting concern should be who Iowa State and Oklahoma are getting. And it appears that none of the recruits is anxious to come to Kansas to win another conference championship.

    If a conference championship is most important, then no one should be concerned who Kentucky and Duke are getting–and we’re not.

    I’m with HEM. The ONLY thing that matters is how far we get in March/April.

  • @drgnslayr Sometimes I really think I should have been born maybe 30, 40 years before I was. Honestly. I have an appreciation of older things and older ways. I don’t own a cell phone!! So you know I’m serious! lol

    I’ve been reading these books about KU and I just really enjoy (and am envious of) the way things were. (That sounds like a song/movie). I guess I really don’t know how Bill Self is as a person, how he really interacts with these kids, but I love the stories of how Roy (and others) really took these kids under their wings and how they continue to interact to this day. I mentioned this in another post somewhere, but kids from Clyde Lovellette to …I don’t know Raef, Jacque, Adonis, really every kid that I’ve read about that was recruited by Kansas clear up to the last one recruited by Roy - they ALL said how they wanted to come to KU because of the family atmosphere, the fans, the tradition, the history - no mention of improving their NBA stock or because KU wore a certain brand of uniform / shoe.

    Sigh…the good ol days.

  • @Wigs2

    I’m focused on what is directly in front of us… Int’l ball. This could be a monstrous embarrassing situation for the Kansas brand. We are representing our entire nation and to be honest, I don’t see how we are going to come out of this with any dignity left.

    Remember what Kentucky did to us last year? Imagine that happening several times in Korea before our plane ride home?


    Great post, my friend! I have regular contact with probably half my former teammates from one team, and our coach. I never go a month without seeing some of these guys. I never served in the military, but I imagine it to be similar to some of the bonds those guys form. And the level of ball we played was nothing near the level played at Kansas. You nailed it… what the game SHOULD be about. Kansas basketball SHOULD be about the bonding of relationships, the connection of players, coaches and fans. It should be a reason to bring people together. And now it looks more like a clearinghouse for the NBA.

  • @drgnslayr well shit! Let’s just stay home!

  • @Crimsonorblue22

    Sorry… I just want to express that we shouldn’t be looking past this summer. We have to take care of business, and we have some very important business coming our way this summer.

  • @drgnslayr does your wife ever call you the “P” word?

  • @Crimsonorblue22

    Not yet! I thought she was going to do it one night about 3 years ago when I woke up in the middle of the night in grimacing pain from a kidney stone. Instead… after she realized how bad the pain can get from these stones I think she gave me a free pass.

  • @Crimsonorblue22

    The sun is shining… and I should be outside tending to my garden right now. But my mind is churning and churning about this summer. Please tell me to go outside!

  • @drgnslayr Just think about how every challenge is an opportunity.

    Maybe Hunter will figure it out. He showed flashes. I think we know what Landon is at least that is consistent. Maybe Svi grows 2 inches and puts on 30 pounds (it happens to 17-18 year olds!).

    There is still a lot of hope for next year. We have strong guard play with FM and DG. Selden, Svi, and Greene round out a not terrible five man rotation at the 3 guard spots.

    Perry is coming back. He is. I know it. Or at least I think so. He probably will be here.

    Go OUTSIDE! Stress is your body preparing itself for action. It is a good thing! Use it!

  • @drgnslayr That’s awesome that you keep up with your old teammates. It’s funny - the friends that I made in my teens and 20’s - I still keep up with many of them, though we’re MILES apart. And even the ones I don’t stay in contact with, I still have a very special place in my heart for them. I think I’ll go watch The Wizard of Oz now…

  • @benshawks08 amen!

  • @benshawks08 @Crimsonorblue22

    Thanks… I needed to hear that.

    I just put my garden shoes on and I’m ready for action!

    Going to plant figs today.

  • @drgnslayr then get started on my yard!

  • Currently we have two scholarships to fill. NCAA allows for up to 13 scholarship players and we can only take 12 to the games.

    If we get really lucky and fill out our roster we have a few scenarios.

    If we fill it with players born in the US then everyone that’s a scholarship player minus Svii could represent Kansas and the US in the WUG.

    If one of those guys is Diallo then we would have a roster spot for a former player or one of the current walk-ons. (I vote former player)

    If Perry were to leave he could still play on the team this summer as long as the team that owns his rights is down with it. But if Perry is drafted he will more than likely be playing in NBA summer league games.

    Orlando is July 4 to 10 and then Vegas is 10 to 20. The WUG is July 3 to 14.

    Any players like Kelly, Cliff, former guys trying to impress NBA squads will probably be playing in Orlando, Vegas, or both.

  • Things just got worse: Learned Hall nuclear reactor melts down… Allen Fieldhouse radioactive for 10,000 years! Developing…

    (Note: All fiction. No malice.)

  • @jaybate-1.0 let’s hope slayer is outside!

  • Seriously, it appears Self has the bases covered even in worst case.

    Perry will probably jump. That nose punch made playing for money NOW the only reason for a high IQ kid to keep playing at all. Otherwise he phones a senior season in and goes to Oxford with a phone call from the right person.

    Self will bring in 3 new bigs–Bragg, Diallo , Thorne–and Jaylen Brown to replace Oubre.

    If Perry stays, Brown to UK and Perry to 3 if Greene struggles next step up.

    This team will get the new bigs a bunch of work at WUG, ensure a quick start, and a big man rotation sure to win another conference title and a 1 or 2 seed and a sweet 16 or elite 8.

    I don’t expect any KU grads to play at the WUG, unless someone were trying to work from an injury, like Rose last off season.

    The problems that will remain? Not enough footers to deal with the four footer rotations at the Nike stacks and referee bias the last ten minutes of every second half against the Nike stacks.

    Hypothetically speaking, there apparently won’t be any more unselected NCAA winners till Big Shoes reach a new oligopolistic arrangement, and till Big Agents get rid of the current generation of coaches at unconquered elite programs via designer scandals and recruiting starvation and get their guys in as coaches. This is APPARENTLY ALL about controlling market share and pinch point franchises. Pretty simple really. Just took awhile to wade through the OLD THINK and misinformation.

    Rock Chalk!

  • Just wondering if yall saw this??? Charlotte post player Mike Thorne is now receiving interest from Kentucky. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

  • Next season will be bad if Perry goes Pro. I’m not sure if it will be miss-the-NCAA-tournament bad, but it won’t be good by KU standards.

    The scary thing is that Selden has not made his intentions for next year clear. Is he still pondering leaving? As much as some like to bag on Selden, he’s still an important part of the team and is in line to have a solid, if not good season next year.

    But yeah. Self has botched front-court recruiting the past couple of seasons. He’s entering near-crisis mode…

  • @jaybate-1.0 UK is losing all 4 of their footers and right now only have one committed. So even if they get Zimmerman and Maker, that is still 3. Not that that is a whole lot better but I think the platoon system from this year will not be feasible again this year for Cal and the boys. This year was Cal’s 2012 repeat and he blew it. How did 2013 go for him? Because that will be the best comparison for this years team. If they stay healthy they will win the SEC and be a probable elite 8 to final four team. But they will not survive an injury like they did this year.

    Jaylen Brown has alluded to an adiddas lean so he is possible. I really hope we get Diallo. Thorne would be a pleasant surprise in my opinion. Perry is staying. Just like Rush, he has to come back and prove that his knee can be at least serviceable. He may suffer a few more bows though with Weber in desperation, Huggy being Huggy, and Smart looking to make a name at a Big 5.

  • everything points to Perry staying at this point - a lot of upside factors if he stays and tries to improve his draft stock which is very low right now - plus I think he actually enjoys school I’ve been surprised before, but this would be a new level of surprise if he bolts to become a late 2nd rounder now just don’t see it making any sense

  • @Statmachine saw that, does that mean the bigs are NOT going to kensucky?

  • @stupidmichael I’m not saying self has botched, some really bad crap happened out of his control. Jmo

  • Have a little faith; Coach has done it before and he will do it again…trust thy Self!

  • I’ve been outside… all is restored now! Getting ready to go back out!

    Thanks everyone for pulling me off the edge!!!

  • @drgnslayr Maybe I’m in the minority here, but I don’t care about the perception of how we do at the WUG. I couldn’t care less if Josh Pollard and Tyler Self play 30-35 minutes a game and we lose by 40. The world games only matter in how well they prepare the team for March and April 2016. The potential recruits don’t care and neither does anyone else in the U.S. outside of Kansas.

  • @Wigs2 I pretty sure Self and the rest of his squad care!! I sure do.

  • @Wigs2

    I am with @Crimsonorblue22 in relation to the importance of the upcoming games; KU will get a lot of exposure that could help the program. We had discussion in the past on whether coaching the National team helped Coach K with recruiting and the consensus appeared to be that it did. I am hoping that the exposure of representing the country will help KU as well.

  • @drgnslayr no doubt. our international experience could be brutal. and it could be even if Perry stays. that wouldn’t be much fun for any of us.

    but even if that happens we still get the benefit of having a summer to practice, to build chemistry, get court time in real game situations and get additional time to learn HCBS’s system.

    If there were ever a year in which we need a competitive advantage, this may be it…and while I would like for us to show well internationally, regardless of that outcome, I am thankful our team - whoever is on it - will have a chance to improve while every other college team is locked out of the gym.

    But the bigger picture here is that as fans of KU basketball…WE ARE SO FRIGGIN’ SPOILED.

    We have a nearly unprecedented streak of conference championships, we are approaching the all time record for most consecutive NCAA national tournament appearances, we have been nationally ranked for nearly every week during the past decade and a half, we rarely lose two games in a row (and almost NEVER lose three in a row), despite playing a schedule that is among the nation’s toughest every year.

    every bull market has a correction and the longer you go without that correction the more devastating the correction usually is.

    We are due for that correction… Long over due.

    Hopefully a few years from now, we will look back and ONLY going 1-1 in three or four NCAA tournaments will be the extent of our correction.

    But if not, so be it, we’re going to have to deal with it. and calling for the head or second guessing one of the great coaches in college basketball…in my opinion…is not the best way to deal with it. The old adage of being careful for what you wish for could certainly bite us in the butt when we get it.

    I too get frustrated when we make an early exit from the tournament.

    But I get even more frustrated when we - including me - let ourselves take for granted how truly fortunate we are.

    I guess I wish all of us would keep an open mind.

    And next time we are upset with a 9 or 10 loss season (after forgetting that it came against the toughest schedule in the nation while we played with xth youngest team in the country…and we try to compare it to a 3-6 loss season that came against the 50th-100th ranked strength of schedule while playing with a group of experienced and talented players) I hope we can stop and recognize that we still have it pretty good.

    and that it could get worse…lots worse.

    Let’s go 'Hawks!

  • At least we know this!

    Gary Bedore ‏@GaryBedore · 1m1 minute ago

    KU just announced that Wayne Selden Jr. will be back for his junior year. He needs to have a big year to get back on the draft board.

    Naismith Court ‏@NaismithCourt · 6m6 minutes ago
    Wayne Selden is coming back to rain all of the jumpers a foot inside the three-point line!

    Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanESPN · 10m10 minutes ago
    I feel badly for Wayne Selden - we all (myself included) blew him up the summer before his freshman year and thought he might be 1-and-done.


  • @RockChalkinTexas Good news!! Although it makes me think Perry is leaning more heavily towards testing the draft waters… Wouldn’t they have made this announcement together if they’re both coming back and skipping the weird I’m-gonna-enter-the-draft-but-might-still-pull-out phase?

  • Wayne said that a lot of good things are coming up for KU and he wants to be a part of it.

  • @stupidmichael

    Selden and Ellis are in different situations. Selden has the build to play in the NBA but has not yet mastered the technique and his basketball IQ is not quite there yet. Ellis is the opposite, he has the technique and basketball IQ but he has a physical ceiling. At this time, Selden would likely not be selected in the first two rounds where Ellis would likely go in the second and maybe even sneak into the first round, although the later is unlikely. Easy decision om Selden, on Perry? not so much.

  • @JayHawkFanToo I hope that the exposure helps too. But I’m extremely doubtful that it will.

    If I were a recruiter for. KU, I would be emphasizing the fact that we’ve been invited to the NCAA 26 straight times, that we have played in 14 Final Fours, that we have played for the championship 6 times–3 in the past 12 years, generally ranked at or near the top, that X number of Jayhawks have made it to the NBA, and that we play on Big Monday frequently.

    These kids are about one thing: exposure. They want to get to the League and want to know how KU is going to help them get there. As far as they’re concerned, nothing else matters.

  • @JayHawkFanToo Agreed. I think Wayne just wanted to get that behind him. Perry did the same thing last year.

  • image.jpg

  • Very Happy Wayne is coming back. Soon to be a 3 year starter… Just need Perry and Diallo to come on down.

  • “I’m using that last game and the season as my everyday motivation to get better,” Selden said. “I’m happy to come back to Kansas next season. This is a special place.”

    “Wayne is such a great kid and competitor and feels that there are so many things to accomplish, not only as an individual, but as a team,” KU head coach Bill Self said. “He is committed to this program and I know he’ll work his tail off to put himself into in a spot to be a high (NBA) draft pick, hopefully next year, and put our team into position to have another great year.”

    “A lot of good things are coming up for KU and I want to be a part of that,” Selden said. “We’re going to represent the USA at the World (University) Games this summer. We’re moving into new dorms (McCarthy Hall) before school starts and we’re playing in Maui (Hawaii) next year.”

  • @Wigs2

    How about this gem…

    Because of some conflicts in the international calendar for 2015, USA Basketball decided it would be best this time to select a college team to represent America in the international event.

    Deputy head of USA Delegation Craig Jonas said he looked at a matrix of criteria to help pick the college team, including five-year record (KU was No. 1), next year’s preseason rankings, returning players and last year’s RPI finish.

    “When you went through the machinery of all those factors,” Jonas said, “KU was our number one choice.”

    KU will also have extended practice time in the summer and will start the season with a lot more of that than any other team. The last time the US won gold was in 2005 and the last team finished 9th, so the expectations are not high, but KU can milk the exposure for all it 's worth. All in all a win-win situation.

  • @Crimsonorblue22 Need that kind of intensity EVERY game next year.

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