KU Buckets T-Shirts
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That’s what I thought back fill meant til you wrote that other nasty definition! I couldn’t even repeat it here. I started to, but erased it. As far as other sites, is it food, gardening, Royals, or pictures you don’t like?
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Yikes… guys…
Let’s keep laser-focused on these shirts and possible other products, like ball caps. I think many of us are thrilled with @DanR artwork.
I would be happy to build this into a mini shop on Cafepress if we finalize artwork with @DanR .
Cafepress has millions (and I do mean millions) of shopowners and their artwork online and they are the first ones hit with a cease and desist on anything that potentially violates infringement. It is safe for us to do this, and even at the miniscule chance someone at Kansas has an issue with it, the most that will happen is Cafepress will take our shop down. I’m not worried about it, and I would be the one dealing with it and Cafepress.
Mind you, Cafepress approves all artwork prior to sale and they red-flag potential violators. If they think there might be an issue, they will red-flag and require more information before letting it go up for sale.
Our situation is in no way like Joe College.
With Cafepress, we can have several different garments… short-sleeve Ts… long-sleeve Ts… sweatshirts… ballcaps… polos… mugs… even pet clothing!
I’d be happy to donate my time and I’d run the shop at cost, so there would be no profit involved.
I own a bunch of their products and the quality is good!
Anyways… that is my 2 cents.
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I will go along with both solutions and try to help or butt out if I’m in the way. I suggest those active in this effort read the email I just got back from KU…in a nutshell we can move forward if we cover our bases and watch out for a few things.
From KU:
Hi John,
Larry Keating forwarded your e-mail to me.
I’m not familiar with your group, but I’m sure we can find a middle ground on what you want to do.
Based on what you’ve described, here’s probably where I’d lean:
- I’d avoid using the names of Naismith & Wilt.
- It’ll be cleanest for us if the URL doesn’t have “KU” in it.
That being said, the honest truth is that the URL “kubuckets.com” may not ultimately be an issue, unless it becomes a site for commercial activity or the site makes an attempt to appear like it is somehow endorsed or sponsored by KU or Kansas Athletics. We have folks take our content and logos all the time and post it as their own, which confuses the public into thinking we are associated to it. At that point, as you might imagine, we have issues.
I’m certainly open to discussing this and the tee shirts further. I’m slightly concerned that you seeking “more exposure” for the web URL more visible by “advertising” on tees you would wear, but I may be over thinking it. ACME is a licensed vendor and they would send me the artwork for review.
Something like a peach basket and “Bucket Brigade” on a tee is not an issue though. I just have to be careful about promoting an outside web site with our logos.
Please feel free to contact me with any questions you may have; I’m happy to visit in person about this.
Thanks for reaching out to us.
Paul
– Paul Vander Tuig Trademark Licensing Director Kansas Athletics, 1412 Wagnon 1651 Naismith Drive Lawrence, KS 66045 (785) 864-4650 pvt@ku.edu
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This is what I got from the e-mail:
Acme is the cleanest/easiest way to go since it is a licensed vendor that would clear up the shirt content with the power that be prior to printing.
The “KU” in kubuckets.com is problematic. It might not be an issue now but it could be in the future if the site becomes bigger, and particularly if the site starts selling ads.
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Still not hearing @approxinfinity weighing in on this issue.
Nor @bskeet.
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Interesting read.
I just visited the government trademark site. You can go search out trademarks.
Search under “Naismith” found exactly 2 live marks:
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Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall Of Fame - the registrant is Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame, Inc. CORPORATION MASSACHUSETTS 1000 West Columbus Avenue Springfield MASSACHUSETTS 01105
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Naismith Awards - the registrant is ATLANTA TIP OFF CLUB, INC. CORPORATION GEORGIA 235 Andrew Young International Blvd. Atlanta GEORGIA 30303
The University of Kansas has absolutely NO CLAIM to anything regarding the term “Naismith” and they are putting themselves at risk of a legal issue if they claim to (if they claim ownership that infringes on other entities’ rights).
Here is a “Naismith” product for sale… and Homeland Security won’t be beating down this guy’s door anytime soon:
I don’t believe we have an issue with KU in our URL, especially if we don’t use this website for commercial purposes.
It would be a good idea if this site had a legal section where it clearly stated that this website has absolutely no affiliation with the University of Kansas.
This website has honorable intent. We aren’t pushing pornography or anything offensive, and we do not have the intent to defame the university in any way.
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@JayhawkRock78 said:
On top of the note to Acme & cafepress I sent an email to Keating who replied he sent it on to the proper contact.
As for designs by DanR and other suggestions I think we can go with all of them until we hear from the powers that be and then let users choose style and sizes.
RCJH
@approxinfinity said:
I’ve been extremely busy recently and so I’m sorry I haven’t gotten anything done on this. @JayhawkRock78 and you guys have my endorsement however you want to go with this. This will always be a community and I appreciate your efforts in making good things happen. Rock Chalk!
With all you’ve done with this site you should never apologize to anyone here for anything. RCJH
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Just above you will see a comment from approxfinity. I don’t remember if bskeet weighed in.
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I like the designs by @DanR
I think if someone gets the shirts created (or any other merchandise) and wants to provide a link to the site where it can be purchased, it’s easy and legal to post a link to that site. You can add a link to any post, any thread on the site at any time.
I haven’t talked to @approxinfinity about going much further with this. But a couple of things that could be done:
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to make it easy, we could create a ‘store’ or ‘marketplace’ section where links to shirts and more were available. The selected materials could be curated by members of the site… So I could post a list of things that I think are great (including legit KU attire, the official video of KU’s championship, etc.) all linked to a site where the item can be purchased.
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if KUbuckets was an affiliate of the site, a small proceed from the purchase would go to KUbuckets. Here’s how that works. I have an affiliate account with Amazon, skeetcom. There’s a syntax to the URL that points to the product and gives me credit: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B001675YTI/skeetcom
So I could list this item from Amazon: [Rock Chalk Championship: The Kansas Jayhawks’ 2008 Run To The NCAA National Championship](Rock Chalk Championship: The Kansas Jayhawks’ 2008 Run To The NCAA National Championship)
If anyone here clicks on that link, you’ll go to Amazon and see that it’s the DVD of KU’s championship. If you choose to buy it from that page, Amazon will credit me a couple of cents on the purchase. Eventually, when enough purchases are made, the pennies add up, hit a threshold that triggers Amazon to send me a check… I think the trigger is like $15. It’s not a lot of money, and it takes some volume of purchases to get there, but this would be a way to provide patronage to KUBuckets.
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One other comment… I’m pretty sure that using the domain name: kubuckets.com is perfectly legal. I suspect it gets dicy on the ‘no malice’ design where the visual emphasis is on KU (very big) and bucket.com is small and separated from the KU.
If the picture of Naismith is public domain, then the "bucket bridgade’ and final t-shirt design (below) seems safe to me.
P.S. I like this one best
P.P.S. I am not a lawyer
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So it seems the merchandise and design expertise lay with Dragon (cafepress) and DanR (acme) with both sites covered where liscensing is concerned. bskeet has already been down this road and has a way to move forward as he states above. I will bow out as I don’t want to add an extra step to the process but remain at the ready with a credit card.
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I love T Shirts. Especially KU T shirts. I have at least a dozen of them. I’d get another. What do they look like?
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@jaybate-1.0 Dude, I follow Ms Wilde on twitter. That idea is kind of funny. I hope you dont mind if I tweet that to her! LOL
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@JayhawkRock78 T-Shirts!
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I insist. In fact, tell the lovely Ms. Wilde that I envision her posing with a wink and a smile over her shoulder in the full body basketball net in one of those sideways poses that reveal everything and nothing. She is in full focus at center court on the Jayhawk standing in the midst of the blurs of ten fast breaking KU players. And take or share credit for the idea. Also, tell her I would have wanted Helmut Newton to do the photo, but like Mistah Kurtz, he dead. So: I will defer to her obviously superb artistic instincts. Also, I am one fan that is getting a huge kick out of where her career is going. Work with every great director she can, then become one and steal from all of them. Also, I saw Jason’s “We’re the Millers” and finally get what he is doing. I was a little slow on the uptake, but that happens when the years pile on. Rock Chalk!!!
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I like your vision… and I think we’ll create a more-popular vision than Kentucky’s celebrity photo shoot:
Source: Ashley Judd Bails on Kentucky Senate Race
I never realized she had mule teeth! Heard her next film is titled: “When The Crows Fly South (Along With Everything Else)!”
Ha… (No Malice, Just A Friday Afternoon Giggle)
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@drgnslayr And that’s why feminists are feminists.
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Don’t want to fly under false colors, guys. Don’t want to judge or criticize either. But I am pro feminist or whatever those that wish to advance women’s rights wish to be called. I don’t mind if some women don’t want to act in a way that seduces me. I figure they have their reasons. I understood it when African Americans decided to change their appearance in ways that seemed not designed to appeal to me. They had their reasons. If people treat each other squarely and fairly, I cut them all the slack they need on appearance for whatever they have been going through. Rock Chalk!
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@jaybate-1.0 I’m with skeet; I like the “Naismith invented it, Wilt perfected it, we talk about it” shirt, and I’m not too worried anyone will come after us.
I also appreciate your last post. She’s 46. That’s what pretty 46 year olds look like.
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@approxinfinity mmmmmmmm. Well… Uh… I don’t know - my eyes aren’t perfect any more, I guess. But - that particular picture ain’t pretty to me, no matter what age she is.
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@nuleafjhawk
alright. That’s what a bad picture of a pretty 46 year old looks like. What a crappy photographer!
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I’m pro human being, which means I support everyone equally, including feminists. I didn’t mean for my Friday antics to be taken as negative towards feminists, or Ashley Judd. I was just poking fun and open myself up to being poked equally or harder than I did to her. I think we’ve all become a bit too sensitive to everything these days. We’ll get to the point where we are all completely isolated from human contact because we don’t want to offend or be offended.
At my age, if I had the same cleavage Ashley has, it would have flown even further south! There… I’ve insulted myself even more. I’m sure it will attack someone’s sensibilities because I’ve insulted myself.
Okay… how far can I shove my foot in my mouth? Perhaps enough to where I create a black hole in the universe!
Dang it… this thread will be tied to me forever. I guess I’ll never become President of the USA, or even of my local 4-H club! My life is doomed now that I’ve insulted someone online. Please… no one bother. I’m spending the rest of my weekend throwing myself under a bus!
------u-n-d-e-r-----t-h-e-----b-u-s-----------------
Wow… it isn’t too bad down here. I recognize a lot of people down here. Politicians… Mel Gibson… “hey, man, can I have your autograph?!”
I’m serious here… No malice intended and hope I didn’t offend anyone or everyone!
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@drgnslayr I’m sorry - I think the whole world is too sensitive and politically correct. It’s a funny picture - it deserved a funny comment. Thank you. While I believe none of us on here would make fun of her (or hopefully anyone else) to her face, if we can’t have a little fun with a picture like that, we may as well shut down the internet.
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Nice picture of Ashley Judd … only way it would look better is if her shirt was off.
Not a lot of feminists you can say that about …
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I am not sure about that. Looks like her upper lady parts have taken a vacation several inches south of where they should Ideally be. Also, if she is true feminist we would an eyeful of “hippie pits”…definitely would not want to see that.
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"Here’s the list of verbiage that is trademarked:
The University of Kansas ® (Use "THE" when possible) KU ® Kansas Jayhawks ® Jayhawks ® The Crimson and the Blue™ Kansas ® Beak 'Em Hawks Rock Chalk Jayhawk® Allen Fieldhouse ® Kivisto Field ®"
Did Paul send you this list?
I’ve looked up all of these terms on the government trademark site. Some are trademarked, while others are not.
I got a kick out of the following expired trademark:
And no… it wasn’t a registration from John Riggins back in his college days. It was from a company called “Knuckle Up.” The University of Kansas does not make a claim for KU. In the goods area of computers an Israeli corporation owns “KU.” A Chicago corporation owns “KU” in the area of consulting services in the fields of retail meat marketing and merchandising. Yes… meat! They appear to be into meat carving knives.
Kansas is not trademarked. It really wouldn’t do much good to trademark something so general that you could never defend it. For example… “Kansas State University” would then be in violation for using the word “Kansas”. “Kansas Jayhawks” is not trademarked (and doesn’t need to be) because “Jayhawks” is trademarked.
There is no trademark under “beak’em Hawks” either. I kind of expected one to be there, but it isn’t. Most likely, it is impossible for anyone to claim ownership unless they can prove first use. “The crimson and the blue” is not trademarked. It is specific enough but no one has registered it,
“The University of Kansas” is not trademarked. Funny… because “The University of Western Kansas” is. SICILLUM UNIVERSITATIS KANSIENSIS is trademarked. That is the official seal of The University of Kansas.
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I wonder if they have made much money off “Kivisto Field” yet?
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I think I would rather have the “Knuckle Up” trademark.
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Along the line of Alcohol and Tobacco,
On the front, “Coming to the ball game without KUbuckets is like drinking at the bar without beer.”
On the back, "Come On You Kubucketeers
COYG
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@drgnslayr : I pulled that information from the University of Kansas Athletics - KU Trademark and Licensing - FAQ page. Here’s the actual page that I linked. Appendix B I just copied and pasted the verbiage part.
I found the trademark for Kansas here: Trademark Electronic Search - Kansas. I think using Kansas on items in the colors listed in Appendix B without consent from KU would get any seller in trouble. Same goes for KU. Here’s the trademark for Trademark Electronic Search - KU.
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That’s interesting. I knew you didn’t pull that out of a hat.
The word “Kansas” can not be protected as a word. A “Kansas” design can be protect. So that means as long as your design isn’t confused with the patent holder of the design, you are okay. I’m pretty sure almost every person living in Kansas, and definitely every business owner, is in violation of using the word “Kansas”… including, to make revenue. That’s like taking out a patent on “United States of America.”
However, having said that… if you make a design that uses the word “Kansas” and it can easily be confused with licensed Kansas merchandise, they can come after you.
Here is an example of something out there for sale that says “Kansas”. It is even in our colors. This piece approaches the line of legality because it can be confused, but it is still legal. if it said “Kansas Basketball” in our colors… I’m not sure that would fly, because it starts to resemble officially licensed university designs.
SOURCE: Cafepress
I don’t see how a shirt that says “kubuckets.com” on it can in any way be confused with officially licensed merchandise. It would be a tough argument to say that these shirts would dilute the shirt market for the university. If we have the right to own and use the domain name “www.kubuckets.com” then we have the right to promote the domain, especially for non-commercial use.
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@drgnslayr : I agree with you on the use of KUBuckets.com not being in violation as a webpage. Especially when you compare ours to other schools fan made webpages. If it were a problem UT and UK fans would be in trouble.
Now if it were me I’d steer clear of using the same fonts as KU does on shirts. Although I like the Naismith and Wilt shirt I think it could cause problems with confusion for lawyers/judges between us and KU. And whoever mentioned that we should have a legal page that states we are not in any way affiliated, endorsed, or whatever… with the University, KU Athletics Inc, Williams Fund, ect. has a good idea.
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I agree… everything we can do to differentiate our look from KU licensed gear is a move in the right direction… and we really don’t need to be similar because our buyers will buy it because of what we do on this website. I’m sure we can stay clear from the university and their legal hawks.
I totally understand their point of view, and as a generality they try to steer people far, far away from anything even remotely resembling a connection to the university, because when they start formalizing communications of allowance the fences continue to get closer and closer to what they are protecting… and it is more than revenue dollars. It is also their reputation.
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@jaybate-1.0 Have read this entire schpiel & have to agree with you. Unless financial support is needed to maintain this website, why take any chance of negative liability in the arena of copyright infringement? Even then just soliciting our members would be a much more sensible approach to maintain our sovereignty. If we really have thousands of legitimate users then getting enough funding to maintain a simple chat room should not be a problem. Personally I have to think that much more than 500 total users are bogus. To retain anonymity on the site of memberships. @approxinfinity & @bskeet could simply use a PO box & cover that expense with contributors proceeds via paper checks. They really do still work! JMO but there’s potentially way too much hassel involved in the process over T shirts. Now a nice polo I might wear, but still I cannot even begin to forsee the possible legal hazards involved with this venture & will only comment further by saying “If it ain’t broke, why fix it?” Again, JMHO
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Using the KU trademarked logos. including the Jayhawk, is not a problem , as long as you get a license, get your design approved and pay royalties. Using a licensed vendor transfers the onus to the vendor.
Now, where KU has a problem is when you use a logo or wording that would imply a link to or an endorsement by KU without licensing. The name kubuckets.com could be problematic since the university could argue that we are using the name to create a link to KU basketball, which we sorta, kinda do; after all, most of what we do here is talk KU basketball, right?
When we say that kubuckets.com would not benefit from the t-shits is partially correct. While it would not derive a financial benefit, the exposure it gets from people wearing a t-shirt with the site name on it does constitute a benefit. If the site starts selling merchandise of any kind that even remotely or indirectly links KU, then we will have their attorneys involved.
The Trademark Office has pretty much stated that, outside of the obvious infringements, they will grant most trademarks and let the Courts decide the validity. A trademark (or patent) is basically not worth the paper is written on until a Court officially upholds its validity. It is a shitty way of doing business but that is your Federal Government at work.
I have a second business where we have a number of generic term used in the description of the work we do. Say, it would be the equivalent of using the words “Backyard Barbeque” by grill manufacturers. Now, what happens if one company gets a trademark for these terms, which is the equivalent of say, Weber, getting a trademark for the terms"Backyard Barbeque" and start sending cease and desist letters to anyone that makes grills and uses those words without paying royalties to them. Of course, it has zero chance of standing in court, but in the process they are bullying less informed competitors. These are the type of problems caused by the Trademark Office by their lack of due diligence. The trademark/Copyright/Patent business is very simple and at the same time very complicated and littered with legal proceedings; It is obvious that it was created by lawyers which seem to be the main beneficiaries.
My take would be that if some members want, as a group and as part of the forum, have t-shirts/polo shirts with the kubuckets.com name on it, do it the right way thought a licensed vendor. Otherwise, just go individually to your t-shirt supplier at the local mall and have one or two custom t-shirts made with most anything you want and leave the web site/forum out of it.
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@JayHawkFanToo - When we say that kubuckets.com would not benefit from the t-*** is partially correct.* Darn auto-correct! I think going with a vendor and even having KU’s blessing is a wise move. Do you think doing something like this UT fan site is a good idea? Horn Sports Looking at this UT fan site they have this “HornSports.com is an independent source of news and information and is not affiliated with or endorsed by any school, team, or league” posted. I didn’t contact them to see if they were required by UT to do it or just did it to “CYA”. Also I noticed a lot of boards have Terms of Service and Rules pages. Good idea? Bad idea??
Here’s an example of one I found:
The providers (“we”, “us”, “our”.) of the service provided by this web site (“Service”.) are not responsible for any user-generated content and accounts (“Content”.). Content submitted express the views of their author only. You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws. All Content you submit or upload may be reviewed by staff members. All Content you submit or upload may be sent to third-party verification services (including, but not limited to, spam prevention services). Do not submit any Content that you consider to be private or confidential. We reserve the rights to remove or modify any Content submitted for any reason without explanation.
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I agree with everything you said… except I’m not sure about taking “kubuckets.com” through a licensed vendor. I’ve worked in product development, and sometimes we’ve looked at going through licensing and it was not only expensive, but there were minimums. Needless to say, we didn’t do it.
In our case, I would use Cafepress. They have legal people and everything they do has to be qualified, or it gets pulled. Even if you just want to order a Jayhawk tshirt for yourself… if you put up a Jayhawk logo on any of their products, they will pull it.
If we run into any issues from this using Cafepress, the most that will happen is the images will become disallowed from either a cease and desist, or if Cafepress legal department believes there may be an infringement so they require us to provide proof of ownership.
Our situation is nothing like Joe College… who printed many many designs that clearly infringing… he profited from the sale… and he disregarded their cease and desist orders. It really is hard to side with a business like that because he showed no willingness to comply with laws, even after repeated efforts were made (more on his behalf than the university’s) and he still refused to cooperate. That business would be alive and prospering today if he would have followed the rules, and he could have either bought into licensed goods, or he could have avoided infringing on their rights and still had a good business.
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Any thing you do to protect yourself and CYA is always a good idea, even when in practice it might not hold any legal weight; at least it shows a good faith effort to keep it above board.
I get lots of t-shits and polo shirts from suppliers and clients and I will wear them only around the house or give away the nicer ones. The only ones I or my employees wear while on business are the company polo or shirt with the embroidered company logo. So, a kubuckets.com t-shirt is not something I would personally be interested since it is not something I would wear where it would provide exposure to the site. This is just a personal practice of mine and in no way reflects the excellence of the site which I enjoy immensely or the opinion of other forum members. I understand that other members feel diffidently and hence I have provide information based on my own experience on the subject.
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The more I look at it… the more I want a “knuckle up” shirt, too!
Might be a good theme for this team.
