Do we go after more recruits?
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Sorry for the multiple topics started recently, I promise to slow down. There has just been so much good stuff going on lately.
With the recent add of Bragg, I saw some posters write about not wanting another recruit for the development of Greene and Svi. And the more I ponder that thought, the more I agree. With the exception of Zimmerman, I would rather not sign anymore.
As of right now, we have will have experienced wings next year (I am assuming Oubre enters the draft). Next year, we will have: 1.) Mason/Graham, 2.)Selden/Graham, and 3.)Greene/Svi. And we know Svi can bump up to the 2 guard position rather easily.
The positive side in having another talented wing is an injury (which wouldn’t be devastating unless it’s Mason). And the apocalypse I believe @HighEliteMajor pointed out with an unexpected draft entry and Svi plays ball oversees. The college game is so unpredictable that Self would almost have to cover his tracks with a recruit. But if everything stands, I would rather have experienced players who can run the Self offense over another talented wing that leaves after one year and disrupts ego’s, roles, and development. Another talented wing assures someone transferring.
What do you guys think would be the best situation to the Hawks? Self has talked about the simple strategy of just trying to get the more talented players, but I am not sold because of the complexity of team dynamics.
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@JhawkAlum : I think after what happened in 2011 with both of the twins and Selby declaring Self is now hedging his bets when he can and recruiting to the max. At the start of that season everyone thought that the over hyped Selby would be gone but hoped the lure of playing one more year together for the twins would keep Mook and Kief from declaring. Then Kief and Marcus both had good seasons, were able to showcase their talents to the league and both became lotto picks. We then struck out on Otto Porter and DeAndre Daniels so that left HCBS picking up K.Yo, Breaden and Jamari really late in the process.
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The day of the developmental 3 Star Recruit is over. That’s what I think.
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@KansasComet sad day.
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Who always asked this one last year?? HEM was it?? Would you rather have K. Shepard for 2-3 years or Joel for 1??
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I say recruit the talent and let the minutes sort themselves out. As someone pointed out on another thread, if we stop pursuing a guy, there’s a chance that could come back to haunt us if that guy ends up at Texas, Oklahoma, Iowa State or even another national school like UK, UNC, Duke, etc.
All of this doesn’t happen in a vacuum. Basically every top notch player will be playing somewhere in college next year. Only two top players in the OAD era have ever played overseas, and only three or four others have had eligibility issues that kept them from playing at all. Everyone else suited up somewhere, so if we back off a guy, chances are we will see him somewhere else for the tournament, and potentially somewhere else in our own conference.
I think players can still develop. The question is whether or not they will develop. Every class has 5-7 three star recruits that turn into all conference type players at the major conference level. Thing is, there are hundreds of three star recruits going to all sorts of different schools. Steph Curry was a 3 star recruit. I think Doug McDermott was as well. But there were lots of guys that graded out just as well as Curry and McDermott coming out of HS that played like 3 star recruits once they made it to college.
Some guys will develop. Some will even become college stars/NBA stars. Most won’t be anything more than a college role player. You’re more likely to get a Jamari Traylor from a 3 star recruit than you are to get a Doug McDermott.
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@JhawkAlum I think basketball is more than a year by year thing and that if we want to have experienced players two seasons from now it would be wise if Self continues to bring in as many good players as possible. If they are good enough to push our starters to the bench then so be it. Maybe those guys stay another year after that and are awesome seniors. If they aren’t then maybe those recruits stay another year and are experienced sophs. You can never have too much talent. We are short on it right now to compete at the highest level.
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We sign as many as we can get. This class of kids is very good with a few potential great players in it. I say we sign a wing (Brown) and another big (Diallo or Zimmerman). Dorsey would be back-court insurance for any departures. A great combo guard who will be around a few years.
Jaylen Brown is a bit like Andrew Wiggins, off the charts athleticism, can shoot and can be a very good defender. If he wants to come to KU, move over Greene and Svi. I’m sorry you can’t let a talent like him go. We haven’t seen Greene put 2 good games in a row together at any point in his career. How can you feel confident that he will ever be consistent. I know Self and most are extremely high on Svi but the fact of the matter is even next year he’s still a College Freshman by age. Will we see a big jump is his game next year, or is his ceiling still 3-4 years from now? If we are in the “now” stage, you try and sign Brown. He’s got a college ready body, and game to match similar to a Stanley Johnson at Zona.
Diallo is offensively a few years away from consistent production. He’s got an unmatched motor for a big man, putback specialist, best rim protector in the class. He’s the kind of guy who will really be good Sophomore/Junior year. A perfect recruit for Self to develop.
Zimmerman has a skillset that is 1 and done for his size. Not your prototypical 5 man in that he is a great passer, can handle the ball some and shoot out to the 3 point line.
Any of these guys can be potential upgrades at their position to what we currently have and they aren’t OAD’s except Brown.
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In business we always say that having more work than you can handle is good problem to have…considering the alternative. The metaphor can be extended to basketball and you could say that having more players than available playing time is a much better problem to have than the alternative of having lots of available playing time and not enough quality players.
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I hope we sign 4 more this year - we’ll have the spots.
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understandable to ask the question about Greene how do we know if he will ever put 2 good games together? answer- - - - - we don’t. but you can turn that around how do we know Jaylen would? answer- - - - - we don’t. have seen to many times kids have gotten hype has all the tools and sometimes it just doesn’t come together. we CAN’T say for sure 100% that Jaylen is THE MAN. what a lot of these McDonalds all stars super stud high school ballers fail to realize is their the stud in HIGH SCHOOL making moves and dunks and dribbling feats being flashy where they can get away with a lot of that because they just plain out talent the others around them. then they get to College and try those SAME MOVES, try doing a lot of other things the same as in high school, go up for their shot and come back with spalding written all over their forehead. they seem to forget they are going against other players that for the most part are just as talented as they are. not trying to knock Jaylen, if he comes AWSOME but just trying to say we don’t know for sure about a kid that hasn’t stepped on to the college basketball floor yet, hasn’t played a second. BIG DIFFERENCE
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@Kip_McSmithers Agreed. Morris Twins leaving may have surprised Self but I remember having a pretty good year in 2012 after they left.
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I hope we recruit CAREFULLY!
More is not always better. If we oversign at one position and have weaknesses at another, we are bound to reduce our chances in March.
I really want Zim!
If we just land him, I’d say we had a great recruiting year… and that is regardless who we lose early.
That doesn’t mean I would have a problem landing a couple more players. I’d just be careful not to lose some of the talent we have.
It isn’t always a great thing to recruit potential at the loss of experience.
I’m kind of tired of being one of the youngest teams in America, AGAIN!
We need a balance. Some OAD-quality players mixed in with experienced quality players.
I am starting to see the possibility of losing Kelly. If that is the case, we have guys that can slip into the 3… but we won’t have that star swing 3. I wouldn’t mind landing one of those!
Part of it is about who will be available. I know Self wants Thon Maker. Does anyone know if he got his reclassification?
Where does that guy play? 7-foot PG? I can’t really see him pinned into the low post. The guy has freakish talent, but does landing him just mean another media circus and everyone having to placate their own ambitions for the star recruit?
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I’m afraid your hopes are going to be dashed for Zimmerman don’t think he is coming I’ve seen multiple reports and none of them have him landing here. I’ve seen Kentucky then I also feel that being local and have also heard he may just stay local and commit to UNLV. we DO have another chance and that’s with Thon Maker, still deciding if he is going to re- classify for this year, if he does we stand in pretty good shape with him multiple show we are in the lead for him that would be a huge get just have to wait and see
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But, but, but…
Isn’t that what “they” said about Wigs, Embiid and Bragg?
Landing a Nike lean appears the toughest, though KU adidas-ed Wigs.
Note: I am turning adidas into a verb that describes the raiding of players from other shoeco/agent conveyor belts. I will conjugate it for everyone.
I adidas-ed Bragg from UA. You adidas-ed Wigs from Nike. He/she/it adidas-ed Xavier from Nike. We adidased Zimmerman from Nike. They adidas-ed Newman from whomever.
After the adidas-UK signing of Bragg in UA treads, I am particularly psyched about raiding UA talent, even though Pitino might expect it to be a smaller pool of talent than Nike.
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@justanotherfan In our situation it’s not about whether they can develop or not. On average we have 2-4 Scholarships a year to give out. No way are any of those Scholarships going to 3 star recruits unless we absolutely strike out in recruiting.
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This article says yes, we need more recruits.
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Let’s look at this from shameless PR talking points.
When KU gets an OAD/TAD type, we say: Bill Self signed a player.
When KU does not sign a player, we say: adidas failed to attract the player to KU.
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@wissoxfan83
I predicted yesterday that KU will have 5-6 OAD/TADs on the roster next season.
Today I might even up it to 5-7.
Two seasons from now I expect KU to be at 8-10 OAD/TADs on roster at KU.
Gotta happen.
So gonna happen.
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@jaybate-1.0 you are an a-did-ass!!! Jk
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“I think girls who insult people are very attractive.”
–Howard Hawks, Director of “Gentlemen Prefer Blondes,” “Rio Lobo,” “El Dorado,” etc.
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@jaybate-1.0 couldn’t resist!
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Couldn’t either!
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I hope we get a slew of top talent. We can platoon 'em.
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@jaybate-1.0 Upvote for the Gentlemen Prefer Blondes reference.
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@wissoxfan83
The Basketball Bible on recruiting
“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and ye shall find. Always trust in thy PetroShoeCo/Agency complex.”–The Book of Shoes, 7:7
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Gosh I love that flick. STILL!
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Great insight fellas. I stand corrected. I just hate having players like Greene who have been patient, payed their dues, and worked hard but are left on the outside looking in.
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I think what we need to do is go after guys that fill a need, ie rim protector. To fill this need, I say we land Diallo.
Top talent + experience + length + trey shooting = National Title.
Kentucky has set the example on how to have the potential for an undefeated season by having a lot of height and shot blocking ability. Combine that with seasoned veterans and good three point shooting and very few teams will come close.
Now I’m not saying that Self turns Kansas into D League team.
What I’m saying is that The Squid is trying to put together a team like this year’s UK squad every year. Self has to find a way to compete against him or else we are always going to be very good, but never capable of beating Kentucky.
Hypothetical scenario -
Oubre leaves for the NBA. Selden, Alexander, and Svi stay. Green is a junior and hopefully less of a wild hair. Mason and Devonte remain the point guards. Jamari, Perry, and Bragg are the other power forwards. Self also gets Diallo plus Jaylen Brown or Thon Maker (given that he reclassifies).
This hypothetical team, which is actually somewhat realistic, would have the potential to beat the current UK squad.
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What the heck! Tri-toon’em!!!
What the heck! V-toon’em for victory!!!
What the heck! Let’s sign an endorsement deal with Manitou V-Toons!!!
http://www.manitoupontoonboats.com/performance/vtoon
There is no limit to this endorsement stuff!!!
We can out market UK!
By gosh, Forrest Claire Allen had the hues to promote the building of KU Memorial Stadium way back 1920.
And KU built 16k seat Allen Field House in 1955-56 for the 1957 season when most colleges were playing in 3-6k seat arenas.
If there is no putting brakes on what is happening to college basketball, then let’s mount some Saturn V’s to KU and get going!
P.S.: I haven’t ridden in one of these Manitou pontoons yet, but they seem like a very good innovation. And I’m not connected with them in any way. Just really, really like the idea of a fast, good handling pontoon boat for partying and skiing. Fiberglass deck boats have been taken about as far as they can go and scratched, chipped fiberglass v-hull keels and cracking gel coats top side could use a rest.
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@KansasComet Good point. Until the OAD rule is changed you may be correct.
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I totally agree with you, but when the rules change, and everyone starts embracing them, then its a new game.
Regarding Brannen, he is such a great shooter he really doesn’t have to worry about any of the guys that might join the team. I really don’t think anyone can shoot him off the floor. He is too tall and too good of a shot. If he just gets a leeeeeeetle more consistent on the defensive end, which he almost certainly will by next season, he may not get 35mpg, but he will get 20mpg and all the 3ptas he wants.
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@jaybate-1.0 and he needs to go to wts-on time!
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@Crimsonorblue22 Yeah, no more showing up a half hour late.
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@jaybate-1.0 I was thinking we could a KU Jayhawks private airport, with a landing strip with our logo on it. I was thinking we could get Adidas to stick up some LCD signs where we could flash the player’s picture as they roll into the tarmac. There, we could have a small crowd cheering as they exit the plane. Then we pick them up with a KU themed Escalade with spinning wheels, with a hologram of Drake activated when they open the door.
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@Crimsonorblue22 He’s going to be great…I am pumped…
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I think as many recruits as possible should be offered. Bill Self recruits people who have the potential to play pro ball; I don’t know what he and the staff tell the recruits, but I expect he is honest. Both Beal and Wall said in interviews tonight that their coaches guaranteed them nothing. I think if Coach Self thinks a player has pro potential, does it really matter if he is a OAD, a TAD, or horror of horrors, a 3AD? I mean, what, 5-7 of the NC team got NBA contracts. Sasha landed an NBA contract, but asked out of it to play in his home country. Wiggins and Embiid are perfect examples: Wiggins was expected to be a OAD, and he was. When Coach Roberts spotted Embiid and pointed him out to Coach Self, they thought he would be a project. At that point, he was ranked about #100, and would have seemed to be a 3- or 4-year player, but after he committed to KU, he shot quickly into the Top 10. At that point, I was thinking TAD, but he turned out to be a OAD. Wayne was projected as a OAD. If he develops, should it matter if he stays even 3 years, as long as he develops and gets to the NBA? Coach Self has said he expects Brannen Greene to play in the NBA. If it takes 3 years for him to develop, should that be discouraging to him?
With the juggling of multiple good players, many may wonder if they will have the durability for the NBA schedule, but many first and second year players have spot roles off the bench, giving them a chance to adjust to the rigors of a pro season.
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@KUSTEVE Drew actually used to pick up the recruits in an escalade with spinning wheels.
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@wrwlumpy When Roy was still here one of his providers of transportation to staff (complimentary of course) was Crown Chevrolet on South Iowa. I bought 2 trucks & 1 car there in about 6 months, one of which was a loaded black Tahoe that had been demo’ed to NFL HOFer Willie Lanier. Most of the autos comp’ed out to big shots by a dealer have every bell & whistle available; digital touch screens, Bose stereos, bun warmers, etc. List price on this one was around 48K & that not only was a long while back, but was one helluva truck to boot. I think Bill & staff are driving Lincolns now but haven’t paid much attention to that in recent years. But rest assured not many head coaches in D1 are scrunching their butt into a Corrolla-maybe their kids are, but dealerships write off much of that expense for advertising & cut very few corners. I wouldn’t be surprised if some get don’t cars equipped with hyd or pneumatic lift kits, powered woofers & tweeters, or more. Of course certainly none would have a the optional table dancer? LOL…I wonder if maybe Drew was over the top with ermine mud flaps & curb feelers on that Caddy? Oh I forgot, feelers have now been replaced by digital cameras…
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@globaljaybird I can’t wait till we get to the OGAD rule.
One GAME and Done
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I don’t want any more perimeter players, not even Brown, even if we lose Oubre.
Sophomore Svi/Junior Greene will contribute more and have better TEAM chemistry than OAD Freshmen Brown.
We could really use another post player (Diello or Zimmerman) but I’m not losing sleep if we don’t get anyone either. Even if Cliff leaves, you have the same front court with another year of experience and Bragg replaces Cliff. If Cliff does come back, even better.
PS If freshman Wiggins couldn’t carry us to the promised land; freshman Brown won’t either.
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I agree with you we have no idea what either might do next year. Self has had pretty good success with bringing in OAD wings so you would have to think Brown has a shot to dominate from day 1. The only reason he isn’t the #1 recruit is because Simmons is a beast and dominated HS kids. Brown isn’t a finished product but he’s in the same mold as other elite wings. Other than shooting to me, he’s an upgrade over Greene.
Ranking the players still available by need: 1)Diallo 2)Zimmerman 3)Brown 4) Upperclassmen Transfer 5)Dorsey 6) Maker/Rabb 7)Ingram
Diallo to me is the biggest need, developmental big with shotblocking/rebounding skills. I see him as a 3 year player with his offense needing a lot of work.
Zimmerman is combo of everything and likely OAD.
Brown is a OAD wing with Wiggins like Athleticism.
I have Transfer at 4, nobody seems to be talking about taking a 1 year graduate transfer like Tarik Black or someone who has to sit a year and develop and play in 2016. Especially the bigs as we will have 3 Senior’s.
Dorsey would be a great pickup to get a top 30 guard that can learn from Mason/Graham and Selden next year. Would be a great backup or potential starter down the road to replace Selden.
I have Maker/Rabb at 6 because 1 we don’t know yet if Maker will reclassify. We are one of the 3-4 schools recruiting him the hardest but with UK right there what confidence can you have we could get him. Rabb has said he will visit for a game but everything I’ve seen with him is he will stay on west coast. Maybe I’m wrong, Rabb & Zimmerman have played together for years if we landed 1 we could get both?
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@FarSideHawk - I agree completely on the perimeter players. If Oubre leaves, and everyone else stays, I prefer that over adding any perimeter player on the board.
Self of course is in a tough spot. He doesn’t know who will be back.
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@drgnslayr said:
I hope we recruit CAREFULLY!
More is not always better. If we oversign at one position and have weaknesses at another, we are bound to reduce our chances in March.
I really want Zim!
If we just land him, I’d say we had a great recruiting year… and that is regardless who we lose early.
That doesn’t mean I would have a problem landing a couple more players. I’d just be careful not to lose some of the talent we have.
It isn’t always a great thing to recruit potential at the loss of experience.
I’m kind of tired of being one of the youngest teams in America, AGAIN!
We need a balance. Some OAD-quality players mixed in with experienced quality players.
I am starting to see the possibility of losing Kelly. If that is the case, we have guys that can slip into the 3… but we won’t have that star swing 3. I wouldn’t mind landing one of those!
Part of it is about who will be available. I know Self wants Thon Maker. Does anyone know if he got his reclassification?
Where does that guy play? 7-foot PG? I can’t really see him pinned into the low post. The guy has freakish talent, but does landing him just mean another media circus and everyone having to placate their own ambitions for the star recruit?
Texas has a 7 foot star that isn’t pinned to the post and their offense is a mish mosh mess right now with everyone out of sync. Nice to have as a “hey, look at that guy” but not sure it really makes for good team basketball overall. KU does well to have a nice balance at all points in the game; a good post big, a big that can hit mid- to deep, solid wings that can balance between the deep ball and slashing to the rim to draw fouls, a lethal SG and a PG that can drive the bus.
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If you are taking about Myles Turner, he always said he wanted to play a stretch 4 or 5 and be a face up type of player, much like a Dirk Nowitzki and not a back to the basket players like most 7 footers. I thought he felt KU did not offer that opportunity.
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@JayHawkFanToo So, if Turner would have come to Kansas, where would we be? Maybe not talking about outside-in.
I think you’re correct. He had the stretch 4/5 on his mind. Dirk is a good example.
If he’d come to Kansas, he would have gotten major back to the basket work. I’m not really sure how that would have harmed his “stretch” game. Getting major back to the basket work would have only expanded his game and made him a better, more well rounded player. And he would have had many opportunities to “stretch.”
And maybe we aren’t changing our approach. Maybe all of this works out for the best. But I think Turner could have fit here very nicely, even if he apparently didn’t.
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I believe there has to be some continuity between seasons which comes from the 3-4 year players. I would like to see a footer recruited, one with reasonable athleticism but not a OAD or TAD. Lets say a Jeff Withey type, one that has to develop but when they do become quite serviceable as a JR and potential starter as a SR. While developing they provide a valuable service on the practice squad as an added bonus.
Not saying I am against the OAD/TAD players just that there is a benefit to 3-4 year players that is a bit less tangible.
AND Hello all, glad to find where the people talking KUBALL instead of having petty fights over random tirades disappeared too!
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No question that improving his back to the basket skills would have made him a much, much better rounded player, but if I understand correctly, he does not like playing back to the basket and prefers the face up game and Texas offered that to him and KU did not. As you know, Coach Self does not “guarantee” playing time and much less style of play; players have to earn playing time and play the system Coach Self has set for the season, usually the High-Low.
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“Texas has a 7 foot star that isn’t pinned to the post and their offense is a mish mosh mess right now with everyone out of sync.”
I mentioned long ago that Myles may not have helped us. Sort of depends on his mindset. His real desire is to be a big 3 at the next level. His goal is to be a bigger version of Kevin Durant, his long-time idle.
He’s a long ways from having the skill set of Kevin Durant. But I’ve been amazed at how much body size he has put on in a short time. He’s starting to look more like a post player all the time, whether he wants to or not.
I don’t think people in here realize how important it is for Perry to hit some 3s. Every time Perry hits a 3 he makes a statement for the Kansas recruitment of big men… especially those who think they have guard-like skills. Come to Kansas and we’ll give you the outside if you can handle it!
I continue to wonder what our team would be like with Myles as a Jayhawk. Just because Texas’ offense is a big mess doesn’t mean it would be that way at Kansas had he chosen to come here.
I really like Rick Barnes as a person. He’s probably the nicest coach in the Big 12. But I feel the same as many feel, that he doesn’t maximize the talent he is blessed with.
Even though we always want to beat Texas… it is better for Kansas if the Big 12 starts producing winners besides Kansas (in March). So I support all the Big 12 teams except when they play us.
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@Kubie Welcome Kubie and nice post. Have a cold
with me.
