Bill Self: KU basketball will 'shoot more 3s than we've maybe ever shot' JNEW & cjonline
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I think we can shoot threes if we are smart about it. Do we have one guy that I would want hoisting 4-5 threes a game? Not really. Do we have 4-5 guys that I wouldn’t mind each putting up a couple threes a game? Absolutely. If Greene, Oubre and Svi all shoot 3 or 4 threes a game, give Selden, Mason and Graham shoot a couple, plus one for Perry, that’s 16-18 threes a game. I think that’s solid.
I don’t want any of these guys to just fire up threes all the time, but I want them to use them intelligently. Every one of our perimeter guys can put the ball on the floor and get to the rim. But they can also make you pay for sagging back. The key will be knowing when to take the threes (i.e. off kickouts and when the defense plays back) and when to drive (on bad close outs and when the defense is tight).
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I think Bill has to say this. No one, including Bill, has a crystal ball on what will happen. If we are working a hi/lo offense then we will always be focused on taking interior shots if they are there. Our interior may be smaller, but Perry and Cliff should be able to score on anyone in the post as long as they aren’t double and triple-teamed. So if we are a bigger threat from the perimeter, these guys will have more room to operate.
It’s very similar to football. If you can hit a few good pass plays, you help open up the run.
I think it would be a big help if we can come out in games and nail a few 3s early… especially if it is enough to create a run where our opposition has to call timeout and change-up a bit.
Another reason why we may get more 3 attempts… Svi. That guy is the first guy we’ve had on the perimeter that really really wants to shoot the ball. He could use some discipline, and Bill has mentioned that several times now. But I expect Svi to put up quite a few shots in ratio to his PT.
I really think Svi joining KU was the last straw for Conner. I just hope he goes somewhere that will help him for a potential coaching career later (if he can think that far ahead).
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While the only proven commodity at the 3, if you can call it that, is Greene, Selden and Mason have shown potential and with additional practice they can become proficient; Svi is also supposed to be a good 3-point shooter. Look out for Ellis, he will be trying to solidify his credentials as a SF, which is the more likely position for him at the next level; He shot well from the 3 last season but not nearly enough. He will be shooting a lot more 3s and he will be a pleasant surprise.
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We have just become UCONN.
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You need solid 3 point shooting and the threat of three point shooting to open the lane up for the bigs or for a dribble penetration wither for a lay up, kick out or dish off.
They just need to be good shot attempts and not some hail mary that is forced or to early in the shot clock.
Make it a part of the offense and watch how it opens up Self’s high low game even more.
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Here’s what Self said:
“We still have to play inside-out. I still think that’s how you win — you play inside-out,” Self told Topekans at Wednesday’s Roundball event at the Ramada Hotel and Convention Center. “But we’ll shoot more 3s than we’ve maybe ever shot. There’ll be more guys with green lights, so to speak, than we’ve ever had.”
Not to be cynical, but does that mean we’ll have two guys with green lights instead of one? And will that green light extend for the entire shot clock and not after 15 seconds?
I did notice Greene gun a three real early last game. I watched to see if Self stood up, convulsed, flopped around … saw none of that.
Self says we are still playing inside-out. That’s the real news. Which is really status quo, and which means that guys can’t just come down and gun, regardless of “green light”, right? The key will be how he reacts to threes that otherwise would cause implosion – when the bullets start flying a week from tomorrow.
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@HighEliteMajor Sometimes you show part of your hand to throw off your opponent. Can you imagine some of the early game coaches scrambling to change their D’s from packing the paint to getting guys out on the perimeter?
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@JRyman : I too thought maybe he put that out there to confuse ESU…
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Or Travis Ford, Rick Barnes and Scott Drew. Probably Bruce Weber too.
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“Look out for Ellis, he will be trying to solidify his credentials as a SF, which is the more likely position for him at the next level; He shot well from the 3 last season but not nearly enough. He will be shooting a lot more 3s and he will be a pleasant surprise.”
Right on the money!
I think Perry has to create a new role for himself. He needs to become Jekyll and Hyde. He needs to be the soft, precise “designer” on many parts of his game; his perimeter shot and even his post up moves often can be soft, as long as he has the mechanics down. He needs to be the monster on other parts of his game… like on defense and fighting for rebounds, and sometimes in the post to score.
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“Self says we are still playing inside-out. That’s the real news. Which is really status quo, and which means that guys can’t just come down and gun, regardless of “green light”, right? The key will be how he reacts to threes that otherwise would cause implosion – when the bullets start flying a week from tomorrow.”
I think we will run Self’s typical hi/lo offense. But I do think there will be a twist on this year. It isn’t so much that players will (or will not) be punished for shooting the long ball… This year it will be about Self not pushing these guards quite so hard to work all the way through the shot clock. He has done that before, and he even let that out in the media many times… that guys shot too quick in the shot clock.
I think he will take a little smarter approach this time and just enforce guys to shoot when it is the right shot, without regards to the shot clock. This is the way it should be. And this will be the way we improve our long ball shooting %. No more perimeter guys over-thinking on the shot. We’ll never get our moneys worth out of a guy like Svi if we put too many rules on him. He’s a guy that feels it, and he only needs to be reigned in with a few rules, not where he has rules and also has to look up at the shot clock before launching.
I know Self has taken some criticism on this in the past, and rightly so.
One more thing… look at our recent recruiting and the emphasis we’ve now put on recruiting better guard talent. Self knows he has to change his ways to recruit better guards. It is hard to recruit top-notch shooting guards to a school that make them examine the shot clock carefully before launching.
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I always think the beneficial way to handle when to shoot for the shooter and the team is to teach the guys where the team needs to shoot the ball to be successful. Drill the players to shoot at those spots in practice and set a percentage as the green light percentage. If you can shoot this percentage from one of the spots we need as a team in practice, then you have the green light to shoot from there in games, but not if not, and no where else. No team has ever been hurt by a player passing up a shot at a spot where his percentage was low. No team can do sharply better having one guy that shoots 38% from one spot have pass up a shot for someone else to shot 39% somewhere else. Boom! Stop thinking about whether you will be pulled for missing. You will only be pulled for taking a shot off your spots. And you will be pulled instantly and indefinitely for shooting off your spots. This was Wooden’s approach and it worked beautifully. It takes all the pressure off the shooter. No looking at the bench after misses. No celebrations after misses, because you were expected to take and make the shot.
RE: shooting more threes this season–they have no choice from a rebounding stand point. Self’s Elite Eight Tulsa team only had one decent trey shooter. But the team filled the air with 3pt attempts. Even Wooden’s short '64 32-0 team back in pre-3pt stripe days did the same. It had Goodrich that was a great long baller and then they were pretty modest elsewhere, but they took a lot of long shots. Why? The explanation is two fold.
First, if you’re players are short, your short bigs will get few open looks inside even if you run plays for them. If your short bigs are athletic, then what you want your guards shooting long balls for your short bigs to outrun the opposing team’s tall big to get. Long rebounds are crucial when your bigs are short. And because your bigs are short, opponents will be stretching and guarding farther out, which means your perimeter guys are either going to have to shoot from farther out, or conversely shoot off drives into gaps. But again, you don’t want your perimeter guys driving into iron because when they dish your bigs will be too small to make a high percentage with the opponents bigs rotating to cover them even after the dish. So: you may want to run a lot of action outside to get the outside shots to get the long rebounds. And whenever possible, you want to pull your short bigs out to shoot long shots and move your perimeter guys inside that have an edge in rebounding against their men.
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@wrwlumpy - We’re gonna win 3 National Championships in 10 years ?
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I think Devonte will surprise us with his 3 point shooting ability. I look for Oubre to hit some 3s as well. Frank will be improved from last year from the 3. Wayne? I assume he’s worked on his 3 point shot over the summer, and he looked good in the RED/BLUE scrimmage from the 3. Perry is working on his 3 point shot as well. Practically the whole team can shoot from the perimeter, and I haven’t even mentioned Greene or Swee yet. I don’t think we’ll need to look at the bench if we need a 3 with our projected lineup ( unless Coach decides to start Landen, Hunter, Cliff, and Jamari at the same time. Can you see Jamari at the 2?..he,he).
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@KUSTEVE maybe against kensucky?? Jk!
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@Crimsonorblue22 I want to beat them so freaking bad, I can taste it. I have several Mildcat friends, and they more full of crap than an xmas turkey. They are utterly convinced they will be undefeated this year. I mean, really? From 11 losses to perfection in a year? No way they don’t get beat. When they do lose, I’m coming down on them like a hammer…
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@Kip_McSmithers Thanks for the assist Kip.
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“@Crimsonorblue22 I want to beat them so freaking bad, I can taste it.”
Amen, brother… Amen!
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In what ways?
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UCONN - KU 3 points made
Napier 87 Seldon 42
Daniels 50 Mason 18
Boatright 44 Greene 10
Giffy 58 Ellis 8
This really won’t happen at KU. Not at Big Man U.
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@wrwlumpy Thanks for the stats. These say quite a bit. To me Greene is our biggest threat from deep and last year he hit 10 3’s. Obviously he did not get that many minutes and would have hit a ton more if he didn’t spend most of his time watching Wiggins play. It is scary, though. And I don’t really believe Bill about giving guys the green light. At least not enough guys to spread the wealth. How many guys has he ever given the green light to?
2014 - Last year Wiggs seemed to be able to do no wrong and shot the ball quite a bit and seemed to have a green light.
2013 - B Mac had a green light. Did EJ? Probably. Releford to me was great from 3 but did not look like he had the go ahead from Bill to fire it up whenever he wanted.
2012 - Again, EJ probably had it. He certainly shot the ball a lot from deep. Not a great shooting team and we were able to play through Trob.
2011 - Great shooting team. Morningstar and Reed shot quite a bit from 3. Reed probably had the green light. The Twins shot plenty of 3’s from the top of the key when wide open but that is one of the easiest shots in basketball so not sure if those count.
2010 - Sherron. Xavier did not in my opinion.
2009 - Sherron again.
2008 - Rush. Chalmers. That is probably it.
I guess my point is it is usually 1-2 guys who Bill allows to shoot the ball. I LOVE the idea of us shooting more 3’s. It is the way the college game is going and it takes teams to the Final 4 every year…often teams who are Cinderella or at least lower seeds who surprise people by getting hot from deep. But this is Bill Self. He lives to put guys into the game and after they miss one shot they are back on the bench. Not questioning the winningest coach in college ball in the last 11 years but just saying this is not his style and I will be shocked if we really do end up shooting a huge amount of 3’s this year.
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“Releford to me was great from 3 but did not look like he had the go ahead from Bill to fire it up whenever he wanted.”
Releford was a good shooter, not a great shooter. But what made his stats sparkle from 3 was his discipline to not force up shots he wasn’t comfortable shooting. There aren’t many players with his discipline. Add that into his exceptional effort on defense and you’ve got a guy who had a great player attitude. He must have been a joy to coach.
Man… I miss Rele!
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Don’t forget Teahan. At that time, Coach Self stated on his radio show that from beyond the 3 point line Teahan was the best shooter, from the 3 point line, Reed, and from inside the 3 point line, Morningstar.
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@drgnslayr I used to get mad at Rele all the time for passing up shots. Most under utilized offensive player we ever had, imo. The guy could score in a variety of ways, including deadly accuracy from the nosebleed section.
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@KUSTEVE You’re right … I made a lot of keystrokes begging him to be assertive. He could have averaged 5 more ppg easily.
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Kinda missing those reliable, bleed blue, 4-year guys…
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@Jyhwk_InTigrtwn yeah, love Releford and his D!! I’m also enjoying the freshmen too, whomever Self brings in is ok w/me! Nice mix this year!! Hoping for some some D w/these guys too!
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@Crimsonorblue22 yea, Bill keeps things hoppin with his new recruits each year - always fun to watch. And a real sense of pride that we just win so dang much year after year. I guess I’m just selfish and want to watch and follow our players for more than a year
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It’s pretty uncommon to get to watch a guy for 7 years, I’m looking at you BStar…
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@Kip_McSmithers I’m not a fan of his!
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Looking at that picture of Reed and Morningstar reminds me of 40% trey shooting, Self Defense, protection, assists.
It reminds me of 30 win seasons on the up side and always less than double digit losses on the down side.
It reminds me of getting better and high foundations.
It reminds me of help defense.
It reminds me of the same mix of early outs and deep runs before and after their 4 years.
It reminds of all the guys they played with that played the same way.
It reminds me of eye tests.
Post the picture any time.
It helps me forget last year.
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Looking at that picture of Travis Releford does even more for me.
Travis had a wild hair. Travis thought he could bounce the ball off backboards and get away with it. Travis thought he was destined to be god’s gift to slashing 2 guards and instead he got his butt set on the bench, where it belonged. Along the way he took a rouge smoking jacket and remade himself into a Self Baller and then hesitated to play on a bad ankle and saw the door of opportunity slam close again on him with Self losing respect for his manhood.
Travis could have quit like Conner, and quit like that weeny that went to Washington state and that guy that bolted for UNLV and got lost in the shuffle there too.
But Travis had character. He had manhood. He had balls the size of that rock rolling after Indiana Jones in Raiders of the Lost Ark. He had strength. He had explosiveness. And played through. And he developed a 42% trey. And he guarded better than any 3 in KU history I ever saw except for Brandon Rush, and there were games where he was better on defense than Brandon.
Travis Releford’s last two seasons, whenever he was healthy, he was the quintessence of Kansas basketball. He was the guy I would have wanted to play along side more than any other in the Self era. If KU were ever to create a logo with a player on it, the way the NBA did with Jerry West, Travis Releford’s silhouette is who I would want to be on that logo.
He was all “it.”
He was the point of it all in basketball.
Rock Chalk!
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“He could have averaged 5 more ppg easily.”
Yes… he easily could have added 5+ to his points. Maybe his shooting % would have dropped. I’m pretty sure Rele had the green light all the time, especially given the fact that he was so disciplined and maintained a high FG%. So if he had the green light, and he didn’t take the shot, he must not have felt comfortable. If he didn’t feel comfortable, chances are it would be reflected in his FG%.
I think we have to sort of look at Perry in that same light. We all want him to bring his offense every game, but maybe he just won’t. But what he does bring is a high FG% because he only shoots when he feels comfortable. In my books, if Perry can finally bring his defense (and rebounding) every game, we’ll take whatever offense he brings and be satisfied.
This is a pendulum where one side is discipline and the other side is assertiveness. Unfortunately, the points swing back and forth.
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@drgnslayr I loved Releford as a player. Perhaps my favorite on ball defender in Self’s tenure here. And the picture of what I prefer when it comes to recruiting players, and building a program.
On Perry, I’m skeptical. I just think guys with that type of passive personality can’t really be counted on as a go to type player. I think he can fit well as a second or third option. I have almost thought the opposite sometimes … whatever he brings us on D is a bonus, just freaking score the basketball. Score. Make up for your defensive inefficiency and put the ball in the hoop … a lot.
I sense with the chemistry on this team right now, it will work out fine.
