ADIDAS-WISCONSIN BEATS NIKE-UK: GREATEST SINGLE VICTORY OF THE BIG SHOE-AGENT ERA, MAYBE IN LAST 40 YEARS!
In response to @VailHawk on another thread…
adidas-Wisconsin achieved one of the greatest victories I have seen in the last 40 years. It beat Nike-UK, which was without question the team with the most draft choices on it in the last 40 years.
Bo Ryan took a 1-stack and beat John Calipari’s 10-stack.
It was unbelievable.
It made me feel incredibly lucky to have gone to both KU undergrad and UW for grad school.
I never dreamed the Buckies could get it done.
But they had Frank Kaminsky and a bunch of drivers that could also can the trey.
They had exactly what Bill Self probably hoped to have this season: Joel Embiid and a bunch of drivers that could can the trey.
Frank Kaminsky reputedly stayed, because he loved the college game.
Joel Embiid reputedly left, because he hurt his back and still had a chance to be the the third round pick.
Frank Kaminsky and his adidas-Badgers deserve to go down in the history of the game, along with the 1957 UNC Tar Heels that beat Wilt, as the greatest Giant killers in the history of the game.
In any case, it was the greatest victory by any team so far in the still early stages of the Big Shoe-agent complex era.
It was a terrible beauty to behold, because adidas-Wisconsin not only had to beat UK, for the last ten minutes of the game, but it also beat the referees that called one of the most egregiously asymmetric games I have ever watched down a stretch. Just a disgraceful job of officiating. So bad I could write a book about the last ten minutes. If no calls were the criterion for putting refs in a hall of shame, these officials would be in on the first ballot. But what’s the point of complaining anymore about asymmetric officiating. Asymmetric officiating apparently appearing to be aimed to shape outcomes of games appears now as much a part of March Madness as One Shining Moment. All I ask is that some wit on YouTube commences a trradition this year with a feed called “One Shameful Moment” that does for the seemingly bogus foul calls what One Shining Moment does for the beautiful moments of the tournament. We are so far past equitably bad officiating now it is tragic.
But back to the inspiring victory by adidas-Wisconsin and the monumentally inept loss by Nike-UK and its 10 draft choices in search of a coach.
It was a testament to how truly mediocre of a coach John Calipari was and how limited in competency his 10 stack was as a team, that they could lose to a 1 stack.
This loss makes any of Bill Self’s clunkers in the Madness seem like Renoirs.
If the refs had called a fair game, adidas-Wisconsin might have beaten Cal’s Nike-UK band of still too young with talent by 15-20 points.
But the refs didn’t call a fair game for whatever reason. Oh, but I won’t go back down that road, because so many think that calling a spade a spade regarding referees is whining.
It looked like adidas-Wisconsin just said we are going to beat Nike-UK AND the refs and we are not going to be denied.
It was a magnificient effort.
It was almost biblical.
It was way better than frying Emperor Palpatine in a plasma matrix.
It was like David kicking the big, fiercesome, but astonishingly stupid Goliath in the balls for 40 minutes before he fell over, still without knowing how he had been fallen.
IT. WAS. SWEET.
The only downside to this victory is that adidas-Wisconsin had to burn most of their energy budget to beat Nike-UK and the flipping refs.
And Nike-Duke got to play a low possession game, against one of the most ridiculously bad semi-final team efforts in modern memory–Tom Izzo’s bunch of astonishingly modest talents that made one wonder how they got this far by a fair symmetric whistle?
Seriously, Duke was sleep walking through the MSU game. They were as flat as a Bill Self team being sent out flat for the easy game of a two game series, which is exactly what Coach K did.
It was hilarious to watch Izzo try to coach a NO-Stack against a 9-stack. Izzo appeared to know his team was so out matched that he never even told his guys to bring out the tire irons and brass knuckles that he appears to have them pack sometimes. It was almost like Tom wanted to be beaten by 20 points to make sure there was a zero percent chance that anyone thought his No-stack deserved a chance to get humiliated on a larger stage. For persons that think Tom Izzo is some kind of genius, it is time to wake the flip up. Tom apparently couldn’t even adjust his belt a notch much less come up with mid game or half time fixes. His game plan appeared to be: come out and shoot four threes and then watch me stand around and yell a lot beside a stool. Tom Izzo is to NO-STACKS what John Calipari is to TEN STACKS. But I digress again. Let’s be kind and say he did find his way to the Final Four without a lot of good players and then got exposed as a gunsel with no bullets in his clip. Next.
Nike-Duke has a full tank of gas for Monday night thanks to Tom Izzo and his band.
adidas-UW has a half tank, if that…
Nike-Duke is a 9-stack.
adidas-UW is a 1 stack.
I would never again rule a team with Frank Kaminsky out of any game.
But the odds are stacked even higher against adidas-Wisconsin in this Finals against NIke-Duke , than they were against 10 stack Nike-UK.
At least against 10 stack Nike-UK, adidas-Wisconsin had a full tank and it was facing a seemingly average coach in John Calipari.
But 9-stack Nike-Duke will have a full tank and the winningest coach in the history of the game–a coach that has won rings without 9-stacks, albeit with apparent cheap-shotting before tho season.
adidas-Wisconsin has a half tank and a 1-stack.
Luckily for adidas-Wisconsin, it has Bo Ryan and Frank Kaminsky and a lot of VERY (for today’s game) experienced Badgers.
On Wisconsin INDEED!!!
How bad was the UK punch in the face no call?!?!?!
By the box score, it appears wisconsin got more of the fouls calls…shooting 20 some ft to 10 by UK. But following on KU Buckets, it seemed like the whistles were an advantage for the Cats.
@jaybate-1.0 “Buckies?” Thought Wisc was the Badgers.
Blown last edited by Blown
@brooksmd Do Badgers have Buck teeth?
Bucky Badger is the Mascot
A Former User last edited by A Former User
@Blown Well I just learnt sumthin’. lol Thanks.
One of the worst non calls was at least a flagrant 1 when a UK player hit a Wisc player in the face. Even after reviewing they didn’t call it. As @jaybate-1.0 said in his post, if the refs had called a good game it wouldn’t have been close.
This game saved me from walking the plank of College Basketball.
Totally! Don’t know how I was gonna watch Dook-UK on Monday
@VailHawk I wouldn’t have cause I wouldn’'t have given a flip.
I thought it was a flagrant 2 intentional hit to the head
Duke was given a cakewalk to this game. I hope the Badgers can pull it off.
Da UK kid still cryin’. lol
@brooksmd they r mean!!
When Roy left I cried three seperate times. I was 31 years old at the time
@VailHawk u should erase that!
Come on, I can admit to showing emotions! You’re sexist!
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Fouls at the end by UK inflated the FT margin.
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@VailHawk I had another emotion - I was TICKED. For about 5 years. Well, probably longer.
But if he had been a crappy coach, no good guy, it wouldn’t have bothered me a bit. I know I’m in the minority, but if it worked out that Roy was coming back to KU to coach, I’d figure out how to do a backflip. I love the guy - I think he’s a great coach and a better man.
The amount of no calls was at a flood tide level on both ends of the floor for UK. On defense, UK was butchering UW. And it is the first time I think I saw a team commit more uncalled fouls on offense than they did on defense.
Re-run the UK player’s completely gratuitous karate chop to the head of UW’s best trey shooter and the magical review of it by the refs. It was akin to being asked to review the Zapruder film and concluding that Kennedy lived.
The mascot is called “Bucky the Badger.”
So they are affectionately known as The Buckies.
Totally. But it is so bitter sweet. It is like film noir where John Garfield, or Robert Ryan have to fight a completely rigged fight and decide to go ahead and win it, only to have to fight again in an even more rigged fight.
Ballnoir, I am calling March Madness now.
2008 sure helped me finally forgive him. I watched the KU-UNC first half like 20 times…way more than Memphis game…
@VailHawk ha ha!
@jaybate-1.0 And yet the talking heads all seemed to ignore the shot to the head and spent more time jawing about the supposed Wisc shot clock violation.
No calls in the broadcast booth and on the floor? Hmmmm.
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@jaybate-1.0 The Harrison twins using their left arm to push their defender off them. It happened nearly every offensive possession.
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@jaybate-1.0 I couldn’t believe the calls. If that wasn’t a rigged fight against Wisconsin, I don’t know what is. Luckily, the Badgers overcame the other 5 plus 3 to end the Tucky madness,
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@jaybate-1.0 regarding the egregiously asymmetric officiating, that no call flagrant 2 against Kentucky player I forget his name. THAT pissed me off.
Just terrible call after terrible call in that game.
I will say that I was giggling pretty hard when they gave Wisconsin 2 points in what was clearly a shot clock violation.
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@jaybate-1.0 PHOF for the Zapruder film analogy.
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@jaybate-1.0 jb, I was under the impression that Wisconsin fielded a no-stack regarding McDs players. And that it was MSU with the one-stack. Whatever, it was an ultimate semi-final joy, watching that 10-stack topple. No platoon, no glory, no handshake class.
JayHawkFanToo last edited by JayHawkFanToo
The difference with the Zapruder film is that it was a grainy 8mm film taken from (relatively) far away, while yesterday they had dozens of high resolution takes from every possible angle…how that was not a flagrant foul escapes me, all I can think is that the refs got word that the checks from UK had cleared.
On a separate note, the ugly-arse Adidas unis march on to the finals.
drgnslayr last edited by drgnslayr
“How bad was the UK punch in the face no call?!?!?!”
Followed by the horrible charge call!
And then when it’s over the media focus on Hayes score after the shock clock ran out. I’m still amazed the NCAA didn’t amend the rules to 3 minutes before the end to review right there on the spot. Calipari had his trained refs trying to do it, but fortunately, the guys behind the table didn’t bite. Did anyone else catch that? How they wanted to go change it?
Or how about the Lyle breakaway travel in the first half? One… two… three… no one caught that but me? It’s a breakaway play… how does 3 refs miss that?
The Hayes call was redemption for several bad calls. I guess they don’t own all the refs, just some.
You are right to note some ambiguity involving UW and MSU stacking counts.
Frankly, I’m having a little trouble correctly defining what exactly appears to be being stacked.
In my recollection, it started out in the hyping defined as McDs, as per UK’s and media’s press kit talking points.
But then what seemed significant was that these guys were shoe-brand-related OADs and 2ADS; i.e., they came identified as likely OADs, or at least aspiring OADs, and a significant percentage of them turned into 2ADs for all manner of reasons.
Then after Pitino’s comments especially, it seemed significant that the guys were shoe brand-agent related OADs/TADs with some kind of agent and agent runner support linkage. So then I tried to think about them that way to more fittingly characterize the stacking. This was reinforced recently by Jaylen (sp?) Brown’s reputed comments reported on a reputed ESPN feed posted here recently. I emphasize reputed, because we never saw the words come out of Jaylen’s mouth–just a white card quote. The ESPN broadcasters did not appear to be their first stringers either. So: there is at least some possible reason to be wary IMHO. It is not beyond imagining that some “wrong way” types involved in recruiting were contriving and feeding the quote to ESPN to set the kid up for a smear campaign, because maybe he wasn’t staying with the program, or maybe he was considering the wrong school. We cannot do more than hypothetically speculate, because of the lack of transparent portray of these processes to fans via mainstream media outlets. Even reputed ESPN broadcasters in the reputed feed appeared surprised that Jaylen would say such a quote, not apparently because of whether the substance were accurate, but rather that he would be so candid! Why they appeared to find his quote so candid and such candor so surprising was difficult to discern IMHO. Regardless, the reputed story is out there that Jaylen plans to pick a school for shoe brand related reasons, including support relationships, which appeared perhaps to include miscellany like agent and agent runner information services, so I decided to try to think about the apparent stacking this way, at least briefly.
But then in the Madness, in the wake of Jaylen’s reputed comments, what seemed to begin to make perhaps some sense was how many certain, say, Top 15, or Top 30, draft choices a team has in a season, whether they were going to be drafted that season, or the next. After all, an agent would not make a fee for a kid being an OAD, or a TAD–those are kind of slang words of sport referring to how long a kid will be in a program, and frankly that does not seem as important as that the kid will be drafted and become formally represented for a fee, if you follow the verbal distinction… A kid being a draft choice refers to a real event in a business sense. An agent would make a fee for a kid being a “draft choice,” especially in the Top 15 to Top 30; that seemed more fitting terminology so my thinking shifted to that, as I wrote my post above.
Very subjectively speaking, from a layman’s POV, I didn’t see a single draft choice on MSU’s team likely to be drafted in the Top 15, or perhaps even in the Top 30 this season, or next, so I characterized them as a no-stack. Maybe there was one there and I missed him. You’ve got a sharper eye for that sort of thing than me, so I will defer to you, of course.
UW had one obvious draft choice this season: Frank Kaminsky. He may not be a superstar in the NBA, but the guy should be a top 30 draft choice, at least, maybe Top 15, and an important rotation piece to an NBA team, because there aren’t many footers that are legitimate three point shooters that can also guard the post. Won’t he just piss off the reputed star system in the NBA, if an NBA Superstar 5 has to go chase him to 28 feet for four NBA quarters in a playoff? I love it. All the NBA 5’s will likely band together and try to intimidate him until he is out of the league, or not making them chase him, so they don’t have to work so hard, right? Just kidding. But imagine any of the NBA teams with a great 5 suddenly pulled 25 feet from iron leaving the lane wide open to guard a trey balling footer. Its juicy to think about. I guess that’s how Dirk Nowitzki has been used to win a ring, so we can reason that it can work at that level. But there is something about Kaminsky that reads more pure 5, than the great Nowitzki, who always seemed a footer 4 to me and more athletic than Kaminsky. But it could all be semantics. I don’t know the NBA game that well anymore. Anyway, imagine what great NBA power forwards and perimeter drivers could do with no big man presence inside, because their rim protector 5 was playing chase out in three point territory on Frank. A guy like Frank Kaminsky could change the NBA without meaning to. The stretch 5. God I love it. The NBA would have to go to twin towers to rim protect and it might still not work; i.e., UK’s inability to rim protect even with footers Towns and Caulley-Stein, with Frank being the ultimate (so far) Mobile Big Man Attack Platform (MBMAP) was fascinating to watch.
But I am veering way off course.
The key definitional questions regarding the appearance of stacking are:
1.) are we talking McDs?;
2.) are we talking shoe brand OAD/TADs;
3.) are talking shoe brand-agent complex OAD/TADs; or
4.) are we talking shoe brand-agent complex draft choices?
The difficulty in defining this is not surprising. The continuing leaking out of information regarding what might charitably be called a relatively non-transparent complex of activities keeps driving the a need to reshape the language needed to talk meaningfully about it. Protean, baby!!!
@jaybate-1.0 I can’t keep track of what constitutes a component of a “stack,” but Wisconsin has 2 clear first rounders - Kaminsky and Dekker - and both are potential lottery picks. Whether Dekker declares or not is another matter. As for MSU, Dawson shows up on some draft boards in the 2nd round. I don’t know whether they were McDs, but Dekker and Dawson were both consensus 5 stars coming in - both ranked in the top 20 in their classes - they are the only 5 stars on either team. I believe Kaminsky was only a 3 star. My guess is what shoes they wear didn’t have much of an impact on these guys…
The Hayes call was redemption for several bad calls. I guess they don’t own all the refs, just some.
Or maybe what was being resolved was spread related?
Its all very mysterious to me.
I am beginning to wonder if they ought to stop calling it “a single elimination tournament” and consider calling it “a shoe brand-agent-referee complex challenge.”
And what stands out most to me today is that we are all Kansas fans and not Wisconsin fans, so we are at least modestly objective about what we were watching!
Lucy, I believe the NCAA has some ‘splainin’ tah do.
I mean the monitor-reviewed call on the karate chop to the head defies logic unless…
Hey, I’ve got it!!! There are two speeds of fiber being used to rig the stock markets, according to a 60 Minutes story, or something, right?
Well, what if the feeds the referees are viewing are being modified with special effects before they are reviewed by the refs, so the refs actually think they are not lying.
Yeee hawwwww, it might be the digital wild west in the 21st Century.
drgnslayr last edited by drgnslayr
“And what stands out most to me today is that we are all Kansas fans and not Wisconsin fans, so we are at least modestly objective about what we were watching!”
I have to be honest here. I’ve gotten to the point of hating Calipari and Kentucky so much that I almost hate them as much as I love Kansas. I admit it and I have no shame for hating the guy that is pushing college basketball into darkness.
Even though I was pulling for MSU yesterday… I’m still thrilled that we will have a REAL Championship game. Not a “franchise pro team” playing with 9 pros. It would have been really great to see a Big 10 Final. Their conference doesn’t get the respect they deserve.
But at least it gives me even more motivation to cheer on the Badgers! They are so refreshing to watch. All talent that had to be developed while in college. Not a single McDs AA on that team. I wish Kansas was still capable of developing players, but it appears we’ve decided to become a wannabe Kentucky. Wow… that could have been us yesterday!
Imagine that, JB… Imagine us having 9 McDs AAs… many of them sophomores… losing to a team without a single McDs AA! We think we are all pissed off now for underachieving?
Did you notice that there were more Wisconsin fans/players crying than Kentucky fans/players after the game? Doesn’t that say enough?
“Well, what if the feeds the referees are viewing are being modified with special effects before they are reviewed by the refs, so the refs actually think they are not lying.”
Yeah… they changed the motion graphics and Lyle kissed him on the cheek! If you look at the rules, even that should be called a flagrant 1. But seriously… I’m amazed that we don’t have a national forum on that bogus call yesterday. Those refs should go to prison. Yes… prison. Along with the announcers… who started to say a few things about it, then, no doubt, they looked up at their editor who gave them the “cut throat” sign to stop talking about it. The only explanation is the game is rigged. There is no other way to interpret that call. It was a Flagrant 1. The Hayes put back was just a missed call that they would have loved to call, but they weren’t watching the shot clock. They stopped play and they quickly discussed the potential to reverse the call.
@jaybate-1.0 The NBA only has a small number of actual 5s. Most big men are really 4s.
Dekker a Top 15-30 draft choice?
Hmm. Well, okay, if you say so. I was thinking of Dekker, as say, Mario Chalmers, in the second round.
Oh, well, that makes it 10 stack Nike-UK vs 2-stack adidas-UW.
approxinfinity last edited by approxinfinity
@jaybate-1.0 It’s nearly 24 hours later and I’m still a little giddy about last night’s game.
You think the fix is in for calls tomorrow?
I don’t know. I feel like we are in a chincy carnival with sports broadcaster barkers, and fun house mirrors distorting everything so nothing appears as it may be.
That doesn’t mean I am saying there is any cheating going on. It means that appearances of the officiating have gotten so bizarre in this fun house of a tourney that I cannot tell what is really going on.
I keep hoping I am going to see a tournament game that appears legit for 40 minutes, so I can at least not be distracted by such unsettling appearances as quasi karate chops to the head being reviewed and found not to be a flagrant 2.
I sure haven’t seen all of the games, but I’m still waiting to see one that appears legit for 40 minutes. All I am asking of the refs it to make it at least appear legit. I don’t want to know what is really going on. just at least make it appear real, whether it is, or isn’t.
It just doesn’t make sense to make all of them appear questionable; that seems like asking for trouble. Surely some game will be allowed to appear to be played straight? Maybe this one? We can hope.
I know how my reason suggests the game should go, but then my reason often gets me tricked at the carny. Never the less, here is my take. UW left it on the floor in a tough contest against UK and the refs. I also recall that Duke reputedly has a lot more talent than UW. Finally, Duke had an easy game that it was able to sub freely through and so Duke should have a lot more gas in its tank for the game. It follows then that Duke should win this game handily and put an end to Snow White Bucky’s glass slipper evening at the ball.
But there are at least two legitimate reason for the game possibly being close.
First, Duke is going to have some problems defending the rim with Okafor/Plumlee chasing Frank Kaminsky out to 25 feet on a regular basis. Duke does not seem as dominant at the 4 position, so UW should be able to drive on the Duke 4.
Second, Duke could well have an off shooting game against UW.
But those are the legit reasons Duke and UW MIGHT be close.
The probability is that Duke should wallop my Buckies.
But these Buckies seem on a mission.
And the Buckies have the greatest intangible of all: experience.
Maybe its a team of destiny.
My fingers are crossed for it to be.
Whatever, it does appear to me that if UW can get a lead the second half, this is going to come to, or at least appear to come down to, UW vs. Duke and the referees once again.
approxinfinity last edited by approxinfinity
@jaybate-1.0 I believe UW to be a team of destiny. Let the punking commence!
Mr. Dekker, would you wipe the grins off the faces of Okafor, Cook and Jones and clean the floor with them?
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This gave me a chuckle and felt appropriate for this thread…
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What do you think about this issue regarding the man that started adidas? I have thought some about it before. I am interested to read your take?
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If this is true, can’t Jews around the world put in a claim against Adidas for holocaust reparations?
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I think I have to pronounce the Company differently now. instead of “uh deed us” it would now be “Ahdee dahs” sort of like Annie Hall’s La di da.
The other Nazi tie-in might be the Company who sponsored the Final Four broadcast, Koch Industries, featuring children wearing WSU shirts shooting baskets.
I recall that Fred Koch was influential in the John Birch Society.
And I realize the Koch’s are widely known as highly active American conservatives.
But I have never heard of them being allegedly tied to the Nazis.
Have I missed something?
For what its worth, I also recall that some Koch business advertises on the court side signs at Allen Field House, also.