Give up 20+ offensive rebounds then don't expect to win...

  • You can’t give up 20+ offensive rebounds and expect to win. It goes against all laws of physics, nature and just plain common sense.

    The stat guy was generous to us because I counted 22 offensive boards.

    It seemed like all our guys kept hanging out directly under the basket, the one dead spot on the floor. The one spot where you will never get a rebound.

    It’s hard to figure this team out. We handled their pressure fairly well. Figured out the second half that once we beat the pressure take time and get a good shot. And we still lost.

    Tough loss, but I hope we learn enough from it to make it worth it.

  • @drgnslayr I’ll catch some flack for this one, but I seriously don’t think this team is smart enough to learn from a loss. And I really don’t think they care all that much. I see where Looooonardy has us as a #2 seed right now. There’s no way in H E Double hockeysticks that we’re a #2. And if we go into the tournament as that, some #15 will toss us around like a pit bull with a rag doll. In my opinion, this team just doesn’t have any ❤

  • @drgnslayr

    It was one of the weirdest basketball games I have ever watched.

    Two coaches, each with teams with holes in their games the size of Saskatchewan, WVU can’t shoot, KU can’t rebound, were just warping the limits of the game and beating the piss out of the refs, and turning it into a hog wallow game, until one team made a play ground move that went in the last possession and the other team missed a play ground cherry pick on its last possession and one group playing grab ass beat another group playing grab ass +1.

    KU looked absolutely like it was being bombarded with microwave crowd control energy that made the entire team unable to think about rebounding, or even watching the ball come off the rim.

    WVU had a press that seemed able to destroy us and a coach that refused to use it for much of the game after proving it could destroy us.

    KU had all of these great trey shooters and proved they could shoot 50% even in this hog wallow, and a coach that refused to let them shoot more than 11 treys.

    It was like both coaches were in a struggle to see who could win the ugliest game ever played, and neither was willing to pull out the weapon he had that might have won the game for his guys.

    Both coaches wanted to see their guys get down on their bellies and crawl like hogs through the slop.

    Damnedest thing I ever sat through.

    Who ever heard of giving up that many offensive rebounds?

    Who ever heard of sitting on a press that could win the game at the drop of a hat?


    Huggins and Self both need to go see a shrink about this.

  • @drgnslayr

    The official box score indicates 22 offensive and 37 total rebounds for WVU.

  • @jaybate-1.0

    I don’t believe for one second that Coach Self held them back; WVU defenders were glued to KU’s 3 point shooters in the first half and Greene, God bless him, cannot create his own shot and will shoot only when wide open, which in this game did not happen much. It was only when WVU got tired in the second half and backed off the press some that KU shooters were able to connect from 3.

  • @nuleafjhawk Dude, this team maybe a little stupid and careless at times, but they most certainly have heart. And a lot of it. You don’t fight back as many times as they have this year if u don’t have heart. I know it was a tough loss, but don’t make such outlandish statements.

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  • @ZIG My first reaction was to get defensive (unlike some basketball teams that I know) - but you’re right. I’m sorry. I get more than a little wound up over KU basketball and sometimes I need to put a lip lock on myself and just shut it.

  • Wow, when I saw this I realized that the Shiver reads KUBuckets.


  • @JayHawkFanToo said:

    I don’t believe for one second that Coach Self held them back; WVU defenders were glued to KU’s 3 point shooters

    Yep, that’s exactly what I saw too. Good D from a good team that was desperate for a win at home after losing 3 straight and not wanting to be swept by a young team on short rest on the road.

    I’ve complained here before (and have heard others say it too): "It’s not that we lost so much as the way we lost because of…fill in the blank with things like “no heart” “no energy” “bad this” “bad that”.

    Well for me, this was *not *one of those games… Two good teams in the best conference in the US played a game with many late lead changes, dumb plays and great plays. Games like this is part of what makes basketball fun to watch - not just for the blueblood programs like ours but for everyone. Kids playing their hearts out - some rising to the occasion while others don’t. And it all coming down to a bottom of the ninth, goal line stand, game on the line last second shot. This is the beauty and excitement of sports.

    There were no technicals, no indisputably multiple terrible calls favoring one team (nobody punched a guy in the head while he was down on the court… man, did you see that in the Seton Hall game??). Two good teams played their hearts out, the desperate home team won on a prayer. No, this is definitely not one of *those *games for me.

    Are we the better team? Yes. Should we have won this game? Yes. From the comfort of our instant replay, did we make dozens of mistakes? Yes.

    But… Are we still in sole possession of first place in the B12 lead? Yes. Did we all figure earlier in the year we’d lose this game? Yes. Is this team of young men not really dam fun to watch? Yes. Are we going to win the NC next year when this whole group (sans Kelly) returns next year battle tested and we look like Kensucky does this year? Looks pretty good from where I’m sitting 🙂

  • @drgnslayr I have a question for anyone who was watching more carefully than I. I deleted the game as soon as the buzzer sounded. When we had the ball and a one point lead, I though there were 30 seconds to go–this is what I may be mistaken about. If this is so, why in the world did we shoot? They would have had to foul us, and the outcome couldn’t possibly have been worse. It seems so obvious, that I know I must be mistaken.

  • @lincase ya there were only 24 seconds on the shot clock or something close to that

  • @cragarhawk Thanks, I was sure it had to be something like that. We couldn’t possibly be THAT stupid.

  • @lincase oh idk about that… You saw us just move away from the basket and let Staten have a free layup right??

  • Need to move on from this loss. This was always going to be tough but we almost won it. Back to work now! image.jpg

  • Of course, my take is a touch different. Here’s my view:

    1. Wayne Selden: From an individual standpoint, Selden was the biggest culprit last night. But we knew it going in. Unfortunately, he played 32 minutes. He can’t handle the ball. He contributed nothing offensively. Self said he sat Cliff because this type of game was “too much for him”. This type of game was too much for Selden. I have noted Selden’s uptrend, which has continued through last game. This game exposed him further with the ball. As Self said, he’s a “big wing.”

    2. Devonte Graham: For all of Self’s talk about wanting ball handlers in the game – this is how we play best, is what he said – Graham’s minutes were limited. He would have been a better option than Selden.

    3. Offensive Scheme: Here we go again. Talking about offensive scheme is, well. offensive. Please trust me here, folks. I beg you. Go look at my post on Sunday about how we schemed differently and adjusted against Baylor, changing our zone attack. My mind is completely open – I want it to happen. We were 6-11 from three last night. Just 11 attempts. Most everyone agrees that it is our best offensive weapon. The typical response is the as noted above in posts – basically, “don’t tell me that Self is stopping guys from shooting threes.” That is not the point. The point is that we are doing nothing schematically to get three point looks. Two different questions. I rewatched the game bright and early this morning, sound off so it wouldn’t wake up my wife. This is what is killing this team offensively from a macro perspective. Each game we can say “we didn’t rebound”, or “we turned the ball over”, or “we missed free throws.” Those ebb and flow. Something different every game. The scheme, though, is constant.

    4. Brannen Greene: The point above was made that Greene can’t get/create his own looks. Exactly. He can’t. He needs the coach’s help.

    5. Type of Game: This was an up and down kind of game, so if we can get layups, we should take them – over three pointers. No doubt. But how many real opportunities did we get? Self had said we wanted to attack the press. Huggins thought otherwise. He cut off our down court passing lanes – I mentioned yesterday that we liked to attack with passes down the sidelines and wondered if Huggins would shut that down. He did.

    6. Greene Light?: Fran said that Greene has the “green light.” Try again. For those that think Self isn’t discouraging them from shooting threes, go back and watch after Greene’s lone three point attempt (yes, the guy that is the nation’s best shooter played 12 minutes and got one three point shot). After Greene shoots, way early in the shot clock, and misses, watch Self yell at him. We all know what he was saying, right? Self was mad. Greene nodding. As Greene has said, we can shoot “within the flow of the offense.” If a Greene hits the shot, Self says nothing. He misses, and you get the negative reinforcement because it’s early in the clock. Stated another way, does anyone think that Mason, Greene, Oubre and Selden can take an open three whenever, wherever? Without running the offense? Come on. Self has pulled Oubre in prior games for shooting an open three early (and missing). He sat Mason immediately after one, too. The infamous quick hook.We know coach Self, don’t we? Reactionary much of the time to negative results – not choices, but results.

    7. End Game Screw Up I: I had no problem with pressure at the end. Actually mentioned it before it happened on the cjonline blog. It’s the right move. But Self went with man pressure AND … and this is a big AND … he tried to deny the ball coming inbounds. The tactics combined get you out of position very easily. Case in point, last night – Self said after the game that “it was on me.” But then he also blamed the execution – the execution obviously was blown, but it was a very risky set-up. He knows that. Self knows what happened and why. The much, much better plan was to apply token pressure to eat a bit of time, then flex back and trap softly. I saw where Fran something to that effect this morning. It’s text book. Self ran a riskier scheme solely to deny Staten – the rule of unintended consequences reared its ugly head. Remember, even if we win, it’s still a bad call – like betting $1000 on number 12 in roulette. If you win, great … but it still wasn’t logical. I don’t understand that set up.

    8. End Game Screw Up II: Of course, the two guys near the bucket have to stop the penetration. That was inexplicable. I have no idea what Ellis was thinking there. Self has a right to be very upset with that. I junior high player stops that penetration. Brain cramp. Now, Staten could have dumped it off, or drew a foul, but we go back to what is the best play. Best play is to stop the pressure. We could still lose.

    9. Jamari Traylor: He is really trying his best. He just isn’t very good. I understand completely with pace of game, why Cliff sat. It’s just too bad that a team can put one of our best players on the bench solely by their scheme – notice the importance of scheme. @Jesse-Newell noted during the game that Traylor looked like a “rag doll” on the defensive glass, and also said “So hard for KU to get a defensive rebound with Traylor in. 11.4 D-board % has to be close to worst ever for a Self big at KU.” I could only see that Wesley might have been worse. Traylor is what he is. But he is such a liability. And he is pretty poor much of the time defensively. I would have rather had a real rebounder at the four … like Oubre. Heck, playing small might have been a nice adjustment. Won’t happen.

    10. Breaking the Press: I mentioned these two points yesterday, but there were two big areas breaking the press – First, getting the ball in quickly after a made basket. We don’t let the closest guy throw it in immediately. We have a designated guy. I saw Traylor run away from the ball after made baskets. Two times though Cliff threw it in quickly. Don’t know if that was planned, but that was it. It’s a crucial “fail” in my book breaking a press. Second, returning the ball to the inbounder quickly. I don’t have my notes with me, but we started doing that about possession #15 or so (I’m guessing there), and it worked quite effectively. I have no idea why we weren’t doing that from the get go.

    11. Small Or Four Out-One In: Two options last night were playing small, say Oubre at the four, Ellis at the five; or playing four out, one in offensively. We saw neither. We don’t play small offensively because Self is paranoid about our defense. He is too worried we won’t be “able to guard anybody” (quote from preseason discussion). I don’t know on whether going small would have been the answer. But last night, we don’t even break out the four out, one in look? Not even to see how it will work? I don’t understand that.

    12. WVU Won Because of Their Scheme: This was not a game we should have lost. WVU was a vastly inferior team. A team that won because their coach has adjusted their scheme to fit their team. WVU won because of their scheme, right? Think of it this way – do you think we lose if WVU doesn’t play the press/pressure game? Right. The power of scheme. The power of coaching.

  • @HighEliteMajor I’m not a great basketball mind by any stretch of the imagination, but I had an End Game Screw Up #3 scenario: Since WVU is one of the worst free throw shooting teams in the country, why not foul immediately? Worse case scenario - they make both, take a one point lead and we still have 7+ seconds on the clock. Of course, since we couldn’t find a good shot in 35 seconds, we probably couldn’t get one in 7. NEVER MIND.

  • It’s always tough to lose by a point. It represents losing by the smallest of margins, but in the standings it changes a “W” to a “L” and that is huge. It is one tiny point that makes a huge impact.

    This game started off badly. We fell behind and we looked totally unprepared. But we did get used to their game and we fought back to the perfect position of only being down 3 at half. In the final moments of the first half I begged my flatscreen TV to keep us behind at half because I knew that would give Self room to negotiate a motivational speech at halftime.

    Our guys did come out with spark to start the second half. What did we do, 10 unanswered points? That was the point in the game where WE decided what kind of ending it was going to be… a Kansas comeback blowout or a one possession finish. We didn’t keep the “pedal to the metal.” When we let off and allowed WVU back in the game, I looked at my wife and said, “this is going to finish a one possession game.”

    I’ve been experiencing Jayhawk basketball for over 50 years now. That has to be the worst example of defensive rebounding I have ever experienced. This was a game that actually fit in the Duggy Goetlieb description of basketball being a “game of possessions.” Yes it was. If this game had turned into a faster game, I wonder if we would own the NCAA record for offensive rebound give-ups? Pathetic. Our guys didn’t scrap for the ball, at all. And the part I will never understand, is how they positioned themselves directly under the basket. Please review your DVRs. That is the only definite no-no place to position yourself for a rebound. What were they thinking? Surprisingly, this was not an over-physical game. WVU did not play their normal game of mugball. They actually played a game with more finesse then they usually play.

    It is always a safe call to make adjustments in hindsight. But it became obvious by watching this game, that we should have gone to a smaller lineup. Perry in the middle, and 4 guards. It gave us a better chance to rebound because we had quicker guys on the floor. It gave us faster legs to attack the rim on offense. None of this game was played above the rim. None. It was completely a game decided by x-axis tactics. I feel confident we would have started fouling out their interior players much sooner. Their weakness was post defense. And we were able to spread their defense effectively.

    This will make my point more obvious about playing 4 guards. Our attack man on offense was Jamari. Outside of a few TOs, he actually had some success attacking the paint and feeding. Now imagine that was any one of our guards? That bread and butter was there all 40 minutes, and had we attacked it early on, we not only would have maintained a healthy lead and forced their big in early foul trouble, we would have forced Huggy into changing his game plan.

    I’m not going to be someone who piles on Wayne in this game. I think most of us in here realized he wasn’t the right guy for this game, and it wasn’t his choice if he played or not. He’s a guy who thinks too much and these are the guys that usually have problems in a sped up game. That one foul where he just stopped playing the ball and did the strange thing with his arms trying to shield the defender was just plain strange. It gave us a glimpse of how much of his mind has to be dealt with every breathing second he is on the floor. But taking everything into consideration, I think he did much better than I thought he would do. We definitely can’t pin this loss on him, or any one Jayhawk. This was definitely a team loss.

    If I could go back in time and be able to throw in a few words to the team before the game I would say:

    1. When you break the press, if there isn’t a complete “gimme” basket, pull the ball out and run our normal offense. Don’t get caught up in the speed and speed up our offense.

    2. Do not setup right under the basket and think you are going to rebound the ball. Take turf up in the lane and fight for rebounds… especially defensive rebounds.

    3. Send a runner for a break away and make them pay for crashing the boards. (we did that once with Kelly, and the TV guys seemed to like it, over and over).

    4. Extend our runs. When we get a run going continue to add more energy to the run to extend it. Don’t get a run going then go on cruise control.

    5. Make Staten beat you from outside. Make him shoot over you instead of blow by you.

    This was a game similar to OSU. We had both of these teams where we wanted them, and we didn’t finish the job. Killer instinct was lacking.

  • This game was about rebounding, plain and simple.

    We got bullied on the boards and that just can’t happen.

    This was the nightmare scenario that I saw coming into this game. It’s why I was so fearful of this game as soon as the schedule came out. Since WVU joined the Big 12, we have not played well in Morgantown. We are 1-2 out there and we have gone in ranked in the top 10 every time. It’s just a bad trip for us.

    That said, this game exposed some flaws for us.

    One, we do not have a closer. Down the stretch, Frank wants the ball, but isn’t quite dynamic enough as a scorer to just let him freelance when things break down. Kelly and Wayne are both better as shooters than break you down off the dribble scorers. We have broken down Perry to the point I actually think his offensive game may be underrated on this site. But the point is, we need someone that can just go get a bucket when we really need a bucket.

    The rebounding was atrocious. Our two best rebounders are Cliff and Jamari, but in a game like last night, we can’t play them together, even when we are getting destroyed on the glass. That’s a killer. Perry did a great job on the windows last night, but this is the type of game where you need someone like Cliff that’s going to grab 15 boards and just dominate the backboard. We didn’t get that.

    The final play, we really have to see that finished with a dunk. Coming straight down the middle at full speed, that layup is missed more often than not. That has to be a dunk.

  • @justanotherfan

    I respectfully disagree with your post that we don’t have a closer.

    I think Frank is a solid closer. He did close. We were down by one under a minute and he drove the paint and got the basket. Compare him to our PGs for the last two years… Naa and EJ. If we would have held them that last possession, we would all be praising Frank for closing out that game. Even Wigs wasn’t a closer. His victory basket there last year was the only time in his short career he closed out a game. First time. Frank has won several games for us over the past 1 1/2 years.

    What we lacked was the ability to stop them from scoring with a few seconds left.

    I have to pin that one on Self. He should have had Landen positioned at the rim that entire possession. The one thing you don’t want to give up at that time is a layup, and Staten is the master of drive in our league. That was a Self blunder, plain and simple. WVU isn’t a good outside shooting team, make them hit the long ball with one of their poorer shooters. We allowed WVU to play to their strength in the final seconds. Self was out-coached. After Staten blew by his man, there was no one to help out. No one.

  • One point loss on the road. WVU went all I with the press, tho the point that their key players cramped in the second half. Alexander played limited minutes, Selden only contributed 4 points, we allowed a ton of offensive rebounds, had difficulties breaking the press, failed to shoot enough 3 pointers, got out hustled, and after all of that, if Perry Ellis gathers his feet dribbles the ball once and dunks it we are not having this discussion. Give me my Jayhawks any day of the week. We are in 1st place, and we will continue to strive for “Self” Improvement. (Pun Intended).

  • @nuleafjhawk You’re good man. You are a great contributor on this site and the “other” one in your former life. Rock Chalk!.. However, giving up 20+ O Rebs is unacceptable.

  • @ZIG Thank you. I do need to wait until I calm down some (especially after a game like that) before I comment. I’m not above being stupid…

  • @drgnslayr

    I agree with you that the defensive breakdown was the real reason for the loss. I also think Self should have gone with Cliff for that last defensive possession. Landen isn’s a shot blocker. Expecting him to protect the rim is a bit unfair. Park Cliff in the lane and let him do his thing.

  • @justanotherfan Given that in many respects this game was decided by rebounding (i.e., WVU would have struggled to get 50 points without 22 ORs and numerous 2nd and 3rd chances), I was struck by your comment that our two best rebounders are Cliff and Jamari. Indeed, Cliff is our best rebounder on a per minutes basis - actually tied by Landon. However, Jamari is actually a very poor rebounder - only 5th on the team on a per minutes basis, not much ahead of Greene. Given that he also is second on a TO per minute basis (to Landon), statistically at least it seems to be hard to justify that his “energy” makes up for his negative play. He doesn’t defend well, doesn’t block out, and turns the ball over far too frequently.

    But, perhaps surprisingly, the worst rebounder on the team is Wayne. Actually, he edges out Devonte by hair of our top 10 rotation guys. That’s right, the 6’5" 220llb chiseled guard rebounds at a lower rate than Frank, about half the rate of Greene, and about a 3rd the rate of Kelly and Perry. And, he also has the highest turnover rate among our top 8 rotation guys, with the exception of Jamari. He defends well on the perimeter, but let’s quicker guys get by him, doesn’t block out or rebound, has a poor handle, and can’t finish at the rim (he looks timid going into the paint).

    I don’t know if it’s desire, “manhood”, basketball IQ, or coaching 'em up, but we need these guys to step in up in the paint the rest of the year.

  • No one player is responsible for a team loss. I could place blame on each one. I’ve just never been a “woulda, coulda, shoulda” fan. I realize people need to vent and some do it better than others in substance and in length.

    Not an excuse, but there was a void the whole team felt without Snacks and his energy.

    Have read all the critiques good and bad. I am who will look forward to what is coming up and be ready to support the team.


  • @DCHawker You are exactly right on Traylor. Actually, I was not able to find a post player under Self, that played any significant minutes, that was worse than Traylor rebounding the ball (other than Justin Wesley, as I mentioned above). Traylor is just a horrible rebounder. Numbers don’t lie there. As I noted above, @Jesse-Newell said, "“So hard for KU to get a defensive rebound with Traylor in. 11.4 D-board % has to be close to worst ever for a Self big at KU.” This is a point I’ve been curious about. Traylor is an energy guy, I guess, making a few highlight plays here and there. But my opinion is that he is really a lazy player much of the time. Rebounding is a good portion “effort” – with his leaping ability and athleticism, and proximity to the post, it’s not unreasonable to question his effort.

    On the other hand, he is playing pretty much to his ranking and expectation. Maybe even a little higher.

    But your point on Selden is very good. He is the worst perimeter rebounder. At 6’5" and with his build, that’s surprising.

    @drgnslayr You said, “But it became obvious by watching this game, that we should have gone to a smaller lineup. Perry in the middle, and 4 guards. It gave us a better chance to rebound because we had quicker guys on the floor. It gave us faster legs to attack the rim on offense. None of this game was played above the rim. None. It was completely a game decided by x-axis tactics. I feel confident we would have started fouling out their interior players much sooner. Their weakness was post defense. And we were able to spread their defense effectively.”

    Your entire post was excellent. I’m always in for playing small to test the waters in games where we don’t overwhelm. Like four out, one in … why not throw out a line and see what happens? But this game did cry out for playing small, and seeing how WVU reacted. Particularly when you rely on low talent guys (Traylor/Lucas).

    Again, you have much more talented players on the court. Better weapons.

    @RockChalkinTexas – So you think missing coach cannabis affected this team? I guess I don’t know any back story on his “energy.”

  • @HighEliteMajor I do. A link in the chain was missing. Throughout the season I’ve seen him continually up and helping from the sidelines as well as during huddles taking a player aside and offering constructive criticism or offering his views.

    Calling him names when you know nothing about his onetime digression is not productive and frankly a low blow. Sure we all made fun of what the charge was but I don’t think anyone stooped to calling him names.

    I did say it was “JMO” and if you don’t like my opinion then that’s your prerogative.

  • I totally forgot Snacks was out. Some coaching on the side-an extra rebound here and there-yet another factor in a one point loss.

  • @RockChalkinTexas Easy … just kidding around. I was just interested if you knew something we hadn’t heard. I have no issue with your JMO.

    Other possible nicknames for those that aren’t too sensitive – I considered Jerrancejuana and Hemp Howard. To be blunt, though, I kind of like Coach Cannabis the best.

    Any guess who’s driving the van? link text

  • @HighEliteMajor

    “But this game did cry out for playing small, and seeing how WVU reacted. Particularly when you rely on low talent guys (Traylor/Lucas).”

    Yes it did.

    What it really cried out for was a NBA coaching mentality. If guys don’t get it done try a different rotation. Run something else.

    Actually… in the second half, I liked what we ran. We had WVU spread out and we often attacked. But seriously… why was Jamari used for that?

    WVU is all about foot speed. Their full court press, half court traps… it is a team built around speed. Why did we counter with size? They ran doughnuts around our guys, especially on the offensive glass.

    It was an unconventional game for us and required major adjustments… adjustments we didn’t make. We got beat on the match ups. It required a NBA thinking approach… away from the stiffness.

    We could have used a lubricated Svi in this game… but he has already rusted out for this year. It would take major minutes to get him back in the flow. A piece of “depth” set out in the yard to rust.

    Guys on this team rust up if they don’t get lots of minutes because they don’t have adequate personal development coaching. Clear as day. It is just one more reason I would restructure the coaching on this team.

  • Wow, so many small things that added up to a loss. Before seeing WV play this year and only having heard and read about them, I would’ve expected a loss in their place. But after watching them for half a game it seemed there was no way we should lose to this team. Especially since their crowd was pretty much taken out of the game by the weather. And they only had one player who can hurt you offensively. We have so many more talented players to draw on.

    And their press, which was effective early, pretty much became a non-factor as we figured it out and seemed to handle it pretty easily. I will give Bill credit for that. By the second half it looked like we were methodically breaking them down and victory was inevitable. So methodical that Brent’s play-by-play started to sound like a hip hop song. So methodical that West Virginia pretty much gave up on it’s press. Yes, I will give Bill credit for that.

    But the press did work well enough early to give the Mountaineers the cushion they needed to stay in a game they shouldn’t have been in. And by the way, why is Wayne Selden still in the game after that ridiculous one-handed catch attempt against that press. Should’ve been on the bench for the rest of the half. Can you imagine if EJ would’ve pulled that when he was a sophomore?

    And even though it seemed like West Virginia was trying to hold back the inevitable tide coming in and was going to get blown out at any minute, they hung in. Even though we were getting the looks we wanted inside, we weren’t getting them outside. And we weren’t converting them inside at a high enough rate. Perry needs to shoot a better percentage inside. Just a little bit better, but better.

    It was like Huggins scouted us and saw that we looked our best when we get open looks from beyond the arc and we don’t shoot a good percentage inside. So he determined to take the 3pointer away from us and live with our inside game. I guess that’s coaching, huh? It’s almost like Huggs understands our team better than our own coach does. I think it just boiled down to coaching. At the risk of raising the ire of the Self Lovers out there, I’ll say it once more. Out-coached again.

    And I’m sure there’s less pressure because the stakes aren’t as high as coach of West Virginia, but watching Bill yell at his team during a timeout while Huggs calmly diagrams a play was just, well…

    Which reminded me of something Bill said during his feature last weekend–that he’s not motivated by winning, he’s motivated by not losing. That kinda backs up my observation that he coaches and emphasizes fear of failure rather than embracing the opportunity for success. He’s too risk-averse. I don’t know where anybody ever got the idea he’s a ‘riverboat gambler.’ I don’t see that at all. But I guess we all see different things.

  • @KUinLA

    “I don’t know where anybody ever got the idea he’s a ‘riverboat gambler.’”

    The “riverboat gambler” wasn’t a description for Self as a risk taker. It was to describe how he leaks out information and bluffs people into thinking his strategy and mindset is in one direction, while he goes in a different direction. I don’t think anyone in here sees him as a big risk taker.

    Many of us crush down hard on Bill. This is a forum to vent and express… there aren’t too many rules around that. But I don’t think many of us mind our current record this year. I know the media convinced many fans that Kansas wasn’t going to get #11 (which we still have to do)… but the media had a pretty good argument on their side. Everyone has discounted his ability to produce another winner… including many of us.

    I’m not going so far as to say Self got out-coached in this game. That would imply Huggy did a better job. I’m not going that far. But I believe he coached himself out of a victory. I never had us winning this game. Everything was stacked against us leaving Morgantown with a victory.

    I don’t believe Self went to Morgantown planning to lose this game. But I don’t think he minded leaving with a “L”… I really don’t We still lead our conference and another loss is more opportunity to punch his guys in the guts and try to get them to grow up. No coach can take a bunch of boys and turn them into champs. At this level, it becomes a man’s game when going for crowns. There are several hundred D1 teams full of boys. Most watching March Madness at their parents’ houses.

    How does a coach build urgency in his players? Especially when they are just children. I can’t really answer that. But that is the real task Self has. This is far more than giving Cliff more minutes or building offense around the 3.

    Like I said… I don’t believe Self went to Morgantown planning to lose this game. But I don’t think he wanted to make it easy for these guys to leave town with the win. He knows the value of struggle… and how it builds character. Can he turn these boys into men within a month? Doubtful… Can they survive March solely on their talents? Doubtful… Is Kansas going to be the winner in my March Madness bracketology? Doubtful… Sure, I want them to win. But I don’t see the urgency necessary to get there.

    IMHO, we need to address the structure of Kansas coaching. Need some assistant coaches that can teach rebounding block outs… shot fakes… hedge defense… dribbling skills… the basics. These kids have all worked on their jump shots and slam dunks. Great… those are important, but it is the basics that will give them a chance in March. Maybe a team like Kentucky can gloss over the fundamentals, because they are just too friggin’ loaded. Maybe. We’ll see if they are ready to play ball after their breezy SEC schedule. We’ll see if they know the value of struggle… or if it even matters. If they don’t come ready in March and they actually finally play a team of experienced players who are really tough and coached in the fundamentals… they’ll go down like a ton of bricks.

    Hey… I just caught the classic Bogart film… “The Harder They Fall” for the millionth time. Made me think of Kentucky. Big… and propped up with a bunch of SEC games that might as well be rigged. I hope they win out until a tough challenge in March. The Blue Nation fan base will jump out of buildings if they blow it!

  • @drgnslayr whoa, you think Self didn’t mind leaving w/a loss? Steam was coming out his ears during post-game!

  • @Crimsonorblue22

    Sure… he’s the Riverboat Gambler. He’s parsing his words and actions carefully. He’s trying to get the maximum gain out of that loss! That confirmed my suspicion that he didn’t mind the loss.

  • @drgnslayr I think you are crazy!!! Baby fri?

  • Anybody see the violations by WVU in no more than 14 sports - illegal texting was mentioned?

    CHARLESTON, W.Va. – The NCAA placed West Virginia’s athletic department on two years’ probation Wednesday for recruiting violations involving illegal text messages and phone calls in 14 sports.

    The NCAA said a Division I infractions committee determined that coaches in 14 sports sent impermissible texts and made phone calls to prospects and parents between June 2010 and February 2013. Most of the infractions occurred in women’s gymnastics, football, women’s basketball and women’s soccer.

    Most of the women’s gymnastics violations were committed by one assistant coach, who was placed under a one-year show-cause penalty, cannot recruit during a 30-day signing period and must attend an NCAA regional rules seminar.

    The committee determined that infractions in other sports were limited.

    The NCAA said several coaches involved in the violations believed there was a misunderstanding in some of the recruiting communication rules.

    “Additionally, the school did not fully understand how to use compliance software it purchased to monitor phone and text activity,” the NCAA said. “It wasn’t until the software company updated the software that the school learned of the violations.”

    ##The NCAA said the violations occurred while the school was on two years’ probation from a previous infractions case involving out-of-season coaching and the use of non-coaching staff to work with players.

    West Virginia athletic director Shane Lyons was named last month to succeed Oliver Luck, who left for a position with the NCAA. Lyons said he was aware of the issue when he interviewed for the job.

    “While I am disappointed with today’s NCAA report, I do take note that our department found the infractions, self-reported them and worked with the NCAA in full cooperation to address and correct the issues,” Lyons said. "I am confident that the department has taken the necessary steps to correct its compliance and recruiting software program, re-educate the staff on updated NCAA changes on the rules surrounding text messages and phone calls and fulfilled our obligations to the NCAA concerning the situation long before I started as athletic director back on Feb. 2.

    “Moving forward, I expect our department to continue its strong dedication to NCAA compliance.”

    In addition to the probation, West Virginia self-imposed penalties adopted by the panel that include a reduction of telephone contacts in the 14 sports for portions of the 2013-14 and 2014-15 academic years, reduced off-campus recruiting in football, women’s soccer, women’s basketball and men’s basketball, and official visit restrictions in women’s soccer.

    The football team also was stripped of one scholarship for the 2013-14 academic year.

    Associate athletic director Keli Cunningham said there was no failure to monitor, lack of institutional control or failure to promote an atmosphere of compliance.

    “There was no systemic effort by any of our coaches to violate the rules or gain a significant recruiting advantage, and that is reflected by the NCAA’s decision,” Cunningham said. “We take this very seriously and we accept the NCAA’s findings.”

    The probation period runs through Feb. 17, 2017.

  • @drgnslayr Wow, you really are in the tank, aren’t you, lol.

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